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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Another school shooting
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
President Obama has said "There have been too many of these incidents in recent years: We are going to have to come together and take meaningful action to stop more incidents like these, regardless of the politics."
Let's hope he's serious.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
Obama was having to work very hard not to cry on camera. I hope he cries hard off camera, and I hope he remembers the feeling when the NRA gets going.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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seasick
...over the edge
# 48
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Posted
Someone tweeted "Since Columbine: 31 U.S. School Shootings. School shootings in EVERY other country in the world combined since that time? 14."
I really really hope President Obama will have the will and determination to say that this must end and to introduce sensible gun control laws like the rest of the world has. The figures speak for themselves.
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We believe there is, and always was, in every Christian Church, ... an outward priesthood, ordained by Jesus Christ, and an outward sacrifice offered therein. - John Wesley
Posts: 5769 | From: A world of my own | Registered: May 2001
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lothiriel:
You really need to educate yourself. You seem to have some free time at the moment to defend your ill-informed views on gun availability,
I always appreciate it when someone is upfront about being a boorish, condescending jerk.
quote:
so maybe have a hunt 'round the ol' internet and you might find little gems of knowledge like this: look at chart 4 and then tell us whether gun control has an effect on gun violence. [/QB]
You can look around the internet and find what you want. Take this New York Times article, for example.
An excerpt:
According to the study, published last year in The Harvard Journal of Law and Public Policy, European nations with more guns had lower murder rates. As summarized in a brief filed by several criminologists and other scholars supporting the challenge to the Washington law, the seven nations with the most guns per capita had 1.2 murders annually for every 100,000 people. The rate in the nine nations with the fewest guns was 4.4.
I will make a note to myself to try to find some information about how much of our gun murders are related to the drug trade and/or happen at the finger of someone raised in a broken home.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
Only a fucking moron thinks they can keep guns out of the hands of someone who really wants one, you asshole.
States with tighter gun laws have fewer gun-related deaths, you asshole.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
Given the ongoing struggle to convince people that paying a little towards a medical safety net is better than having illness reduce you to beggary, he'll have his work cut out against a vested interest that makes the medical profiteers look positively philanthropic.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
I always appreciate it when someone is upfront about being a boorish, condescending jerk.
You must really appreciate yourself right now.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Lothiriel
Shipmate
# 15561
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
I will make a note to myself to try to find some information about how much of our gun murders are related to the drug trade and/or happen at the finger of someone raised in a broken home.
Look for the same info for other countries, too. Many of the murders in Toronto, for example, are related to gang violence, where, of course, broken homes and the drug trade are key.
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If you want to build a ship, don't drum up the men to gather wood, divide the work and give orders. Instead, teach them to yearn for the vast and endless sea. St-Exupery
my blog
Posts: 538 | From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Mar 2010
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ToujoursDan:
And only someone with their head up their ass can't realize that if the law makes it more difficult to get their hand on a gun in the first place when these people do snap it will be more difficult to use a gun to act out.
Since they can still get them "more difficult" really doesn't matter. It's like to put things a little bit higher so my cat can't get to them. He still does.
You asshole.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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Rosa Winkel
Saint Anger round my neck
# 11424
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
President Obama has said "There have been too many of these incidents in recent years: We are going to have to come together and take meaningful action to stop more incidents like these, regardless of the politics."
Let's hope he's serious.
I'm not that up on politics over the, but I gather that he's up for being more radical (in a good way) than in his first term. If he pisses the scum off he doesn't have worry about a third term.
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The Disability and Jesus "Locked out for Lent" project
Posts: 3271 | From: Wrocław | Registered: May 2006
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
Only a fucking moron thinks they can keep guns out of the hands of someone who really wants one, you asshole.
States with tighter gun laws have fewer gun-related deaths, you asshole.
