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Source: (consider it) Thread: Hell: I wish I were gay
Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76

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I imagine that not having the shit beaten out of you because of your sexuality, and not having people assume that you're great at sports but thick as pigshit because you're black might be a start. Add to that not having employers pass you over because they think you'll just have children and leave, and you might be onto something.

It's not that you (and me) get perks. It's that we don't get particular types of shit.

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Scot

Deck hand
# 2095

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You've been using the secret handshake, right?

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“Here, we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead, nor tolerate any error so long as reason is left free to combat it.” - Thomas Jefferson

Posts: 9515 | From: Southern California | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Scot

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# 2095

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You are so right Karl!

I got the shit beaten out of me in gradeschool because I was a skinny white nerd with Coke-bottle glasses. People assume I play basketball because I'm tall and they assume I'm thick because I'm from California, I'm registered Republican, or I'm a Christian. I've never been passed over for a job because of my gender, but I've been reprimanded because not enough of my subcontractors were women, minorities or veterans, and I've lost work for not being in one of those categories.

I am so damn lucky that I don't have to put up with the shit that some people get. I get my very own brand of shit to put up with.

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“Here, we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead, nor tolerate any error so long as reason is left free to combat it.” - Thomas Jefferson

Posts: 9515 | From: Southern California | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
chukovsky

Ship's toddler
# 116

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quote:
Originally posted by Scot:
You are so right Karl!

I got the shit beaten out of me in gradeschool because I was a skinny white nerd with Coke-bottle glasses.

Everyone gets the shit beaten out of them in gradeschool (apart from about half of the girls, who get ignored for an entire year, which is possibly worse).

Most adults don't get beaten to a pulp for holding hands with their significant other in public. Has this ever happened to a straight man?

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This space left intentionally blank. Do not write on both sides of the paper at once.

Posts: 6842 | From: somewhere else | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76

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And - what a surprise - if you'd read Sophs' thread on her friend at school, you'd know I have a lot of concern about bullying as well.

Marvellous isn't it. People are hospitalised, even murdered for their sexuality. Black people suffer considerably higher levels of unemployment. But we have an equal whinge because someone asks why all our subcontractors are WASPS? In the words of your sig., Scot, Spare me.

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
IntellectByProxy

Larger than you think
# 3185

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I think that that's an unfair thing to label Scot with. Ok, so he has too many WASPs as subcontractors, but that is almost always because the companies you use don't have a fair proportion of Non-WASPs.

Take engineering for example, about 10 percent of engineers in the UK are non-wasps. And about 2 percent of the total are non-white. It is phenominally difficult to recruit black people and women into engineering and nobody seems to know why.

The police in the UK have a quota of black people they must have on each force. Which is fine if the local demographic has a similar proportion, but in Cumbria (which has pretty close to no black people) the police force actually had to bus black police in from manchester to fill their quota.

Now that is just plain wrong, discriminatory and political correctness gone mad.

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www.zambiadiaries.blogspot.com

Posts: 3482 | From: The opposite | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76

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It's not entirely true either.

News item

I generally find claims of "political correctness gone mad" aren't entirely rooted in reality.

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Scot

Deck hand
# 2095

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quote:
Originally posted by Karl - Liberal Backslider:
And - what a surprise - if you'd read Sophs' thread on her friend at school, you'd know I have a lot of concern about bullying as well.

Marvellous isn't it. People are hospitalised, even murdered for their sexuality. Black people suffer considerably higher levels of unemployment. But we have an equal whinge because someone asks why all our subcontractors are WASPS? In the words of your sig., Scot, Spare me.

Get a grip, Karl. I not only read that thread, I posted on it several times. Bullying was not my point.

My point was that everyone has problems. People get murdered for all sorts of reasons. Guess what - those reasons are generally all bad.

Let me educate you as to why I did not meet my quota of disadvantaged subs (women and vets can be WAPSs, too). I did not meet the quota because I have no friggin' idea what color or gender the owners of the companies were. I hire them on the basis of reputation, qualifications, and past performance. I don't give a rat's ass about their ethnicity or gender. It's called being colorblind. Once upon a time it was what your liberals claimed to want.

