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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Introverts are bloody selfish!
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
This thread is born out of a thread in All Saints but it's a frustration I live with all the time.
People, stop making a virtue of being introverted!
If you are so tied up in yourself and how people see you, what's the virtue in that?
Can't you just work on forgetting yourself for a while and simply enjoy life?
Is finding out what others are up to SUCH a huge chore that you have to curl up and run away if they so much as look at you?
FFS!!
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
Though extroverts are just as bad.
Can't you just enjoy life without forcing yourself on those around you? Is it such a chore to find out if the person you're with wants to hear everything about you before you splurge out your life details. What's wrong with a few seconds of silence that you feel the need to fill it with the sound of your voice?
FFS!!
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Helen-Eva
Shipmate
# 15025
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
If you are so tied up in yourself and how people see you, what's the virtue in that?
Can't you just work on forgetting yourself for a while and simply enjoy life?
Is finding out what others are up to SUCH a huge chore that you have to curl up and run away if they so much as look at you?
Unhellish answers:
1 - there isn't one, obviously. We just can't help it.
2 - we can't. Really. I've tried SOOO hard over the years and finally accepted it just doesn't work.
3 - unfortunately yes.
Can't you treat introversion like a disability rather than a life choice? I didn't choose to be this way.
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I thought the radio 3 announcer said "Weber" but it turned out to be Webern. Story of my life.
Posts: 637 | From: London, hopefully in a theatre or concert hall, more likely at work | Registered: Aug 2009
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Boogie--
I don't think anyone on the AS thread said extroverts are bad--just that some aspects of church can be uncomfortable for introverts. If you went to a Quaker meeting that practiced silence, or a silent meditation session, you might feel just as uncomfortable.
As with many differences, maybe think of it as being left-handed in a right-handed world. I'm not sure of any personality stats, whether in worship communities or general society. But it seems to me that there are lots of introverts, lots of extroverts, and lots of people in between. A wise worship community tries to find ways to acknowledge, accommodate, and honor all of them.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Helen-Eva
Shipmate
# 15025
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Posted
Goldenkey ![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
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I thought the radio 3 announcer said "Weber" but it turned out to be Webern. Story of my life.
Posts: 637 | From: London, hopefully in a theatre or concert hall, more likely at work | Registered: Aug 2009
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lilBuddha
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# 14333
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Posted
I think it helps to start by understanding what an introvert actually is. Admittedly the definition does vary a bit, but I think Jung's original intent is the most helpful. It isn't social agility v. social awkwardness. One can be an introvert and navigate the social just fine. And the reverse. It is about where one is centered. Our behaviour is a result of various influences, not always a direct link, so looking at social abilities as a marker isn't completely helpful.
But to Boogie's complaint, it hammers and nails.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
It made me smile, to see introversion in hell.
However, it wasn't particularly funny, when I was young, as I got badgered with 'don't be shy' and so on. Fuck off, I am shy.
However, I got over that, and accepted the way I am. In fact, I socialize quite well, I just don't like people invading my space.
Selfish? Not sure about that. I think that's orthogonal to intro/extro. I've met plenty of extroverts who are fairly narcissistic. I used to know an MP, who was incredibly extrovert, talked all the time, to whoever, but if you sat with him for a while, you realized how me-me-me he is.
I think Merton said that as he went inside, he got more in touch with the world, a nice idea.
[ 16. March 2016, 09:39: Message edited by: quetzalcoatl ]
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
I don't quite understand - I enjoy life, and I'm an introvert. It's not a virtue, it's just who I am. The problem especially for Christian introverts is that (some) churches are built around extroversion to an unhelpful degree, where extroversion really is seen as a virtue.
Introversion isn't a synonym for being anti-social, and extroversion isn't a synonym for being friendly.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
It's not just church, is it? I think extroversion has been extolled quite widely in Western culture. I remember at school being told that I had to come out of my shell, so fuck off to that.
I worked with quite a few people (in therapy) who had had their introversion pathologized in one way or another, so they had to destress themselves over it, and learn to accept themselves.
