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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Postponing Sex
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DouglasTheOtter
Ship's aquatic mammal
# 17681
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Posted
I've noticed that men tend to have the strongest opinion about this when they enter middle or old age and sex is least likely to happen.
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Posts: 171 | From: Twickenham | Registered: May 2013
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Conscience is nowt.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Ooooooooooh, I reckon I can. I'm sure it'll break down at the edges, go fuzzy at the margins, that there will be exceptions that prove the rule, but not in this context.
Kids playing with fire get burnt.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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DouglasTheOtter
Ship's aquatic mammal
# 17681
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Posted
Again, there will people with very strong consciences.
It's patronising to suggest otherwise.
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Posts: 171 | From: Twickenham | Registered: May 2013
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
Perhaps it would be better to advise couples to stick to anything_thing_you_can_do_in_front_of_your_mother_without_feeling_embarrassed ...
(Assuming you are aiming for traditional morality.)
All couples? Even the married ones?
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by DouglasTheOtter:
I've noticed that men tend to have the strongest opinion about this when they enter middle or old age and sex is least likely to happen.
Or perhaps when they have sexually mature but young children themselves?
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
That's me mate. Like many unexamined terms, they cease to have any meaning when one starts to look. They actually detract by the more is less principle.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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DouglasTheOtter
Ship's aquatic mammal
# 17681
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Posted
Or perhaps when they have sexually mature but young children themselves?
No, I think it really is when sex has aged and is something abstract.
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Posts: 171 | From: Twickenham | Registered: May 2013
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Really? That's pretty universal. And I can think of one exception to prove that rule straight away.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
I've never been so in all my. One does not ask that of a Lady.
[ 01. July 2013, 20:13: Message edited by: Martin PC not & Ship's Biohazard ]
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Love wins
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DouglasTheOtter
Ship's aquatic mammal
# 17681
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Posted
You're probably what... fifty? Sixty? In which case, your sexual peak is long, long behind you and you can probably scarcely remember how vital and urgent those feelings were. And that means that you are, with respect, the last person who should be preaching to young people on this subject.
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Posts: 171 | From: Twickenham | Registered: May 2013
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by DouglasTheOtter:
No, I think it really is when sex has aged and is something abstract.
I'm not a man, but don't many men become more conservative on these matters once they have a daughter?
I suppose their conservatism would kick in regarding their daughter's sexual activity, but not necessarily their own - until, as you say, their sexual urges had decreased.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Croesus, I was trying to craft something for the unmarried couple with a traditional sensibility. Though I admit that latter definition could depend quite a lot on one's mother.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Aye. And there's nowt wrong wi' my memory. Well there is actually. A lot. Intrusive thinking. Due to sexual self (and other) harm amongst other things. And I'm glad that the intensity isn't so constant. Of desire, one way or another.
I was completely celibate from 23 to 29. I'm perfectly qualified in every way all round. Just like you are regardless of your mere youth.
My advice is, take a multitude of counsel.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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DouglasTheOtter
Ship's aquatic mammal
# 17681
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Posted
You're not qualified because the intensity of those feelings is years ago.
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Posts: 171 | From: Twickenham | Registered: May 2013
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by DouglasTheOtter:
You're probably what... fifty? Sixty? In which case, your sexual peak is long, long behind you and you can probably scarcely remember how vital and urgent those feelings were. And that means that you are, with respect, the last person who should be preaching to young people on this subject.
It's a bit unhelpful to say that a someone can only teach or give advice on a topic if they're the same age as their listeners. Aren't we supposed to benefit from the wisdom and experience that comes from talking to people older than ourselves? Isn't it helpful for young men to know that 'this too shall pass'?
I say 'young men' because young women's 'vital and urgent' feelings seem to be a little more complex, and may not always marry up with how young men feel. If nothing else, young men should be made aware that their 'vital and urgent' feelings don't have priority if the object of their desire isn't ready for sex, has expectations of love that they can't deliver, or has a different system of sexual morality from theirs. This isn't to say that young women never enjoy emotionally uninvolved sexual encounters. But eager young men sometimes seem to forget that in many cases 'it's different for girls'.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
God bless you DTO. Come back in 40 years time and tell me.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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DouglasTheOtter
Ship's aquatic mammal
# 17681
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Posted
Well, no, as you'll be dead and I'll be senile.
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Posts: 171 | From: Twickenham | Registered: May 2013
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Tuesday.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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barrea
Shipmate
# 3211
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by DouglasTheOtter:
Well, no, as you'll be dead and I'll be senile.
Well, I'm 86 and I wouldn't call myself senile, so how old will you be in 40 years time?
