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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: UK General Election June 8th 2017
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Gee D
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# 13815
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Posted
Ian Climacus , I'm going to be very charitable and suggest that as she spoke, a passer-by, anxious to keep Ms Abbott well informed and up-to-date, traits for which she's so well known, was flashing cards with the latest figures on them, just outside camera range. And not where the interviewer could see them either.
Yet another nail in the coffin for the reforms that Attlee introduced and which were an accepted part of British mores for so long.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
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Eirenist
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# 13343
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Posted
Never mind Diane Abbott. How can an avowed republican serve loyally as Prime Minister to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II?
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'I think I think, therefore I think I am'
Posts: 486 | From: Darkest Metroland | Registered: Jan 2008
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lowlands_boy
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# 12497
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eirenist:
Never mind Diane Abbott. How can an avowed republican serve loyally as Prime Minister to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II?
Perhaps in reality that doesn't really matter any more. If he wins the election, Queenie is hardly going to refuse to go along with it is she?
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I thought I should update my signature line....
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eirenist:
Never mind Diane Abbott. How can an avowed republican serve loyally as Prime Minister to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II?
One can accept the world as it is and work within its structures without necessarily approving of them.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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mr cheesy
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# 3330
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eirenist:
Never mind Diane Abbott. How can an avowed republican serve loyally as Prime Minister to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II?
The Tories are going to win on a platform of kicking schoolchildren, kicking the NHS, kicking the disabled, kicking old people, punishing the poor, unemployed, sick. They've got a platform which is clearly bad for a very large percentage of the population.
And the best response put forward here is "oh, that nasty Corbyn liked the IRA*, that Dianne Abbot can't remember numbers, and they don't even respect the monarchy".
Politics is truly dead.
*I mean seriously. Have any of you seen the way May and her mates fawn over the Saudis?
[ 25. May 2017, 16:11: Message edited by: mr cheesy ]
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arse
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Eirenist
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# 13343
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Posted
I'm no Tory, but what's happened to J.C.'s 'authenticity' and 'integrity' if he takes an oath of loyalty to the Queen? These things matter, and people have died for them.
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'I think I think, therefore I think I am'
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quetzalcoatl
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# 16740
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Posted
Yeah, but the Saudis are very very important. They're very rich, they buy tons of weapons from the UK, so they can bomb Yemen, and more important, they sponsor Wahhabism, which is behind many fundamentalist groups.
I call that a win/win and a triumph for Western diplomacy.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eirenist:
I'm no Tory, but what's happened to J.C.'s 'authenticity' and 'integrity' if he takes an oath of loyalty to the Queen? These things matter, and people have died for them.
I was just walking today in Newport, where the Uprising of 1839 led to people dying, being executed and transported - for the sake of things we now take for granted - including the secret ballot, payment of MPs and a vote for everyone.
Although the oaths of office are written in the language of loyalty to the crown, it is in fact loyalty to the Chartist ideals which make this country great.
Hence plenty of republicans have been able to get over any potential problems with the oaths.
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arse
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Dafyd
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# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eirenist:
How can an avowed republican serve loyally as Prime Minister to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II?
I would suppose there's an interesting legal answer, probably to do with the Queen's Two Bodies, and I would suppose it's probably invoked whenever a republican takes office as an MP. Practically I think it's generally recognised that as long as he pursues only legal and constitutional paths to a Republic he is loyal to the UK people as a whole.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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lilBuddha
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# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
considers "British People" to be racist,
Britain is a racist society. Not everyone in it and not all to the same degree, but it is still racist as a whole. Strides have been made, but anyone who actually thinks otherwise is blind.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
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Leorning Cniht
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# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
In an interview carried in Labour and Ireland (volume 2, number 5) a journal published by the Labour Committee on Ireland (which still exists, largely funded by various unions), Ms Abbot was quoted as follows
When was this? I can't find a date for this with a quick search. Diane Abbott is 63.
