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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Eccles: Papal Coronation / MW 1008: Papal Coronation
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tomb
Shipmate
# 174
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leetle Masha:
quote:
these folks have racial memories of the Romans gutting them out in the circuses to the tune of water-pressure organs. I'm not surprised that when it comes to instrument building, they're a bit conflicted.
Oh, Tomb...that explains everything.
As an Orthodox Christian, I think I will now make a Novena to St. Healey Willan asking that when the Church is finally one again, the Sistine Choir be prohibited in perpetuum from using any form of Znamenny Chant.
Tone deaf after only a few days of this stuff,
Leetle M.
Well, honey, you're preaching to the choir on that one. You've gotta understand, however, that when your champion dies, the signals given off are somewhat ambiguous about his successors.
Inasmuch as the Sistina has, by papal edict, the right to sing any liturgy presided over by the Pope, intercessions to Toronto saints may not get you too far.
Query: I didn't know that Orthodox Christians sullied themselves with such western innovations as Novenas. Perhaps you're one of those western converts who has been inadequately chatechised? If so, you have more problems on your plate than worrying about the next Bishop of Rome. Wait until the Klobuk Enforcers show up on your doorstep.
Posts: 5039 | From: Denver, Colorado | Registered: May 2001
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Leetle Masha
Cantankerous Anchoress
# 8209
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Posted
quote:
I didn't know that Orthodox Christians sullied themselves with such western innovations as Novenas.
Just a little inside joke among us Sergianist-Ecumenist heretics, Tomb. I know, "Is Outrage!™"
Leetle M.
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eleison me, tin amartolin: have mercy on me, the sinner
Posts: 6351 | From: Hesychia, in Hyperdulia | Registered: Aug 2004
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Trisagion
Shipmate
# 5235
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by tomb:
Hate to burst your bubble about the Mass setting, but it wasn't Cum Jubilo (ix For Feasts of the Blessed Virgin 1); it was De Angelis (viii. For Doubles). It's the only one that the Sistine Choir knows (trust me on this). Both were inappropriate. It should have been Lux et Origo (i. in Paschal time). NB: They did Credo iii; s/h/b i.
Tomb, are we talking about the same Mass. I have just listened to my recording of the Mass in the Sistina and it sure sounded like Cum Jubilo to me. If it wasn't, then what it certainly wasn't was De Angelis.
quote:
And Marini, the Master of Ceremonies for St. Peter's, who choreographed so many of JPII's dog and pony shows, was NOT IN EVIDENCE for any of the masses.
Except for the Papal Funeral and the Mass in the Sistina, as this picture shows.
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ceterum autem censeo tabula delenda esse
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FCB
Hillbilly Thomist
# 1495
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Trisagion:
Tomb, are we talking about the same Mass. I have just listened to my recording of the Mass in the Sistina and it sure sounded like Cum Jubilo to me.
Agreed. I'm pretty sure of this because Cum Jubilo and the Requiem setting are the only ones I know, and I was humming along.
FCB
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Agent of the Inquisition since 1982.
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Magic Wand
Shipmate
# 4227
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Posted
The rite is up on the web here.
Is this part newly revised?
Al Santo Padre prestano "obbedienza" una rappresentanza di dodici persone: tre Cardinali, un Vescovo, un Presbitero, un Diacono, due Religiosi, due Sposi, due ragazzi cresimati, provenienti da varie parti del mondo.
which I translate as:
The "obedience" is presented to the Holy Father by twelve representative persons: Three Cardinals, a Bishop, a Priest, a Deacon, two religious, two married persons, and two confirmed boys from the several parts of the world.
I don't know enough about what happened in 1978 to say.
Posts: 371 | From: Princeton, NJ | Registered: Mar 2003
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Corpus cani
Ship's Anachronism
# 1663
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Magic Wand:
... and two confirmed boys from the several parts of the world.