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Therefore having been justified by faith,we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Romans 5:1
Posts: 1050 | From: england | Registered: Aug 2002
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barrea
Shipmate
# 3211
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
Barrea - firstly, not all Christians believe in the inerrancy of Scripture. The Scriptural argument alone is not convincing for me personally.
Also, could you please quote what Old Testament verses you are thinking of that condemn fornication (which is defined as sexual intercourse between two people who are not married to each other - certainly not including anal sex within marriage!)? There is quite a lot of fornication within the OT!
For the New Testament, there are two words used that deal with sexual immorality - moicheia (adultery) and porneia (commonly translated as fornication or more commonly just sexual immorality). 'Sexual immorality' is obviously quite a vague term and it's not possible to define it strictly as fornication - the Septuagint uses it in reference to male temple prostitution, for instance.
I have no issue with people who interpret the Bible as suggesting that pre-marital sex is sinful, my problem is with saying that it is clear-cut and obvious as to what the Bible says on the subject. As with much in the Bible, it isn't. The Bible really says very little on sex at all.
Jade as you do not believe in the in inerrancy of Scripture and do not take it as your final authority there is not much point in referring to the Bible in relation to ones attitude to sex before marriage.
It is much more a case of making up your own mind and letting your conscience decide what you feel is right.
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Therefore having been justified by faith,we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Romans 5:1
Posts: 1050 | From: england | Registered: Aug 2002
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DouglasTheOtter
Ship's aquatic mammal
# 17681
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Posted
I'll be eighty. Should I live that long. And family suggests that the chances of reaching that age with all my marbles is not high.
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Posts: 171 | From: Twickenham | Registered: May 2013
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
And DTO, please let me know how you get on at 30, 40, 50. I could tell you stuff that would curdle your milk mate. Right up until this weekend. You haven't the faintest idea sonny. Not the faintest.
I'm 60 next year mate. And just because I can't shag everything on two legs three times a day (and mate, I've had to beat them off with a stick) doesn't have the slightest bit to do with what goes on behind my eyes, open or wide shut.
I could do an appalling parody of the apostle Paul. But I won't. You really, really know nothing boy.
And yes, I should be all growd up and not amusedly outraged and empathise with you in your paucity of experience in mishandling your raging hormones. The biggest sex organ is the brain mate. Mine's as priapic as ever and I'm certainly tired of it and looking forward to the transcendence of it.
I'm still shaking my head at what I can't tell you as this is not an appropriate forum for it. Me and everybody else here over 12. Stuff I've not told my shrinks.
You think my friend Jimmy Saville and Stuart Hall and the great American sexual sadist serial killers were kids? Were in their 20s? 30s? They'd hardly got in to their stride at 40.
As I said, take a multitude of counsel. Try reading.
And I am sorry for your pain. Especially all you've got coming. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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DouglasTheOtter
Ship's aquatic mammal
# 17681
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Posted
The people you mention were prolific sex offenders. Hardly typical of people's experience generally.
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Posts: 171 | From: Twickenham | Registered: May 2013
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by barrea:
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
Barrea - firstly, not all Christians believe in the inerrancy of Scripture. The Scriptural argument alone is not convincing for me personally.
Also, could you please quote what Old Testament verses you are thinking of that condemn fornication (which is defined as sexual intercourse between two people who are not married to each other - certainly not including anal sex within marriage!)? There is quite a lot of fornication within the OT!
For the New Testament, there are two words used that deal with sexual immorality - moicheia (adultery) and porneia (commonly translated as fornication or more commonly just sexual immorality). 'Sexual immorality' is obviously quite a vague term and it's not possible to define it strictly as fornication - the Septuagint uses it in reference to male temple prostitution, for instance.
I have no issue with people who interpret the Bible as suggesting that pre-marital sex is sinful, my problem is with saying that it is clear-cut and obvious as to what the Bible says on the subject. As with much in the Bible, it isn't. The Bible really says very little on sex at all.
Jade as you do not believe in the in inerrancy of Scripture and do not take it as your final authority there is not much point in referring to the Bible in relation to ones attitude to sex before marriage.
It is much more a case of making up your own mind and letting your conscience decide what you feel is right.
Um, not being an inerrantist and believing in Scripture together with Tradition and Reason does NOT mean that I don't think the Bible is important, or that I just make things up myself. If I did, why would I quote the Koine Greek?
Why does me not being an inerrantist make you unable to provide reasons for your opinions?
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Fool on the hill
Shipmate
# 9428
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by DouglasTheOtter:
You're probably what... fifty? Sixty? In which case, your sexual peak is long, long behind you and you can probably scarcely remember how vital and urgent those feelings were. And that means that you are, with respect, the last person who should be preaching to young people on this subject.