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“Here, we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead, nor tolerate any error so long as reason is left free to combat it.” - Thomas Jefferson

Posts: 9515 | From: Southern California | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76

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quote:
My point was that everyone has problems. People get murdered for all sorts of reasons. Guess what - those reasons are generally all bad.
They are. What is the problem with organisations trying to do something about some of the reasons?

I don't think there's any discussion we can sensibly have about your quotas because I don't know the first thing about the situation in question.

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
SWAT (aka the former Mr PInk)
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# 2979

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I'll tell you the best reason for being Gay. Getting rippred off for your "Pink Pound" in any number of Bars & Clubs for a pint of so called acholic beverage. Since coming out I have accepted that you're definetly paying for the company you keep (& the god awful Jukeboxs in said establishments).

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"That's sooooooooooooo"

Posts: 65 | From: Croydon | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
IntellectByProxy

Larger than you think
# 3185

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quote:
Originally posted by MR PINK:
I'll tell you the best reason for being Gay. Getting rippred off for your "Pink Pound" in any number of Bars & Clubs for a pint of so called acholic beverage. Since coming out I have accepted that you're definetly paying for the company you keep (& the god awful Jukeboxs in said establishments).

I think you missed out a 'not' in your first sentence.
But surely you are allowed to go into pubs and clubs which are cheaper - you don't have to go in specifically gay bars.

Maybe I am making an assumption here, but when you say you came out, did you come out as being heterosexual or homosexual (or even French)?

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www.zambiadiaries.blogspot.com

Posts: 3482 | From: The opposite | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
SWAT (aka the former Mr PInk)
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# 2979

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Hmm put it thisay as Jamie says in Beautiful Thing "I'm very happy" thank you.

As to my choice of watering hole I have no problems with straight bars except I'm liable to get a smack in the face if I show any affection for my better halh (but hey don't you hate all that gooey stuff in public places anyway) but a lot of my friends seem to get very hetrophobic if you actually put them in a "real pub/club/whatever" in the "real world.

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"That's sooooooooooooo"

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IntellectByProxy

Larger than you think
# 3185

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I don't believe in homosexuality.

Actually I don't believe in heterosexuality either.

I think we're all bisexual, but in different proportions.

If 0 is fully homosexual
100 is fully heterosexual
and 50 is fully bisexual

then I would guess most people who say they are heterosexual would actually be around the 90, and similarly most people who say they're gay would be around the 10.

I think I am about an 80 hetty, that is I don't want to have sex with a guy, but the idea doesn't bother me, and I think some men are very good looking.

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www.zambiadiaries.blogspot.com

Posts: 3482 | From: The opposite | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460

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quote:
Originally posted by IntellectByProxy:

The police in the UK have a quota of black people they must have on each force. Which is fine if the local demographic has a similar proportion, but in Cumbria (which has pretty close to no black people) the police force actually had to bus black police in from manchester to fill their quota.

This is not true. In fact if they were doing this in England it would be illegal under English law and they could arrest themselves...
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
IntellectByProxy

Larger than you think
# 3185

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Well, I must admit to being a bit naughty and repeating something somebody told me without first checking it out.
I am surprised you say it is illegal under british law though, as many other forms of 'positive' discrimination are ok.

I mentioned ages ago that my university engineering department waived tuition fees for women to attract more to engineering. I think that's very wrong.

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www.zambiadiaries.blogspot.com

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Rev per Minute
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# 69

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quote:
Originally posted by IntellectByProxy:
Well, I must admit to being a bit naughty and repeating something somebody told me without first checking it out.
I am surprised you say it is illegal under british law though, as many other forms of 'positive' discrimination are ok.

I mentioned ages ago that my university engineering department waived tuition fees for women to attract more to engineering. I think that's very wrong.

All forms of positive discrimination are illegal under English law: however, some forms of positive action (such as encouraging women or ethnic minorities into professions where they are under-represented) are allowed. Before repeating Daily Mail-type assertions on 'political correctness gone mad', may I suggest you start with this site to check your facts - or is a government organisation too 'politically correct' for you?

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"Allons-y!" "Geronimo!" "Oh, for God's sake!" The Day of the Doctor

At the end of the day, we face our Maker alongside Jesus. RIP ken

Posts: 2696 | From: my desk (if I can find the keyboard under this mess) | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Scot

Deck hand
# 2095

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quote:
Originally posted by Rhisiart:
All forms of positive discrimination are illegal under English law: however, some forms of positive action (such as encouraging women or ethnic minorities into professions where they are under-represented) are allowed.