Of course, some introverts are the life and soul of the party, quite confusing really. Well, it's not black and white.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
I'm an extrovert married to an introvert and I think the OP is total bollocks
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
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Liopleurodon
Mighty sea creature
# 4836
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Posted
I'm not shy. I'm introverted as all hell though. I'm not proud of that, but I'm not ashamed of it either. When I did finally learn of the introvert/extrovert scale and what it means, it was a big relief. I was a student at the time, and there was tremendous peer pressure to always be out there, socialising, drinking, partying, in and out of each others' rooms all the time. The extroverts found this exhilarating. The introverts got burnt out and depressed very quickly. The culture was that you could get tired out reading books all the time so then you went off to the pub to recharge. My pattern was the exact opposite, but it was very difficult to express that, particularly as people tended to brand you as a loser if you did.
So learning that introversion was a thing was really useful. I am very, very introverted. I'd probably be happy doing 99% of my human interaction online. I like cats more than people.
That said, there has been a bit of a backlash in recent years, with introverts getting a bit snobby and superior. I've seen articles about "this is what introversion is" which were accurate and helpful, but I've seen many others which were snotty and entitled. And the people who are really into being introverted as a huge part of their identity often seem to see extroverts as basically mouth-breathing social whores, so I can understand the frustration.
I'm going to suggest, though, that the OP is based on a misunderstanding of what introversion is.
[ 16. March 2016, 10:40: Message edited by: Liopleurodon ]
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Our God is an awesome God. Much better than that ridiculous God that Desert Bluffs has. - Welcome to Night Vale
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
My son was the shyest child I have ever met, he was selective mute until 8 years old. He is now a confident young man who loves and seeks out company.
He was (sensibly) encouraged to learn to socialise.
I have two friendly, sociable dogs. Like humans, dogs are social animals. We go walking and they run and play with lots of other friendly, sociable dogs. Then we meet one snappy, unpleasant thing which can't stand to have other dogs near it - why their owner brings it to a dog busy area I don't know. But some introverts remind me of this dog. 'Leave me alone' writ large. They 'shout' "Let me be myself" without allowing us chatty ones the same privilege.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Liopleurodon:
I'm going to suggest, though, that the OP is based on a misunderstanding of what introversion is.
I think you are right - I can't begin to imagine what it's like.
I find introverts are attracted to me my husband and closest friends are introverts. I have learned to chat very little at home - and that's fine, we get on well.
Don't get me wrong, I like being alone too - it's just that I adore being part of a big group, chatting and laughing. The best thing about teaching was the staff room imo.
Oh yes - this sums up my husband and close friends. They miss out on so much fun!
[ 16. March 2016, 10:48: Message edited by: Boogie ]
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Macrina
Shipmate
# 8807
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Posted
Oh bugger off.
I spend my life having to justify a preference to recharge my batteries in peace and quiet.
I like people. I enjoy people. I just need my quiet time.
You try spending a week completely alone and then complain about how narcissistic we all are.
Posts: 535 | From: Christchurch, New Zealand | Registered: Nov 2004
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
Well, I like being part of a big group. I am the classic life and soul of the party. However, I am an introvert, quite clearly. I remember living in a student house, and finding it intolerable, moved out on my own, ah, bliss.
I am also married to an introvert, so it's very quiet in our house!
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
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Liopleurodon
Mighty sea creature
# 4836
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
My son was the shyest child I have ever met, he was selective mute until 8 years old. He is now a confident young man who loves and seeks out company.
He was (sensibly) encouraged to learn to socialise.
I have two friendly, sociable dogs. Like humans, dogs are social animals. We go walking and they run and play with lots of other friendly, sociable dogs. Then we meet one snappy, unpleasant thing which can't stand to have other dogs near it - why their owner brings it to a dog busy area I don't know. But some introverts remind me of this dog. 'Leave me alone' writ large. They 'shout' "Let me be myself" without allowing us chatty ones the same privilege.
Yeah, you don't understand what introversion is. The anecdote about your son? Irrelevant. Introversion is not shyness or social anxiety. Introversion is not rudeness. It's not about being self-absorbed either.
