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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Purgatory: Street harassment of women
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Honest Ron Bacardi
Shipmate
# 38
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Posted
Kelley Alves wrote: quote:
The introduction of things like "Did you hit him because he smiled at you?" and "It used to be okay to look" feels like reductio ad absurdum.
Maybe. But it does have some resonance with some of the more totalizing current theories of The Male Gaze.
(Let me hasten to add that in its original context of film criticism, it was an unexceptional observation IMHO. It has spread well beyond that now though. And it is relevant because in its derelict forms which have been enumerated above, female disenfranchisement for the benefit of a male viewer is pretty well exactly the common factor.)
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Anglo-Cthulhic
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Can I say I am impressed you brought up the idea of the "male gaze?" I honestly didn't think it was worth bringing up, it's so hard to explain.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
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the Pookah
Shipmate
# 9186
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Posted
the male gaze to me means looking at a woman, any random woman, as a sexual object there for your pleasure and enjoyment.
If I look at women on the uni campus and think they're attractive charming, that's okay on my internal monitor, but if I stare at their breasts, or buttocks, getting turned on (and I've done this), then that's just wrong to me.
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Although, in re-reading what you said, i have to ask, had anybody on this actual thread expressed the idea that the male gaze, as encountered on the street, is intrinsically predatory or entitled? We are discussing actual harassment.
Therefore I am going to repeat, to bring up the idea of martial arts in response to a look or a smile is pretty dismissive, on the tail end of seeing comments about pregnant women receiving menacing comments. It's like that didn't even register. That in itself is unsettling.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
But don't men on occasion regard the looking of other men as signifying something demanding a response stronger than "hello"? As in "You looking at me?" and "I didn't like the way he was looking at me, officer". Obviously this look is not usually a leer.
And now I come to think of it, reading the way people want to be regarded is a minefield - knowing who is going to respond to a straight look as if it were a challenge, and who is going to think not being looked at in a straight way indicates something negative. (As in teachers ordering "look at me, boy".)
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
But don't men on occasion regard the looking of other men as signifying something demanding a response stronger than "hello"? As in "You looking at me?" and "I didn't like the way he was looking at me, officer". Obviously this look is not usually a leer.
Though it often does not have the sexual component, it does have the dominance factor, and the implied/inferred challenge to this.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
Yes, and the confusion in the other cases could be between the challenge to dominance of a direct gaze, and the failure to acknowledge the dominant other by avoiding eye-contact. Presumably the appropriate animal behaviour is to look at the dominant male and then lower the gaze in submission. I could never do that sort of thing at school. Didn't understand the dominance alpha stuff at all.
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the Pookah
Shipmate
# 9186
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Posted
So for males is it all about dominance,pack behavior and possession; such that street harassment of a pregnant woman is fine? It's merely an attempt to claim a viable female who can successfully reproduce.
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Fool on the hill
Shipmate
# 9428
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Fool on the hill:
I personally don't want negative experiences to impact how I generally interact with people.
A few days ago, I just finished taking pics and was collapsing my tripod when a very large, powerfully-built man approached. The spot was screened from view by foliage and there were few people about the general area even to be heard by.
He greeted me and we spoke about the view, the weather and some rather strange theories he espoused. I never had the feeling he was attempting to chat me up or threaten me in any manner. He simply wished to share the view and a bit of convo. I never felt other than relaxed and calm in his presence, felt no threat. Yet, after he left, I noticed I had never set down the tripod nor let it be in a position where it could not be employed.
So, yes, one should not be ruled by past experiences, but neither does it mean rescinding all caution.
Of course.
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
Yes, and the confusion in the other cases could be between the challenge to dominance of a direct gaze, and the failure to acknowledge the dominant other by avoiding eye-contact. Presumably the appropriate animal behaviour is to look at the dominant male and then lower the gaze in submission. I could never do that sort of thing at school. Didn't understand the dominance alpha stuff at all.
See, all this stuff may have been useful somewhere in the Cro Magnon era, but it mostly gets us all in a world of trouble now. See Pookah's post below.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Above, I mean.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
The male gaze is interesting as it crops up in the Bible, well the Apocrypha to be precise . Warning a man not to gaze on a beautiful maiden - 'Lest he falls for her'. Gaze taken to mean a long look.
