|
Source: (consider it)
|
Thread: Random Liturgical Questions (answers on a postcard, please)
|
Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
|
Posted
Just what the title says. This is the place to ask questions that probably don't need a thread all their own.
If you have a vocabularly question, the Ecclesiantics Dictionary might be a helpful reference. And if your interest runs to "tat" -- all those worship-related items that are worn, swung, or hung -- check out our speciality thread "The Tatler."
Enjoy!
Mamacita, Eccles Host
[updated link]
[ 30. September 2012, 00:53: Message edited by: Mamacita ]
--------------------
Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
3rdFooter
Shipmate
# 9751
|
Posted
Is there a standard, common or interesting form of words for blessing incense when charging a thurible or censor?
3F
--------------------
3F - Shunter in the sidings of God's Kingdom
Posts: 602 | From: outskirts of Babylon | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
|
Posted
IIRC, since Vatican II, incense is put on without any formula, although the priest makes the sign of the cross.
--------------------
Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Fradgan
Apprentice
# 16455
|
Posted
Try this:
http://www.missionstclare.com/
--------------------
"From the moment I picked your book up until I laid it down, I was convulsed with laughter. Someday I intend reading it." - Groucho Marx
Posts: 37 | From: San Gabriel | Registered: Jun 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Trisagion
Shipmate
# 5235
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
IIRC, since Vatican II, incense is put on without any formula, although the priest makes the sign of the cross.
One of the more egregious examples of the desacralisation of the liturgy, IMNSHO. I have noticed that the 'gravitational pull' talked of in Summorum Pontificum appears to have had an effect here, with the Pope appearing to be saying the blessing of incense from the EF at the Mass of the Epiphany yesterday. I'm glad because it's such a lovely prayer:
quote:
Ab illo + benedicaris in cuius honore cremaberis? Amen.
May you be blessed by ahim in whose honour you shall be burned.
[ 07. January 2012, 16:56: Message edited by: Trisagion ]
--------------------
ceterum autem censeo tabula delenda esse
Posts: 3923 | Registered: Nov 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by 3rdFooter:
Is there a standard, common or interesting form of words for blessing incense when charging a thurible or censor?
3F
I find the Byzantine one to be quite beautiful. Tracing the Cross over the incense, the priest says:
quote:
Incense do we offer unto Thee, O Christ, as an aroma of spiritual fragrance. Accepting it upon thy most heavenly altar, do Thou send down upon us the grace of thine All-Holy Spirit.
[ 07. January 2012, 17:10: Message edited by: Michael Astley ]
--------------------
If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
3rdFooter
Shipmate
# 9751
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rosa Winkel:
Could anyone recommend an online source for the Revised Common Lectionary, with all services (MP, EP and Mass)? I can only find versions with the Mass readings.
Oremus is pretty good for this. They have the lectionary in a format you can load into most calendar applications.
3F
--------------------
3F - Shunter in the sidings of God's Kingdom
Posts: 602 | From: outskirts of Babylon | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
3rdFooter
Shipmate
# 9751
|
Posted
Thank-you fellow smokers. I agree saying nothing seems a bit lacking.
I like both Greek and Latin blessings.
3F
--------------------
3F - Shunter in the sidings of God's Kingdom
Posts: 602 | From: outskirts of Babylon | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rosa Winkel:
Could anyone recommend an online source for the Revised Common Lectionary, with all services (MP, EP and Mass)? I can only find versions with the Mass readings.
Or this.
--------------------
Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Trisagion:
quote:
Ab illo + benedicaris in cuius honore cremaberis? Amen.
May you be blessed by ahim in whose honour you shall be burned.
Isn't that the blessing of heretics?
--------------------
Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Stranger in a strange land
Shipmate
# 11922
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
quote:
Originally posted by Trisagion:
quote:
Ab illo + benedicaris in cuius honore cremaberis? Amen.
May you be blessed by ahim in whose honour you shall be burned.
Isn't that the blessing of heretics?
No it's the blessing of deacons when the celebrant gets confused at Gospel time.
Posts: 608 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Ceremoniar
Shipmate
# 13596
|
Posted
Or, being interpreted, "Be thou ble+ ssed in whose honour thou shalt be burned."