Introversion is just this: some people find being around people tires them out (introverts) while others find it energises them (extroverts). That's it. It runs in a scale. Most introverts have friends and family they love, and may even enjoy meeting new people. We just need more time by ourselves to recharge our batteries. I love alone time and find social groups exhausting. It's just the way I am and I can't change it. My whole family are the same. I'm not shy. I'm not rude. I will, however, turn down that party invitation in favour of sitting at home with a book and a cat, because life's too short to waste time doing things you hate.
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Our God is an awesome God. Much better than that ridiculous God that Desert Bluffs has. - Welcome to Night Vale
Posts: 1921 | From: Lurking under the ship | Registered: Aug 2003
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Macrina:
Oh bugger off.
I spend my life having to justify a preference to recharge my batteries in peace and quiet.
I like people. I enjoy people. I just need my quiet time.
We all need our quiet time. But cringing when someone talks to you isn't about 'enjoying recharging batteries' or enjoying quiet time.
Why not try showing those people that you enjoy them?
quote:
Originally posted by Macrina:
You try spending a week completely alone and then complain about how narcissistic we all are.
You mean I wouldn't like it or I would? Not sure what you are getting at?
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Liopleurodon
Mighty sea creature
# 4836
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
I find introverts are attracted to me my husband and closest friends are introverts. I have learned to chat very little at home - and that's fine, we get on well.
Don't get me wrong, I like being alone too - it's just that I adore being part of a big group, chatting and laughing. The best thing about teaching was the staff room imo.
Oh yes - this sums up my husband and close friends. They miss out on so much fun!
Do you really not understand that not everyone has the same definition of fun as you? I'm not missing out on anything, because I'm not spending my time doing shit I hate. I can spend my life sitting at a sewing machine with an audiobook in the background and I guarantee that I am at least as happy as you are in a big group of people. And it's easier to organise.
I really tried to give you the benefit of the doubt but you're being really fucking stupid here. This is on a par with "ADHD people are stupid. Learn to sit down, shut up and focus on a textbook like I can, for hours on end, enjoying every moment of blessed solitude. You're missing out on so much fun AND knowledge!" Turns out that not everyone has the same brain.
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Our God is an awesome God. Much better than that ridiculous God that Desert Bluffs has. - Welcome to Night Vale
Posts: 1921 | From: Lurking under the ship | Registered: Aug 2003
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
Yes, that's quite familiar, people telling me what fun I should be having. Well, I bought into that during my youth, and felt miserable a lot of the time. Then I realized that my idea of fun was quite different.
Ah, quite simple really. People are different. It's an astonishing discovery, isn't it?
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
My son ... was (sensibly) encouraged to learn to socialise.
As has been said, this is irrelevant.
Yes, it's important for people to be able to socialise.
But, you know what? Being introverted doesn't make one unable to socialise - it's just that we need some down time to recover afterwards (and, possibly before to prepare).
And, being unable to socialise is as much a problem for extroverts. The problems they have socialising are different is all. Too much energy is as bad as too little.
Socialising is about communication, about listening as well as speaking. Some people talk too much, others too little. Some people listen and others don't. They're all failing to socialise. Meeting someone at a party and blurting out your entire life story without a break is just not on. IMO, better to sit in the corner and read the newspaper.
So, yes, encourage everyone - extrovert or introvert - to socialise. Encourage, not force people together against their will in contrived "sharing times".
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
It's my lunch break. I will spend it reading stuff up, working on RPG design on Google Docs, and avoiding contact. Why? Because I've had to communicate and be available for people all morning, and I need my withdrawal.
Missing out on fun? No, I'm missing out on nothing. I'm doing the things I like doing. I tried when I was younger having extrovert fun. It wasn't fun. It was noisy, confusing and stressed me out. That's not fun.
[ 16. March 2016, 11:16: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
Jung has a nice story about two friends walking along a forest path, one introvert, one extrovert. They see a castle in the distance, and the extrovert exclaims with joy, come on, let's see if it we can get in, and have a look round.
The introvert is reluctant, but goes along with it. They walk round inside, and come to a library. The introvert enjoys looking at the old books and curios, but his friend now gets impatient, and wants to go outside again.
It's quite an amusing story really, and the moral is, (drum-roll), people are different!
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Jack o' the Green
Shipmate
# 11091
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
This thread is born out of a thread in All Saints but it's a frustration I live with all the time.