I'll look at it close later on this weekend. I'm off to celebrate my wife's retirement after 30 years of teaching. Tell your folks hi and all of you have a pleasant weekend, you asshole.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
How much you must appreciate yourself, Mere Prick.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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ToujoursDan
Ship's prole
# 10578
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
quote:
Originally posted by ToujoursDan:
And only someone with their head up their ass can't realize that if the law makes it more difficult to get their hand on a gun in the first place when these people do snap it will be more difficult to use a gun to act out.
Since they can still get them "more difficult" really doesn't matter. It's like to put things a little bit higher so my cat can't get to them. He still does.
You asshole.
I'm advocating you put your "things" in a drawer where your cat doesn't see them and can't get to them without doing something that out of the ordinary, which would raise suspicion and would be likely lead to him/her not getting them at all.
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"Many people say I embarrass them with my humility" - Archbishop Peter Akinola
Facebook link: http://www.facebook.com/toujoursdan
Posts: 3734 | From: NYC | Registered: Oct 2005
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
If any of the rest of y'all are interested in things like evidence and studies and other stuff gun nuts and other conservatives generally despise, here's a good article.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Lothiriel
Shipmate
# 15561
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
You can look around the internet and find what you want. Take this New York Times article, for example.
An excerpt:
According to the study, published last year in The Harvard Journal of Law and Public Policy, European nations with more guns had lower murder rates. As summarized in a brief filed by several criminologists and other scholars supporting the challenge to the Washington law, the seven nations with the most guns per capita had 1.2 murders annually for every 100,000 people. The rate in the nine nations with the fewest guns was 4.4.
Nice cherry-picking here! Read the next paragraph:
quote:
Justice Breyer was skeptical about what these comparisons proved. “Which is the cause and which the effect?” he asked. “The proposition that strict gun laws cause crime is harder to accept than the proposition that strict gun laws in part grow out of the fact that a nation already has a higher crime rate.”
Read the whole article, and note the nuance and the need to distinguish between cause and correlation. Geez, I'm getting too Purgatorial here, hoping to knock some sense into your thick skull.
Counted your guns yet?
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If you want to build a ship, don't drum up the men to gather wood, divide the work and give orders. Instead, teach them to yearn for the vast and endless sea. St-Exupery
my blog
Posts: 538 | From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Mar 2010
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ToujoursDan
Ship's prole
# 10578
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
You can look around the internet and find what you want. Take this New York Times article, for example.
An excerpt:
According to the study, published last year in The Harvard Journal of Law and Public Policy, European nations with more guns had lower murder rates. As summarized in a brief filed by several criminologists and other scholars supporting the challenge to the Washington law, the seven nations with the most guns per capita had 1.2 murders annually for every 100,000 people. The rate in the nine nations with the fewest guns was 4.4.
Countries with higher rates of gun ownership had higher rates of gun-related suicides and homicides than those with fewer.
List of Countries by Firearm-related Death rates
Compare Switzerland with 6.4 gun related deaths per 100,000 with Sweden (1.22), the UK (0.22) or Japan (0.09).
(Reducing guns reduces shootings - quelle surprise!)
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"Many people say I embarrass them with my humility" - Archbishop Peter Akinola
Facebook link: http://www.facebook.com/toujoursdan
Posts: 3734 | From: NYC | Registered: Oct 2005
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
Given the response of many gun-owners to these types of incident is about as predictable as night following day , President Obama will need to display exceptional leadership if he's to make any progress on US gun control.
![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif)
[ 14. December 2012, 20:12: Message edited by: rolyn ]
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405
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Posted
Jesus.
20 little kids 10 years of age or younger.
Can we pass a law that forces NRA members to actually view the faces of the parents and kids exiting Sandy Hook Elementary before they *cough* object to restricting automatic and semi-automatic weapons to active police and active military personnel?*
*Which means, no, you don't get to hang on to your fucking weapon after you did your patriotic duty in Iraq and/or Afghanistan or even downtown Detroit or Chicago, no matter how many fucking medals you fucking won in our fucking wars and ganglands which are fucking up even more of our young male citizens.
And yes, I DO thank these folks for their service, but for fuck's sake, can we please return the favor by giving them the fucking services they need when they are restored to what passes for fucking normal society stateside?
