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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Purgatory: U.S. Presidential Election 2016
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
We're pretty much screwed beyond repair, istm.
As long as folks keep voting for dimocrats and republicans that is
certainly the case.
Either way, the man-child will be replaced. That will be great whether it's Hillary or any of the (r)s.
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
We're pretty much screwed beyond repair, istm.
As long as folks keep voting for dimocrats and republicans that is
certainly the case.
Either way, the man-child will be replaced. That will be great whether it's Hillary or any of the (r)s.
I covet your optimism.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
Ok. There's so many running I overlooked some but then, Obama's executive experience was still basically nil. I doubt I'll vote for a senator in the primaries.
This seems an artificially narrow way to define "track record". Take, for example, Republican Presidential candidate Lindsey Graham, who has spent nearly a quarter century in government at various levels (2 years in the South Carolina House of Representatives, 8 in the U.S. House of Representatives, and by election day 2016 he'll have spent 14 years in the U.S. Senate). It seems very odd to describe someone with that history as having no track record because he's never held an executive branch position. Or to hold that Bernie Sander's eight year tenure as Mayor of Burlington, VT (executive experience!) is his most relevant bit of personal history in assessing his suitability as a President.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
quote:
originally posted by cliffdweller:
The party itself is far far far to the right of the country as a whole. That works well for the GOP in Congressional races, where gerrymandering has allowed them to carve out niche districts of voters who would vote Republican even if the candidate had burned down an orphanage on Xmas Eve. But when it comes to a presidential race it works against them, and Obamacare is just one example.
Again, nationwide polls on individual issues aren't really that important because of the electoral college. The only question is if the Republican views on those issues will prevent them from winning enough of the battleground states to win the election. Gerrymandering doesn't explain Republican control of the Senate and 31 state houses. On the other hand, turn out might prove to be an issue once again.
Now, many in the Republican Pary believe they are to the right of the American people on social issues and to that end have all but thrown social conservatives under the bus. Unfortunately, social conservatives make up over a 1/3 of the GOP vote. Hard to believe their votes could be replaced by all the social liberal hawks who believe the rich are getting a raw deal.
A Mike Huckabee/Jim Webb third party bid would be interesting.
[ 10. June 2015, 18:48: Message edited by: Beeswax Altar ]
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
Ok. There's so many running I overlooked some but then, Obama's executive experience was still basically nil. I doubt I'll vote for a senator in the primaries.
This seems an artificially narrow way to define "track record". Take, for example, Republican Presidential candidate Lindsey Graham, who has spent nearly a quarter century in government at various levels (2 years in the South Carolina House of Representatives, 8 in the U.S. House of Representatives, and by election day 2016 he'll have spent 14 years in the U.S. Senate). It seems very odd to describe someone with that history as having no track record because he's never held an executive branch position. Or to hold that Bernie Sander's eight year tenure as Mayor of Burlington, VT (executive experience!) is his most relevant bit of personal history in assessing his suitability as a President.
Right, Graham has no track record of being in charge of something. Sanders has.
If I owned an MLB team and I was picking a manager, I'd be more interested in your managerial experience then what's on the back of your card. Two different jobs.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
quote:
originally posted by cliffdweller:
The party itself is far far far to the right of the country as a whole. That works well for the GOP in Congressional races, where gerrymandering has allowed them to carve out niche districts of voters who would vote Republican even if the candidate had burned down an orphanage on Xmas Eve. But when it comes to a presidential race it works against them, and Obamacare is just one example.
Again, nationwide polls on individual issues aren't really that important because of the electoral college. The only question is if the Republican views on those issues will prevent them from winning enough of the battleground states to win the election. Gerrymandering doesn't explain Republican control of the Senate and 31 state houses. On the other hand, turn out might prove to be an issue once again.
Now, many in the Republican Pary believe they are to the right of the American people on social issues and to that end have all but thrown social conservatives under the bus. Unfortunately, social conservatives make up over a 1/3 of the GOP vote. Hard to believe their votes could be replaced by all the social liberal hawks who believe the rich are getting a raw deal.