LilBuddha is right to say that there is still racism in British society; it is also right to say that there is much less racism than there was 40 years ago.
The statement "most British people don't see us as British" was true in Diane Abbott's youth, and IMO is largely false now.
Ah - now I find from Wikipedia that that was a quote from 1984. It sounds like a reasonable enough claim for that era.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Pangolin Guerre
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# 18686
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
quote:
Originally posted by Eirenist:
Never mind Diane Abbott. How can an avowed republican serve loyally as Prime Minister to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II?
One can accept the world as it is and work within its structures without necessarily approving of them.
Indeed. In Canada, we have had governments in Quebec, and the Official Opposition in the federal Parliament, formed by Quebec separatist parties, swearing allegiance to the Queen. Not to say that scruple is a luxury, but an excess thereof...
Posts: 758 | From: 30 arpents de neige | Registered: Nov 2016
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eirenist:
Never mind Diane Abbott. How can an avowed republican serve loyally as Prime Minister to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II?
Just as I did on my admission, all those years ago: I swore allegiance to HM and to "her heirs and successors according to law". In other words, my allegiance to HM will cease when a republic come about by lawful means. Nothing there to stop my advocating for that sort of change.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
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Cod
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# 2643
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eirenist:
I'm no Tory, but what's happened to J.C.'s 'authenticity' and 'integrity' if he takes an oath of loyalty to the Queen? These things matter, and people have died for them.
If you mean the vote he'd take as PM, I'd say he'd have won the election by then.
There is a ferment in the polling blogs. It appears that the first poll based on fieldwork after the bombing continues to show the Tory lead narrowing.
Perhaps people don't trust May to keep them safe.
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Whether opening dialogue between UK authorities and the radical (or, radicalisable) communities within the UK will produce significant and rapid reductions in terrorist incidents is difficult to judge (not least when the rate of terrorist attacks in the UK is very low it's difficult to measure changes in that rate).
It depends. I agree with previous posters that there is no negotiation with ISIS - not because negotiation is weakness, but because there is nothing they want that it would be morally licit or feasible to give them. In this respect they are qualitatively different from the IRA or even Hamas, and different only in degree from Nazis.
In terms of trying to dissuade people from joining ISIS in the first place, the government are already trying to do this - it is called Channel and is part of the Prevent strategy. There are varying opinions on the Internet about whether it works or not. It is then relevant to ask whether Mr Corbyn has the skills to make it work.
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
LilBuddha is right to say that there is still racism in British society; it is also right to say that there is much less racism than there was 40 years ago.
The statement "most British people don't see us as British" was true in Diane Abbott's youth, and IMO is largely false now.
Ah - now I find from Wikipedia that that was a quote from 1984. It sounds like a reasonable enough claim for that era.
There is a fairly good biography of Ms Abbott here - it does seem to me that she was entirely justified in having a chip on her shoulder in 1984.
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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Rocinante
Shipmate
# 18541
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Posted
YouGov has the Tory lead down to 5 points. I still think the Tories will win, but not by a landslide, and in that case May will not be able to claim an overwhelming mandate for hard Brexit.
Corbyn is betting the farm by blaming western foreign policy for radicalising jihadists - Could send his poll numbers 10 points either way. I'm starting to think that the bumbling polytechnic lecturer has a core of steel. The "apologist for terrorism" attacks just seen to bounce off him.
Posts: 384 | From: UK | Registered: Jan 2016
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lowlands_boy
Shipmate
# 12497
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rocinante:
YouGov has the Tory lead down to 5 points. I still think the Tories will win, but not by a landslide, and in that case May will not be able to claim an overwhelming mandate for hard Brexit.
Corbyn is betting the farm by blaming western foreign policy for radicalising jihadists - Could send his poll numbers 10 points either way. I'm starting to think that the bumbling polytechnic lecturer has a core of steel. The "apologist for terrorism" attacks just seen to bounce off him.
The analysis I've read seems to suggest it's more down to the hideous mess May has made over the dementia tax and u-turn(s) on a cap.
