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Source: (consider it) Thread: Purgatory: The Annunaki and extra-terrestrial mythology
Anglican_Brat
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Strange that the people who go on about extraterrestrial influences on ancient culture never seem to publish in academically peer-reviewed journals on Near-eastern societies.
[Smile]

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It's Reformation Day! Do your part to promote Christian unity and brotherly love and hug a schismatic.

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Ad Orientem
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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:

Serious question: have you been reading David Icke?

I was thinking the same thing.
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Penny S
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Search engine work suggests that Icke is not unconnected.
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Doc Tor
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Emily, you do realise that when you say 'from Orion', that's pretty much meaningless?

Orion only looks like Orion because of where we are in the galaxy compared with the other stars. Some of the stars that make up Orion are as distant from each other as they are from us, in the same way that Algeria and South Africa are really close if you look at them from Scotland.

Making patterns of things we see in the sky is a universal human trait. It doesn't mean those patterns have any external significance.

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Forward the New Republic

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Leorning Cniht
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quote:
Originally posted by Emily Windsor-Cragg:

I have archived about 50,000 photo images that prove--to myself--that what I have just stated is true. I don't know of any way or means for me to convince anybody else of anything who wasn't willing to spend the next ten years studying images and manuscripts as I have done.

In most fields of work, it is normal to be able to write a two or three page article that explains, to the non-specialist, the key findings and illustrates the evidence for them. The sort of thing that one might read in Scientific American, for example.

One of the ship's linguists could describe, in a few paragraphs, the evolution of the English language over the past millennium with illustrative examples, without requiring the rest of us to go and do the primary research.

I don't see why your claims are any different. You claim that, by analyzing 50,000 photographs you have evidence that conventional Astronomy is a hoax, and conceals evidence of Anunakis. Fine. Show us two, or three, or half-a-dozen. Explain the conventional interpretation of the image, and show us why that interpretation is wrong.

To give another example of a decade's work in analyzing tens of thousands of pictures, read John Coster-Mullen's book on his reconstruction of Little Boy. He has condensed a decade or so's work into a couple of hours of reading, without leaving anything important out.

quote:

So, I just state what I know, which is, we are lied to by TPTB about nearly everything. That's a game the Elites play against the rest of us.

"Just stating what you 'know'" isn't going to get you very far. You need to show us why you know it.

quote:

But the killer aspect is when we don't know WHAT WE DON'T KNOW. And that's the Game human leadership has been playing against the people -- Not telling us what we don't know so we have to go digging for it ourselves.

Are you Donald Rumsfeld's long-lost sister? [Biased]

Seriously, this doesn't make any sense. How can "human leadership" tell me what I don't know. It - governments or whoever - doesn't know what I don't know.

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EtymologicalEvangelical
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quote:
Originally posted by HughWillRidmee
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief
You need to give us evidence that we can smell, eat, taste, feel, touch, or see, and link it with sound reasoning to your conclusions.

That requirement, if applied consistently, must inevitably lead to atheism must it not?
Well, to philosophical naturalism, in which the existence of God is unknown (although I realise that 'atheism' seems to have been redefined as 'agnosticism').

But, of course, mousethief is wrong to imply that evidence should be limited to an empirical definition. Empiricism is, of course, self-refuting (as no less a person than Bertrand Russell recognised), and if naturalism depends on this epistemological theory, then that philosophy is self-refuting also. Where does that leave atheism, I wonder?

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You can argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome': but you neither can nor need argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome, but I'm not saying this is true'. CS Lewis

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SusanDoris

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quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
I think I get it, though. Emily Windsor-Cragg does not trust any of the well publicised sources because they show the effects of successful suppression of the truth by those who wish to suppress the truth.

<snip>

(Pity she wasn't around for our special "Da Vinci Code" discussion board. That was a fun time with Dan Brown, the Knights Templar, the Priory of Sion, the Holy Blood and the Holy Grail etc. Louise went to town IIRC. Much fun was had by all.)

