|
Source: (consider it)
|
Thread: There is NOTHING right about this
|
Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
I do, BTW, accept that there are many Americans who oppose the gun culture there. Good on you. Now get it changed.
OK I have penciled that in for next Tuesday, it all should be sorted out then.
Personally, when I have talked about rape culture, I don't think I have said I expected any one guy to sort it out himself. I have suggested guys who speak up have more impact than they think. Why are you shitting all over those who do speak up about gun control?
--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
|
Posted
One can debate whether the knife laws in the UK are too draconian or not. But I object to the post which said 'Whatever became of the Britain that survived the Blitz?'
This is just a fucking stupid comment, as if Brits are all pussies now, because we got fed up with kids getting killed by knives. We should be tougher than that, eh, what's a few dead kids to worry about?
--------------------
I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
deano
princess
# 12063
|
Posted
I carry a Swiss Army Knife with me. The largest blade, which I very rarely use, is about 3"".
It's a useful bit of kit.
Anything can be used as a weapon. I could kill someone with the 1.5" blade. I won't though.
It isn't the knife or the gun. It is the person wielding it.
If the US wants to stop sacrificing its own people then they need to remove the weapons from the dimwits. A gun instructor who gives an Uzi to a 9 year old is clearly a dimwit and has no business being near a gun. Evolution in action.
--------------------
"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot
Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Erroneous Monk
Shipmate
# 10858
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
quote:
Originally posted by Erroneous Monk:
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Why does a 9 year old girl need to know how to handle a sub-machine gun?
Because she's planning to visit Rotherham?
Which is the gun-lobby argument, that the more guns, the safer everyone is. In other words, UTTER CRAP.
You are right. I was trying to get all my rage into one line. It didn't work. Sorry. ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif)
--------------------
And I shot a man in Tesco, just to watch him die.
Posts: 2950 | From: I cannot tell you, for you are not a friar | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
jbohn
Shipmate
# 8753
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Carry IN PUBLIC. Read your own links. When's the last time you needed to open mail or slice sausages outside your own home? Seriously? You wander the streets just itching for the chance to cut through a stray envelope?
Fairly often, actually - if I take a sausage and a some bread along for lunch on a trip to the park or zoo, for instance. See lilBuddha's response for more info - beat me to the punch.
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by jbohn:
The subject of the bit you quote was somebody saving the day by being a gun-toting hero. What you gave evidence of is people shooting up places of worship. Do you have a case of someone stopping a shooting spree at a church with another gun? If not, then, no, this is not "not unheard of."
From the second link I posted (the Colorado church shooting):
"Later that afternoon, he attacked the New Life Church in Colorado Springs, Colorado, with a number of firearms, killing two more people and injuring three before being shot and wounded by a member of the church's congregation; he then committed suicide.[7]" (Emphasis mine)
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
One can debate whether the knife laws in the UK are too draconian or not. But I object to the post which said 'Whatever became of the Britain that survived the Blitz?'
This is just a fucking stupid comment, as if Brits are all pussies now, because we got fed up with kids getting killed by knives. We should be tougher than that, eh, what's a few dead kids to worry about?
It's a bit of hyperbole, but so is the bullshit it was responding to. I apologize if you found it offensive - the offense was directed primarily at the arsehole being responded to.
--------------------
We are punished by our sins, not for them.
--Elbert Hubbard
Posts: 989 | From: East of Eden, west of St. Paul | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
|
Posted
jbohn
No problems, mate, it's a difficult issue, and I don't think anybody knows what the solution is.
--------------------
I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
I do, BTW, accept that there are many Americans who oppose the gun culture there. Good on you. Now get it changed.
OK I have penciled that in for next Tuesday, it all should be sorted out then.
Personally, when I have talked about rape culture, I don't think I have said I expected any one guy to sort it out himself. I have suggested guys who speak up have more impact than they think. Why are you shitting all over those who do speak up about gun control?
That came over not quite as I intended. I was actually sincere - I meant it as an encouragement to speak up, get your voice heard. I should have STFU as usual.
It did strike me that if this girl had been hurt playing on a trampoline, the parents would undoubtedly have sued the manufacturer of the trampoline for not warning them that it was bouncy. I really cannot understand how a country that seems intent on suing the shit out of everything can still support children using live machine guns. People who need to be told not to use a toaster oven as headgear shouldn't be let anywhere near a water pistol.