Interesting times either way, but I agree that the next big thing will be the reaction to Corbyn's speech.
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I thought I should update my signature line....
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rocinante:
YouGov has the Tory lead down to 5 points. I still think the Tories will win, but not by a landslide, and in that case May will not be able to claim an overwhelming mandate for hard Brexit.
Corbyn is betting the farm by blaming western foreign policy for radicalising jihadists - Could send his poll numbers 10 points either way. I'm starting to think that the bumbling polytechnic lecturer has a core of steel. The "apologist for terrorism" attacks just seen to bounce off him.
Whilst I think that it would be pants-wettingly hilarious if May could only beat Corbyn by the same order of magnitude that Cameron beat Miliband, it should be remembered that this is but one poll. At one point during the 1997 campaign the Tories closed into within 5% of Labour's vote. You may recall that it didn't quite work out for them on the night.
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001
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lowlands_boy
Shipmate
# 12497
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Callan:
quote:
Originally posted by Rocinante:
YouGov has the Tory lead down to 5 points. I still think the Tories will win, but not by a landslide, and in that case May will not be able to claim an overwhelming mandate for hard Brexit.
Corbyn is betting the farm by blaming western foreign policy for radicalising jihadists - Could send his poll numbers 10 points either way. I'm starting to think that the bumbling polytechnic lecturer has a core of steel. The "apologist for terrorism" attacks just seen to bounce off him.
Whilst I think that it would be pants-wettingly hilarious if May could only beat Corbyn by the same order of magnitude that Cameron beat Miliband, it should be remembered that this is but one poll. At one point during the 1997 campaign the Tories closed into within 5% of Labour's vote. You may recall that it didn't quite work out for them on the night.
Also if we are talking about Corbyn's poll ratings, there is still a 17 point gap in the "favourability ratings" of May and Corbyn, at +1 to -16.
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I thought I should update my signature line....
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lowlands_boy:
Also if we are talking about Corbyn's poll ratings, there is still a 17 point gap in the "favourability ratings" of May and Corbyn, at +1 to -16.
Two weeks for some dirt to emerge regarding Theresa May. Most of the Tories have had an easy ride from Labour so far, with the exception of Ian Duncan Smith's attempt to cut welfare spending by killing the recipients.
[ 26. May 2017, 11:27: Message edited by: Sioni Sais ]
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
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lowlands_boy
Shipmate
# 12497
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by lowlands_boy:
Also if we are talking about Corbyn's poll ratings, there is still a 17 point gap in the "favourability ratings" of May and Corbyn, at +1 to -16.
Two weeks for some dirt to emerge regarding Theresa May. Most of the Tories have had an easy ride from Labour so far, with the exception of Ian Duncan Smith's attempt to cut welfare spending by killing the recipients.
"Home Secretary May presided over massive cuts to the police force, leaving terrorists to blow your kids up". I don't think Labour will have the balls for that. UKIP seemed to try and blame May for not getting a grip on immigration yesterday, and predictably it got rather hot.
Hammering away at other aspects of her record as home secretary should be quite possible though, as I'm sure there's plenty of lamentable things about it. Perhaps Labour have made a conscious decision not to "get personal"? But there's plenty of ball to be played, without playing the (wo)man, I would have thought.
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I thought I should update my signature line....
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Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eirenist:
I'm no Tory, but what's happened to J.C.'s 'authenticity' and 'integrity' if he takes an oath of loyalty to the Queen? These things matter, and people have died for them.
He took an oath (actually probably an affirmation) took the Queen every time he became an MP. A purely symbolic oath is not worth refusing to take your seat over.
Posts: 2933 | From: Hebrides | Registered: Apr 2012
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rocinante:
YouGov has the Tory lead down to 5 points. I still think the Tories will win, but not by a landslide, and in that case May will not be able to claim an overwhelming mandate for hard Brexit.