I missed that one! I have read as far as this post and hope I have picked up correctly the trend of the thread. I wonder whether EEWC has thought of joining the Graham Hancock message boards, where she will find sympathetic views onZechariah Sitchin et al ... although I'll be there as a challenger. [Smile]

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I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

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Golden Key
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Interesting thing I noticed when reading Icke's site:

When I skimmed his site, years ago, he seemed obsessive about making a coherent whole of all his questions--kind of a General Theory of everything. The one section that seemed less so was about childhood sexual abuse. (Against it.) Which got me to thinking about the long-term effects of trauma, and being caught in someone else's lies, and how a survivor makes sense of all that.

I might have been totally off-base, but it seemed like a possibility.

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--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
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Barnabas62
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quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
A couple of years ago, I was posting on a Dutch forum that in the end was overrun by people who argued like Emily. What I always found interesting was their double-edged fascination with Science.

On the one hand, Science is dismissed by them as 'foregone objective conclusions'. On the other hand, they almost crave to be recognised as scientific ('objective, physical, actual data').

Picking up on Leaf's point re gnosis, cultish beliefs can be quite empowering for people who otherwise lack recognition. In the cult, the "outsider" becomes "in with the in-crowd", which seems to breed a certain kind of superiority. new personal significance is found. If this is coupled with a self-enclosing ideology (e.g. mainstream sources are not to be trusted, conspiracy to deceive is everywhere, "we" have a special revelation) the mental prison has two locks; I'm better "inside", I'm safer "inside". Well, if it makes them happy, it can't be that bad. But if it makes them happy, why the hell do they look so sad?

The massive attraction of "The Matrix" seems to have something to say about modern (perhaps I should say postmodern) western culture. Take the red pill. Find out how deep the rabbit hole goes. Welcome to the "real world".

All you have to do is swallow that red pill, folks. But, let's face it. Pills may be hard to swallow, but not nearly as hard to swallow as the suspension of disbelief required to find anything plausible in Emily Windsor-Cragg's linked website. Nothing of significance to be found down that rabbit-hole. Well, at least not about the "real world". What it has to say about Emily Windsor-Cragg is a matter for experts in a rather different field of enquiry. I couldn't possibly comment. Well, not in Purgatory, anyway.

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

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Thyme
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It's all reminding me of the stories that surface occassionally about how the Christian Churches have suppressed the real truth about Jesus, citing various Gnostic Gospels as evidence.

Rowan Williams (Former ABC) nailed it when he said something like: 'The reason these documents disappeared from mainstream Christian sources is not because they were suppressed (they are readily accessible now to anyone with internet access or even access to a bookshop), but because they are a collection of badly written nonsense.'

Anyway, I'm getting a bit confused about whether the Annunaki are the evil overlords screwing with our perceptions or hugely advanced beings that the PTB are trying to prevent us from knowing about. Or both.

But I am a bear of very little brain which is why I don't post much in Purgatory. Mainstream thought isn't always the correct or final answer but this Annunaki stuff (which I've never heard of before) just seems too barking to be worth much mental effort.

I think I'll wait till Emily and her friends have convinced the PTB.

Barnabus 62's question about the enduring power of the extra terrestial myth is interesting, there does seem to be something hardwired in us that finds this idea compelling. I wonder if it is just a way in which our brains interpret that sense that their is something inexplicable about the universe and its workings which religious explain as God.

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The Church in its own bubble has become, at best the guardian of the value system of the nation’s grandparents, and at worst a den of religious anoraks defined by defensiveness, esoteric logic and discrimination. Bishop of Buckingham's blog

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Nicodemia
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These Annuki would be homo erectus then, not homo sapiens?
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SusanDoris

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barnabas62: If this post is too off topic, please delete. thank you.
I turned on Radio 4 yesterday and caught the end of Desert Island discs, where the castaway chose as her book something by David Icke!! I think I'll listen to the repeat on Friday to find out why.

Some years ago I read 'Lost Secrets of the Sacred Ark' by Laurence Gardiner in order to challenge some GH ideas. It stated that gold can be super-heated and turned into a magical white powder which was fed to the AE pharaohs. I followed this up, had an interesting conversation with someone in the Gold Institute (or whatever it was) who was pleased to have a change from the usual enquiry of how much their gold was worth.; also I checked out all web sites claiming to supply this powder! Quite a few led back to David I cke's site. My efforts were in vain, however, because thpostter(s) concerned on GH still believed.