And yes, I know this is not all Americans. I know from the ship that there are plenty of sensible people there.
But you do seem to do batshit crazy especially well.
--------------------
Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
|
Posted
And one thing Brits are good at is getting on their high horses and lecturing others, especially their colonies, about the Way It's Done in Proper Civilized Places.
See what I did there? I just took an unfair generalization and applied it to a whole group of people. Why don't you give this whole "apology" thing another shot, and see if you can do it without insulting anyone this time around?
--------------------
“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger:
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
OK I have penciled that in for next Tuesday, it all should be sorted out then.
What's wrong with Monday?
Monday is Labor Day -- major holiday, signals the end of summer. We'll be busy eating barbecue.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
jbohn
Shipmate
# 8753
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
jbohn
No problems, mate, it's a difficult issue, and I don't think anybody knows what the solution is.
Too true, that.
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
quote:
Originally posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger:
What's wrong with Monday?
Monday is Labor Day -- major holiday, signals the end of summer. We'll be busy eating barbecue.
Indeed. No work getting done then. This weekend, most folks hereabouts are headed "up north to the cabin". (To be read as "anywhere north of the Metro, to somewhere near/on a lake, ranging from a one-room shack to a mansion".)
--------------------
We are punished by our sins, not for them.
--Elbert Hubbard
Posts: 989 | From: East of Eden, west of St. Paul | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
JoannaP
Shipmate
# 4493
|
Posted
I apologise if this post comes across as insulting or patronising; that is not my intention but this is one of those things that, while I sort of understand it intellectually, makes no sense at all at a deeper level.
Opinion poll after opinion poll shows that the majority of the American people, even the majority of NRA members, believe that the current regulations on gun ownership are too lax. But the elected representatives of these people will not pass any laws tightening gun control because they believe that they will not be re-elected if they do.
To me, that makes as much sense as thinking that a 9 year old girl with an Uzi could be part of a well-regulated militia.
--------------------
"Freedom for the pike is death for the minnow." R. H. Tawney (quoted by Isaiah Berlin)
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin
Posts: 1877 | From: England | Registered: May 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
|
Posted
quote:
originally posted by Schrodinger's Cat:
It did strike me that if this girl had been hurt playing on a trampoline, the parents would undoubtedly have sued the manufacturer of the trampoline for not warning them that it was bouncy. I really cannot understand how a country that seems intent on suing the shit out of everything can still support children using live machine guns.
I never cease to surprised by how much Brits and Canadians think they know about the United States as compared to what they actually know about the United States. The same people calling for more gun control have no problem with suing gun manufacturers for every injury caused by a firearm. On the other hand, the people who want no gun control whatsoever support tort reform. Not true for every single American (what with there being 320 million of us and all) but it serves as a good rule of thumb.
--------------------
Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
quote:
originally posted by Schrodinger's Cat:
It did strike me that if this girl had been hurt playing on a trampoline, the parents would undoubtedly have sued the manufacturer of the trampoline for not warning them that it was bouncy. I really cannot understand how a country that seems intent on suing the shit out of everything can still support children using live machine guns.
I never cease to surprised by how much Brits and Canadians think they know about the United States as compared to what they actually know about the United States. The same people calling for more gun control have no problem with suing gun manufacturers for every injury caused by a firearm. On the other hand, the people who want no gun control whatsoever support tort reform. Not true for every single American (what with there being 320 million of us and all) but it serves as a good rule of thumb.
hmmm... I'm American, and I'd say you're missing a step here. The people who support tort reform (i.e. limits on consumer products liability) are all for that until they have a problem. It's much like small government-- ya want small government/low taxes, but don't ya dare cut my medicare/ social security/ crop subsidy/ cherished "entitlement". Similarly, tort reform is the desired end goal but should not impede your ability to sue for $millions of pain & suffering when you're too drunk to not burn yourself drinking McD's coffee.
--------------------
"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by JoannaP:
I apologise if this post comes across as insulting or patronising; that is not my intention but this is one of those things that, while I sort of understand it intellectually, makes no sense at all at a deeper level.
Opinion poll after opinion poll shows that the majority of the American people, even the majority of NRA members, believe that the current regulations on gun ownership are too lax. But the elected representatives of these people will not pass any laws tightening gun control because they believe that they will not be re-elected if they do.