Argument by redefinition of terms is intellectually weak and morally questionable. I would have much more respect for the proponents of ideas like this if they would simply admit that they are in favor of some sorts of discrimination.

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“Here, we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead, nor tolerate any error so long as reason is left free to combat it.” - Thomas Jefferson

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IntellectByProxy

Larger than you think
# 3185

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quote:
Originally posted by Rhisiart:
All forms of positive discrimination are illegal under English law: however, some forms of positive action (such as encouraging women or ethnic minorities into professions where they are under-represented) are allowed. Before repeating Daily Mail-type assertions on 'political correctness gone mad', may I suggest you start with this site to check your facts - or is a government organisation too 'politically correct' for you?

Ok Ok, Chill!
Shouldn't have said it without first checking it out, it's not something I usually do.

And don't accuse me of 'Daily-mail type assertions', you don't piss around with words like that. Call me a dickhead, but don't use 'daily-mail' against me, it's so cheapening.

Please don't assume that I am against positive action, I am not, but it is difficult to find a philosophical standpoint in which you disagree with discrimination, and yet agree with positive 'action' of the type shown by my university. This is a philosophical argument, not a real one.

Positive action almost always disadvantages one group, and that is not a good thing (but it may be necessary)

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www.zambiadiaries.blogspot.com

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IntellectByProxy

Larger than you think
# 3185

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quote:
Originally posted by Scot:
quote:
Originally posted by Rhisiart:
All forms of positive discrimination are illegal under English law: however, some forms of positive action (such as encouraging women or ethnic minorities into professions where they are under-represented) are allowed.

Argument by redefinition of terms is intellectually weak and morally questionable. I would have much more respect for the proponents of ideas like this if they would simply admit that they are in favor of some sorts of discrimination.
Seconded.

(p.s. Scot, tried moving away from the headboard and it seemed to work, thanks)

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www.zambiadiaries.blogspot.com

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Nicolemr
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# 28

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getting back to the original post, if you really want to be part of a persecuted minority, yuo don't need to do anything so extreme as change your sexual preferences, you can just convert to islam.

article about skyrocketing hate crimes against muslems.

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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!

Posts: 11803 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Nicolemr
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# 28

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oh, and btw, this paragraph from the article above may put things is some perspective:

quote:
Muslims remain behind blacks, homosexuals and Jews in the numbers of reported hate crimes. There were 2,899 incidents against blacks in 2001, about the same as the year before, and just over 1,000 against Jews, down slightly from the year before. Almost 1,400 incidents involved crimes against homosexuals, and whites were targeted in 891 cases, the FBI said.



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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!

Posts: 11803 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Rev per Minute
Shipmate
# 69

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quote:
Originally posted by Scot:
quote:
Originally posted by Rhisiart:
All forms of positive discrimination are illegal under English law: however, some forms of positive action (such as encouraging women or ethnic minorities into professions where they are under-represented) are allowed.

Argument by redefinition of terms is intellectually weak and morally questionable. I would have much more respect for the proponents of ideas like this if they would simply admit that they are in favor of some sorts of discrimination.
The definition comes from statute and case law in English courts (which, for those unfamiliar with the British legal system, means the law of England and Wales but not necessarily that of Scotland). Helping one group is action: if that is at the expense of another group which also needs that help, that is discrimination.
quote:
Originally posted by IBP:
And don't accuse me of 'Daily-mail type assertions', you don't piss around with words like that. Call me a dickhead, but don't use 'daily-mail' against me, it's so cheapening.

Apologies - although it says something about the level of journalism here when comparing someone to a daily newspaper is worse than calling them names!

quote:
Please don't assume that I am against positive action, I am not, but it is difficult to find a philosophical standpoint in which you disagree with discrimination, and yet agree with positive 'action' of the type shown by my university. This is a philosophical argument, not a real one.

Positive action almost always disadvantages one group, and that is not a good thing (but it may be necessary)

If it does disadvantage another group - were there places denied to men because of the bursary scheme offered to women? If so, it may have been discrimination. If, however, these were extra places which were funded in order to improve women's participation, then the men did not lose out.