Or is Sandy Hook now the new normal?
IT IS FUCKING TIME WE ENACTED SOME KIND OF FUCKING RATIONAL GUN CONTROL IN THIS SO-CALLED FUCKING COUNTRY.
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Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!
Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010
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Organ Builder
Shipmate
# 12478
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
It's a shame that it is against the law for trained teachers and other school personnel to be armed and that the children are left as sitting ducks.
Apparently that wouldn't have made much of a difference, since we are now hearing that the shooter was wearing body armor--just like the shooter in Aurora.
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How desperately difficult it is to be honest with oneself. It is much easier to be honest with other people.--E.F. Benson
Posts: 3337 | From: ...somewhere in between 40 and death... | Registered: Mar 2007
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
Timothy the Obscure: quote:
A few years ago the right-wingers on the SCOTUS decided that "well-regulated militia" is a synonym for "any nut who wants to pack heat."
A truer word was never said.
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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shamwari
Shipmate
# 15556
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Posted
Whats with the Americans and their guns?
Posts: 1914 | From: from the abyss of misunderstanding | Registered: Mar 2010
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Sleepwalker
Shipmate
# 15343
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
What we think is that non-deranged people can and should make sure deranged people don't obtain guns.
Impossible.
The UK has one of the strictest gun control laws in the world but we haven't achieved that nirvana. Only a couple of years ago a lone deranged individual went on a shooting spree in Cumbria, county of the beautiful Lake District National Park (for those not familiar with the UK) killing 12 outright. We can keep striving to contain the nutter, but stopping them all is simply never going to happen.
We haven't had a school slaughter for a long time though, thank God. The recent one in the States sounds horrific.
[ 14. December 2012, 21:27: Message edited by: Sleepwalker ]
Posts: 267 | From: somewhere other than here | Registered: Dec 2009
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
I realize this thread is in Hell, and that pulls for forthright opinion on anything expressed in any manner about this. It is too early to blame gun control by itself. There are many other things involved. Here's my 'I'm also full of shit' response to this.
The right to bear arms? A uniquely American obsession that is so culturally embedded perhaps it cannot be changed?
How is it that people are so alienated from their society that they think it is delusionally rational to get a weapon or several and kill random people.
What constitutes success and contentment in a society where good is defined as rich and celebrity is defined as a goal. How can people who are missing the dream feel positive and not angry?
What in the world are we allowing when all of the video games and other media promote the solving of problems and having fun are best done by shooting people. Link: List of first person shooter video games We have know about exposure to violence since the 1960s and how it translates directly into higher aggression in those who observe it. Thus, it can only be said that we actually want violent people and we want to encourage violence. The problem is us.
[ 14. December 2012, 21:28: Message edited by: no prophet ]
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Bullfrog.
Prophetic Amphibian
# 11014
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
quote:
Originally posted by ToujoursDan:
And only someone with their head up their ass can't realize that if the law makes it more difficult to get their hand on a gun in the first place when these people do snap it will be more difficult to use a gun to act out.
Since they can still get them "more difficult" really doesn't matter. It's like to put things a little bit higher so my cat can't get to them. He still does.
You asshole.
Marginal improvement is better than nothing. Really, it is. You should try it sometime.
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Some say that man is the root of all evil
Others say God's a drunkard for pain
Me, I believe that the Garden of Eden
Was burned to make way for a train. --Josh Ritter, Harrisburg
Posts: 7522 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
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Bullfrog.
Prophetic Amphibian
# 11014
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Organ Builder:
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
It's a shame that it is against the law for trained teachers and other school personnel to be armed and that the children are left as sitting ducks.
Apparently that wouldn't have made much of a difference, since we are now hearing that the shooter was wearing body armor--just like the shooter in Aurora.
And I'd figure that once a godforsaken weapon enters a classroom full of children, the cause is already lost. Teachers have really enough to do without having to worry about whether they remembered to turn the safety off on their colt.
And I can just imagine how this sort of idea would play out in a school infested by gangs.