To me, that makes as much sense as thinking that a 9 year old girl with an Uzi could be part of a well-regulated militia.
That's actually very simple to explain...
Gun laws very from state to state and even city to city. States with a large concentration of gun control supporters already have strict gun control laws. The issue is strengthening federal gun laws. For that, you need a majority vote in the House and likely a 2/3 vote in Senate because gun rights supporters will filibuster legislation. You also need a Democratic president. Now, let's say you are a US representative from a state where the majority of the people favor stronger gun laws but represent a district that opposes stricter gun control. You will vote to support your district. Suppose you are a Democratic senator from a state like Arkansas or West Virginia that opposes gun control. You aren't going to vote for more gun control out of fear that the people would vote you out at the next election.
Furthermore, opinion polls don't represent how serious voters feel about particular issues. Quite simply, many gun enthusiasts are close to being single issue voters. Gun control supporters are rarely single issue voters.
Lastly, some who support more gun control in theory but don't support actual bills that get drafted. Like jbohn said above, laws have unintended consequences. Many who would support more gun control don't trust the government to write laws that won't go further than they want to go.
Make no mistake about it. A majority of Americans do not want laws anything like the ones in the UK or Australia. All the NRA has to do is convince people that gun control supporters want to gradually place more and more restrictions on firearms until eventually the federal government decides to start confiscating people's guns. So, the NRA will oppose every single piece of gun control legislation proposed. Michael Bloomberg becoming the public face of gun control makes the NRA's job even easier.
--------------------
Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
St. Gwladys
Shipmate
# 14504
|
Posted
Lord P was given the chance to shoot with an air pistol when he was old enough to hold it steady. His grandfather had some antique pistols, including a Colt, and my stepmother sold them after Dad died. Before they went, both Lord P and his cousin were given the chance to hold them, which gave us a good opportunity to talk about "gun ettiquette" - including not pointing it at anyone. Lord P wasn't even allowed to point toy, or even pretend, guns at anyone. It may seem harsh, but as we were speaking about this over tea tonight, he accepts that he now has a healthy respect for guns, and enjoys target shooting.
Learning to respect dangerous things doesn't stop you using them - he pointed out that when he checks over his chain saw, he makes sure that the cats are locked in, for instance.
Potentially dangerous things are not toys. A Uzi certainly isn't.
--------------------
"I say - are you a matelot?"
"Careful what you say sir, we're on board ship here"
From "New York Girls", Steeleye Span, Commoners Crown (Voiced by Peter Sellers)
Posts: 3333 | From: Rhymney Valley, South Wales | Registered: Jan 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
And one thing Brits are good at is getting on their high horses and lecturing others, especially their colonies, about the Way It's Done in Proper Civilized Places.
See what I did there? I just took an unfair generalization and applied it to a whole group of people. Why don't you give this whole "apology" thing another shot, and see if you can do it without insulting anyone this time around?
That was one of the more insulting apologies I've ever seen. It pains me to say thus, but SC has gone from someone I rather liked to someone I don't care to know at all. But what the hell, that's just the opinion of a knuckle dragging unhinged American. And a moustache growing femminazi to boot. No loss right?
But now I have new freedom- I get to call all Evos hate spewing flat earthers until they get Pat Robertson and the Phelps clan to shut up, despite what they might personally do, believe, or say. And I can chide any Ozzie about their participation in genocide until full reparations are made to the aborigines. ( I'm sorry, you seem like a nice person, but you do do racism pretty well, don't you?) Oh, and all French people hate Algerians, right?
--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
|
Posted
Beeswax Altar, you're a better man than me.
--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
JoannaP
Shipmate
# 4493
|
Posted
Beeswax Altar,
Many thanks. That is the best and clearest explanation I have ever seen. I had forgotten to take the strength of feeling into account (or had underestimated just how strong it is).
In that case, there does not seem to be an easy solution to getting federal legislation through does there (for those who view that as desirable)? Turning gun control supporters into single issue voters is hardly a good thing...
Introducing controls on donations on election campaigns and political advertising, such as we have in the UK (which superficially looks like a good thing from here), is as likely as adopting our gun control regime.