The blessing at the offertory in the EF is different:
Per intercessionem beati Michaelis Archangeli, stantis a dextris altaris incensi, et omnium electorum suorum, incensum istud dignetur Dominus bene+dicere, et in odorem suavitatis accipere. Per Christum Dominum nostrum. Amen.
Through the intercession of blessed Michael the Archangel, who standeth at the right hand of the altar of incense, and of all his elect, may the Lord vouchsafe to bl+ess this incense, and to receive it for a sweet smelling savour. Through Christ our Lord. Amen.
Posts: 1240 | From: U.S. | Registered: Apr 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
leo
Shipmate
# 1458
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
quote:
Originally posted by Trisagion:
quote:
Ab illo + benedicaris in cuius honore cremaberis? Amen.
May you be blessed by ahim in whose honour you shall be burned.
Isn't that the blessing of heretics?
No - it was frequently used by a Mirfield monk, who was warden of my student hall of residence, as a grace before meals when we had a dodgy chef who always overcooked things.
--------------------
My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Amazing Grace
High Church Protestant
# 95
|
Posted
Question (which may have been more suited to the Christmas thread, but I'll ask it here): how did your churches handle the timing of the Dec 25 services, if you had one or more?
Most years we have ours at 11 am to give clergy and musicians a chance to recover a little from the big midnight wing-ding. But since Christmas was Sunday this year, we had it at 10 am, standard Sunday time slot. We did cancel our 8 am service.
So, the same time as every Sunday? Or different?
--------------------
WTFWED? "Remember to always be yourself, unless you suck" - the Gator
Memory Eternal! Sheep 3, Phil the Wise Guy, and Jesus' Evil Twin in the SoF Nativity Play
Posts: 6593 | From: Sittin' by the dock of the [SF] bay | Registered: Jul 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amazing Grace:
Question (which may have been more suited to the Christmas thread, but I'll ask it here): how did your churches handle the timing of the Dec 25 services, if you had one or more?
Most years we have ours at 11 am to give clergy and musicians a chance to recover a little from the big midnight wing-ding. But since Christmas was Sunday this year, we had it at 10 am, standard Sunday time slot. We did cancel our 8 am service.
So, the same time as every Sunday? Or different?
Amazing Grace, I do think the question is better suited to the Christmas thread, so I'm going to copy it over to that thread. Respondents, please reply there. Thanks!
Mamacita, Eccles Host
--------------------
Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
PD
Shipmate
# 12436
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amazing Grace:
Question (which may have been more suited to the Christmas thread, but I'll ask it here): how did your churches handle the timing of the Dec 25 services, if you had one or more?
Most years we have ours at 11 am to give clergy and musicians a chance to recover a little from the big midnight wing-ding. But since Christmas was Sunday this year, we had it at 10 am, standard Sunday time slot. We did cancel our 8 am service.
So, the same time as every Sunday? Or different?
I adopted, as you would expect, the carry on regardless policy. Masses, as usual, at 9am and 10.30am. As it happens, if I had cancelled one I would have picked the wrong one and cancelled the 9am. As it was the 9am Low Mass was the better attended of the two!
PD
[ 11. January 2012, 04:46: Message edited by: PD ]
--------------------
Roadkill on the Information Super Highway!
My Assorted Rantings - http://www.theoldhighchurchman.blogspot.com
Posts: 4431 | From: Between a Rock and a Hard Place | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
PD
Shipmate
# 12436
|
Posted
Whoops! Read hostly admonition after replying to AG's post.
Sorry!
PD
--------------------
Roadkill on the Information Super Highway!
My Assorted Rantings - http://www.theoldhighchurchman.blogspot.com
Posts: 4431 | From: Between a Rock and a Hard Place | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
|
Posted
There is one verse of Adeste Fideles that I do not think has been translated into English. Why not? Here is the verse and my very rough translation. If there are any Latinists out there who can correct my translation it would be appreciated.
Aeterni Parentis splendorem aeternum
Velatum sub carne videbimus:
Deum infantem pannis involutum.
Venite adoremus, venite adoremus,
venite adoremus Dominum
From the eternal Father, splendor eternal
We now see wrapped in flesh
God as an infant wrapped and clothed.