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Some say that man is the root of all evil
Others say God's a drunkard for pain
Me, I believe that the Garden of Eden
Was burned to make way for a train. --Josh Ritter, Harrisburg
Posts: 7522 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
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Bullfrog.
Prophetic Amphibian
# 11014
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Posted
And FWIW, I'm mostly ticked off with the shooter and all shooters who have to fucking die before anyone has a chance to at the very fucking least ask them what the fuck is going on in their fucking heads.
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Some say that man is the root of all evil
Others say God's a drunkard for pain
Me, I believe that the Garden of Eden
Was burned to make way for a train. --Josh Ritter, Harrisburg
Posts: 7522 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
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Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by shamwari:
Whats with the Americans and their guns?
I'll tell what it is with us Americans and our fucking guns:
It's dicks.
It's "Let's shrink government (so it CAN'T protect our wimminfolks & our kids from them commies & niggers & libruls & jews & atheists) and let's deregulate everything in sight (so we CAN'T keep GloboCorp from fleecing us and poisoning our air, water, & soil) until we're FORCED to be our own police, posse, judge-and-jury, etc., and THEN WE'LL PULL OUT OUR BIG LONG GUNS AND SHOW 'EM WHO'S REALLY BOSS AROUND HERE, WE WILL.
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Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!
Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
Only a fucking moron thinks they can keep guns out of the hands of someone who really wants one, you asshole.
And yet, most countries do a much BETTER job than yours of exactly that. Not perfect, but definitely BETTER.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Matariki
Shipmate
# 14380
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Posted
This is unbelievable; surely to God something has to change this time? But we say that every time don't we? I noticed President Obama speaking out about the need for Americans to come together and address the issue; won't be long now before FOX and the NRA accuse him of threatening people's rights.
Posts: 298 | From: Just across the Shire from Hobbiton | Registered: Dec 2008
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
I have six or seven guns and will not be giving them up.
Lets just hope you remain in sound mind then.
What do you mean, 'remain'?...
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bullfrog.:
And FWIW, I'm mostly ticked off with the shooter and all shooters who have to fucking die before anyone has a chance to at the very fucking least ask them what the fuck is going on in their fucking heads.
"If only it were as easy to get mental health care as, oh, say, guns." --Andy Borowitz
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Erroneous Monk
Shipmate
# 10858
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Posted
I keep thinking about the parents with presents already bought and wrapped. I'm going to need a lot to drink to get to sleep tonight. ![[Waterworks]](graemlins/bawling.gif)
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And I shot a man in Tesco, just to watch him die.
Posts: 2950 | From: I cannot tell you, for you are not a friar | Registered: Jan 2006
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
quote:
Originally posted by ToujoursDan:
And only someone with their head up their ass can't realize that if the law makes it more difficult to get their hand on a gun in the first place when these people do snap it will be more difficult to use a gun to act out.
Since they can still get them "more difficult" really doesn't matter. It's like to put things a little bit higher so my cat can't get to them. He still does.
You asshole.
Really doesn't matter?
Wow.
So, the fact that it takes him LONGER means nothing?
Let's apply this logic elsewhere. Do you put locks on your doors? WHY? It's not going to stop someone who really WANTS to get in, will it? Why not just open up all the windows and leave the front door swinging open, then?
The extra effort does mean something, you fuckwit. It means a considerable number of people decide that wandering through your house stealing your possessions isn't worth the effort.
[ 14. December 2012, 21:54: Message edited by: orfeo ]
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sleepwalker:
We can keep striving to contain the nutter, but stopping them all is simply never going to happen.
So we can't stop them all. What if we could stop 1 in 3? Shouldn't we try?
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Tortuf
Ship's fisherman
# 3784
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Posted
shamwow, were I on the side of gun control in this thread, I would heartily wish you were off my team. Nice go at taking an impassioned all out fight and turning it into a pond war.
Just in case you are not a clueless twinky I would like to point out that many Americans (including myself) are heartbroken by this murder and would like to seek a workable solution to the problem.
