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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: UK General Election June 8th 2017
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sarah G:
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
quote:
Originally posted by Sarah G:
If the Tories did a U-turn on social care, Corbyn's driving with the handbrake on over Trident.
The difference being that Tory social care (and other) policies are killing people. Whereas Trident is a massive investment that could be better spent stopping people from being killed, but is instead squandered on a system that no sane human being would ever use.
Hang on a minute. The Tory U-turn on social care was all about at what point someone pays for their existing care. No OAPs were ever going to die in the making, or unmaking, of this policy.
On the other hand, renewing Trident, paying masses and masses of money just to be able to kill innocent civilians, is Labour party policy. Muddleheaded is the new normal for them.
Doublethink has already addressed the social care point.
re: Trident, it is (of course) Labour policy to renew it even though it's well known that Corbyn is personally against renewal. You said that on this a Labour government under Corbyn would be "driving with the handbrake on" over renewal - which I took to mean you thought Corbyn would find ways to delay the implementation of the Trident renewal. Which is something I would agree with - the priority of a new government should be trying to get the UK out of the total mess the Tories have left us (eg: sort out a form of Brexit that won't wreck everything, invest in the NHS, schools, social care, public transport, affordable and social housing, etc) rather than waste money on a massive white elephant. That would still be the case even if I thought we needed a nuclear deterrent (which we don't need).
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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lowlands_boy
Shipmate
# 12497
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Posted
Sterling is on the slide in the financial markets this morning as a result of new polling showing that it could be a hung parliament on the 9th June....
Wonder how David Cameron is feeling at the moment?
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I thought I should update my signature line....
Posts: 836 | From: North West UK | Registered: Apr 2007
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
quote:
Originally posted by Sarah G:
Like them, my views aren't on the ballot paper this time round.
Swings and roundabouts. First time in years that mine have been.
Sadly I believe as far as spending on public services, the NHS, etc go, Labour's manifesto is somewhere to the right of Blair. The NHS costs have risen by about 4% a year since it was founded. Labour are promising 2% which is generous only by comparison with the Tories.
No doubt this is down to the double standards in the media whereby Labour must first show they're not going to tax or borrow anything before they're given a hearing, while the Conservatives can fritter money away like they're an eighties lottery winner.
ETA: you could both have what you want if we didn't have First Past the Post which is a shoddy excuse for an electoral system.
[ 31. May 2017, 08:20: Message edited by: Dafyd ]
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sarah G:
Jeremy Corbyn seems unaware that his decision to unfreeze benefits hasn't been costed (at £3bn), and he doesn't seem to know how much his childcare policy will cost.
The childcare policy has been costed in the manifesto. I don't see that politicians should be under an obligation to memorise every figure in their manifesto. I wouldn't want them trying to make those kinds of decisions without the actual figures in front of them.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
The NHS costs have risen by about 4% a year since it was founded. Labour are promising 2% which is generous only by comparison with the Tories.
A significant part of which in recent years has been down to decimation of social care. I don't think any of the parties are doing enough to reverse that and put in place resources to provide the best care for the elderly - which in almost all cases will not be in hospitals.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Arethosemyfeet:
Otherwise explain why you feel the need to dig up and argue about a year old post.
You dug up a slander - sorry, attack with a "slightly over-broad brush" from the year old leadership contest. As I said, I wasn't persuaded. Such attacks have all the credibility of a Tory election poster on Labour or a Daily Mail leader on Brexit.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Cod
Shipmate
# 2643
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lowlands_boy:
Sterling is on the slide in the financial markets this morning as a result of new polling showing that it could be a hung parliament on the 9th June....
Wonder how David Cameron is feeling at the moment?
The most recent polls (ie, today) show as follows:
Con: 43 - 45
Lab: 33 - 37
LD: 8 - 9
UKIP: 4-5
The polls over the last fortnight have shown the Tory lead reducing considerably. However, there are reasons to believe the polls aren't accurate.