Incidentally it doesn't say anything about the maiden being 'creeped out'. But that's the age it was written in.
Thing is , if I stare at a man it's likely to be regarded as threatening . Whereas simply catching the glance of a another man for a split second tends to receive a warm , albeit very brief, response of bonding or kinship.
It's pretty much the same with a woman in this regard . Although the main difference is that men and women are sexually attracted to each-other . Therefore the brief encounter on this occasion might be more, shall we say, electrically charged.
None of which can in anyway be termed as harassment. So yes, I was guilty reducing things to the absurd with my previous post .
I have no idea why we are now living in an age where certain males think it's OK to make lewd comments to a pregnant female on the the street . Something that can rightly termed as harassment.
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Change is the only certainty of existence
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Soror Magna
Shipmate
# 9881
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
Yes, and the confusion in the other cases could be between the challenge to dominance of a direct gaze, and the failure to acknowledge the dominant other by avoiding eye-contact. Presumably the appropriate animal behaviour is to look at the dominant male and then lower the gaze in submission. I could never do that sort of thing at school. Didn't understand the dominance alpha stuff at all.
We may not understand it, but the dominant males do. This is why I think "ignoring" a harasser isn't generally a good idea because they will interpret it as submission.
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
I'm not absolutely convinced that the perpetrators are what would be recognised in a properly human context as dominant alphas. In general primate terms, I think they are probably the males who are trying it on, coming in from outside and challenging the alpha, or growing up to try to do so. In the wild, the alpha would sort them out and they would go off with the bachelor group and keep on being a pain until they either manage to get in to a troop, or die. The human alphas aren't on the street (unless in cars), and don't feel able to sort them out. Probably don't have a support group with them as a gorilla or chimp would. So the wannabes go on roaring, shouting crudites, pinching and groping and (scuse this) pissing up walls, picking on the weaker members of society who they know can't sort them out. Sad, really.
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
Good points, Penny S. I doubt that guys who harass women on the street are alpha males! Some of them may be highly inadequate types, who have to denigrate women, because they feel worthless themselves.
But there are probably highly misogynist men who do feel superior to women, also.
And the alpha males may be harassing women in the board rooms and so on - see the Rennard case.
And no doubt there are both alpha males and inadequate feeling males who don't harass women, so it's pretty complicated.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
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JoannaP
Shipmate
# 4493
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
I have no idea why we are now living in an age where certain males think it's OK to make lewd comments to a pregnant female on the the street . Something that can rightly termed as harassment.
Somebody who knows more social history may correct me but it seems to me that in the past it might not have been that common for a woman, pregnant or not, to be in a position where she could be harassed by a strange man (strange in the sense of 'unknown to her' rather than 'weird') in the street without witnesses being present.
My life is much less restricted than it would have been 100+ years ago but the downside is that there are greater risks as well as the opportunities.
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"Freedom for the pike is death for the minnow." R. H. Tawney (quoted by Isaiah Berlin)
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Penny S and quetzalcoatl,
Dominance and submission are more complex and variable in some animal species, most especially the human species.
JoannaP, ISTM the only the posh were more protected.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by JoannaP:
My life is much less restricted than it would have been 100+ years ago but the downside is that there are greater risks as well as the opportunities.
Indeed , with the freedom comes the risk , and there is risk in all things . Life would be excruciatingly dull without it .
Not that I'm suggesting females should accept male harassment as just one of those things . It's something that needs to be better understood , by both sexes, and discouraged . I gather there has been some progress in the stopping of cat-calling from scaffolding and building sites.
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Change is the only certainty of existence
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Honest Ron Bacardi:
.
(Let me hasten to add that in its original context of film criticism, it was an unexceptional observation IMHO. It has spread well beyond that now though.
I'm not sure that it was entirely unexceptional in film theory. It was introduced to film studies as part of a specifically radical feminist study. At least someone must have had arguments with it.
Also AFAIK it was developed out of some previous ideas from psychoanalysis. (By Laura Mulvey, who works in the same college I do - though as I've never talked to her as far as I remember its not much of a namedrop!)
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
lilbuddha, I agree that the business of hierarchy is complicated.