Agreed-- that (all of it) was my point.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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art dunce
Shipmate
# 9258
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
Republican Ticket: Rubio/Kasich
You saw it here first!
ouch
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Ego is not your amigo.
Posts: 1283 | From: in the studio | Registered: Apr 2005
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by art dunce:
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
Republican Ticket: Rubio/Kasich
You saw it here first!
ouch
That's OK. I intend to vote for Elizabeth Warren even though she insists she's not running...
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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art dunce
Shipmate
# 9258
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Posted
Warren is great. I haven't voted for a Republican for president since elder Bush. The only one that scares me is Cruz, he reminds me of a Stephen King character for some reason.
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Ego is not your amigo.
Posts: 1283 | From: in the studio | Registered: Apr 2005
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art dunce
Shipmate
# 9258
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Posted
Sorry for double post. Just mentioned this to my son and he said I am reminded of Greg Stillson from "The Dead Zone".
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Ego is not your amigo.
Posts: 1283 | From: in the studio | Registered: Apr 2005
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by art dunce:
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
Republican Ticket: Rubio/Kasich
You saw it here first!
ouch
Ben Domench wrote the same article over at the federalist. He represents the libertarian lite wing of the Republican Party that believes post 2008 a majority of Americans want to give banks and big business more power while at the same time virtually eliminating the safety net. John Kasich may be running for vice president and that's why I put him second. Frankly, I don't understand the problem. Both articles appear to be saying, "What's with all you RINOs wanting to nominate a competent pragmatist with years of experience in both state and federal government?"
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
Jeb Bush has unveiled his new primary campaign strategy: sending waves of his followers on a hopeless charge against entrenched artillery. Casualties are expected to top out at no more than 50% overall. Seriously though, if you're going to make an historical reference you should at least be familiar with the events you're referring to and how it turned out for the participants.
Then again, maybe it's just the Bush family's natural foot-in-mouth speaking style coming out.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by art dunce:
Sorry for double post. Just mentioned this to my son and he said I am reminded of Greg Stillson from "The Dead Zone".
Brrrr.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
Jeb Bush has unveiled his new primary campaign strategy: sending waves of his followers on a hopeless charge against entrenched artillery. Casualties are expected to top out at no more than 50% overall. Seriously though, if you're going to make an historical reference you should at least be familiar with the events you're referring to and how it turned out for the participants.
Then again, maybe it's just the Bush family's natural foot-in-mouth speaking style coming out.
It's anybody's guess how much this will matter to a public that knows damn-all about US (or any other) history, probably never heard of Pickett's Charge, and doesn't read except in 140-character bits.
A friend of mine is teaching a summer composition course to college freshmen. She says 25% of her class claims never to have read a single book during high school.
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Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!
Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
What I find telling is, successful or not, the campaign Jeb is referencing is a famous Confederate Army action. ( Hell, his speechwriter may have Googled " famous Confederate Army campaigns" to get the phrase.)
There is a variety of levels of disturbing going on there-- the nuances of secession, Jim Crow, revenge for Atlanta...
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
What I find telling is, successful or not, the campaign Jeb is referencing is a famous Confederate Army action.
To be fair, Pickett's Charge was being referenced by "one Bush ally", not Bush himself. Of course, one of the most important things presidential campaigns do is control the message they send out. If someone's going to be speaking to the New York Times about your campaign, the phrase "Pickett's Charge" should never cross the metaphorical Emmitsburg Road of their lips.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
Nothing telling about it beyond admitting to futility, istm.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
Ok. There's so many running I overlooked some but then, Obama's executive experience was still basically nil. I doubt I'll vote for a senator in the primaries.
This seems an artificially narrow way to define "track record". Take, for example, Republican Presidential candidate Lindsey Graham, who has spent nearly a quarter century in government at various levels (2 years in the South Carolina House of Representatives, 8 in the U.S. House of Representatives, and by election day 2016 he'll have spent 14 years in the U.S. Senate). It seems very odd to describe someone with that history as having no track record because he's never held an executive branch position. Or to hold that Bernie Sander's eight year tenure as Mayor of Burlington, VT (executive experience!) is his most relevant bit of personal history in assessing his suitability as a President.