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"Allons-y!" "Geronimo!" "Oh, for God's sake!" The Day of the Doctor

At the end of the day, we face our Maker alongside Jesus. RIP ken

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ChastMastr
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# 716

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quote:
Originally posted by IntellectByProxy:
I think I am about an 80 hetty, that is I don't want to have sex with a guy, but the idea doesn't bother me, and I think some men are very good looking.

(Adds a waffle iron to the toaster, and throws in a tea-towel set.)

quote:
Originally posted by golden key:
Ah, is that the current recruitment reward? [Wink]

(Thinking of an episode of "Ellen".)

Yes.

You will also, of course, need a copy of the Gay Agenda, should you decide to Join Us.

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My essays on comics continuity: http://chastmastr.tumblr.com/tagged/continuity

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Degs

Friend of dorothy
# 2824

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quote:
Originally posted by ChastMastr:
You will also, of course, need a copy of the Gay Agenda, should you decide to Join Us.

Who told them about my work routine? [Wink]

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The preest when he hath sayd and red all: he gyueth the benedyccion upon all those that be there present and then he doth tourne hym from the people retournynge thyther from whens he came.

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Merseymike
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# 3022

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Why do some people try and minimise the known discrimination faced by black and gay people by placing all sorts of red herrings into the picture?

Homophobia and racism exists, and trying to dismiss it by talking about 'political correctness' is always something I am suspicious of

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Christianity is not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be experienced

Posts: 3360 | From: Walked the plank | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Elizabeth Anne

Altar Girl
# 3555

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quote:
Originally posted by Merseymike:
Why do some people try and minimise the known discrimination faced by black and gay people by placing all sorts of red herrings into the picture?

I wrote a paper on this topic a short time ago and I came to the conclusion that......I don't know. Or, rather, there is no one certain answer. There is the conservative idea that discrimination is "not that bad" and that all people should be able to help themselves without any assistance from such things as affirmative action and other such programs. This is flawed because it ignores the power structure in which certain groups of people have advantages over others. Pretending that this structure doesn't exist will not make it go away. In fact, it upholds it.

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Born under a bad sign with a blue moon in my eyes...

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IntellectByProxy

Larger than you think
# 3185

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quote:
Originally posted by Rhisiart:
If it does disadvantage another group - were there places denied to men because of the bursary scheme offered to women? If so, it may have been discrimination. If, however, these were extra places which were funded in order to improve women's participation, then the men did not lose out.

No extra places were funded because of, or through the initiative. Incidentally no extra women arrived (compared to previous years) either. All that happened was that it gave pedants like me amunition for our everybody-hates-us-nobody-loves-us-we-will-just-have-to-go-outsided-and-eats-worms agenda.

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www.zambiadiaries.blogspot.com

Posts: 3482 | From: The opposite | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
IntellectByProxy

Larger than you think
# 3185

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quote:
Originally posted by Merseymike:
Why do some people try and minimise the known discrimination faced by black and gay people by placing all sorts of red herrings into the picture?

Homophobia and racism exists, and trying to dismiss it by talking about 'political correctness' is always something I am suspicious of

No red herrings, discrimination is discrimination whether it's faced by gay people, or black people, or white people or straight people. Or even bisexual transvestites with a penchant for tapestries and wode.

I don't understand why you think people are trying to dismiss 'phobias and 'isms by talking about political correctness - they are two separate things.

An example.
If I were racist I would hate black people. I do not hate black people.

If I were politically correct I would call a black person (according to my do-it-yourself inclusive language pamphlet I had to study for a student job at university) a 'coloured person' which almost every black person I know finds offensive and patronising.

The problem with political correctness is not that it masks racism or phobia, but that it forces the labelling of people.

Scot made the point earlier that he cannot fullfil
his quota of required black sub-contractors because he doesn't actively seek them out by colour, if he were politically correct he would seek them out by colour which would therefore make him discriminatory and racist.

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www.zambiadiaries.blogspot.com

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coffee jim
Shipmate
# 3510

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Dear Intellect,
That whole 'we're all bisexual' thang is so passe. Do you fantasise about men more than once every few years? Could you get it up for a guy? Yes? Then you're bisexual.No? Then you're a 'hetty'. It's perfectly possible to be a 'straight man' without wanting to puke at the thought of gay sex, or having hangups about thinking another man is beautiful.