Does this mean the same as "confirmed bachelor" (i.e. these boys will always be boys) or does it mean that it has been confirmed that they are boys? If the latter, how did they confirm it? ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Corpus
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Bishop Lord Corpus Cani the Tremulous of Buzzing St Helens.
Posts: 4435 | From: Trumpton | Registered: Nov 2001
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Leetle Masha
Cantankerous Anchoress
# 8209
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Posted
![[Biased]](wink.gif) Corpus.... chrismated boys.
Orthodoxy helps me with my Italian. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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eleison me, tin amartolin: have mercy on me, the sinner
Posts: 6351 | From: Hesychia, in Hyperdulia | Registered: Aug 2004
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Newman's Own
Shipmate
# 420
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Posted
My Italian is fine, but perhaps too colloquial. What on earth is obedience?
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Cheers,
Elizabeth
“History as Revelation is seldom very revealing, and histories of holiness are full of holes.” - Dermot Quinn
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Leetle Masha
Cantankerous Anchoress
# 8209
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Posted
Newman's Own asks quite rightly:
quote:
What on earth is obedience?
I'd need to give that further study and get back to you.... ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Leetle M.
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eleison me, tin amartolin: have mercy on me, the sinner
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Newman's Own
Shipmate
# 420
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Posted
Perhaps it is a liturgical obeisance or something... ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Any lack of clarity about a definition of sheer 'obedience' I'm sure should remain an eternal mystery... though, with Benedict, I have a feeling that we're about to find out...
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Cheers,
Elizabeth
“History as Revelation is seldom very revealing, and histories of holiness are full of holes.” - Dermot Quinn
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Corpus cani
Ship's Anachronism
# 1663
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leetle Masha:
Corpus.... chrismated boys.
Well thank heavens for that
Corpus
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Bishop Lord Corpus Cani the Tremulous of Buzzing St Helens.
Posts: 4435 | From: Trumpton | Registered: Nov 2001
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Chapelhead*
Ship’s Photographer
# 1143
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Posted
Not "oiled young men" then?
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Benedikt Gott Geschickt!
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Midnight Scholar
Shipmate
# 9112
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Corpus cani:
quote:
Originally posted by Magic Wand:
... and two confirmed boys from the several parts of the world.
Does this mean the same as "confirmed bachelor" (i.e. these boys will always be boys) or does it mean that it has been confirmed that they are boys? If the latter, how did they confirm it?
Corpus
If my Italian hasn't entirely deserted me, I think 'ragazzi' means 'children' rather than 'boys' - as so often, the masculine plural is taken to include the feminine. (Ragazze (fem. plur.) would be 'girls' specifically, since the feminine doesn't include the masculine.) On the same principle a crowd of 200 women and one man is referred to in French as 'ils', only a female-only group qualifying as 'elles'.
This is how many of the Romance languages work
Or maybe this is wishful thinking and I'm merely hoping it doesn't mean they have to be boys. The preceding noun (sposi) certainly isn't sex specific.
midnight
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Men are from Earth. Women are from Earth.
Deal with it.
Posts: 129 | From: out there | Registered: Feb 2005
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Leetle Masha
Cantankerous Anchoress
# 8209
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Posted
quote:
Not 'oiled young men'?
Hehe! Anointed does mean oiled, Chapelhead, but not in the sense that we've been thinking of when attempting to lubricate Gort.
Masher
Oh, and Elizabeth, Yes, I'm sure we'll be among the first to find out what "obedience" is....
[ 23. April 2005, 02:25: Message edited by: Leetle Masha ]
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eleison me, tin amartolin: have mercy on me, the sinner
Posts: 6351 | From: Hesychia, in Hyperdulia | Registered: Aug 2004
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Newman's Own
Shipmate
# 420
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by 103 (One-O-Three):
Is the MC an ordained priest too? I thought it looked like he had a clerical collar! Who is he??? and I wonder where he is from?