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I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

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Marvin the Martian

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The Annunaki are REAL! I was a skeptic, but then the kind chap who lives in the local underpass offered to show me the TRUTH and when I woke up and dried off from the ice bath he'd left me in (apparently extreme cold shorts out the Illuminati tracking chip they implant in everyone at birth) I could hear the beautiful song of the wonderful travellers from Orion! To think it was being blocked by my fillings - DENTISTRY IS PART OF THE CONSPIRACY, PEOPLE!!!

The One World Government conceals the truth about the Annunaki, but not well enough. Someone found out at the start of the last century - King Edward VIII and his brother Adolf. When it became clear that the Cabal would never allow the Truth to be disseminated the latter even hid a clue to it in the name of his political party - AnnuNAKI/NAZI - coincidence? HA! You have been deceived my FRIEND! The whole of WW2 was fought to make sure that THAT clue would never AGAIN be seen!

Ia, Ia - they come AT last! Earth Government hides ALL truth! The pyramids are PROOF! NASA is lying to you! The Earth is NOT FLAT! The Annunaki will return! The Labyrinth has you! I am the Minotaur! Take the RED pill! THE cake is A lie! WE aLl live in A YELLOW subMARine! THE CAKE IS A LIE!!!

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Hail Gallaxhar

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Alaric the Goth
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[Overused]
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Barnabas62
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[Killing me]

(Wipes coffee splutters off keyboard)

Thanks Marvin. I needed that.

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

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Golden Key
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Marvin's post reminds me of Umberto Eco's Foucault's Pendulum.

Basically, people purposely make up a fake conspiracy theory. They think it's funny. Then things start happening. Things get so confusing that they don't know whether things are really happening, or they've gone crazy, or a mixture of both.

It was, frankly, the bleakest book I've ever read. Some people take it as pure satire. ISTM there was some humor in it, but not much.

When I finished it, I didn't want to read anything else ever again. The only thing that *might* get me to read it is if I read up on Kabbalah, because I got a feeling it was subtly worked into the story. (I've read another novel--Dante's Equation--that worked its way openly through...is it the Tree of Life? And Katherine Neville's The Eight has some interesting things worked into that very haunting book.)

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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LeRoc

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quote:
Anglican_Brat: Strange that the people who go on about extraterrestrial influences on ancient culture never seem to publish in academically peer-reviewed journals on Near-eastern societies.
[Smile]

These journals are controlled by The Elite. Duh.

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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)

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LeRoc

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quote:
Doc Tor: Emily, you do realise that when you say 'from Orion', that's pretty much meaningless?
That's what they want you to believe...

People like Emily can explain almost anything away like part of a Conspiracy. Of course, the Conspiracy needs to get bigger and bigger to accomodate for all the discrepancies, but I bet she's happy to live with that. It makes her all the more special because she sees through the Conspiracy.

[ 20. May 2013, 10:40: Message edited by: LeRoc ]

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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)

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Pomona
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The Elite have even infected our movies! Nothing is safe!

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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]

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Thyme
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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
The Real Truth

Thank you Marvin for enduring such physical torment to lead us to the truth.

As you represent the PTB here I am now a believer.
[Overused]

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The Church in its own bubble has become, at best the guardian of the value system of the nation’s grandparents, and at worst a den of religious anoraks defined by defensiveness, esoteric logic and discrimination. Bishop of Buckingham's blog

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Eutychus
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He is clearly in error, because that should read SHEEPLE not PEOPLE.

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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

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Marvin the Martian

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quote:
Originally posted by Thyme:
As you represent the PTB here I am now a believer.