Corbyn is betting the farm by blaming western foreign policy for radicalising jihadists - Could send his poll numbers 10 points either way. I'm starting to think that the bumbling polytechnic lecturer has a core of steel. The "apologist for terrorism" attacks just seen to bounce off him.
I don't think he's betting the farm; it's what he believes, and probably has since Iraq. But watch the right wing distort it.
He is a tough old thing, for sure.
I agree that the Tories will win, but Labour will be pleased to avoid a landslide.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
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lowlands_boy
Shipmate
# 12497
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Arethosemyfeet:
quote:
Originally posted by Eirenist:
I'm no Tory, but what's happened to J.C.'s 'authenticity' and 'integrity' if he takes an oath of loyalty to the Queen? These things matter, and people have died for them.
He took an oath (actually probably an affirmation) took the Queen every time he became an MP. A purely symbolic oath is not worth refusing to take your seat over.
Tell that to Sinn Fein.
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I thought I should update my signature line....
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lowlands_boy:
quote:
Originally posted by Arethosemyfeet:
quote:
Originally posted by Eirenist:
I'm no Tory, but what's happened to J.C.'s 'authenticity' and 'integrity' if he takes an oath of loyalty to the Queen? These things matter, and people have died for them.
He took an oath (actually probably an affirmation) took the Queen every time he became an MP. A purely symbolic oath is not worth refusing to take your seat over.
Tell that to Sinn Fein.
IIRC, that was (and may still be) a consequence of Sinn Fein party policy. Jeremy Corbyn was and is a member of the Labour Party which has no such policy. Sorry to be so dull and boring.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
I have realized to my great shame, that I have been asking questions about police cuts, but I now realize that this was unpatriotic, in fact, sympathetic to terrorism, and I hereby abjectly renounce this, and vow henceforth to take as gospel all words delivered by the Great Leader, even those which contradict each other. But how foul even to say that! She cannot contradict herself!
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by lowlands_boy:
Also if we are talking about Corbyn's poll ratings, there is still a 17 point gap in the "favourability ratings" of May and Corbyn, at +1 to -16.
Two weeks for some dirt to emerge regarding Theresa May. Most of the Tories have had an easy ride from Labour so far, with the exception of Ian Duncan Smith's attempt to cut welfare spending by killing the recipients.
Dirt cuts both ways.
I am fairly certain that Mrs May keeps in a desk drawer a slim but interesting file, put together at Mr Cameron's behest when Mr Corbyn became Leader of the Opposition. One of the younger Spads made the mistake of referring to it as "the nuclear option" in Mrs May's hearing, and no one has made the mistake subsequently, but in private, when Mrs May is not in earshot, they call it nothing else. The file caused some froideur between the head of MI5 and Mr Cameron because Mr Parker guards his secrets jealously and Mr Cameron resented Mr Parker's jocular remark that if the couldn't beat Mr Corbyn in a fair fight, he didn't deserve to be Prime Minister. Mrs May uttered similar sentiments when she first learned of the file's existence but pretended not to hear when Sir Jeremy Heywood offered to have the contents shredded. Not least of the concerns of Mr Timothy and Ms Hill is whether the Sun or the Mail is to have the privilege of this particular exclusive, should circumstances make it their painful duty to make the contents public.
"Seriously, Nick, how damaging do you think this really is if it comes to the attention of a fair minded member of the British public".
"Prime Minister, we're not going to leak it to a fair minded member of the British public. We're going to leak it to Paul Dacre".
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
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Rocinante
Shipmate
# 18541
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Posted
I do so hope that happens because (a) I'd love to know what's in the file, it will distract me from my angst-ridden menial existence for, oh, at least twenty minutes, and (b) because it will be a surefire indication that the Tories have realised that they've lost the arguments and lost the campaign. If Labour spun it the right way it could clinch a Trumpian upset.
I mean, what exactly have they got? Corbyn talked to the IRA before it was socially acceptable to do so? He once appeared on the Iranian version of Andrew Marr? I believe the phrase is "priced in".