O come ... etc
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
|
Posted
Simple answer is are multiple.
O come all ye faithful's translation is the work of multiple translators. The standard two translators are give on cyberhymnal they for some reason did not include this verse but no clues on Cyberhymnal.
Jengie
--------------------
"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Metapelagius
Shipmate
# 9453
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
There is one verse of Adeste Fideles that I do not think has been translated into English. Why not? Here is the verse and my very rough translation. If there are any Latinists out there who can correct my translation it would be appreciated.
Aeterni Parentis splendorem aeternum
Velatum sub carne videbimus:
Deum infantem pannis involutum.
Venite adoremus, venite adoremus,
venite adoremus Dominum
From the eternal Father, splendor eternal
We now see wrapped in flesh
God as an infant wrapped and clothed.
O come ... etc
You can find it here. As noted above half the verses were translated by Oakley; Mercer translated all eight. The Mercer version of the 'other' four verses can be found at no. 55 in the second edition of the CoS Church Hymnary.
--------------------
Rec a archaw e nim naccer.
y rof a duv. dagnouet.
Am bo forth. y porth riet.
Crist ny buv e trist yth orsset.
Posts: 1032 | From: Hereabouts | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
|
Posted
Thanks! My quick and dirty translation was at least in the ballpark.
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
|
Posted
Re the blessing of incense, our priest-in-charge uses the words 'Be thou blest by Him in Whose honour thou shalt be burned' - i.e. as per BXVI but in Ye Olde English. Seemly and edifying (at least to those who hear it!).
Ian J.
--------------------
Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Mama Thomas
Shipmate
# 10170
|
Posted
Similar to what I say. Scoop out three spoons, make the sacred sign while saying, "Be blessed by Him in whose name you shall be burned."
I love talking to inanimate objects like that. Sort of like abjuring the salt and water when they are blessed. I often tell baby priests if I catch them saying something like "I bless you in the Name of the F, S, and the HS." "You're blessing it, not baptising it!"
--------------------
All hearts are open, all desires known
Posts: 3742 | From: Somewhere far away | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
|
Posted
Blonde moment: Do we light the paschal candle for confirmation? I can't remember.
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
seasick
...over the edge
# 48
|
Posted
No, unless any of the candidates are also being baptised.
--------------------
We believe there is, and always was, in every Christian Church, ... an outward priesthood, ordained by Jesus Christ, and an outward sacrifice offered therein. - John Wesley
Posts: 5769 | From: A world of my own | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
jordan32404
Shipmate
# 15833
|
Posted
Anyone know of an online recording of an Epiphany Lessons & Carols Service?
Posts: 268 | From: Albany, NY | Registered: Aug 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
Cruet
Shipmate
# 14586
|
Posted
St. Thomas Fifth Ave. NYC has today's L and C service on line.
--------------------
snake belly land
Posts: 92 | From: Houston, Tx | Registered: Feb 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Carys
Ship's Celticist
# 78
|
Posted
Choral Evensong on Radio 3 was lessons and carols for epiphany on 4th Jan, but unfortunately I-player only has the most recent episode, so that's no help!
Carys
--------------------
O Lord, you have searched me and know me
You know when I sit and when I rise
Posts: 6896 | From: Bryste mwy na thebyg | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
jordan32404
Shipmate
# 15833
|
Posted
I saw St. Thomas' was an "Epiphany Procession" is that the same thing? I'm not quite sure what they mean by that.
Posts: 268 | From: Albany, NY | Registered: Aug 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
+Chad
Staffordshire Lad
# 5645
|
Posted
Does snyone know of an online source (free) for the Lourdes Hymn (i.e. Immaculate Mary)?
I've found one which is melody only - could do with full score.
Many thankings.
--------------------
Chad (The + is silent)
Where there is tea there is hope.
Posts: 2698 | From: The Backbone of England | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Liturgylover
Shipmate
# 15711
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by jordan32404:
Anyone know of an online recording of an Epiphany Lessons & Carols Service?
St. John's Chapel Cambridge will be having their Epiphany Carol services next weekend - 21 and 22 January - which will be then be available on their webcast for a good few weeks.