NOOOOOO - don't start believing until you've shorted out your tracking chip! THEY will find you and BRAINwash you again, over and over, always with the goddamn brainwashing guys, really it's getting old now so just stop ok? Nothing can prevent the TRUTH except for the FORCES of DARK. DARK is the absence of LIGHT, which means there isn't anything brightening up the place where you are did your candle blow out OMG YOUR CANDLE BLEW OUT. Prepare for the dugongs, for they come at night in the DARK. My new fillings said so. These ones AREn't a conspiracy. They're made of iron. Good, dependable iron from OrION - coincidence? HA! You have been deceived my FRIEND!. I am he who knows the truth because of iron in my tooth.

We are ALL star children FROM Beetlejoos. DO not believe THE lies. All is LIES. I AM THE walrus.

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Hail Gallaxhar

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Penny S
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Except Emily, who is from Lyra. But, I think, deserving of the same HGTTG assessment as the Earth.

Marvin, I am in total admiration of your ability to do that!

SusanDoris, what is GH?

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Thyme
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Marvin has unmasked himself! His disguise has vanished. The clue was always in his screen name. HE IS A MARTIAN! And probably a Lizard as well.

It all makes so much sense now.

[ 20. May 2013, 11:56: Message edited by: Thyme ]

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The Church in its own bubble has become, at best the guardian of the value system of the nation’s grandparents, and at worst a den of religious anoraks defined by defensiveness, esoteric logic and discrimination. Bishop of Buckingham's blog

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Mr Clingford
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quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
...SusanDoris, what is GH?

I think she is referring to Graham Hancock who is a writer of pseudo-history.

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Ne'er cast a clout till May be out.

If only.

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Holy Smoke
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quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
Picking up on Leaf's point re gnosis, cultish beliefs can be quite empowering for people who otherwise lack recognition. In the cult, the "outsider" becomes "in with the in-crowd", which seems to breed a certain kind of superiority. new personal significance is found. If this is coupled with a self-enclosing ideology (e.g. mainstream sources are not to be trusted, conspiracy to deceive is everywhere, "we" have a special revelation) the mental prison has two locks; I'm better "inside", I'm safer "inside". Well, if it makes them happy, it can't be that bad. But if it makes them happy, why the hell do they look so sad?...

I have come across a fair few miserable Christians over the years...
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Patdys
Iron Wannabe
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In hell I joked that one person's bat shit crazy is another's theology. This was a very generalist joking comment based on that thread development. But like a lot of my humour, it expressed an element of my underlying belief or fear. Now I accept the presentation is a little unusual but the content Emily presents is probably no less unusual than all religious beliefs. I don't share Emily 's beliefs. But then I don't share many of the beliefs of my own faith tradition.

But I do like what Emily wanted as her screen name. The feminine form of Pinocchio. And I guess, I too, want to be a real boy, (a real girl), a real human. And I shudder to think how I, with my one trick relational theology, present to an outsider.

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Marathon run. Next Dream. Australian this time.

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SusanDoris

Incurable Optimist
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quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
Marvin, I am in total admiration of your ability to do that!

SusanDoris, what is GH?

Agree with you about Marvin! [Smile] GH is the Graham Hancock Message Boards.
In case anyone wants to know, the Ark of the Covenant is, apparently, suspended above the labyrinth in the centre of Chartres Cathedral in another time dimension. Unfortunately, it cannot be retrieved because the correct conjunction of the original stained glass window, roof peak and something else I forget is impossible because of the ravages of time.

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I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

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SusanDoris

Incurable Optimist
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Clingford:
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
...SusanDoris, what is GH?

I think she is referring to Graham Hancock who is a writer of pseudo-history.
I'd add that when I used to read all of GH's books, I found that whenever he was speculating, he always made that clear.

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I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

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Komensky
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Have I missed something? The Dukes of Hazzard Abdicated?!

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"The English are not very spiritual people, so they invented cricket to give them some idea of eternity." - George Bernard Shaw

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Barnabas62
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quote:
Originally posted by Holy Smoke:
I have come across a fair few miserable Christians over the years...

Me too. Sometimes it's because of bad stuff in their local churches. (You know the kind; where everything is forbidden, unless it is compulsory.)

But sometimes it's just them, or what's going on in their lives in other ways.

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

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Gee D
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Clingford:
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
...SusanDoris, what is GH?