It now occurs to me that men like Rennard and Hancock may not actually feel themselves to be at the top. Both were unknown outside the party they fixed and organised in until this blew up, with others being the public face of the LibDems.
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Honest Ron Bacardi
Shipmate
# 38
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
quote:
Originally posted by Honest Ron Bacardi:
.
(Let me hasten to add that in its original context of film criticism, it was an unexceptional observation IMHO. It has spread well beyond that now though.
I'm not sure that it was entirely unexceptional in film theory. It was introduced to film studies as part of a specifically radical feminist study. At least someone must have had arguments with it.
Also AFAIK it was developed out of some previous ideas from psychoanalysis. (By Laura Mulvey, who works in the same college I do - though as I've never talked to her as far as I remember its not much of a namedrop!)
It's certainly a great namecheck though! However - I was really referring to Berger's work which was earlier. I agree that Laura Mulvey's introduction of Freudian psychoanalysis does introduce some questionable elements. Even so I think there is an important point in there.
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Anglo-Cthulhic
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JoannaP
Shipmate
# 4493
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
JoannaP, ISTM the only the posh were more protected.
I was assuming (a) that poorer women would have a restricted range and generally only walk in areas where they knew people and were themselves known and (b) that such areas would tend to be crowded. As I am not a historian, I could well be wrong on both of those. Clearly, being harassed by somebody you know in front of a crowd is not fun but it would be public knowledge, possibly with consequences for the perpetrator.
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"Freedom for the pike is death for the minnow." R. H. Tawney (quoted by Isaiah Berlin)
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin
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Heavenly Anarchist
Shipmate
# 13313
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by JoannaP:
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
I have no idea why we are now living in an age where certain males think it's OK to make lewd comments to a pregnant female on the the street . Something that can rightly termed as harassment.
Somebody who knows more social history may correct me but it seems to me that in the past it might not have been that common for a woman, pregnant or not, to be in a position where she could be harassed by a strange man (strange in the sense of 'unknown to her' rather than 'weird') in the street without witnesses being present.
My life is much less restricted than it would have been 100+ years ago but the downside is that there are greater risks as well as the opportunities.
17th century Samuel Pepys used to grope young women in church, as well as the wives of his business associates and the maids. These women appear to have been unsafe in public places as well as private, regardless of the class. I don't think there is a record of him harassing upper class women but he did used to go to their gardens and stare at their underwear. His diary is an fascinating read. The usual self defence from unwanted attention appears to have been hat pins. Upper class women were often groped in the theatre, sometimes in an effort to distract them and get them to move their hands away from their skirts (so someone else could steal their 'pockets' which were tied on under their skirts).
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'I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.' Douglas Adams
Dog Activity Monitor
My shop
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Heavenly Anarchist:
The usual self defence from unwanted attention appears to have been hat pins.
People who rhapsodize about the olden days of unfettered flirting would do well to read this carefully. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
(My great-grandma totally had to hatpin someone. When Grandma told my sis and I this story first, she had gotten him in the hand, When we discussed it as young women, Grandma said, "Well, you were too young when I told you that story but I can tell you now-- it wasn't his hand.")
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
It's something that needs to be better understood , by both sexes, and discouraged . I gather there has been some progress in the stopping of cat-calling from scaffolding and building sites.
The stories I am hearing on this thread suggest otherwise.
The baseline for this discussion, though, needs to be that safety trumps self-esteem issues. Especially in light of the fact that "increased freedom creates increased risk." Women need to forget what everybody else thinks and access their personal instincts to asses a situation and respond to it. Politeness can come later.
The problem is what someone said above-- women are too reluctant to end uncomfortable conversations, and to agree to uncomfortable situations rather than hurt someone's feelings. The resistance to comments like "Don't be rude" or "You have to be polite" is that the kind of person who is inclined to draw a woman into a compromising situation is exactly the kind of person who will use that kind of rhetoric to get past their defenses.
Again, think of the kind of technique used by telemarketers. Would we encourage the average person to feel guilty about saying "No thanks" and hanging up on a telemarketer? And the stakes in that situation are much lower.