1. Younger people are harder to poll: they tend not to respond to surveys. Those who have been polled are overwhelmingly for Labour, however, they are less likely to turn out to vote.
2. Older people are becoming harder to poll: they tend to be Tory.
As an interesting aside, if the most recent polls were published with the weighting used in 2015, they would have shown more support for Labour with Corbyn at the helm than any did for Miliband. It seems that Corbyn may be quite popular with the public after all.
I can't see any alternative to a Tory win, however, unless the polls have once again underestimated Tory support, it won't be a landslide.
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"I fart in your general direction."
M Barnier
Posts: 4229 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Apr 2002
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Rocinante
Shipmate
# 18541
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lowlands_boy:
Sterling is on the slide in the financial markets this morning as a result of new polling showing that it could be a hung parliament on the 9th June....
Wonder how David Cameron is feeling at the moment?
I can't be sure, but I doubt he's feeling much in the way of guilt or regret for having plunged the Country into a decade or more of chaos, confusion and economic slump. Nor will he be regretting his precipitous resignation; he'd probably been planning a lucrative post-No.10 career for some time, and must have realised that the 2015 election was the zenith of his political life.
Cameron is of a type we see far too often in politics and in working life, a dilettante who moves serenely from disaster to catastrophe and who always gets the opportunity to cause more mayhem because he projects an aura of supreme self-confidence which takes in gullible recruiters and voters. This aura is derived from a misplaced conviction of his own brilliance, which it would never occur to him to question.
AIR he originally got the job because he gave his hustings speech at the Tory conference without notes, something which always impresses the easily-impressed. The Tory membership then had a "Blair moment" and saw a shortcut back to power by picking a young leader with a nice smile.
I'll vote for a grizzled old socialist every time, thanks.
Posts: 384 | From: UK | Registered: Jan 2016
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chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rocinante:
Cameron is of a type we see far too often in politics and in working life, a dilettante who moves serenely from disaster to catastrophe and who always gets the opportunity to cause more mayhem because he projects an aura of supreme self-confidence which takes in gullible recruiters and voters. This aura is derived from a misplaced conviction of his own brilliance, which it would never occur to him to question.
![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif) ISTR he originally decided to be PM because he thought he'd 'be rather good at it'.
[ 31. May 2017, 09:25: Message edited by: chris stiles ]
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
I'm waiting for serious attempts to show that the Tory proposals are any better than Labour's. Any bloody good at all TBH. So far, they aren't within a mile, when you hear of them.
It's a clear instance of "Keep politics out, keep the Tories in".
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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MarsmanTJ
Shipmate
# 8689
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Posted
Corbyn is doing the debate. So far, May is not. There is no good way to spin this for the Tories so far, so their only hope of not looking like May is running scared is for Corbyn to tank. Will be interesting.
Posts: 238 | Registered: Oct 2004
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lowlands_boy
Shipmate
# 12497
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by MarsmanTJ:
Corbyn is doing the debate. So far, May is not. There is no good way to spin this for the Tories so far, so their only hope of not looking like May is running scared is for Corbyn to tank. Will be interesting.
The Conservatives are putting home secretary Amber Rudd up. I'm surprised they haven't gone for Boris Johnson, who for all his buffoonery is a good performer, and is part of the Brexit team, which is of course what the Conservatives want the whole thing to be about.
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I thought I should update my signature line....
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lowlands_boy:
quote:
Originally posted by MarsmanTJ:
Corbyn is doing the debate. So far, May is not. There is no good way to spin this for the Tories so far, so their only hope of not looking like May is running scared is for Corbyn to tank. Will be interesting.
The Conservatives are putting home secretary Amber Rudd up. I'm surprised they haven't gone for Boris Johnson, who for all his buffoonery is a good performer, and is part of the Brexit team, which is of course what the Conservatives want the whole thing to be about.
Good grief no! The last thing the Conservatives want is their lack of progress made clear to the electorate. They are playing a very low-key campaign for the very reason that they have done nothing and can do nothing.