Perhaps we ought to make some Vatican Top Trump cards!
I finally found a clear picture of the MC to which I was referring here - he is standing to John Paul's left. Lord have mercy, what a handsome man! He obviously is a priest - perhaps a bishop - but I'm embarrassed to say I've forgotten his name (though we once met).
The Newman's Own Fanciability Rating is a fine idea for the Trump Cards. (John XXIII as a 'four' actually is generous - John Paul II would be an 8 or so, except that I've never quite fancied Slavic men.) How sad that the only 20th century 10 is Pius X...
[Tidied code]
[ 23. April 2005, 15:56: Message edited by: Anselmina ]
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Cheers,
Elizabeth
“History as Revelation is seldom very revealing, and histories of holiness are full of holes.” - Dermot Quinn
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Illustrissimi
Apprentice
# 9296
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Posted
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Magic Wand:
[QB] The rite is up on the web here.
If you do a Google translation of the page from Italian, it comes up with the following sort of thing (hehe): "The Saint Padre laughed them in Basilica and joins to the processione of income. Reaching in Saint public square Peter, the concelebranti, after venerato the Altar, they kiss it and everyone catches up just the place."
Even funnier is the translation of B16's address to the Cardinals: "Venera You Siblings Cardinals!... To the intense emotions tried in occasion of the dead women of mine venerato predecessore Giovanni Paul II and then during the Conclave and above all to its epilogue add an intimate need of Hush and two feelings between complementary they: an alive desire of the heart ringraziare and a sense of human impotence..." Oh! I love technology!! ![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif)
Posts: 6 | From: Portsmouth | Registered: Apr 2005
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Trisagion
Shipmate
# 5235
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Posted
quote:
quote:
Originally posted by Newman's Own:
Is the MC an ordained priest too? I thought it looked like he had a clerical collar! Who is he??? and I wonder where he is from?
Perhaps we ought to make some Vatican Top Trump cards!
I finally found a clear picture of the MC to which I was referring here - he is standing to John Paul's left. Lord have mercy, what a handsome man! He obviously is a priest - perhaps a bishop - but I'm embarrassed to say I've forgotten his name (though we once met).
It's Archbishop Piero Marini, Papal MC.
[Tidied code.]
[ 23. April 2005, 15:58: Message edited by: Anselmina ]
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ceterum autem censeo tabula delenda esse
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Magic Wand
Shipmate
# 4227
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Posted
quote:
It's Archbishop Piero Marini, Papal MC.
But hopefully not for long...
Alas I'm probably foolish to think that things will turn in an even slightly more traditional direction, but one can hope. And dumping Marini would be a giant step in that direction.
Posts: 371 | From: Princeton, NJ | Registered: Mar 2003
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Newman's Own
Shipmate
# 420
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Posted
Thank you, Trisagion. I'm horribly embarrassed that I could meet and speak with Archbishop Marini, yet be so taken with his fanciability rating (10) that I forgot his name and rank. ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif) Not to mention that I've seen him 'from a distance' or in television reports on countless occasions.
Wand, may I ask a bit more about how +Marini's tenure has caused liturgical difficulties? I'd be very interested - and this strikes me as a place where others would be as well. (I had noticed, of course, that for years he had to discreetly assist John Paul to maintain the dignity of his bearing in a long period of severely ill health.)
[ 23. April 2005, 16:02: Message edited by: Newman's Own ]
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Cheers,
Elizabeth
“History as Revelation is seldom very revealing, and histories of holiness are full of holes.” - Dermot Quinn
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Illustrissimi
Apprentice
# 9296
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Posted
Why? The archbishop always strikes me as being pretty trad.
Posts: 6 | From: Portsmouth | Registered: Apr 2005
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
Uh, back to the opening post...
My Italian is next to nonexistent, but the Vatican web site seems to be calling it the Imposition of the Pallium, Delivery of the Fisherman's Ring, and the Beginning of the Petrine Ministry of the Bishop of Rome. Have I got that right? Not a coronation at all.