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
Originally posted by Rocinante:
quote:
I mean, what exactly have they got? Corbyn talked to the IRA before it was socially acceptable to do so? He once appeared on the Iranian version of Andrew Marr? I believe the phrase is "priced in".
Actually, if they are keeping something up their sleeve it is likely to be rather serious. Most of us will admit to opinions in private, among friends, that we would hesitate to express in polite company. Given what we know about JC in the public domain, it's not outwith the grounds of plausibility that there is something yet to come.
Against this there is the consideration that a degree of naivety appears to be part of Mr Corbyn's make up and that he has expressed no opinion in private that he would not announce on a podium. If this is the case, it is to his credit. I remember that when the Mail ran a hit job on Ralph Miliband being seriously impressed as to the paucity of the case against him. A hardline Marxist who gave so few hostages to fortune was a rarity among the left wing intellectuals of his generation. It may be that the worst about Corbyn is already in the public domain and, as you say, priced in.
The other factor that mitigates against the existence of The File is that, whilst MI5 would have been asleep at the wheel if, say, they weren't bugging Gerry Adam's phone in the '80s they might not wish to cough to that, even at this late juncture. It would be amusingly ironic if Mi5 had a shed load of dirt on him but came over all 'REDACTED' when it came to publicising it.
We have different opinions of Corbyn, on this thread, I am not a fan, although he appears to be doing surprisingly well, at present. But I would be surprised if there was anyone who thought that Cameron or May were too principled to get on the blower to MI5 or Special Branch to see what dirt they had
A final thought. I wonder what Mr Osborne learned when he was in government and whether he might choose to keep his counsel or make something public so that it was the Standard what won it.
Given that the country is about to go to hell in a handcart after June the 8th, one must take ones entertainment where one can find it.
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Callan:
I am fairly certain that Mrs May keeps in a desk drawer a slim but interesting file,
However facetiously, you are giving May credit of a control and understanding that she has so far failed to demonstrate.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
Labour certainly is closing the gap on today's figures. Care to think about a world where Trump is US president and Corbyn UK Prime Minister?
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
Labour certainly is closing the gap on today's figures. Care to think about a world where Trump is US president and Corbyn UK Prime Minister?
I'm not certain your point. For all his issues, Corbyn is more qualified for simply being an adult. Even May is not in the same league of incompetent as Trump.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
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Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
Labour certainly is closing the gap on today's figures. Care to think about a world where Trump is US president and Corbyn UK Prime Minister?
A heck of a lot more pleasant thought than one with Trump as President and May as PM. At least Corbyn won't be providing cover for Trump starting a war with Iran.
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
Neither has had any experience of governing, of developing and implementing policy, of carrying out the myriad tasks of day-to-day government. Corbyn has had very limited experience outside parliament save for being a union organiser and then a party official - at least Trump for all his faults has had a wider background than that.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
We know Corbyn is less likely to cave under pressure than May.
He also benefits from the assistance of a cabinet and civil service, with whom he is likely to actually discuss policy choices, (unlike May, apparently planning a major social care policy change with out reference to more than a handful of people).
He has sat in the Houses of Parliament for decades, so he actually knows how the UK legislature and constitution works (unlike, it would appear, Trump's understanding of US government.)
Many of the policies he espouses enjoy the support of voters.
He is able to draw, and maintain, a distinction between - this is what I personally would want in my ideal world, and this is what we have democratically agreed we will do and I will lead a government to deliver.
He has actually ensured the party policies are costed, and allowed for a change in people's behaviour in response to tax changes.
He has chosen a highly intelligent and well informed lawyer mp to lead the Brexit negotiation.
If Labour wins, I am sure the country will still be functioning in five years time. I hope and believe it will be functioning better than it is now.
[ 27. May 2017, 07:06: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
Corbyn certainly has had the experience to which you refer of being an MP for many years - something Trump sorely lacks. His time as Leader of the Opposition does not suggest to me that he has the ability to work with a team either of parliamentary colleagues or the civil service.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
Corbyn's ability to hang on under pressure has not gone unnoticed by the masses, niether has Cameron's disappearing act post Brexit.