Reaching 50 within a few years. You are WRONG. This goes on the top ten list of stuff on the ship that has insulted me. ![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
Although, Im also chuckling at the ignorance
Posts: 792 | Registered: May 2005
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Fool on the hill:
quote:
Originally posted by DouglasTheOtter:
You're probably what... fifty? Sixty? In which case, your sexual peak is long, long behind you and you can probably scarcely remember how vital and urgent those feelings were. And that means that you are, with respect, the last person who should be preaching to young people on this subject.
Reaching 50 within a few years. You are WRONG. This goes on the top ten list of stuff on the ship that has insulted me.
Although, Im also chuckling at the ignorance
I just smile indulgently and let them think we have nothing better to do on a Saturday night than fall asleep on the couch watching Matlock reruns...
![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
Yes, I'm nearly 70, and I had to chuckle at that. Vital and urgent it remains, sir/madam.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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anoesis
Shipmate
# 14189
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Posted
Well, I'm 36, and it feels a fair bit less vital and urgent than it did to me. If DTO is, as he says, 40 - perhaps there are some similarities. Two possibilities spring immediately to mind: One - there is a dip in these things in mid-life, when any number of other people/things/obligations have first to sixteenth claim on your time and attention; Two - the 'I'm sixty mate', 'I'm seventy and chuckling', representatives are remembering the supposed sexual peak to which DTO refers from a different vantage point, shall we say...
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The history of humanity give one little hope that strength left to its own devices won't be abused. Indeed, it gives one little ground to think that strength would continue to exist if it were not abused. -- Dafyd --
Posts: 993 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2008
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anoesis
Shipmate
# 14189
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
quote:
Originally posted by Fool on the hill:
quote:
Originally posted by DouglasTheOtter:
You're probably what... fifty? Sixty? In which case, your sexual peak is long, long behind you and you can probably scarcely remember how vital and urgent those feelings were. And that means that you are, with respect, the last person who should be preaching to young people on this subject.
Reaching 50 within a few years. You are WRONG. This goes on the top ten list of stuff on the ship that has insulted me.
Although, Im also chuckling at the ignorance
I just smile indulgently and let them think we have nothing better to do on a Saturday night than fall asleep on the couch watching Matlock reruns...
I'm fine with that, thanks. And FWIW, I really do have - perhaps not nothing better to do - but nothing I would like more to do, of an evening than to sit slack-jawed in front of the goggle-box just passively taking stuff in, or even more passively letting it wash over me.
I am quite comforted to hear that there is something vital/urgent/interesting/worthwhile to do in later life, as against all the messages out there which glorify youth. Maybe I will have a chance to re-make myself once my octopi are grown up and disentangled from me.
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The history of humanity give one little hope that strength left to its own devices won't be abused. Indeed, it gives one little ground to think that strength would continue to exist if it were not abused. -- Dafyd --
Posts: 993 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2008
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DouglasTheOtter
Ship's aquatic mammal
# 17681
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Posted
The point is, ladies and gents, that sex will never again be as pressing or as urgent to you as it was when you were younger. To suggest that someone who is, say, sixty or seventy is as aware of pressing sexual urges as they were when they were a teenager or a twentysomething flies in the face of what we know about human biology and physiology. It just isn't as pressing and the idea of people who are, by any reasonable metric, old, turning around and telling young people what they should and shouldn't do from a position of 50 years' hindsight is as laughable as the Catholic clergy teaching about sex. It isn't tenable.
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Posts: 171 | From: Twickenham | Registered: May 2013
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
Douglas
Well, in my work (as a therapist), I found that young people were interested to hear my views, not about the actual mechanics of sex, but about the nature of relationship and intimacy, and how it can go wrong, and how to recover from that, and how to ensure it goes right.
I felt as I got older, I didn't lose their respect, but in fact, gained it, as I suppose they had a sense that here was someone who had been through the wars, had survived, and indeed flourished (although I didn't talk about my own life at all: unprofessional).
I used to joke that being 70 would enable me to raise my fees!
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Fool on the hill
Shipmate
# 9428
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by DouglasTheOtter:
The point is, ladies and gents, that sex will never again be as pressing or as urgent to you as it was when you were younger. To suggest that someone who is, say, sixty or seventy is as aware of pressing sexual urges as they were when they were a teenager or a twentysomething flies in the face of what we know about human biology and physiology. It just isn't as pressing and the idea of people who are, by any reasonable metric, old, turning around and telling young people what they should and shouldn't do from a position of 50 years' hindsight is as laughable as the Catholic clergy teaching about sex. It isn't tenable.