I think she is referring to Graham Hancock who is a writer of pseudo-history.
A different sort of funny to his programme, well known to older shipmates, Hancock's Half Hour .

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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican

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Penny S
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Ah, light dawns - I was running through lists of things, not people.

I now have, running through my head, a parody of a parody composed by a friend of mine about the theories of Bauval and Hancock and sphinx measuring.

I have read that thing about the Ark - someone with all of the author's books donated them to Oxfam, so I bought them, scanned them, and returned them.

I thought it quite amusing to see Marcus Du Sautoy on TV risking standing beneath the invisible Ark when discussing maths. It was quite clear that one essential pole of the suspension mechanism was missing.

I'm impressed that SusanDoris went to the trouble of investigating the gold hypothesis. I just wrote it off without bothering. (Did you know that Waitrose sells edible gold for cake decorating?)

And the Guardian today has, by virtue of synchronicity, a photo of a painting of the Queen actually STANDING on the Westminster Abbey COSMATI PAVEMENT, which must indicate something!

[ 20. May 2013, 12:35: Message edited by: Penny S ]

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Thyme
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# 12360

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quote:
Originally posted by Patdys:
In hell I joked that one person's bat shit crazy is another's theology. This was a very generalist joking comment based on that thread development. But like a lot of my humour, it expressed an element of my underlying belief or fear. Now I accept the presentation is a little unusual but the content Emily presents is probably no less unusual than all religious beliefs. I don't share Emily 's beliefs. But then I don't share many of the beliefs of my own faith tradition.

But I do like what Emily wanted as her screen name. The feminine form of Pinocchio. And I guess, I too, want to be a real boy, (a real girl), a real human. And I shudder to think how I, with my one trick relational theology, present to an outsider.

I was thinking something along these lines mulling over the various threads and reactions. There was a time when I dismissed most of what I now believe from the mainstream Christian traditions as 'batshit crazy'.

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The Church in its own bubble has become, at best the guardian of the value system of the nation’s grandparents, and at worst a den of religious anoraks defined by defensiveness, esoteric logic and discrimination. Bishop of Buckingham's blog

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Erroneous Monk
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# 10858

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quote:
Originally posted by Patdys:
In hell I joked that one person's bat shit crazy is another's theology. This was a very generalist joking comment based on that thread development. But like a lot of my humour, it expressed an element of my underlying belief or fear.

People *do* believe unusual things. My aunt was married to a gentleman who believed that there was life after death for all, but that for non-Christians, this life would be, not in heaven, but on other planets. He mentioned Venus and Mars as options.

I think he was a Methodist

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And I shot a man in Tesco, just to watch him die.

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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quote:
I AM THE walrus.
Sir Paul, is that you???

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

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quote:
Originally posted by Thyme:
HE IS A MARTIAN! And probably a Lizard as well.

You know of the lizards? Take CARE lest they drink your thoughts. Wear your TINFOIL with pride, for then THEY are powerLESS.

Don't let your candle blow out. That's IMPORTANT. And beware those from Lyra for they are liars. LYRA/LIAR - coincidence? HA! You have been deceived my FRIEND! The pyramids point the way. Follow the camel. Forsake the dugongs and keep your candle alight. A day is coming when NIGHT will fall, but it not this day. I am the kwizats haderach.

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Hail Gallaxhar

Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
quote:
I AM THE walrus.
Sir Paul, is that you???
I AM not a "sir" for "sirs" are part of the elites that crush the Truth and prevent you from HAVING access to it. SO many have failed and so MUCH has been lost. Trust the pyramids to point you to the FUNdamental facts. WITH them in your life all can be won. Do not forget THIS. You have power. You are strong when you believe. Send no money now. All I ask is your trust. I am not a FUCKWIT. Promise.

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Hail Gallaxhar

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Moo

Ship's tough old bird
# 107

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quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
Pity she wasn't around for our special "Da Vinci Code" discussion board. That was a fun time with Dan Brown, the Knights Templar, the Priory of Sion, the Holy Blood and the Holy Grail etc. Louise went to town IIRC. Much fun was had by all.