Posts: 367 | From: Belfast | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
John Donne

Renaissance Man
# 220

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quote:
Originally posted by chukovsky:
Most adults don't get beaten to a pulp for holding hands with their significant other in public. Has this ever happened to a straight man?

Well surprisingly, violence due to heterosexual bias does happen... I was at a commemoration of the International Day of Remembrance of Transsexual and Transgender people on 20 Nov, when statistics were read out on hate crimes. They were US Dept of Justice stats for 1995. (Strange choice of stats but that was all that was available on the net apparently).

The 17 incidents of violence among 7,947 against heterosexual people caused the gay gentleman and myself to ponder, was it: 'I'm going to whip you with my handbag, girlfriend!' ? Yes I know, we are tasteless, inappropriate and political incorrect.

[The point of the exercise was to look at murders (none known due to heterosexual violence btw), which numbered 20 offences and consider the likelihood that murders of transsexual and transgender people (cf. 15 in the US alone since 20 Nov 2001) killed in hate crimes were likely to be unrecognised or hidden among the stats].

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tomb
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# 174

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quote:
Originally posted by IntellectByProxy:
....If I were racist I would hate black people. I do not hate black people.

Actually, IBP, this isn't necessarily the case. Hate isn't necessary for racism. Being aware of a person's differences from yourself and judging that person on that basis is racism/sexism/whateverthefuckism.

Next time you encounter a person you perceive--for whatever reason--to be "different" from yourself and you expect that person to act or behave in a particular fashion based on YOUR perception--then you're an " 'xxx'-ist." Or an " 'xxx'-phobe." You get the drift.

quote:
Originally posted by IntellectByProxy:
If I were politically correct I would call a black person (according to my do-it-yourself inclusive language pamphlet I had to study for a student job at university) a 'coloured person' which almost every black person I know finds offensive and patronising.

Well that's the biggest pile of horseshit I've read in a long while. If you were really being "politically correct," presumably you would have enough intelligence to apprise yourself of a person's--or group's--preferred appelation, then use it. Thinking that "coloured person" is somehow less offensive because of some twisted assumptions you have made--or, dear God, read in a booklet--about what constitutes "political correctness" is just plain stupid.

It seems to me that the first step to becoming political correct is "getting a clue."

But the real test to card-carrying true-believer political correctness, IBP, is when you become convinced that somebody or some group different from you actually has something to teach you. And then you set out to discover and actually celebrate what that might be because you know that your life will be enriched thereby.

That's political fucking correctness.

[ 27. November 2002, 06:38: Message edited by: tomb ]

Posts: 5039 | From: Denver, Colorado | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Unkl Davy
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# 2777

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quote:
Originally posted by Karl - Liberal Backslider:

It's not that you (and me) get perks. It's that we don't get particular types of shit.

So what's so special about gay shit compared to MY shit? I've had tons of shit shoveled on me. People like YOU even still shit on me. I had a really shitty time in junior high and hi school cuz the bullies loved to dump shit on me.

However, just cuz I'm white and straight, I'm told my shit is sweeter than the rest.

I think that's a bunch of shit.

(Damn, I'm sounding like Erin.)

Posts: 216 | From: Silicon Valley | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
Degs

Friend of dorothy
# 2824

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Unkl Davey, I think the difference comes when some people's shit (and not just gay people's) is dished out by society and the insttutions that govern and regulate society.

You got beaten up at school, so did others who have posted. I got beaten up because I'm gay when I was a student, badly. It's the reason I have to wear glasses.

But when the 'bully' is society (and even the Church) then that's a different matter.

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The preest when he hath sayd and red all: he gyueth the benedyccion upon all those that be there present and then he doth tourne hym from the people retournynge thyther from whens he came.

Posts: 2388 | From: a land that I heard of once in a lullaby | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76

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Spare me Unkl Davy - exactly how do "people like me" shit on you?

Points you will have to cover:

* Exactly how you know what "people like me" are like, given you don't know me from Adam.

* How people of this currently undefined type shit on you.