Right, Graham has no track record of being in charge of something. Sanders has.
If I owned an MLB team and I was picking a manager, I'd be more interested in your managerial experience then what's on the back of your card. Two different jobs.
But what, exactly, is the President "in charge" of?
I suppose it depends on what you see as the most important aspect of the job. Yes, the President is the head of the Executive branch. But in the USA even more than many countries, separation of powers ensures that this doesn't give the President power over making the rules (laws), only power over implementing them.
And not power over actually having the money needed to implement.
Being able to deal with Congress is therefore a pretty vital component of the job. I therefore query whether having been "in charge" of something is actually the best indicator.
[ 16. June 2015, 03:24: Message edited by: orfeo ]
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Being able to deal with Congress is therefore a pretty vital component of the job. I therefore query whether having been "in charge" of something is actually the best indicator.
I believe a governor who has experience dealing with a state legislature has a leg up on someone who has just been a congressman or senator. That seems to usually be the judgement of the nation as a whole during my lifetime with just Kennedy and Obama being elected from the senate.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Fair enough.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by art dunce:
Sorry for double post. Just mentioned this to my son and he said I am reminded of Greg Stillson from "The Dead Zone".
I'm only familiar with the TV series. But IIRC Stillson was the seriously-disturbed politician, whose life kept intertwining with Johnny's?
I can see the comparison. My main problem with Ted Cruz (besides his being a Republican) is his father's Dominionism theology, which involves Ted and other men being anointed as kings/princes and producing an "end-times transfer of wealth" from evil people to Christians.*
Makes me wonder if Rafael Cruz is like Stillson's dad.
*That isn't exactly the wording in this particular article, but versions vary. ![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif)
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
I can see the comparison. My main problem with Ted Cruz (besides his being a Republican) is his father's Dominionism theology, which involves Ted and other men being anointed as kings/princes and producing an "end-times transfer of wealth" from evil people to Christians.*
While I prefer Republicans to Democrats and a punch in the stomach to a kick in the nads, I also prefer governors to senators. I'm also hinky about folks who hold to a theology you describe, messing with other people and their stuff.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
The birthday of our lives is here! Donald Trump threw his hat into the ring today. The GOP clown car now has its driver -- let the rejoicing commence!
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
The birthday of our lives is here! Donald Trump threw his hat into the ring today. The GOP clown car now has its driver -- let the rejoicing commence!
Here's some polling analysis of why Mr. Trump is a terrible candidate.
quote:
[P]opularity is performance in politics, and Trump is the first candidate in modern presidential primary history to begin the campaign with a majority of his own party disliking him. A whopping 57 percent of Republicans have an unfavorable view of Trump, according to an average of the three most recent polls. That beats former record holder Pat Buchanan, who had a 43 percent unfavorable rating at this point in the 2000 election cycle.¹ Buchanan, of course, ended up running as an independent.
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¹For each candidate, I averaged the three most recent polls in the first half of the year before the primaries. But for some candidates, only one or two polls were available.
The included graph is also amusing.
Trump's entry brings the Republican field to 12 declared candidates. Bobby Jindal is supposed to be lucky #13 on June 24. That leaves Chris Christie, John Kasich, and Scott Walker as the only Republicans with exploratory committees who haven't either announced their candidacies or scheduled to do so. I'd be surprised if Scott Walker didn't jump in, so let's say the Republican field is at least 14 candidates. The logistics of staging a "debate" between that many candidates is starting to look problematic.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
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Posted
Kasich attends an ACNA church in Westerville, Ohio (near Columbus). Most likely a new plant by ACNA, since Episcopal parishes didn't (by and large) get to keep their property when they left.
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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
Posts: 2512 | From: Oakland, CA | Registered: Feb 2008
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
I'm not thoroughly convinced Trump doesn't go on youtube and study Ric Flair speeches.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
The birthday of our lives is here! Donald Trump threw his hat into the ring today. The GOP clown car now has its driver -- let the rejoicing commence!