He is right to question Britain's foreign policy, even though most have long since given up wondering what that policy actually is other than hanging on to America's coat tails.
The big problem for Labour on that score is Blair's more than enthusiastic support for Bush post 9/11, the fall out from Arab Spring together all the oil-grabbing crap which currently seems to make the World go around.
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Even May is not in the same league of incompetent as Trump.
TBH, that is a very exclusive league.
Something has occurred to me over the last week - and referenced by some things people are saying on Twitter - does May actually want to win?
Let me explain my thinking. She knows what the next government has to face. Brexit negotiations, Trump, the problems of the economic chaos the Tories have caused. Maybe she realises that the next administration is screwed - because she has screwed it. So she wants someone else to have the responsibility for that.
The only reason I would consider this is that I think the second Major government did the same - they expected to lose, and were stitched up when they won. Leaving the next election for Blair to win.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
I dunno, that seems unlikely.
But I'd have thought that if May ends up in a new parliament with a similar or even reduced majority, she's going to find it very hard to remain in charge.
After all she said she wanted the election to give her a strong mandate. If it doesn't give one, then she's personally politically finished even if she gets a majority, one would think.
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arse
Posts: 10697 | Registered: Sep 2002
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
Although - I don't understand the reasoning behind the Tories apparently shelving the idea of an election relaunch. If they don't do it today or tomorrow, when are they going to do it?
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arse
Posts: 10697 | Registered: Sep 2002
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
Corbyn certainly has had the experience to which you refer of being an MP for many years - something Trump sorely lacks. His time as Leader of the Opposition does not suggest to me that he has the ability to work with a team either of parliamentary colleagues or the civil service.
That is true. On the other hand, Corbyn has showed vague signs of being willing to learn. May's time as Prime Minister has equally not shown ability to work with colleagues or the civil service, beyond a certain ability to deflect blame onto other people (remember Hammond's budget?) and little interest in learning.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
at least Trump for all his faults has had a wider background than that.
Really? He ran a property empire that his father set up* and had a reality show. What else has he done?
*One that he ran less effectively than he claims. Daddy had to bail him out more than once and still he would have made more letting the money sit in a low risk investment account.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lowlands_boy:
Tell that to Sinn Fein.
That's rather different. Most republicans in the UK accept that our current constitutional monarchy is legitimate, and supported by a majority of people in the UK. They would like to change that state of affairs by normal democratic means, such that the heirs and successors of HM are the new British Republic. It's not inconsistent to take the oath on that basis.
Sinn Fein think that the British presence in Ireland is an illegitimate occupation, and so far as I can tell that the unionist residents of NI are British settlers who have no particular right to even live in Ireland, let alone vote for it to remain in the UK. And so because they don't think that the Westminster government is in any way the legitimate government of NI, they don't feel able to pledge allegiance to Her Majesty.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Sarah G
Shipmate
# 11669
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
That is true. On the other hand, Corbyn has showed vague signs of being willing to learn.
Vague to the point of vanishing. And this article is written by a would-be friend.
quote:
May's time as Prime Minister has equally not shown ability to work with colleagues
Er...ability to work with colleagues? He's managed to anger even those who were trying to work with him. Many of those MPs who supported the no confidence motion started out as supporters!
The main problem appears to be his lack of competence as a leader.
Posts: 514 | Registered: Jul 2006
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
The Tory media is already desperate. The Torygraph was trying to smear Corbyn the other day for being paid as an MP for as long as he's been one and qualifying for a pension. Like all the others.
The bastard.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
Especially as he's probably done more to earn that salary and pension than several Tory MPs.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
...and I doubt if he's fiddled his expenses in order to finance a splendid new house for his ducks.
![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
He's got a reputation as not claiming much in expenses at all. Though, being a London MP would make his expenses much less, no second home needed, little in the way of travel.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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