* Why this shit is in any way comparable to the wholesale prejudice and hatred sometimes experienced by gay and black people.

Or are you still smarting that I won't worship at the shrine of Josh McDowell?

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76

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quote:
I'm sounding like Erin.)
[Killing me]

Oh, and you're not even beginning to sound like Erin. You have to have a point, first. Or a clue.

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

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Robert Armin

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# 182

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[Tangent] The impression I get from films, TV and this thread is that US schools are far more violent than than UK establishments. From my limited perspective I don't think getting beaten up is a common hazard in the UK - it happens, but I don't think it's common - whereas I get the picture that it's a daily occurence across the Atlantic. Have I got the picture wrong about over there, or am I hopelessly naive about over here? [/Tangent]

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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin

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Erin
Meaner than Godzilla
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Karl, you say the sweetest things.

The Wanderer, here are some statistics about violence in American schools. It looks like the average is about 12~15% of students who report ANY sort of victimization (not necessarily assault and battery).

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Commandment number one: shut the hell up.

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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76

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Wanderer - probably both. It was a daily possibility for me. I am a little suspicious of statistics on the grounds that this sort of thing goes unreported. I doubt there's some "school violence" gene with a higher frequency in the US. You're probably less likely to find a UK school kid with a gun, but that's down to ownership laws; a seperate issue altogether.

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

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simon 2
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I too got smack downs at school for a long time, till I swapped schools and decided I was going to be one of the cool kids and was from then on.

My brother experienced postitive discrimination when apllying for university in the UK. He applied to a good engineering dept and was given a high acceptence offer, while a girl we knew was given a really low acceptance offer from the same dept. Now this might not be out of the ordinary, if it was not for the fact that my brother is a very talented individual and the girl involved was not. I have a slight insight into the method used for making offers at unis and would say where there is a lack of female applicants it is very possible that girls are given prefferential treatment.

There is also prefferential treatment for students from state schools (which is a good thing), the reason being (I speak for the dept I work in only) is that if a student can achieve straight A grades at a 'bog standard comp' then chances are they are brighter than somebody who was hot housed at Eton or Harrow. BTW such prefferential treatment does not seem to have had much effect on our intake [Smile]

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sorry for my spelling and bad gramma

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IntellectByProxy

Larger than you think
# 3185

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quote:
Originally posted by tomb:
quote:

If I were politically correct I would call a black person (according to my do-it-yourself inclusive language pamphlet I had to study for a student job at university) a 'coloured person' which almost every black person I know finds offensive and patronising.

Well that's the biggest pile of horseshit I've read in a long while. If you were really being "politically correct," presumably you would have enough intelligence to apprise yourself of a person's--or group's--preferred appelation, then use it. Thinking that "coloured person" is somehow less offensive because of some twisted assumptions you have made--or, dear God, read in a booklet--about what constitutes "political correctness" is just plain stupid.

It seems to me that the first step to becoming political correct is "getting a clue."

But the real test to card-carrying true-believer political correctness, IBP, is when you become convinced that somebody or some group different from you actually has something to teach you. And then you set out to discover and actually celebrate what that might be because you know that your life will be enriched thereby.

That's political fucking correctness.

Tomb, I may be misjudging the tone of your post, and I hope I am, but I am pretty offended by this.

The 'biggest pile of horseshit you've read in a while' is the biggest pile of horseshit I have EVER read. I used it in my post as an illustration of how bollocks institutionalised 'political correctness' actually is; how it is impossible and damaging to proscribe labels to people. My post was in response to a society that tries to give me a big bag of labels to stick on people.

You obviously don't read very well, or had not bothered to take the time to do so, and you insult my intelligence in a way which almost (but not entirely) makes me fail to have much respect for your post.

I do not ever assume a label is offensive or otherwise, insomuch as I use labels (which is hardly ever) I use the one which is acceptable to the person I am addressing. No 'twisted assumptions' are ever made. You however have made twisted assumtions about me, which you can merrily stick up your arse.

It is intellectually weak to shoot from the hip, as you have done, and I would have expected better.

I say again, my post was to illustrate how bollocks the attempt to create a standard political correctness is. I was using the 'pamphlet' example as an ironic device to show that the very drive for political correctness is itself manifesting racism.