--------------------
"Freedom for the pike is death for the minnow." R. H. Tawney (quoted by Isaiah Berlin)
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin
Posts: 1877 | From: England | Registered: May 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by JoannaP:
In that case, there does not seem to be an easy solution to getting federal legislation through does there (for those who view that as desirable)? .
Yes, exactly, bingo, you got it.
--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
saysay
Ship's Praying Mantis
# 6645
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Soror Magna:
quote:
Originally posted by jbohn:
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
However it is difficult to draft a precise law which would not have unintended consequences.
Which is precisely the point - some in the US are concerned about the "unintended consequences" of further gun control...
And what exactly would those unintended consequences? And would they be any worse than the ACTUAL consequences of lax gun control?
I really hope that sooner or later, Americans decide that it's worth taking a chance on the black helicopters, because they are actually less scary than a 9-year-old girl killing an Irag & Afghanistan veteran.
.
(Sorry hosts.)
Not. Going. To. Happen.
Not on a federal level, anyway. Bill Brady's dead.
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
hmmm... I'm American, and I'd say you're missing a step here. The people who support tort reform (i.e. limits on consumer products liability) are all for that until they have a problem. It's much like small government-- ya want small government/low taxes, but don't ya dare cut my medicare/ social security/ crop subsidy/ cherished "entitlement". Similarly, tort reform is the desired end goal but should not impede your ability to sue for $millions of pain & suffering when you're too drunk to not burn yourself drinking McD's coffee.
I call bullshit on large numbers of people like this existing.
And one difference between Beezwax and me is that, much as I support the right of small localities to set their own rules, I approved of the Heller decision.
Probably because I once lived in DC and there was a man who kept coming to my (glass) door to masturbate and I kept calling the cops and the cops kept not coming (some thought they were being sent to the wrong address; some said they were being given orders to reduce crime by not taking reports of crimes they didn't think they'd be able to solve). When all the military and cop types in my life told me to buy a gun because being legally screwed was better than being dead, I left.
--------------------
"It's been a long day without you, my friend
I'll tell you all about it when I see you again"
"'Oh sweet baby purple Jesus' - that's a direct quote from a 9 year old - shoutout to purple Jesus."
Posts: 2943 | From: The Wire | Registered: May 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
art dunce
Shipmate
# 9258
|
Posted
Gun facts by demographic . A demographic tidal wave is about to break on these shores that will change things. Look at the numbers on "protection" . It's whites freaking about about being washed to the margins. America is a very diverse country and people should be careful conflating the opinions of (for now the majority) whites with the total sentiments of this country.
--------------------
Ego is not your amigo.
Posts: 1283 | From: in the studio | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by saysay:
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
hmmm... I'm American, and I'd say you're missing a step here. The people who support tort reform (i.e. limits on consumer products liability) are all for that until they have a problem. It's much like small government-- ya want small government/low taxes, but don't ya dare cut my medicare/ social security/ crop subsidy/ cherished "entitlement". Similarly, tort reform is the desired end goal but should not impede your ability to sue for $millions of pain & suffering when you're too drunk to not burn yourself drinking McD's coffee.
I call bullshit on large numbers of people like this existing.
Seriously? I can't think of an efficient way to go about finding a measure so I guess we're at a standstill. But you appear to be viewing a much more optimistic slice of my fellow Americans than what I'm seeing from my pov.
--------------------
"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
saysay
Ship's Praying Mantis
# 6645
|
Posted
(Xpost: this is directed at Art Dunce)
What an odd post. Especially considering the usual anti-gun position is that people who own or want to own guns legally are in the minority but have too much political power. Do you think there are no black or Hispanic gun owners?
And which happens first:
We get meaningful police reform, or enough (white) people start being so afraid of the police that they start purchasing guns to protect themselves (from other white people) as it's clear no one else is going to?
[ 29. August 2014, 23:38: Message edited by: saysay ]
--------------------
"It's been a long day without you, my friend
I'll tell you all about it when I see you again"
"'Oh sweet baby purple Jesus' - that's a direct quote from a 9 year old - shoutout to purple Jesus."
Posts: 2943 | From: The Wire | Registered: May 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
art dunce
Shipmate
# 9258
|
Posted
Fuck off Say say you are not worth responding to.
--------------------
Ego is not your amigo.