Maybe the German Shepherd will be more loveable than some fear.
I know what a pallium is, but with which Pallium will he be invested?
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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Newman's Own
Shipmate
# 420
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Posted
This article from Yahoo provides a nice summary.
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Cheers,
Elizabeth
“History as Revelation is seldom very revealing, and histories of holiness are full of holes.” - Dermot Quinn
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Dumbledore wannabe
Shipmate
# 9310
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Posted
Marini is excellent. He made a lot of traditionalists angry by letting native "expressions" into papal masses. He taught liturgy at the house where I lived and studied. He really is one of the best.
[Removed possibly libelous comments]
[ 23. April 2005, 23:01: Message edited by: jlg ]
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Max.
Shipmate
# 5846
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Illustrissimi:
Why? The archbishop always strikes me as being pretty trad.
Because, If NO get's her way, he'll have to leave the priesthood to marry her
-103
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For the sake of His sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.
Posts: 9716 | From: North Yorkshire | Registered: May 2004
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Leetle Masha
Cantankerous Anchoress
# 8209
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Posted
quote:
If NO get's her way, he'll have to leave the priesthood to marry her
Yeah, 103, she saw him first, and fair's fair.... ![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
Leetle M.
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eleison me, tin amartolin: have mercy on me, the sinner
Posts: 6351 | From: Hesychia, in Hyperdulia | Registered: Aug 2004
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Dumbledore wannabe
Shipmate
# 9310
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Posted
All I seem to do is say "Mea maxima culpa" here. Perhaps all the shipmates should chant a good Dies Irae, boot me out, and extinguish some candles upside-down for me. (I do love good liturgy). I'm sure it would be done perfectly.
To Simon, and our hosts - I really am sorry for putting you at risk for my
"Removed possibly libelous comments".
I assure you they are true, but I totally understand.
"To understand all is to forgive all" (Good "Brideshead Theology")
Nonetheless, I will be very curious to see if you decide it is not libelous.
Albus +
PS Does a new member jump straight to "Shipmate" status for getting the prized [Removed possibly libelous comments]?
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welsh dragon
Shipmate
# 3249
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Posted
So there will be an enthronement, but will there be a coronation?
Posts: 5352 | From: ebay | Registered: Aug 2002
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Max.
Shipmate
# 5846
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leetle Masha:
quote:
If NO get's her way, he'll have to leave the priesthood to marry her
Yeah, 103, she saw him first, and fair's fair....
Leetle M.
Wrong Age, Wrong sex and spoken for!
-103
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For the sake of His sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.
Posts: 9716 | From: North Yorkshire | Registered: May 2004
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Corpus cani
Ship's Anachronism
# 1663
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by 103 (One-O-Three):
Wrong Age, Wrong sex and spoken for!
Now I'm completely confused. Does this refer to NO, you or the Archbishop?!? ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
Cc
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Archbishop Paddy O'Laud
Apprentice
# 9294
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Posted
The Papal Tiara was sold off after Paul VI - one is not confected for succeeding Popes. It was, I believe, bought by the Knights of Columbus [American version of the Irish Knights of Saint Columbanus] and resides at the Cathedral near their offices and for which they pay big bucks to maintain annually. The cathedral that is - not the tiara. Having lost cash with an Irish Bookie on the election of Papa Ratzi I still feel confident to bet on the coronation - nope - none! Installation yes.
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Archbishop Paddy O'Laud
Anyone who WANTS to be a Bishop DESERVES to be a Bishop.
[Bishop Thomas Lobsinger D. April 2000]
Posts: 15 | From: In the Frozen North of Canada | Registered: Apr 2005
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Annis
Apprentice
# 9366
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Posted
The Fisherman's Ring is the replacement for the crown.