Mere Nick, were I on the side of gun freedom on this thread I would heartily want you off my team. Many rational people tend to ignore even cogent points when the last phrase involves the f word.
The sad fact is the NRA takes extreme positions and heavily funds politicians willing to take their money in exchange for advocating extreme gun policies and laws. They seem to have wholesale purchased the Tennessee House for instance.
The Second Amendment says what it says (well armed militia) and that phrase has been interpreted by SCOTUS to mean everyone. There is no appeal from them, BTW.
Belonging to a gun group (long story - don't like most of them - it was a favor for a friend) I have seen some extreme positions endorsed that make me queasy. It appears that the extreme tail is wagging the dog of many pro gun groups.
I can only pray right now.
Posts: 6963 | From: The Venice of the South | Registered: Dec 2002
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
I've been called to Hell for teasing Americans. I apologise for having done so. Today I'm in no mood to joke or tease.
When I read Mere Nick's posts, though, I realise how far that wonderful country has to go to rid itself of the gung-ho gun obsession that makes incidents like this more likely.
Sure, it's the nutters and the crazies who do the shooting and the vast majority of US gun-owners are responsible and far from crazy.
But c'mon ... I read the other day that there are 37,000 gun-related homicides in the US every year. 37,000!
There are probably no more than 20 in any average year in the UK. We're not perfect, we've had our Dunblane massacre, Hungerford and Cumbria - where the killer used legal shot-guns rather than illegal handguns or assault weapons.
But at least we don't an NRA to contend with and jerks who think that the right to tote guns and pack heat is somehow an almost sacred duty.
Heck, I was even once accused of being a negligent husband and parent by a US Shipmate on one occasion because I told him that I don't own guns nor would ever wish to. The jerk didn't even realise that it is illegal to own handguns and assault weapons in the UK.
If that's lack of freedom, give me lack of freedom.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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roybart
Shipmate
# 17357
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Posted
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
quote:
It's a shame that it is against the law for trained teachers and other school personnel to be armed and that the children are left as sitting ducks.
This ghastly idea has been proposed seriously in the Tea Party-dominated legislature of the state in which I now reside. The idea has just been posted as a suggestion in the on-line edition of our local newspaper. You can expect to hear it more and more as a response to this latest school killing. (The point is to propose something simple and dramatic, something which ignores all possible consequences other than the one you want to occur.)
Just wait until the National Rifle Association starts weighing in. That organization usually remains publicly silent for a day or two after one of these tragedies. Allowing for a brief period of mourning? Who knows.
My point is: what passes for opinion and social values concerning guns have changed drastically in the U.S. over the past couple of decades. It's truly frightening to see the passion with which a very large number of people defend these ideas.
Just few of my of recent experiences of U.S. gun-obsession in my own area -- :
-- checking out what I imagined was a huge camping supply story and discovering that about 1/3 of its display space was devoted to a huge armory of hundreds of guns small and huge;
-- reading only today in our local paper a story about a suicide in a nearby gun range; apparently there has been a rise in that kind of thing all over the country; you rent your gun and shoot yourself; one "commenter" suggested that the man had finally earned his Marksmanship Medal. Ha ha.
-- taking a driver education course and having to listen a madman of an instructor lecturing at great length and with frightening passion about what we should do if the police stop us and we are "carrying" (i.e. carrying guns for which we have licenses). There is apparently an elaborate protocol that cover this eventuality. You don't want the harried cops to think you are a bad guy; they might end up shooting YOU, which is not your goal. The instructor's second favorite topic was his adventures as an armed Neighborhood Watch volunteer patrolling the streets of his gated residential community. These two topics took up over an hour of a 3-hour course.
To oppose this mentality and the laws and policies it genders is to be "politically correct." It's astonishing how that little cliche pops up defending all sorts of nasty, dangerous things in our current public discussiosn.
[ 14. December 2012, 22:03: Message edited by: roybart ]
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"The consolations of the imaginary are not imaginary consolations."
-- Roger Scruton
Posts: 547 | From: here | Registered: Sep 2012
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BessLane
Shipmate
# 15176
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Posted
What Tortuf said.