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
I was advised to carry a hatpin, by my grandmother, I think. (Not the one followed over Dartford Heath.) The problem with that would have been that society has changed, and I did not wear hats over piled up hair in which to place said pins. Carrying a hat pin in those circumstances is similar to carrying a knife.
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Pine Marten
Shipmate
# 11068
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Posted
It helps to look confident, as I think has been mentioned upthread. I tend to stride purposefully, and carry (when the weather's inclement) an umbrella in my hand, which I swing as I walk. It can be a handy weapon if need be.
I live in an area of London which a lot of people are afraid of, but actually I generally feel safe there because of the crowds, the shops open all hours and the traffic. I'd feel more wary in a quiet alley or out-of-town road with no street lights.
Though I still feel irritated by the occasion years ago when I was going to work (so around 8.45am), it was raining but as I was feeling cheerful I was humming Dixie to myself (for some odd reason) and I'd just go to 'D-I-X-I even know my - ' when a lout thrust his face under my umbrella and said 'Cheer up!' It put me in a bad mood all day... ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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Keep love in your heart. A life without it is like a sunless garden when the flowers are dead. - Oscar Wilde
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Heavenly Anarchist
Shipmate
# 13313
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Posted
I confidently walked through Bethnal Green in the early hours of the morning for similar reasons. When I was harassed on streets it was usually empty suburban ones (though not even there in Cambridge ![[Smile]](smile.gif) ).
I happily chat to almost anyone on the streets, I say hello to strangers, converse with tramps etc. Over 20 years of nursing and a large stint as an Outpatients Sister has made me very good at handling people. I once broke up a domestic argument in the middle of a street in an unfamiliar town (I'm on 4 foot 11 inches and they were both way bigger than me). Being socially confident has not prevented me from being harassed. It has, however, helped me to respond very loudly.
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'I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.' Douglas Adams
Dog Activity Monitor
My shop
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Lilac
Shipmate
# 17979
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pine Marten:
It helps to look confident, as I think has been mentioned upthread. I tend to stride purposefully, and carry (when the weather's inclement) an umbrella in my hand, which I swing as I walk. It can be a handy weapon if need be.
An umbrella can be lethal. I heard a story about a guy fencing with the epee, which is a blunt form of duelling sword. His opponent's epee went through his decaying canvas jacket and into his stomach. Days later he died in hospital of peritonitis. An umbrella could do likewise, and you need to be sure that's what you need. You'd be asked questions about this later.
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Seeking...
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
SO, hatpin, then?
quote:
Originally posted by Pine Marten:
Though I still feel irritated by the occasion years ago when I was going to work (so around 8.45am), it was raining but as I was feeling cheerful I was humming Dixie to myself (for some odd reason) and I'd just go to 'D-I-X-I even know my - ' when a lout thrust his face under my umbrella and said 'Cheer up!' It put me in a bad mood all day...
You were freaking humming "Dixie" and some dork told you to "cheer up"?
See, y'all? we just can't win.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Heavenly Anarchist
Shipmate
# 13313
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Posted
I think living in Britain would be a reasonable cause for having an umbrella...
I remember having a security talk from the police when I was on a nursing course in London many years ago. They said that obviously it is illegal to carry a weapon so you need to have a good reason to be carrying something that you use as a weapon. They then said 'you're nurses, it would be quite reasonable for you to carry scissors'. They did also point out the risks involved if someone else got hold of the 'weapon' though.
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'I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.' Douglas Adams
Dog Activity Monitor
My shop
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
I once borrowed an axe ( from my ex-wife's new husband) and walked home carrying it through the streets of Lewisham. A real axe, with a 3-foot handle and a big blade that weighed about a kilo. People did look at me funny. But no-one arrested me.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
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Pine Marten
Shipmate
# 11068
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lilac:
quote:
Originally posted by Pine Marten:
It helps to look confident, as I think has been mentioned upthread. I tend to stride purposefully, and carry (when the weather's inclement) an umbrella in my hand, which I swing as I walk. It can be a handy weapon if need be.
An umbrella can be lethal. I heard a story about a guy fencing with the epee, which is a blunt form of duelling sword. His opponent's epee went through his decaying canvas jacket and into his stomach. Days later he died in hospital of peritonitis. An umbrella could do likewise, and you need to be sure that's what you need. You'd be asked questions about this later.