[ 24. April 2005, 10:45: Message edited by: Annis ]
Posts: 2 | From: UK | Registered: Apr 2005
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FCB
Hillbilly Thomist
# 1495
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Posted
I suppose all the Brits are in Church, so we Yank's will have to weigh in with the first insta-comments.
Here's a few random comments to start us off:
So, what do you tat-mongers think of the new pallium? I like it, but then I have neo-patristic leanings.
Things seemed better organized than the funeral, particularly with regard to communion.
It's good to see the old-style Popemobile back. I never liked the glass-enclosed one.
I thought the homily was very good. I was particularly struck by his comment about the net not being whole. A lot of people might think that Benedict's version of ecumenism would be "the net is whole and you prots and orthodox just need to hop in it." His homily would seem to indicate that this is not the case.
I was glad to see that Rowan Williams can sing the Our Father in Latin without having to look at the book (not that I'm really surprised).
I was also glad to see that one of the "oiled young men" was in fact a girl.
Was it just wishful hearing on my part, or did the choir sound better than they did at JP2's funeral?
FCB
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Agent of the Inquisition since 1982.
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Corpus cani
Ship's Anachronism
# 1663
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Posted
Well it was alright. I'd rather have a coronation though. I thought my bit went very well. Bit worried that my wimple might not cover my stubble, which would have blown my cover big time, but I got away with it. ![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
Thought BXVI was fab. Good homily and - wow! He really can smile without looking evil. Do you suppose he's been practising all week?
Frankly, I thought some of the Cardinals looked much more well-oiled than the boys.
Corpus
P.S.
quote:
Originally posted by Archbishop Paddy O'Laud:
The Papal Tiara was sold off after Paul VI -
I think we dealt with this earlier in the thread and decided it is a myth. Or is it a legend?
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Bishop Lord Corpus Cani the Tremulous of Buzzing St Helens.
Posts: 4435 | From: Trumpton | Registered: Nov 2001
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Chapelhead*
Ship’s Photographer
# 1143
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Posted
Isn't the palium given by the Pope to Archbishops he thinks are good eggs (or to all Archbishops)? Presumably Benny would have been given one by Paul VI, so is there a particular significance in him getting one today? The fisherman's ring is clearly significant, but is the palium?
[ 24. April 2005, 12:07: Message edited by: Chapelhead ]
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Benedikt Gott Geschickt!
Posts: 7082 | From: Turbolift Control. | Registered: Aug 2001
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Leetle Masha
Cantankerous Anchoress
# 8209
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Posted
Corpus, in that very confusing post of 103's, apparently he took my suggestion that the papal MC was seen first by NO to apply to him. It didn't. A quote from 103 at the beginning was wrongly attributed to me. All I said was that NO had first claim on the MC. Hope this clears things up.
Leetle M.
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eleison me, tin amartolin: have mercy on me, the sinner
Posts: 6351 | From: Hesychia, in Hyperdulia | Registered: Aug 2004
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FCB
Hillbilly Thomist
# 1495
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chapelhead:
The fisherman's ring is clearly significant, but is the palium?
Apparently. B16 talks about it in his homily.
FCB
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Agent of the Inquisition since 1982.
Posts: 2928 | From: that city in "The Wire" | Registered: Oct 2001
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
Contrary to the opinions expressed so far,and the gushing on the BBC, the homily was the bit in the service that made me really uneasy. B16 started by saying that the entire communion of saints had been invoked three times recently: at JP2's funeral, at the start of the cardinals' election, and now at the inaugral mass. The first occassion showed that JP2 was not alone in his death (a christian is never alone) which was a warm thought. The second occassion showed that the cardinals were guided by the Holy Spirit and all the saints in appointing ME. (Not a warm thought.)
That early reminder that HE was the chosen one coloured everything else for me. It certainly means that I can't see his calls for unity in quite the sunny hues others have done.