Posts: 1283 | From: in the studio | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
|
Posted
I'm a Brit and I carry a Swiss Army knife camping, hiking or when we're doing outside stuff with Girl Guides. I don't carry it into inner city London working with teenagers. The difference between hiking and camping is that a Swiss Army knife is a nice handy bit of kit that provides a lot of useful tools, even when it's only got a knife on it, in a form that fits neatly into a pocket and means you don't need to carry scissors and all the other specialist tools you might need in those situations.
And I grew up with guns too. Didn't really get into shooting, but I have done a whole lot of beating. I was taught to use a rifle prone before I was 16. We ate an fair amount of rabbit, pheasant, deer* and other shot food growing up. Just because most Brits don't see or handle guns doesn't mean that there isn't a gun culture here too.
* Legally - usually going out to shoot the deer we'd seen that had been badly poached and had a injured haunch, at the farmer's request, often as the spare person to drive it or help carry home.
--------------------
Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
art dunce
Shipmate
# 9258
|
Posted
Sorry, ss that was too harsh. This country is changing thank God and I'll be patient. No reason to be rude , though,
--------------------
Ego is not your amigo.
Posts: 1283 | From: in the studio | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
|
Posted
Slain gun instructor's family shows sympathy
quote:
"We just want to make sure they understand that we know it was a tragic accident and that it's something that we're all going to have to live with," Vacca's 19-year-old daughter, Ashley, told NBC's "Today" show.
I'd have preferred she say something like "We are so sorry that you encountered such completely piss-poor safety procedures at the range, and we are incredibly sorry that our relative was complicit in that."
[ 30. August 2014, 01:06: Message edited by: Autenrieth Road ]
--------------------
Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
|
Posted
quote:
originally posted by JoannaP:
Introducing controls on donations on election campaigns and political advertising, such as we have in the UK (which superficially looks like a good thing from here), is as likely as adopting our gun control regime.
Wouldn't matter on guns.
Milwaukee Sheriff's Race
Bloomberg spent $150,000 in the Democratic primary to unseat the Milwaukee County sheriff and the guy still won. Milwaukee County hasn't voted Republican in a presidential election since 1956.
--------------------
Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
I'm a Brit and I carry a Swiss Army knife....
The Brit that cut Foley's head off carries a bigger knife than you.
You should consider a sword, the way things are going in your country.
--------------------
"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by jbohn:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by jbohn:
The subject of the bit you quote was somebody saving the day by being a gun-toting hero. What you gave evidence of is people shooting up places of worship. Do you have a case of someone stopping a shooting spree at a church with another gun? If not, then, no, this is not "not unheard of."
From the second link I posted (the Colorado church shooting):
"Later that afternoon, he attacked the New Life Church in Colorado Springs, Colorado, with a number of firearms, killing two more people and injuring three before being shot and wounded by a member of the church's congregation; he then committed suicide.[7]" (Emphasis mine)
So then, not even a plurality of the links you posted actually said what you claimed? And you're positing this as disproving my point. Really.
quote:
Originally posted by JoannaP:
I apologise if this post comes across as insulting or patronising; that is not my intention but this is one of those things that, while I sort of understand it intellectually, makes no sense at all at a deeper level.
Opinion poll after opinion poll shows that the majority of the American people, even the majority of NRA members, believe that the current regulations on gun ownership are too lax. But the elected representatives of these people will not pass any laws tightening gun control because they believe that they will not be re-elected if they do.
To me, that makes as much sense as thinking that a 9 year old girl with an Uzi could be part of a well-regulated militia.
May I introduce you to the concept of gerrymandering?
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
Make no mistake about it. A majority of Americans do not want laws anything like the ones in the UK or Australia. All the NRA has to do is convince people that gun control supporters want to gradually place more and more restrictions on firearms until eventually the federal government decides to start confiscating people's guns. So, the NRA will oppose every single piece of gun control legislation proposed. Michael Bloomberg becoming the public face of gun control makes the NRA's job even easier.
Because their primary constituency are fucking lunatics. I doubt very much that the majority of non-gun-nut Americans buy into the slippery-slope-to-gunless-Armageddon bullshit.
--------------------
This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
saysay
Ship's Praying Mantis
# 6645
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Because their primary constituency are fucking lunatics. I doubt very much that the majority of non-gun-nut Americans buy into the slippery-slope-to-gunless-Armageddon bullshit.