I'm chiming in as a gun owner, and hunter who would gladly destroy every weapon I own (and I DO know how many I have) if that would undo the tragedy of today's events. Sadly, it won't.
The knee-jerk reactions and pure vitriol on both sides of this issue do nothing towards any kind of reasonable, workable solution to the obvious problems we have in this country regarding gun violence.
all I can do is cry, pray and hug my nephews and niece extra tight...
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It's all on me and I won't tell it.
formerly BessHiggs
Posts: 1388 | From: Yorkville, TN | Registered: Sep 2009
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tortuf:
The Second Amendment says what it says (well armed militia)
No it doesn't. It says WELL-REGULATED militia.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
for those murdered children and their families
for all the surviving children and their families who will be terrified tonight.
Forgive me for being so All Saintish in Hell, but this is the first thread I've been on since hearing the news, and I'm struggling to understand it.
Moving slowly Hellwards, and getting Purgatorial. Often when gun control is debated on these boards, I get the feeling that some Americans distrust national government so much that they feel they need weapons to defend themselves against Washington. Is there a significant movement in any state to break away and become independent?
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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Evangeline
Shipmate
# 7002
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Posted
In Australia we had our first shooting massacre in 1996. This led to the conservative government implementing a gun buy back policy which halved the number of households who owned guns and reduced gun stocks by about 1/5.
This article concludes that
quote:
We find that the buyback led to a drop in the firearm suicide rates of almost 80%, with no significant effect on non- firearm death rates. The effect on firearm homicides is of similar magnitude but is less precise. The results are robust to a variety of specification checks and to instru- menting the state-level buyback rate
So did we stop ALL idiots and murderers from possessing guns, of course not but gun control is possible and will save lives. You have to try, surely?
Posts: 2871 | From: "A capsule of modernity afloat in a wild sea" | Registered: May 2004
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
I'm a little late here, but I have to let you all know that we don't want a Pond War. In fact we are not going to have one.
quote:
Originally posted by shamwari:
Whats with the Americans and their guns?
Shamwari: surely it hasn't escaped your notice that many Americans want possession of firearms to be more tightly controlled? Don't lump all "Americans" in together.
Sioni Sais
Hellhost
nb: x-posted with Evangeline. Nothing personal.
[ 14. December 2012, 22:23: Message edited by: Sioni Sais ]
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Tortuf
Ship's fisherman
# 3784
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Tortuf:
The Second Amendment says what it says (well armed militia)
No it doesn't. It says WELL-REGULATED militia.
True.
My bad.
Posts: 6963 | From: The Venice of the South | Registered: Dec 2002
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
BessHiggs, I can sympathise, but you can do more than that. You can pray and hug your neices and nephews and nearest and dearest - but you can also add your voice to the voices of sanity.
It suits the right-wing US gun lobby to portray anyone seeking to tighten gun laws as politically correct and out-of-touch liberals. They have a vested interest in doing so.
My guess would be that they would be more open to persuasion and to listen to reason if there were voices in their own midst - or coming from what people in Europe and in the north-eastern States and Pacific seaboard might regard as rural or more 'red-neck' states.
The problem, it appears to me, is that the whole thing has been polarised along political lines and fault-lines that may not have adequately healed from Civil War days.
Australia has reduced gun crime, the UK has done so. Surely it can't be beyond the wit of man for an advanced and civilised country like the US to do the same?
The problem is, the genie is already out of the bottle. Any federal attempt to put the lid back on is going to be regarded with the utmost suspicion in some quarters - heck, I've even seen Shippies here state that they need their guns just in case the Federal Gummint comes after them ...
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
That appears very, very strange from a UK perspective - and we have our own regional issues and calls for greater devolution (or independence in Scotland's case) at the same time as some people are squawking about the EU and its interference and so on ...