People, stop making a virtue of being introverted!
If you are so tied up in yourself and how people see you, what's the virtue in that?
Can't you just work on forgetting yourself for a while and simply enjoy life?
Is finding out what others are up to SUCH a huge chore that you have to curl up and run away if they so much as look at you?
FFS!!
Except virtually non of that has anything to do with being introverted.
Posts: 3121 | From: Lancashire, England | Registered: Feb 2006
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
Liopleurodon wrote:
quote:
I really tried to give you the benefit of the doubt but you're being really fucking stupid here. This is on a par with "ADHD people are stupid. Learn to sit down, shut up and focus on a textbook like I can, for hours on end, enjoying every moment of blessed solitude. You're missing out on so much fun AND knowledge!" Turns out that not everyone has the same brain.
I think this is a crucial point, as it illustrates prejudice and intolerance. It ranks with 'pull your socks up' about depression, and other ailments. It also smacks of a monolithic view of people, which I find very peculiar.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Boogie--
Sounds like the problem is that you're unhappy with your close circle of introverts, and are taking that out on all introverts.
I'm sorry you're frustrated and unhappy--and, I'm guessing, lonely. But you really misunderstand introverts.
Why not find some extroverts to hang out with? Online, or off.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
Thinking of the Canal Boat example Boogie gave on the AS thread, could I point out that if I were on a boat and manoeuvring a lock, and some random other boater started asking me where I came from and what I did and all that, I'd try, politely to end the conversation. I don't really see the point in sharing my life story with a total stranger, and I'd actually feel a bit miffed that someone thought it was appropriate to ask me to do so.
I'm really, really struggling to work out why the poor bloke who just wants to float down the canal is the rude one, rather than the total stranger who's just started trying to exchange personal details.
You may not realise this, Boogie, but talking about the things people always ask, "what are you doing at the weekend?" "where are you going on holiday" etc. etc. is actually really trying and tiring. I'd rather people didn't. If I want them to know I'll tell them.
We introverts nevertheless have to put up with a certain amount of this chit-chat, but it's hard work. We're constantly making allowances for you extroverts, but you don't realise it, but the moment we start suggesting you make allowances for us, it's a Hell thread.
[ 16. March 2016, 11:40: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
Yes - sorry Boogie, but you've missed the point by a country-mile.
I've done various psychosometric tests and leadership tests and so on and my personality type is pretty odd ... which may not surprise anyone here.
In some ways I'm quite introverted - which doesn't mean I'm shy or socially awkward. It simply means that I draw on my own inner-resources or like my own company at times rather than seeking external affirmation ...
But at the same time, I can be quite extroverted - I'd be the one wanting to dash up to the castle, I like conviviality, I like company, I like banter, jokes ... I host events, I compere open-mic poetry evenings ... I can talk until the cows come home ...
And yes, I crave affirmation at times ... I want to be liked, I want people to notice me ...
So I'm a wierd mix of all these things.
My wife is very introverted and I wouldn't pretend that's been easy. As a consequence, our social lives have effectively developed in very different ways - and whilst we have some friends in common, for the most part we socialise separately - which doesn't mean we don't get on ...
As far as churchy things go - I've done the whole gamut from loud and lairy charismatic through to contemplative silence and all stations in between.
One of the things that bugs me at the mo' is how so many churches are trying to consciously position themselves as places which offer 'fun' ... well stuff that ... If I want fun I'll go to the pub, I'll organise an arts event, I'll go and read my poems somewhere and like the sound of my own voice ...
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
There's nothing worse than enforced jollity. 'Come to church folks, it'll be fun, fun, fun!'
No it fucking well isn't. The next person who tells me that church should be 'fun' will get a broadside that they won't find 'fun' at all.
You want fun? Well, fuck off and get a life ... go and join something, go to stock-car racing events or to Alton Towers (my idea of Hell) or disappear with your partner for a weekend of rampant sex ...
Just don't come round here expecting me to enjoy your piss-poor jokes in church of a Sunday morning or 'do the little actions' with the pre-schoolers.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
Oh Flying Spaghetti Monster, action songs, now that's a subject for Hell if ever there was one.