I'm not an NRA member or current gun owner (though I did very much appreciate that my family and neighbors were the last time someone shot a cop and then tried to hide out on the mountain where I was staying).
Guns are the abortion of the right. You know how when anyone mentions any further restrictions on abortion portions of the left go batshit and oppose even reasonable restrictions on the basis that any restriction is a step towards overturning Roe v Wade? The NRA tend to get that way about guns.
The problem, as I see it, is that those people really do exist, and both groups use the existence of a minority to justify their stance. There are some people who want to see abortion banned. New Jersey's gun laws and the way they enforce them seem crazy to people who grew up hunting. I really have had (multiple) arguments with people who say that since the second amendment prohibits us from banning guns, we should simply ban the manufacture and sale of ammunition. I really have encountered people who have said that we should simply criminalize all gun ownership except by state officials.
Maryland managed to enact more sane gun legislation recently. It can be done. But at this point I don't think it's worth wasting time trying to do it on a federal level.
--------------------
"It's been a long day without you, my friend
I'll tell you all about it when I see you again"
"'Oh sweet baby purple Jesus' - that's a direct quote from a 9 year old - shoutout to purple Jesus."
Posts: 2943 | From: The Wire | Registered: May 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
I carry a Swiss Army Knife with me. The largest blade, which I very rarely use, is about 3"".
It's a useful bit of kit.
Anything can be used as a weapon. I could kill someone with the 1.5" blade. I won't though.
It isn't the knife or the gun. It is the person wielding it.
That argument is as stupid on one side of the pond as the other. Anything which makes injury or death easier will cause more injury or death. The law attempts to strike a balance.
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
If the US wants to stop sacrificing its own people then they need to remove the weapons from the dimwits. A gun instructor who gives an Uzi to a 9 year old is clearly a dimwit and has no business being near a gun. Evolution in action.
And what of a 9 year old child who will likely suffer because of this? Who could likely have been the victim herself? And all the children who die through fault of their parents?
You laugh, likely because your wit is too dim to provide light for a night-vision camera.
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
I'm a Brit and I carry a Swiss Army knife....
The Brit that cut Foley's head off carries a bigger knife than you.
You should consider a sword, the way things are going in your country.
Oh Fuck the Hell off. Using an unrelated tragedy in an attempt to score a point? Join deano and perhaps the your dim bulbs together might provide enough light to attract a moth. There will then at least be some sort of activity in your empty skulls.
[ 30. August 2014, 02:54: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]
--------------------
I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by saysay:
Guns are the abortion of the right. You know how when anyone mentions any further restrictions on abortion portions of the left go batshit and oppose even reasonable restrictions on the basis that any restriction is a step towards overturning Roe v Wade? The NRA tend to get that way about guns.
You list all the restrictions the several states have passed in the last 8 years on firearms, and I'll list all the restrictions they've placed on abortion, then we'll argue about your false equivalency.
--------------------
This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
Nation Debates Extremely Complex Issue of Children Firing Military Weapons
Bingo.
When Beeswax Altar says "people don't want laws like those in Australia", I'm wondering which laws he means. The ones that say children can fire guns at age 11 or 12? The ones that say they can do this under supervision and with small pistols instead of machine guns? Or the ones that say you have a legal duty to lock your weapons away and ensure that your kids and grandkids can't get to them?
--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by art dunce:
Sorry, ss that was too harsh. This country is changing thank God and I'll be patient. No reason to be rude , though,
(Just getting back from the Purg thread) No, your instincts were helping you out there.
Boy, I just don't get folk who preen and congratulate themselves over condemning entire demographics in one stroke. Like doing that is remotely intelligent or enlightened. Please God she keeps the hell out of California.
--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
|
Posted
(Sorry, to clarify, I was getting back from the "Republican Party" thread in Purg, not the gun one.)
--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
You should consider a sword, the way things are going in your country.
..... or we should consider arming everyone from the age of 9 upwards with a semi-auto weapon . Still not much use against suicide bombers though.
That's always the problem when humanity buys into violence, you never really know exactly where it'll end . Apart from the absolute certainty that an unspecified number of folk will indeed suffer death or injury because of it.