My umbrella is a largeish telescopic one so it hasn't got a pointy bit when folded up, but it could fetch someone a nasty wallop. Fortunately I haven't had to thump anyone with it yet, but I imagine it looks quite hefty swinging in my hand ![[Biased]](wink.gif) .
...and my apologies to shipmates across the pond - it's not Dixie is it, it's Al Jolson's Swanee ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif) ...it was still irritating though to be criticised when I was perfectly happy.
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Keep love in your heart. A life without it is like a sunless garden when the flowers are dead. - Oscar Wilde
Posts: 1731 | From: Isle of Albion | Registered: Feb 2006
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Lilac
Shipmate
# 17979
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Posted
Self-defence tricks look too complicated. When the time comes, your assailant will probably have the advantage of surprise. Judo techniques will vanish from your mind. You won't have time to draw a weapon. I reckon you need general fitness primarily.
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Seeking...
Posts: 62 | From: Birmingham / Coventry Area, UK | Registered: Jan 2014
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
Pine Marten: quote:
...and my apologies to shipmates across the pond - it's not Dixie is it, it's Al Jolson's Swanee [Hot and Hormonal] ...it was still irritating though to be criticised when I was perfectly happy.
(Someone remembers "Swanee"? ![[Eek!]](eek.gif) )
Too bad a snappy retort didn't come to mind like, "Yeah, you ought to try it." :sigh: But snappy retorts NEVER come to mind when we need them, do they?
As to self defense, the simpler and most painful and loud the better. When I was in high school our church youth group had a cop as a mentor. (His wife thought he needed regular contact with some "normal" teens as an antidote to the young thugs he dealt with on the job.) One evening he gave a program on self defense for us girls. He said if you can manage, get in three, painful blows to vulnerable places. The groin, of course. But my favorite was the heel of the hand hard to the nose. With luck you might break it and his eyes will immediately tear up. Scream like hell, And when he lets go run like hell, still screaming.
Might not work, but it would be worth a try if he doesn't have knife to your throat. And being in shape would be a plus.
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lilac:
Self-defence tricks look too complicated. When the time comes, your assailant will probably have the advantage of surprise. Judo techniques will vanish from your mind. You won't have time to draw a weapon. I reckon you need general fitness primarily.
Any self defense technique should be practiced until performing it is nearly automatic. Umbrella to Muay Thai, all are ineffective if one must pause to think.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
And the trouble with it becoming automatic is that you end up elbowing your best friend REALLY hard.
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Is why I added the qualifier nearly.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Taliesin
Shipmate
# 14017
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Posted
I get no comments nor offensive looks, and I suspect that's because of the two huge powerful dogs on either side. Oh, I do love them.
Since teenage, I have affected walking tall and aggressively, long strides. Never in high heels. If I want to wear high heels I take em in a bag. My daughter carries a metal spike about 8 inches long - it has a fancy name, issued by a women's self defence class years ago. cuperong?
eta: be aware, striking a person's nose with the heel of your hand, upwards, can kill them. Apparently.
[ 29. January 2014, 22:05: Message edited by: Taliesin ]
Posts: 2138 | From: South, UK | Registered: Aug 2008
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gwai:
It depends on what is automatic. I train in martial arts relatively seriously, but I am not trained to automatically strike out when approached. Part of my training is also to notice who is around me before they get too close. Does that mean an accident could never happen, of course not, but that's true without martial arts training too.
I have noticed that, when I feel like I am being closely followed, if I just sort of look up and leisurely take note of my surroundings, the person following will immediately back off. This would be the type if person counting on the element of surprise, I suppose. Or just someone who is lost in thought and doesn't realize how intrusive they are being till they see my reaction.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Would we encourage the average person to feel guilty about saying "No thanks" and hanging up on a telemarketer?
Saying "no thanks" is wasting their time and costing them money. If you aren't going to talk to them then the kind thing to do is just put the phone down without saying anything. And the cruelest thing you can do to them is engage them in conversation if you don't intend to follow up on whatever it is they are trying to sell you.