Here is a link to the Da Vinci Code board.

Moo

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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.

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Komensky
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# 8675

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quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
…
I now have, running through my head, a parody of a parody composed by a friend of mine about the theories of Bauval and Hancock and sphinx measuring.

That sounds hilarious.

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"The English are not very spiritual people, so they invented cricket to give them some idea of eternity." - George Bernard Shaw

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Porridge
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# 15405

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quote:
Originally posted by Emily Windsor-Cragg:
. . . Each of us knows what we know, what we believe. We have a foggy notion of what we don't know that we'd like to know. But the killer aspect is when we don't know WHAT WE DON'T KNOW.
. . . Emily

Ah, but Dick Cheney does.

--------------------
Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!

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SusanDoris

Incurable Optimist
# 12618

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quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
I have read that thing about the Ark - someone with all of the author's books donated them to Oxfam, so I bought them, scanned them, and returned them.

Eminently sensible!! [Smile] In fact, I checked the biblical references too. It made for quite an interesting hobby for a while actually.
quote:
I thought it quite amusing to see Marcus Du Sautoy on TV risking standing beneath the invisible Ark when discussing maths. It was quite clear that one essential pole of the suspension mechanism was missing.
I didn't know about that programme - can you tell me more please?
quote:
I'm impressed that SusanDoris went to the trouble of investigating the gold hypothesis. I just wrote it off without bothering. (
*Gracefully acknowledges compliment!*
quote:
Did you know that Waitrose sells edible gold for cake decorating?)
Obviously, waitrose know something we don't. [Smile]

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I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

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Crœsos
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# 238

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quote:
Originally posted by Patdys:
In hell I joked that one person's bat shit crazy is another's theology. This was a very generalist joking comment based on that thread development. But like a lot of my humour, it expressed an element of my underlying belief or fear. Now I accept the presentation is a little unusual but the content Emily presents is probably no less unusual than all religious beliefs. I don't share Emily 's beliefs. But then I don't share many of the beliefs of my own faith tradition.

To a certain extent, isn't virtually all religious belief about visitors from another world, whether it's Annunaki from space, Zeus from Olympus, or the Son of God from the Kingdom of Heaven? Is there any way to claim 'your visitor from another world is ridiculous, but mine is totally plausible' without appealing to special pleading?

--------------------
Humani nil a me alienum puto

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chris stiles
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# 12641

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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
kind of a General Theory of everything. The one section that seemed less so was about childhood sexual abuse. (Against it.)

People of this sort seem to generate General Theories - a case of pattern recognition gone mad perhaps.

On a more mundane level, there is Andrew Kadir-Buxton who believes everything, bar everything, from the female orgasm to mental illness can be solved by punching people in the head:

http://www.kadir-buxton.com/

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goperryrevs
Shipmtae
# 13504

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quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
Is there any way to claim 'your visitor from another world is ridiculous, but mine is totally plausible' without appealing to special pleading?

Yes and no. In terms of the high-level beliefs themselves, there's not much difference. But the worldview that contains that belief also contains a whole bunch of other beliefs (and perhaps relies upon them) that might be demonstrably false.

So if your religious worldview also contains a whole bunch of unlikely conspiracy theories, or scientifically invalid nonsense, then that worldview can be critiqued more heavily than a worldview whose beliefs are generally consistent with reality as we observe it.

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"Keep your eye on the donut, not on the hole." - David Lynch

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Justinian
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# 5357

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quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
Oh gawd! It seems if you believe in one conspiracy theory you believe them all.

A phenomenon known as Crank Magnetism.

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My real name consists of just four letters, but in billions of combinations.

Eudaimonaic Laughter - my blog.

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Porridge
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# 15405

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quote:
Originally posted by goperryrevs:
. . . So if your religious worldview also contains a whole bunch of unlikely conspiracy theories, or scientifically invalid nonsense, then that worldview can be critiqued more heavily than a worldview whose beliefs are generally consistent with reality as we observe it.