Never liked them, even (especially even) as a child. Why exactly should I want to do this?
I used to have a particular hatred of the Hokey Cokey as well. You get on with it, I'll go on a mental Safari in the Jurassic period, much more fun.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
I did meet some brilliant people on canal boats, and had great chats. That's not inconsistent with being an introvert at all.
Well, we have a spectrum rather than a black and white distinction. My wife is an introvert, and remembers going to the pub in her nightie, and getting up on the table to sing, bloody show-off.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Helen-Eva
Shipmate
# 15025
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Yes, that's quite familiar, people telling me what fun I should be having. Well, I bought into that during my youth, and felt miserable a lot of the time. Then I realized that my idea of fun was quite different.
Me too!! Isn't it wonderful when you discover that you're not actually an awful person for not enjoying the stuff other people enjoy!
I'm off to recharge my batteries in my lunchhour at work by finding somewhere quiet and reading a book and not talking to anyone. If I don't do that I'll be horrible and stupid all afternoon. [MORE horrible and stupid ![[Biased]](wink.gif) ]
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I thought the radio 3 announcer said "Weber" but it turned out to be Webern. Story of my life.
Posts: 637 | From: London, hopefully in a theatre or concert hall, more likely at work | Registered: Aug 2009
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Rocinante
Shipmate
# 18541
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Posted
I Have Myers-Briggs profile INTP, with a very strong I. This is the ideal personality type for the work I do, which has been variously engineering/ IT/ Analytical/ Research. Doesn't mean I can't talk to people, I just prefer to go deeply into something ON MY BLOODY OWN.
My first year of college (living in halls) was the worst of my life. People popping in and out of my room, constant socialising, endless wackiness designed to ensure that extroverts never had to confront the gaping void at the centre of their souls. 2nd year, moved out into a bedsit. Bliss.
Extroverts in the workplace - god what a nightmare they are. Let's call a meeting, 2 hours of yada yada yada and at the end of that we'll pretend we've achieved something. FUCK OFF I'M WORKING.
Posts: 384 | From: UK | Registered: Jan 2016
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Helen-Eva:
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Yes, that's quite familiar, people telling me what fun I should be having. Well, I bought into that during my youth, and felt miserable a lot of the time. Then I realized that my idea of fun was quite different.
Me too!! Isn't it wonderful when you discover that you're not actually an awful person for not enjoying the stuff other people enjoy!
I'm off to recharge my batteries in my lunchhour at work by finding somewhere quiet and reading a book and not talking to anyone. If I don't do that I'll be horrible and stupid all afternoon. [MORE horrible and stupid ]
Yes, it took me a long time to realize that too much exposure made me feel frazzled, and then I would become rather nutty and off-centre. I suppose I was about 40 when the penny dropped, and I overcame my shame about wanting to be alone sometimes. Not all the time, of course.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Why not find some extroverts to hang out with? Online, or off.
I do ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
I still enjoy staffroom banter twice a week and have lunch/coffee with chatty friends regularly. But fast flowing conversation isn't as easy to come by as it was in my yoof, that's true.
The meme I put up about 'we like to think before we speak' is fine when in a meeting, serious discussion etc where careful thought is needed. But when chatting - why?? Why not just let the conversation flow?
Seems like a need to be right over sociability to me.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Sipech
Shipmate
# 16870
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
The meme I put up about 'we like to think before we speak' is fine when in a meeting, serious discussion etc where careful thought is needed. But when chatting - why?? Why not just let the conversation flow?
Because when you think of 4 different ways of expressing an idea simultaneously, it's hard to pick the right one at extremely short notice. This results in mixing one's expressions and/or a stammer.
Typing on a computer is much easier, as there's a backspace key, allowing you to choose more carefully. In spoken conversation, I come across as even more of an idiot than I do online.
Posts: 3791 | From: On the corporate ladder | Registered: Jan 2012
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Liopleurodon
Mighty sea creature
# 4836
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Posted
You going to engage with anything that anyone has said about "my brain just plain doesn't work that way?" Boogie? Or are you going to just assume that everyone is being difficult when we fail to be you?