I suspect it is difficult - if not well-nigh impossible - for those of us who don't live in the US to understand the complexities. I can tease you guys at times - I'm not doing so now - but I recognise that the last thing you need is some finger-wagging and patronising long-distance comment from places which don't have the same kind of background or 'relationship' with firearms as is evidently the case in the US - or parts of it.
The problem is, anything that Obama attempts will be construed as Federal interference - even if he were able to come up with a sensible solution that the rest of us would think was a good idea.
It's a Catch-22.
But you've got to keep trying. Otherwise we'll be having this same debate in several weeks, months or years time.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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ToujoursDan
Ship's prole
# 10578
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Posted
Evidently the shooter, Adam Lanza, used his mother's legally purchased guns. He walked into her classroom, opened fire on her first and then killed the kids.
[ 14. December 2012, 22:50: Message edited by: ToujoursDan ]
Posts: 3734 | From: NYC | Registered: Oct 2005
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Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
Fuck you, Mere Nick -- devil incarnate as you are named. Fuck you and fuck America.
Easy, there. I'm American, and I'm 180 degrees around the circle from Shmear Dick.
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Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!
Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010
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roybart
Shipmate
# 17357
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Posted
quote:
The knee-jerk reactions and pure vitriol on both sides of this issue do nothing towards any kind of reasonable, workable solution to the obvious problems we have in this country regarding gun violence.
all I can do is cry, pray and hug my nephews and niece extra tight...
Sorry, but this kind of response has begun to make me almost as angry as a press-release from my fellow citizens who run the NRA.
One often hears such from the self-proclaimed sensible gun-owners. After every tragedy, numerous communications saying pretty much the same thing turn up in the media.
Most of them, like the writer, make a big point of distancing themselves from "knee-jerk reactions and pure vitriol" on both sides. They are careful to position themselves on what they imply is the middle ground, along with all the other good folks who understand their guns, respect their potential for harm, lock them up, always have licenses, and who use them primarily for hunting, often as part of a generations-long family tradition.
When a tragedy occurs they tut-tut and pray for the victims, urging (as here) "reasonable, workable" solutions. Somehow, however, they never manage to turn this pious hope into something -- a campaign, a movement, a political pressure group -- that actually gets anything done. In other words, once these people -- and there are many of them -- perform their ritual, they fade away until the next time.
P.S. I'd love to be given evidence that suggests that I am wrong in this.
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"The consolations of the imaginary are not imaginary consolations."
-- Roger Scruton
Posts: 547 | From: here | Registered: Sep 2012
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
America is the leader in so much, but must stop being the leader in this. Opinions such as Mere Nick's as posted on this thread are worthless and dangerous. And more than that, part of the problem. They are evil. I recall the changes required in your country to deal with terrible racism and integration. You need to do the same thing to deal with gun control, and the NRA which is KKK of guns. We (the rest of the world) need you to do it.
quote:
Gun Deaths a Familiar American Experience
A study in the Journal of Trauma and Acute Care Surgery found that the gun murder rate in the U.S. is almost 20 times higher than the next 22 richest and most populous nations combined.
quote:
Gun control is a parenting issue
More than a dozen children went to elementary school this morning and were dead before lunch.
White House spokesman Jay Carney says today is not the day to talk about gun control.
I disagree. That's all we should talk about today.
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Josephine
Orthodox Belle
# 3899
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Posted
I have no problem with guns. I have no problem with shooting at clay pigeons, or real rabbits or deer. I have no problem with farmers and ranchers who need a gun to keep predators away from their flocks and herds.
But there is absolutely no reason for a civilian to have a large capacity magazine. There is no reason for a civilian to have an automatic or semi-automatic gun. They should be banned yesterday, if not sooner.
I am undecided about whether the reasons for a civilian to have handguns are good enough to justify allowing civilians to have handguns. If we are going to allow them, they should be regulated at least as stringently as cars and driving are regulated.
The status quo is utterly unacceptable. It is time to talk about this. It is time to change it.
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I've written a book! Catherine's Pascha: A celebration of Easter in the Orthodox Church. It's a lovely book for children. Take a look!
Posts: 10273 | From: Pacific Northwest, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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