--------------------
Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
|
Posted
UK laws on gun ownership means (in theory) to own any gun or ammunition the person requires a firearms or shotgun licence, application of which requires a referee and contact details of the GP (doctor) of the person applying. Part of the checking by the police includes a requirement that any guns are kept in a properly locked gun cabinet and a discussion about where the owner is going to use the gun.
The UK does have a problem with illegally owned firearms. I have worked in schools where a student brought a gun in and I'm sure that the current student I work with means it when he says he could. Guns are exceptional, knives are not.
And irishlord - I was trying to tell my fellow countrymen they were ignoring some of their own country's traditions. That offensive comment makes me wish I hadn't.
--------------------
Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
|
Posted
I should point out that I have had a discussion with Kelly Alves, clarifying what I meant. We have come to a conclusion best summarised in the words of my best friend*
"Cat - you are a fucking idiot"
Which I think sums the situation up completely.
*Imaginary, of course. I don't have any real friends. Going for the sympathy vote now.
--------------------
Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
quote:
originally posted by Schrodinger's Cat:
It did strike me that if this girl had been hurt playing on a trampoline, the parents would undoubtedly have sued the manufacturer of the trampoline for not warning them that it was bouncy. I really cannot understand how a country that seems intent on suing the shit out of everything can still support children using live machine guns.
I never cease to surprised by how much Brits and Canadians think they know about the United States as compared to what they actually know about the United States. The same people calling for more gun control have no problem with suing gun manufacturers for every injury caused by a firearm. On the other hand, the people who want no gun control whatsoever support tort reform. Not true for every single American (what with there being 320 million of us and all) but it serves as a good rule of thumb.
hmmm... I'm American, and I'd say you're missing a step here. The people who support tort reform (i.e. limits on consumer products liability) are all for that until they have a problem. It's much like small government-- ya want small government/low taxes, but don't ya dare cut my medicare/ social security/ crop subsidy/ cherished "entitlement". Similarly, tort reform is the desired end goal but should not impede your ability to sue for $millions of pain & suffering when you're too drunk to not burn yourself drinking McD's coffee.
Re the McDonalds coffee suing, the coffee in question was
superheated and the woman got 3rd-degree burns on her crotch, requiring skin grafts (I don't think she was drunk). I'm a Brit and I would have sued the hell out of McDonalds for that, and I hate it when it's used as a 'stupid Americans lol' argument.
--------------------
Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
deano
princess
# 12063
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
And one thing Brits are good at is getting on their high horses and lecturing others, especially their colonies, about the Way It's Done in Proper Civilized Places.
See what I did there? I just took an unfair generalization and applied it to a whole group of people. Why don't you give this whole "apology" thing another shot, and see if you can do it without insulting anyone this time around?
Well, it's not a generalisation that is inaccurate.
The problem is you don't fucking listen!
It's because we in Britain CARE. Like any parent does when their children leave home, we still care. You may have left "home" (The Empire) but we still care and will continue to offer good advice. Pity you kids don't listen to your elders and betters. Oh well, you'll figure it out I'm sure but we've seen it all before.
--------------------
"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot
Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
QLib
Bad Example
# 43
|
Posted
On behalf of all Brits, I would like to apologise. What can I say? I think he thinks he's being funny.
--------------------
Tradition is the handing down of the flame, not the worship of the ashes Gustav Mahler.
Posts: 8913 | From: Page 28 | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
deano
princess
# 12063
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by QLib:
On behalf of all Brits, I would like to apologise. What can I say? I think he thinks he's being funny.
ALL Brits? Since when do you have a mandate to speak for ALL British people? You don't speak for ALL of anything.
--------------------
"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot
Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
I should point out that I have had a discussion with Kelly Alves, clarifying what I meant. We have come to a conclusion best summarised in the words of my best friend*
"Cat - you are a fucking idiot"
Which I think sums the situation up completely.
*Imaginary, of course. I don't have any real friends. Going for the sympathy vote now.
And I admitted my childish " don't like you!" tongue-sticking act was just that. I apologize as well.- and I like you fine.
--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
|
Posted
Oh, and thank you, Jade. I was too weary to take that one on.
--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
quote:
Originally posted by QLib:
On behalf of all Brits, I would like to apologise. What can I say? I think he thinks he's being funny.
ALL Brits? Since when do you have a mandate to speak for ALL British people? You don't speak for ALL of anything.
Pot, meet Mr Kettle.
--------------------
"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
Printer-friendly view