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Our God is an awesome God. Much better than that ridiculous God that Desert Bluffs has. - Welcome to Night Vale
Posts: 1921 | From: Lurking under the ship | Registered: Aug 2003
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sipech:
Typing on a computer is much easier, as there's a backspace key, allowing you to choose more carefully. In spoken conversation, I come across as even more of an idiot than I do online.
Maybe this is at the core of it - extroverts are less worried about what people think of them?
(I take everyone's points about recharging batteries - we all need to do that and have different ways of doing so)
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Liopleurodon:
You going to engage with anything that anyone has said about "my brain just plain doesn't work that way?" Boogie? Or are you going to just assume that everyone is being difficult when we fail to be you?
"Fail to see what I'm getting at" would be more to the point.
I think the Ship is pretty much full of introverts and sometimes they speak as if it is odd needing ordinary, everyday, normal conversation.
I also wonder, looking at the All Saints thread, why they go to Church at all? I go because my friends are there (having pretty much no faith in God left). Going through the motions alone, then going home alone - no contact. Is that really what Church is for?
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Jack o' the Green
Shipmate
# 11091
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
quote:
Originally posted by Sipech:
Typing on a computer is much easier, as there's a backspace key, allowing you to choose more carefully. In spoken conversation, I come across as even more of an idiot than I do online.
Maybe this is at the core of it - extroverts are less worried about what people think of them?
I think you are misinterpreting an introvert's motives in many cases. Wanting to express yourself accurately, or trying to find a way of expressing yourself without causing unnecessary distress to someone else are other possible reasons for thinking before speaking. It has nothing to do with caring about what people think about you. I can see that particular trait in extraverts and introverts - they just sometimes manifest in different ways. They are not an intrinsic part of either.
Posts: 3121 | From: Lancashire, England | Registered: Feb 2006
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Erik
Shipmate
# 11406
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
Maybe this is at the core of it - extroverts are less worried about what people think of them?
You just don't get it. It's not about what people think of me. You ask why I have to think before I speak. Why can't I just talk without thinking and let the conversation flow? BECAUSE I CAN'T. I don't work that way. Don't you get that your essentially saying 'Why can't you be more like me?'
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One day I will think of something worth saying here.
Posts: 96 | From: Leeds, UK | Registered: May 2006
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Erik:
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
Maybe this is at the core of it - extroverts are less worried about what people think of them?
You just don't get it. It's not about what people think of me. You ask why I have to think before I speak. Why can't I just talk without thinking and let the conversation flow? BECAUSE I CAN'T. I don't work that way. Don't you get that your essentially saying 'Why can't you be more like me?'
And because we're constantly trying to work out when it's our turn to speak, and when it's allowed to talk over other people (it clearly is because people do it all the time) and whether we're dominating the conversation or whether we're boring people.
It doesn't "just flow".
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Paul.
Shipmate
# 37
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
The meme I put up about 'we like to think before we speak' is fine when in a meeting, serious discussion etc where careful thought is needed. But when chatting - why?? Why not just let the conversation flow?
Because it's not a question of "letting" it flow. That conjures up an image of conversation being something with its own momentum and that it takes effort to stop it happening. Actually maybe that's true for extroverts.
For me, and I suspect other introverts, it's the opposite. Conversation can be very enjoyable but it requires effort to maintain. My default position would be silence*.
FWIW I think that meme borders on the smugness that Liopleurodon refers to. Fast-flowing conversation isn't something I do often because it's draining not because I'm so fricking deep and profound.
(*then there's the whole topic of having to figure out whether the person you're with is the sort who can enjoy silence with you, or is enduring it.)
Posts: 3689 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2004
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
quote:
Originally posted by Liopleurodon:
You going to engage with anything that anyone has said about "my brain just plain doesn't work that way?" Boogie? Or are you going to just assume that everyone is being difficult when we fail to be you?
"Fail to see what I'm getting at" would be more to the point.
I think the Ship is pretty much full of introverts and sometimes they speak as if it is odd needing ordinary, everyday, normal conversation.
I also wonder, looking at the All Saints thread, why they go to Church at all? I go because my friends are there (having pretty much no faith in God left). Going through the motions alone, then going home alone - no contact. Is that really what Church is for?