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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Fiddleback
Shipmate
# 2809
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Corpus cani:
Well it was alright. I'd rather have a coronation though.
I could be quite wrong on this, but it is my understanding theat in 'ye goode olde days' the coronation took place some weeks/months after the investiture. We can still live in hope, therefore.
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Chapelhead*
Ship’s Photographer
# 1143
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Posted
Perhaps, Like Charles and Camilla, he could opt for a low-key civil ceremony?
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Benedikt Gott Geschickt!
Posts: 7082 | From: Turbolift Control. | Registered: Aug 2001
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Fiddleback:
I could be quite wrong on this, but it is my understanding theat in 'ye goode olde days' the coronation took place some weeks/months after the investiture. We can still live in hope, therefore.
I could be quite wrong on this but I thought they said on the BBC that they'd scrapped it and that there wouldn't be a coronation. They definitely said that the triple crown isn't used any more.
(They also came out with an interesting fact about how the Pope used to have to be preceded by someone with a bundle of flax which he would then set light to, shouting, "Sic transit gloria mundi", as it rapidly disappeared in smoke. Rather a nice touch, I'd have thought. It made me wonder if at the inaugural dinner later, they had someone appearing with a skull between courses and crying, "Memento mori".)
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Sarum Sleuth
Shipmate
# 162
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Posted
They also came out with an interesting fact about how the Pope used to have to be preceded by someone with a bundle of flax which he would then set light to, shouting, "Sic transit gloria mundi", as it rapidly disappeared in smoke.
I believe this cheerful task was allocated to a Franciscan Friar, although it is so long ago that I read this, I could not swear to it.
On a slightly different aspect of the ceremony, did anybody notice that the deacons attending the Pope were wearing collars that were separate from their dalmatics and looked not dissimilar to apparelled amices?
It's nice to see some of St Pecy's ideas followed by Rome...... ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
SS
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The Parson's Handbook contains much excellent advice, which, if it were more generally followed, would bring some order and reasonableness into the amazing vagaries of Anglican Ritualism. Adrian Fortescue
Posts: 848 | From: England, 1549 | Registered: May 2001
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Newman's Own
Shipmate
# 420
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Posted
Text of Benedict's homily
Though I loved his words about the Good Shepherd, I'm glad I was not the only one who was uneasy with hearing Benedict refer to his own election in terms of selecting the one whom God had chosen. I had the sense of all the saints of heaven chiming in... Then again, perhaps he meant more that he counts on their intercession. Benedict's Italian is excellent, but things often come out slightly different than one intended when one is speaking a language other than one's native tongue. (No professor wants such a 'job,' especially at 78, so I imagine he needs to remind himself as well that he was the one the Holy Spirit chose.)
Others might disagree, but I was rather glad that Benedict did not speak of the massive number of political issues confronting the Church - or the Church's possible influence in same. Not that he'll not need to do so later, but I was glad that it was not part of the first homily.
On a thread in Purgatory (which I found immensely helpful), FCB aptly spoke of Benedict's Augustinian emphasis. Yes, I love Augustine - though more when he is in Trinity mode - but Benedict reminded me strongly of him when he referred to the powers of evil.
I'm glad that Leetle Masha has established that I have first pick of the MC.
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Cheers,
Elizabeth
“History as Revelation is seldom very revealing, and histories of holiness are full of holes.” - Dermot Quinn
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Newman's Own
Shipmate
# 420
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Posted
I of course meant 'differently.'
In case it was not obvious, when I said that Benedict perhaps is more counting on the intercession of the saints, I meant that rather wryly. I think he is finding it very comforting and sustaining as he undertakes the massive task - no 'perhaps' about it.
One part I did find strange. I loved John Paul's "Be not afraid!" sermon, and could understand Benedict's reference to this. Yet the ending puzzled me, because he said not to be afraid of Christ.