Question from a foreigner who doesn't really have the measure of US politics. Is Donald Trump well regarded and widely seen either in the US or in a significant part of US public opinion, as presidential material?
Most of the other names mentioned are unknown outside the US, but we have heard of Donald Trump. Unless he has hidden talents that we know not of, it is difficult to take him seriously as a potential leader of the free world.
Here is Dame Judy Dench on the subject.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
He adds some much needed seriousness to the GOP field.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
In all seriousness, Trump is utterly unelectable. A party may be seized by dementia and put a nut or a loon on the ballot. (Sarah Palin, you have mail!) But the electorate won't vote them in. We're not absolutely suicidal, mostly.
The reason he is to be feared is because he is a spoiler. He may, from pure nuttiness, draw support and money away from more viable candidates. And he is certainly, from pure name recognition, going to muscle his way onto the stage for the main GOP debate, which is (at this writing) going to be selected by popularity poll. No, if I were the GOP the last person I would wish to see is Trump. The man may be relied upon to blurt idiocies that will tar the entire brand. (See Trutherism.)
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
... The reason he is to be feared is because he is a spoiler. He may, from pure nuttiness, draw support and money away from more viable candidates. ...
Yes, we have those too. We've even got a whole party of them. They got quite a lot of votes, but only got one seat in the recent election.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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art dunce
Shipmate
# 9258
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
He adds some much needed seriousness to the GOP field.
![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
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Ego is not your amigo.
Posts: 1283 | From: in the studio | Registered: Apr 2005
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
LeRoc--
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
He adds some much needed seriousness to the GOP field.
Are you being serious or sarcastic, please? Thanks.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Brenda--
Yes, but... (re Trump)
--People do sometimes elect a nutter, or someone who's incapable, or unqualified, etc. IMHO, Dubya Bush springs to mind.
--People who are overly enamored of Trump's "Apprentice" reality shows and celebrities in general may feel he's a fine choice.
--Trump's still a Truther, and there are others out there. And they may be as relieved to get rid of Obama and get a Truther as many, many people were to get rid of Dubya and get Obama.
We may not be out of the Truther woods yet...
![[Help]](graemlins/help.gif)
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
His financial record will do for him - didn't he famously get a billion pounds in (entirely legal) debt during the eighties ?
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
I was referring to a statement from the Democratic National Committee after Donald Trump announced that he would run. More information here.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
LeRoc--
Aha. ROTFL. Thanks for the link!
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
... People do sometimes elect a nutter, or someone who's incapable, or unqualified, etc. IMHO, Dubya Bush springs to mind. ...
It was a well known Italian who had sprung to my mind.
Incidentally, what's a 'Truther'?
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
Incidentally, what's a 'Truther'?
A Truther is a conspiracy theorist—especially one who believes that 9/11 was actually orchestrated by the government, that Obama was actually born in Africa and is Muslim, or the like—and who is intent on exposing the "truth."
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
Posts: 2833 | From: On heaven-crammed earth | Registered: Sep 2009
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
A crackpot then.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Enoch: A crackpot then.
That's what they *want* you to think.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nick Tamen:
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
Incidentally, what's a 'Truther'?
A Truther is a conspiracy theorist—especially one who believes that 9/11 was actually orchestrated by the government, that Obama was actually born in Africa and is Muslim, or the like—and who is intent on exposing the "truth."
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/08/03/each_party_has_its_fanatics_97748.html
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
There are a few things about Donald Trump that puzzle me:
1. Why does have what looks like shredded wheat for hair?
2. Does he realise that his surname can mean 'to fart'?
Apart from that, where's he going to get the money from to fund his bid for the White House? His business ventures aren't doing that brilliantly at the moment.