A few Christian beliefs not generally consistent with any reality I personally have observed (YMMV):

The capacity of Jesus to:
turn water into wine
walk across storm-driven waters
revivify people who've been dead several days
re-attach sword-severed ears with touch alone
be the progeny of a supernatural being

The capacity of the BVM to:
give birth without the agency of human sperm
remain virgin (if that means an intact hymen) after giving birth

Other, more general, beliefs:
An eternal life-after-death in two distinct phases, the second of which returns individuals to perfected versions of their original physical bodies

I grant you, the addition of highly-unlikely conspiracy theories would make any the above look even dodgier. But you've got to admit Croesos has a point.

--------------------
Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!

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TomOfTarsus
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# 3053

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Emily, if you come back after all this: forget about all the stuff posted in your first post and the rest, the twin towers, the flat earth, all of it, just for a minute.

What do you think are the facts about Jesus?

I'm not challenging you, I'm curious.

Blessings,

Tom

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By grace are ye saved through faith... not of yourselves; it is the gift of God; not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath ... ordained that we should walk in them.

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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460

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quote:
Originally posted by Emily Windsor-Cragg:
It's like, "Secrets of the Elites" are never to be revealed, eh?

So reveal them then.

quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Basically, people purposely make up a fake conspiracy theory. They think it's funny. Then things start happening.

The late John Sladek wrote some books exposing some various conspiracy theory mystery religions, and then another which was a comedy spoof of one he made up. And some people really started believing it.

quote:
Originally posted by Erroneous Monk:
My aunt was married to a gentleman who believed that there was life after death for all, but that for non-Christians, this life would be, not in heaven, but on other planets. He mentioned Venus and Mars as options.

I think he was a Methodist

[Biased] Actually that sounds like Mormon teaching to me. Everyone, whoever htey are, gets retrospectively baptised and gets to live on new planets, with their social status depending on how near their beliefs are to Mormonism and how many kids they have and how white they are (they have kept quiet about that last bit for a few decades). These new planets are managed by the best Mormons (i.e. white, male, and with lots of kids) who get to be a sort of local god. Once upon a time (*they might have officially repudiated the idea now, I'm not sure) they would go on to say that the God of this world was just such a holy man promoted to godhood out of some repvious world - and of course there could be other such gods in other worlds inaccessible to us. So strictly speaking Mormonism is, or was not so long ago, not theist at all. Much more like ancient pagan beliefs. Maybe even Sumerian ones. (Except that they didn't think the rest of us had a chance, you had to be a god to live on)

--------------------
Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

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Cara
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# 16966

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quote:
Originally posted by Porridge:
quote:
Originally posted by goperryrevs:
. . . So if your religious worldview also contains a whole bunch of unlikely conspiracy theories, or scientifically invalid nonsense, then that worldview can be critiqued more heavily than a worldview whose beliefs are generally consistent with reality as we observe it.

A few Christian beliefs not generally consistent with any reality I personally have observed (YMMV):

The capacity of Jesus to:
turn water into wine
walk across storm-driven waters
revivify people who've been dead several days
re-attach sword-severed ears with touch alone
be the progeny of a supernatural being

The capacity of the BVM to:
give birth without the agency of human sperm
remain virgin (if that means an intact hymen) after giving birth

Other, more general, beliefs:
An eternal life-after-death in two distinct phases, the second of which returns individuals to perfected versions of their original physical bodies

I grant you, the addition of highly-unlikely conspiracy theories would make any the above look even dodgier. But you've got to admit Croesos has a point.

Exactly, if we are Christians we do believe some pretty amazing things.

To go back to the OP...I do remember being captivated by Erick von Daniken's books when young. Not that I bought into them wholesale exactly, but that there was something wonderful about the idea that all the mysteries--like those enormous diagrams in Mexico for example-- could be explained by this theory. Also there was something very compelling about the idea in itself of beings--especially of wise, superior, teaching-us-everything beings--coming from "beyond" to help us.

As has been said upthread, isn't all religion about such beings coming from beyond?

And angels....same thing. Why do we (or many of us) have this craving to believe in them?

How to explain these yearnings and desires in the human psyche--yearnings and beliefs that cross cultures and eras??

--------------------
Pondering.

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