True non-xxx-ism is in recognising our differences and not be prejudiced by them. If you have any disagreement with that then feel free to share it, but don't insult my intelligence.

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www.zambiadiaries.blogspot.com

Posts: 3482 | From: The opposite | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
IntellectByProxy

Larger than you think
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Incidentally, I read in a copy of 'The Sun' I picked up on the train this morning (no, honestly, I really DID pick it up on the train) that the governments 'diversity and inclusion' watchdog has banned the use of the word 'homosexuality' as it is offensive to people who are, well, homosexual.

Now gay people officially have to be referred to as 'people who manifest attractions to their own genital group' or something equally fatuous.

Now I find that offensive (but then, I'm not gay so can't really comment)

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www.zambiadiaries.blogspot.com

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Degs

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quote:
Originally posted by IntellectByProxy:
Incidentally, I read in a copy of 'The Sun' I picked up on the train this morning (no, honestly, I really DID pick it up on the train) that the governments 'diversity and inclusion' watchdog has banned the use of the word 'homosexuality' as it is offensive to people who are, well, homosexual.

Now gay people officially have to be referred to as 'people who manifest attractions to their own genital group' or something equally fatuous.

Now I find that offensive (but then, I'm not gay so can't really comment)

Well, I'm not offended by it, but it is pretty pathetic.

If the government are so concerned about not causing offence perhaps they'd like to bin Section 28!!

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The preest when he hath sayd and red all: he gyueth the benedyccion upon all those that be there present and then he doth tourne hym from the people retournynge thyther from whens he came.

Posts: 2388 | From: a land that I heard of once in a lullaby | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76

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It's also not actually what is in the paper. It may be The Sun's version, but that's not the best source of information.

I am actively attempting to ascertain what the truth of the matter is, but back issues of the Independent are no longer online as far as I can find; I remember reading something about it there. All I can recall is that it was not what IbP is saying.

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460

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quote:
Originally posted by IntellectByProxy:
Incidentally, I read in a copy of 'The Sun' I picked up on the train this morning (no, honestly, I really DID pick it up on the train) that the governments 'diversity and inclusion' watchdog has banned the use of the word 'homosexuality' as it is offensive to people who are, well, homosexual.

Which government publication says this?

They are all on line these days, it shouldn't be hard for someone clever enough to think that the Sun is a newspaper to find it with a search engine.

Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
SWAT (aka the former Mr PInk)
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The same story appeared in that leading bastion of reasonableness the Mail too who of course gave it their own special twist.

As to be being attracted to someone of my own gential group fine but my experience the dangly thing in the middle is ususal the last thing on my mind when I go looking for a mate. All this about size is bollox ('cus the pun) there are other ways to have sex and I've always been a quality over quanity (hence one of the reasons I relaised my true true sexual prefence as I was pretty crap at the hetrosexual version.

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"That's sooooooooooooo"

Posts: 65 | From: Croydon | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76

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Found it:

here

This is that actual story.

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76

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I should add that the next day's paper carried an editorial by a gay man here. explaining some of the background and surrounding issue.

I wonder what The Sun's version of the story was?

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Gill H

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# 68

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Otpotts? (Insert your own Lancashire joke here.)

Having just gone through 'diversity training' at work, this seems to illustrate what we were taught was 'The Platinum Rule'. The Golden Rule (treat others as you would like them to treat you) assumes that others want to be treated in that way. (For example, if someone in the office was offering round biscuits, I'd like to be included in the offer. But my colleague who is observing Ramadan would rather he wasn't.)

The Platinum Rule says 'treat others as they wish to be treated'.

Now OK, I can see that this has all sorts of implications (how would a burglar wish to be treated?), but it's not a bad place to start.

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*sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.

- Lyda Rose

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Ginga
Ship's lurker
# 1899

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quote:
Originally posted by Gill H:
Otpotts?

Its a rather unhelpful (though often appropriate) anagram.
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IntellectByProxy

Larger than you think
# 3185

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quote:
Originally posted by Degs:
If the government are so concerned about not causing offence perhaps they'd like to bin Section 28!!

I must admit to being very ignorant of this [Embarrassed] , can you explain what Section 28 covers, and why it is objectionable please...?
Posts: 3482 | From: The opposite | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged



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