I don't know about men, but for women, their sexual peak is in their 40's.
I'm not really into telling people what to do at all. But I feel perfectly capable of talking with young people about sex.
Posts: 792 | Registered: May 2005
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DouglasTheOtter
Ship's aquatic mammal
# 17681
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Posted
Men are past it by the time they're in their twenties. It's one of the cruel jokes that evolution has played on us. Men are most fertile when they're at their most immature and women are at their sexual peak when they're at their least fertile.
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Welease Woderwick
Sister Incubus Nightmare
# 10424
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Posted
quetzalcoatl's vital and urgent seems about right to me - I used to be a sex professional inasmuch as I was in the AIDS Industry for some years and the tales folks told me in the course of my work led me to believe that I am not alone in retaining my delight in the subject.
I am 64.
I freely admit that I no longer perform at quite the same rate as I did - but I do my best ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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Posts: 48139 | From: 1st on the right, straight on 'til morning | Registered: Sep 2005
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by DouglasTheOtter:
Men are past it by the time they're in their twenties.
Speak for yourself!
quote:
It's one of the cruel jokes that evolution has played on us. Men are most fertile when they're at their most immature and women are at their sexual peak when they're at their least fertile.
Anyway your biology is pretty obviously wrong. Most men stay fertile into their 50s and 60s, and at least a large minority much longer than that. Most women don't. So its the exact opposite of what you are suiggesting.
Socially as well. The "cruel joke" if there is one (its an odd phrase to use) is that middle-aged and older men are likely to be far more into wanting to have sex with women than any women are likely to be into wanting to have sex with them. But that is hardly news - people have been writing poems and plays and novels and folksongs about it for centuries.
[ 02. July 2013, 14:30: Message edited by: ken ]
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
The other joke is supposed to be that when the old geezer finally calls it a day for John Thomas, his old lady rolls over and mutters, thank God for that, peace at last. Doubt it.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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DouglasTheOtter
Ship's aquatic mammal
# 17681
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Posted
The whole thing is a giant, celestial joke.
Men are fertile but stupid in their twenties. When they get older, their fertility decreases and nobody capable of getting pregnant would want to have sex with them. And for women, they're hugely and abundantly fertile in their teens, which tails off steeply to their forties, when they get more interested in sex.
And they say God lacks a sense of humour.
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Posts: 171 | From: Twickenham | Registered: May 2013
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
What a load of crap. The burgeoning world population proves that human fertility isn't something we need to worry about, and your generalizations about men and women are stupid. The last guy I slept with was hugely enthusiastic and skilled, and he's 50. Not being fertile and wanting sex more than I did when I was young isn't a cruel joke, it's fantastic.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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DouglasTheOtter
Ship's aquatic mammal
# 17681
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Posted
Yes, they are generalisations, and like all generalisations, there will be outliers and people who don't fit them. They do contain truth, though, I think.
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Posts: 171 | From: Twickenham | Registered: May 2013
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
On what exactly do you base your opinion that they contain truth?
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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DouglasTheOtter
Ship's aquatic mammal
# 17681
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Posted
Like everyone else, on the people I see around me.
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Posts: 171 | From: Twickenham | Registered: May 2013
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by DouglasTheOtter:
Like everyone else, on the people I see around me.
You see people having (or not having) sex?
Perhaps older folks aren't any less interested in sex, they're just more discrete about it.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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DouglasTheOtter
Ship's aquatic mammal
# 17681
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Posted
I think, in all honesty, that sex causes a lot of unhappiness and that it's an aspect of our 'design,' such as it is, that leaves a bit to be desired.
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Posts: 171 | From: Twickenham | Registered: May 2013
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
In light of recent events in Hell, I am biting my tongue!
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by DouglasTheOtter:
I think, in all honesty, that sex causes a lot of unhappiness and that it's an aspect of our 'design,' such as it is, that leaves a bit to be desired.
I am sorry to hear that. But it does sound a bit to me like you are projecting from your own experience to the rest of the population.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Douglas
Do you have a sex life?
I only ask because reading your posts one could make the assumption that the whole sex thing is something beyond your ken.
Sexual desire may decrease with age for some people, but I think you're more likely to find that people will say that desire changes, both with increasing age and with increasing skill in lovemaking.
As for men losing fertility with age - when does that start? Look at all the "elderly" fathers out there: Charlie Chaplin, David Jason, Paul McCartney, Rod Stewart, etc, etc, etc.
In any case, its not fertility that makes some young men horny as hell, its hormones - and they work for everyone.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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