I'm assuming his pitch or the presidency is going to take precedence over his bid to build another golf complex in Ireland. And it looks unlikely that he'll be able to devote much time to his Aberdeenshire venture which is haemorrhaging money, despite the fact that he's only provided 67 of the 6,000 jobs he promised in order to get planning permission to lay waste an SSSI.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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TurquoiseTastic
Fish of a different color
# 8978
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
In all seriousness, Trump is utterly unelectable. A party may be seized by dementia and put a nut or a loon on the ballot. (Sarah Palin, you have mail!) But the electorate won't vote them in. We're not absolutely suicidal, mostly.
What would happen if both main parties nominated a nut in the same year?
Posts: 1092 | From: Hants., UK | Registered: Jan 2005
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
quote:
Originally posted by Nick Tamen:
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
Incidentally, what's a 'Truther'?
A Truther is a conspiracy theorist—especially one who believes that 9/11 was actually orchestrated by the government, that Obama was actually born in Africa and is Muslim, or the like—and who is intent on exposing the "truth."
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/08/03/each_party_has_its_fanatics_97748.html
Is that article really true? If nobody holds both crackpot ideas at the same time, and assuming approximately 50% of Americans support one party and 50% the other, that would mean ⅓ of the electorate are crackpots. I could possibly, just about, credit ⅓ of backbench politicians are crackpots, but of the American people, no.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
quote:
Originally posted by Nick Tamen:
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
Incidentally, what's a 'Truther'?
A Truther is a conspiracy theorist—especially one who believes that 9/11 was actually orchestrated by the government, that Obama was actually born in Africa and is Muslim, or the like—and who is intent on exposing the "truth."
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/08/03/each_party_has_its_fanatics_97748.html
Is that article really true? If nobody holds both crackpot ideas at the same time, and assuming approximately 50% of Americans support one party and 50% the other, that would mean ⅓ of the electorate are crackpots. I could possibly, just about, credit ⅓ of backbench politicians are crackpots, but of the American people, no.
I'd say that is what appeared to be true to the author at the time he wrote it. I don't really disagree with him, though.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
Trump is not (in his heart of hearts) actually hoping to win an election. He is not even hoping to become the GOP nominee. He is in this to juice his brand. He wants to be on the stage at the debates and get a free commercial for his various frauds, shows, and enterprises. It is a purely financial thing. He certainly does not give a penny piece about any other human being on this planet.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by TurquoiseTastic:
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
In all seriousness, Trump is utterly unelectable. A party may be seized by dementia and put a nut or a loon on the ballot. (Sarah Palin, you have mail!) But the electorate won't vote them in. We're not absolutely suicidal, mostly.
What would happen if both main parties nominated a nut in the same year?
We aren't doing that already?
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
A party may be seized by dementia and put a nut or a loon on the ballot. (Sarah Palin, you have mail!) But the electorate won't vote them in.
To everyone's surprise, the people of Wisconsin elected professional wrestler Jesse Ventura as governor in 1998. He turned out to be not a bad governor.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
A party may be seized by dementia and put a nut or a loon on the ballot. (Sarah Palin, you have mail!) But the electorate won't vote them in.
To everyone's surprise, the people of Wisconsin elected professional wrestler Jesse Ventura as governor in 1998. He turned out to be not a bad governor.
Minnesota
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/08/03/each_party_has_its_fanatics_97748.html
Is that article really true?
Hard to say. The 9/11 poll referenced was conducted in 2007, and there's always the question of wording. An ambiguously worded question could lump together people who believe the Twin Towers were brought down by a secretly arranged controlled detonation and those who knew of the existence of the "Bin Laden determined to strike in US" memo as those who "believe George W. Bush had advance knowledge of the 9/11 terrorist attacks". There doesn't seem to be a lot of more recent polling on the subject. Those that do exist mostly indicate Rasmussen's results were an outlier.
Of course, the main point of such articles is to create a false equivalency, which mostly serves to shut down any kind of thoughtful analysis (both sides are exactly equal in crackpottery) and to give the reader a sense of his or her own moral/intellectual superiority over all those fools. I'm pretty sure that no Democratic presidential candidate has suggested George W. Bush was secretly behind the 9/11 attacks. On the other hand some of Republican presidential candidates (Huckabee and Trump) have played around with the idea that Barack Obama is really from Kenya.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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