Posts: 452 | From: North London | Registered: Jun 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
Ceremoniar
Shipmate
# 13596
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by +Chad:
Does snyone know of an online source (free) for the Lourdes Hymn (i.e. Immaculate Mary)?
I've found one which is melody only - could do with full score.
Many thankings.
Right there on YouTube
Posts: 1240 | From: U.S. | Registered: Apr 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ceremoniar:
quote:
Originally posted by +Chad:
Does snyone know of an online source (free) for the Lourdes Hymn (i.e. Immaculate Mary)?
I've found one which is melody only - could do with full score.
Many thankings.
Right there on YouTube
Thank you for sharing that,Ceremoniar. I think that Chad is after the sheet music rather than a recording, lovely though it was.
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
seasick
...over the edge
# 48
|
Posted
I think, if you correct the words, then this may be what you need.
--------------------
We believe there is, and always was, in every Christian Church, ... an outward priesthood, ordained by Jesus Christ, and an outward sacrifice offered therein. - John Wesley
Posts: 5769 | From: A world of my own | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by jordan32404:
Anyone know of an online recording of an Epiphany Lessons & Carols Service?
It might be worth googling 'the light of God's glory: an Epiphany carol service and Epiphany resources' - Peter Moger, RSCM. There are several choral items, liturgy, hymns and carols. I know you can buy a copy for about £8, but there may be samples online for you to look at before deciding to buy (for example, here is the printed music and liturgy). And several of the carols / anthems featured in the book may well be on youtube to listen to.
--------------------
Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by seasick:
I think, if you correct the words, then this may be what you need.
The same author has written an excellent processional hymn for Candlemas to the same tune. Anyone interested PM me.
--------------------
Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
quote:
Originally posted by seasick:
I think, if you correct the words, then this may be what you need.
The same author has written an excellent processional hymn for Candlemas to the same tune. Anyone interested PM me.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
[ 16. January 2012, 20:19: Message edited by: Michael Astley ]
--------------------
If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
+Chad
Staffordshire Lad
# 5645
|
Posted
Many thanks.
I don't believe I forgot that Christingle song. I looked at it when planning this year's service.
--------------------
Chad (The + is silent)
Where there is tea there is hope.
Posts: 2698 | From: The Backbone of England | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Leaf
Shipmate
# 14169
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin L:
Blonde moment: Do we light the paschal candle for confirmation? I can't remember.
But, but, but, it's Affirmation of Baptism, non?
I'd light 'er up.
Posts: 2786 | From: the electrical field | Registered: Oct 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
+Chad
Staffordshire Lad
# 5645
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
The same author has written an excellent processional hymn for Candlemas to the same tune. Anyone interested PM me.
It's a Candlemass hymn I want it for - I'm guessing the same one!
--------------------
Chad (The + is silent)
Where there is tea there is hope.
Posts: 2698 | From: The Backbone of England | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
|
Posted
This is the one we sing (link to Oremus Hymnal) - we sing it from Common Praise - no.80.
--------------------
Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
|
Posted
And this one is fun - you can see the sheet music and sing along (but they've left off the last line when you listen - I like to think it's to check up on my sight-reading skills, but think it's probably more to do with copyright and making sure you buy the full version!).
I had a bit of fun and clicked the melody and harmony versions at different times - it sounds just like our choir when cantoris and decani get out of synch. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
--------------------
Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
This is the one we sing (link to Oremus Hymnal) - we sing it from Common Praise - no.80.
That's the one. I know the author: she's got talent. (Incidentally, antipodean shipmates might like to know that she has written some variant words for those verses that talk about spring coming.)
--------------------
Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Hennah
Ship's Mother Hen
# 9541
|
Posted
When the debates are raised, people always seem to talk about "women bishops" and "women clergy" rather than "female bishops" and "female clergy".
Is there a reason?
--------------------
Never stand behind satan in a Post Office queue: the devil takes many forms.
Posts: 925 | From: The Henhouse, Beside The Seaside, Kent | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
|
Posted
Actually, "female bishops" gets about 8 million hits on google, versus one and a half for "women bishops" so it seems to be the other way round.
--------------------
Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
Posts: 8164 | From: Notre Dame, IN | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Thread closed
Printer-friendly view
![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
Thanks!