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Cheers,
Elizabeth
“History as Revelation is seldom very revealing, and histories of holiness are full of holes.” - Dermot Quinn
Posts: 6740 | From: Library or pub | Registered: Jun 2001
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
Has anyone got a link to Ratzinger's homily at JP2's funeral? I'd like to be able to look at it again.
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
There's the one Newman's Own just posted: Vatican link; or the BBC one (pdf), same text, which speaking for myself I find easier to read.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Sarum-mental
Apprentice
# 9300
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Posted
On the whole the homily was well done but like NO I was a bit concerned by the way he made his point with the three litanies--still given how busy everyone has been this last week it's a wonder anyone could put together something of that length in such a cogent manner encompassing the history, the readings and the ritual. Perhaps this was reading too much into his conclusion but I heard "do not be afraid to give yourself over to Christ" but that was listening to the Italian--spoken and speaking as well as the American commentator (the only rebroadcast we had was from the Italian television feed in English a leur facon and fioritura added by three American commentators). For a nice discussion of the pallium try to find a copy of Margaret Visser's (and her husband's)The Geometry of Love (I think that's the title)--she has a section tying the story she tells to the pallium--it goes back to the earliest days of Christian Rome.
Posts: 35 | Registered: Apr 2005
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FCB
Hillbilly Thomist
# 1495
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Newman's Own:
Yet the ending puzzled me, because he said not to be afraid of Christ.
It made perfect sense to me -- the whole "Hound of Heaven" thing.
As for the litany of the saints reference: wouldn't it be strange for B16 to think that his election is not God's will?
I thought the best part was the following:
quote:
The pastor must be inspired by Christ’s holy zeal: for him it is not a matter of indifference that so many people are living in the desert. And there are so many kinds of desert. There is the desert of poverty, the desert of hunger and thirst, the desert of abandonment, of loneliness, of destroyed love. There is the desert of God’s darkness, the emptiness of souls no longer aware of their dignity or the goal of human life. The external deserts in the world are growing, because the internal deserts have become so vast. Therefore the earth’s treasures no longer serve to build God’s garden for all to live in, but they have been made to serve the powers of exploitation and destruction.
Very Augustinian (and I think that's a good thing).
FCB
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Agent of the Inquisition since 1982.
Posts: 2928 | From: that city in "The Wire" | Registered: Oct 2001
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stbruno
Shipmate
# 3505
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Posted
Thank goodness for the Litany of Saints. Most post -Council cathilics would never have encountered this fantastic litany -which like many of the traditional trappings went ut of fashion-or worse were made to be a cause for embrassment. And now the Litany has had three worldwide outings! Hopefully this is one devotion which may come back in- although kneeling on a hard floor for 20 mins or so can be very trying! Was it just me or did the litany end with an appeal to St Benedict?
I loved the pallium-it looked like the kind worn by Popes in the Middle ages-
The Holy Fathers crozier? Is this the same one as used by his predecessor?
Posts: 157 | From: sydney | Registered: Nov 2002
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Pendragon
Ship's swordbearer
# 8759
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Posted
I saw the inaugeration up until the end of the intercessions, when I had to go and be a good Anglican, and thought his homily quite reasonable, and as a result, I ended up leading some prayers for unity in the church this evening.
On the "how nice they all looked" front:
1)Am I the only one who thinks that shots of B16 with his mitre towering over his face are less flattering than the ones with him not wearing it?
2) Did you see the fantastic mantilla the lady standing in the Heads of State congregation next to the altar was wearing?
3) What was the person who read the Greek gospel wearing, other than a lot of gold cloth?
[ETA yes, I liked the Palium as well, once I worked out how it fitted (side view was unhelpful.)]
[ 24. April 2005, 23:44: Message edited by: Pendragon ]
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Not a particuarly GLE
Everything will be OK in the end; if it's not OK it's not the end.
(seen on a fridgemagnet)
Posts: 392 | From: Coventry | Registered: Nov 2004
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