There's a big difference between having chats with particular people and the sorts of bizarre practices mentioned in the AS thread.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Erik:
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
Maybe this is at the core of it - extroverts are less worried about what people think of them?
You just don't get it. It's not about what people think of me. You ask why I have to think before I speak. Why can't I just talk without thinking and let the conversation flow? BECAUSE I CAN'T. I don't work that way. Don't you get that your essentially saying 'Why can't you be more like me?'
Yes, it does look like that. But this is familiar to me. Throughout my life, extroverts have been saying to me, why aren't you X, Y and Z? Where X, Y, and Z are traits that they have.
If anything is narcissistic, this is it! And fucking intolerant.
I don't think all extroverts are like this, but some of them find it hard to actually see the other.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
TBH, and since this is Hell, Boogie's characterisation of introverts is the mirror image of "all extroverts are big mouthed, big headed, narcissistic "look at me! Look at me!" show-off arseholes who can't keep their stupid mouths shut for ten seconds"
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
That's one of the reasons for Hell, isn't it? I mean, you can let off steam, and saying something idiotic and exaggerated.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
That's one of the reasons for Hell, isn't it? I mean, you can let off steam, and saying something idiotic and exaggerated.
Well, yeah, with the fucking great target painted on your arse proviso.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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goperryrevs
Shipmtae
# 13504
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
But when chatting - why?? Why not just let the conversation flow?
In a conversation between an introvert and an extrovert, just letting the conversation flow will often mean the extrovert dominating the vast majority of the conversation and not actually getting to hear what insight the introvert might also have. If anything, extroverts need to take the initiative to listen rather than dominate conversations, and to become more comfortable with silence.
In terms of worrying what people think about people think of them, insecure people worry about that. You can get insecure introverted people and insecure extroverted people.
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"Keep your eye on the donut, not on the hole." - David Lynch
Posts: 2098 | From: Midlands | Registered: Mar 2008
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
That's one of the reasons for Hell, isn't it? I mean, you can let off steam, and saying something idiotic and exaggerated.
Well, yeah, with the fucking great target painted on your arse proviso.
Well, I think it fair enough that Boogie expresses her annoyance at introverts. I think some of her points are bloody stupid, but there we are.
[ 16. March 2016, 13:43: Message edited by: quetzalcoatl ]
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Thinking of the Canal Boat example Boogie gave on the AS thread, could I point out that if I were on a boat and manoeuvring a lock, and some random other boater started asking me where I came from and what I did and all that, I'd try, politely to end the conversation. I don't really see the point in sharing my life story with a total stranger, and I'd actually feel a bit miffed that someone thought it was appropriate to ask me to do so.
I'm not a canal boat person, but I am a hill walker (though no where near as often as I would like). And, there is a sort of unwritten convention about "what to do when meeting someone coming the other way on the hill" (or, in my case, quite often going the same way but walking faster). It starts with a look at each other to acknowledge each others presence, a nod and a "hello". If you feel like a wee chat you slow down, if they also slow down then you can manage a "the weather's not as wet as I was expecting", "though the wind on the ridge back there is a bit nasty". You may feel more chatty and practically stop, if they do so as well then you can spend a couple of minutes talking about the route you've followed, maybe whether the view is as good as it is from some other mountain you've been up recently or whatever. But, certainly nothing more than that before you get on your way. The problem with the canal lock gate is that you're forced to stop to operate the lock gates, so the cues of slowing down aren't there.
Of course, if you're on a hill on your own meeting someone else on their own the chances of that being a meeting of two extraverts is quite low.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Soror Magna
Shipmate
# 9881
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Posted
Boogie, I loves you, I really do, but you've clearly confused being an introvert with ... sheee-it, Billy Bob, a whole bunch of other things that aren't being an introvert. There are introverted self-centred assholes and there are extroverted self-centred assholes. It would be just as stupid and wrong for me to say that extroverts can't have intimate relationships because they love crowds and one person just can't keep or hold their interest for very long.
Beg a host to do you a big, big favour and close the thread or change the title.
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"You come with me to room 1013 over at the hospital, I'll show you America. Terminal, crazy and mean." -- Tony Kushner, "Angels in America"
Posts: 5430 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005
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