Changes are they are paid a small amount of money per completed call, plus a bonus for every punter who bites. And they are penalised if they don't come up to a minimum number of calls per hour. Possibly even sacked. Wasting even a few seconds on a call by saying hello how are you costs them money at the end of the day. Waste enough of their time and you ciost them their job.
Its even worse if you call them. Then you are nothing but a cost and large numbers of employers still measure efficiency by average handling time or calls per hour - i.e. the quicker they get rid of you the more likely they are to get that bonus at the end of the month.
So be nice to phone spanmmers. As soon as you realise they are trying to sell you something, cut them off. Or better still, just don't bother to answer calls from numbers you don't recognise. That way you don't waste their time at all - they aren't ringiing your number, the computer does that, you only get put on their queue when you pick up your phone or press "answer".
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Funny you said that, ken because I originally just put hang up" and added the "no thanks" bit because I didn't want to appear to be a dick. IOW. I agree with you.
And can everyone see how at least some of what ken is saying might apply to not stringing along some guy who is "on the pull"?
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Lilac
Shipmate
# 17979
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Posted
Phone spammers? I just say "Helpdesk" and ask for their username and password. Or maybe I could try "Reception" and check whether anybody of that name is booked in. Turns out lots of people do this, because genuine callers know what's happening.
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Seeking...
Posts: 62 | From: Birmingham / Coventry Area, UK | Registered: Jan 2014
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Pine Marten
Shipmate
# 11068
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
So be nice to phone spanmmers. As soon as you realise they are trying to sell you something, cut them off. Or better still, just don't bother to answer calls from numbers you don't recognise. That way you don't waste their time at all - they aren't ringiing your number, the computer does that, you only get put on their queue when you pick up your phone or press "answer".
Ah, but some of us don't have phones that show caller ID, so we have to answer calls . But yes, my daughter never answers numbers she doesn't recognise on her mobile.
I try to be polite and repeat No thanks, bye-bye, but have often hung up with them still chuntering away...
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Keep love in your heart. A life without it is like a sunless garden when the flowers are dead. - Oscar Wilde
Posts: 1731 | From: Isle of Albion | Registered: Feb 2006
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
Now this has veered into telemarketing, I'll just leave this here...
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
And can everyone see how at least some of what ken is saying might apply to not stringing along some guy who is "on the pull"?
... because it cracks me up that we all agree we have the right to distance ourselves from someone who is trying for our cash, but there is still this doubt about what a woman should do when she suspects someone is trying for her pussy.
Sorry to be blunt, but do you see what I mean?
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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JoannaP
Shipmate
# 4493
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
And can everyone see how at least some of what ken is saying might apply to not stringing along some guy who is "on the pull"?
... because it cracks me up that we all agree we have the right to distance ourselves from someone who is trying for our cash, but there is still this doubt about what a woman should do when she suspects someone is trying for her pussy.
Sorry to be blunt, but do you see what I mean?
Yes but the doubt is over which tactic is least likely to result in physical harm for the woman. That is not an issue with somebody at the other end of a telephone line.
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"Freedom for the pike is death for the minnow." R. H. Tawney (quoted by Isaiah Berlin)
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin
Posts: 1877 | From: England | Registered: May 2003
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Exactly. The stakes are much higher, so we should be giving the ladies a lot more leeway in the choices they make.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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chive
Ship's nude
# 208
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Posted
How does one appear confident to prevent these things happening? Yesterday I was standing in the queue for the cash machine outside a supermarket. I was standing relatively straight, I was aware of my surroundings, it was light, as there was a queue there was clearly other people about when an old man who was behind me in the queue put his arms round me and grabbed both my tits. I was so surprised I just sort of jumped and he wandered off.
How does being confident or acting confident prevent something like that happening?
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'Edward was the kind of man who thought there was no such thing as a lesbian, just a woman who hadn't done one-to-one Bible study with him.' Catherine Fox, Love to the Lost
Posts: 3542 | From: the cupboard under the stairs | Registered: May 2001
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Lilac
Shipmate
# 17979
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by chive:
...an old man who was behind me in the queue put his arms round me and grabbed both my tits.
He must have been senile. But he had the advantage of surprise.
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Seeking...
Posts: 62 | From: Birmingham / Coventry Area, UK | Registered: Jan 2014
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