[ 31. May 2017, 12:30: Message edited by: Sioni Sais ]
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Cod:
I can't see any alternative to a Tory win, however, unless the polls have once again underestimated Tory support, it won't be a landslide.
I'm wondering whether it might be. These tight polls will encourage Tory voters to actually go out and vote and if one is the sort of Labour voter who hates Corbyn I'm not sure how that view would've changed over the past weeks. Part of me still thinks that the Conservatives could win 50-55% of the vote next week.
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
I'm waiting for serious attempts to show that the Tory proposals are any better than Labour's. Any bloody good at all TBH. So far, they aren't within a mile, when you hear of them.
It's a clear instance of "Keep politics out, keep the Tories in".
It's a kind of anti-politics, depending on personal attacks and the supposed presidential allure of the leader. This has not worked at all, since May herself looks ill at ease and gauche, but still, I expect the Tories to win. What strange times we live in. Well, we got through he Thatcher years. More or less.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Well, we got through he Thatcher years. More or less.
We did, but we are all still paying the price ![[Tear]](graemlins/tear.gif)
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Cod
Shipmate
# 2643
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican't:
quote:
Originally posted by Cod:
I can't see any alternative to a Tory win, however, unless the polls have once again underestimated Tory support, it won't be a landslide.
I'm wondering whether it might be. These tight polls will encourage Tory voters to actually go out and vote and if one is the sort of Labour voter who hates Corbyn I'm not sure how that view would've changed over the past weeks. Part of me still thinks that the Conservatives could win 50-55% of the vote next week.
That hasn't happened since 1931 when the Tories got 55%. There hasn't been a single poll this time showing the Tories approaching that figure, and polling companies factor in an extra "shy Tory" adjustment compared to 2015.
The only way I could see it happen is if there is a large group who won't respond to polls and will vote Tory. Something like that happened in the US presidential election last year: marginalised whites in the US backblocks who voted overwhelmingly for Trump. The UKIP vote would be the most likely equivalent, however, UKIP's vote has been pretty well squeezed to death already.
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"I fart in your general direction."
M Barnier
Posts: 4229 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Apr 2002
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Sarah G
Shipmate
# 11669
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
The suicide rate has gone up for a reason.
And I absolutely guarantee you, that if their care change comes in, we will see some elderly people committing suicide because they worry about being a burden to their family. Just as there will be people who decline care they actually need.
Actually it would appear that suicide rates for the elderly have been going down for some time, independent of who is in charge (even Thatcher/Major Tories!). Anyway, our lot have ditched the policy.
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Which is something I would agree with - the priority of a new government should be trying to get the UK out of the total mess the Tories have left us (eg: sort out a form of Brexit that won't wreck everything, invest in the NHS, schools, social care, public transport, affordable and social housing, etc) rather than waste money on a massive white elephant. That would still be the case even if I thought we needed a nuclear deterrent (which we don't need).
The thing is, either you decide that having a nuclear deterrent is essential in a desperately unstable world, and pay the price. Or, you decide there's much better things to spend it on, and don't.
Labour have formally committed themselves to paying the massive price of having a deterrent, but because of what Corbyn has said, it's not any kind of deterrent, to anyone.
The absolute worst of both worlds.
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Sarah G
Shipmate
# 11669
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by chris stiles:
The article you linked to states that it is in fact costed.
I think you're missing the point.
If you're going to do a radio interview in a general election introducing a policy, you make sure you know how much it costs. It's just basic. In case you forget, you have a bit of paper on you to remind you how much it costs.
Now either Corbyn is incompetent in not doing these oh-so-obvious things, or he doesn't regard questions of cost as particularly important, or both.
I remember a few years back being interviewed on local radio about Third World issues. I made sure I had with me any relevant figures and cues for answers to the most obvious questions.
He's a trained and experienced interviewee, and I find it near unbelievable he didn't do even basic research.
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chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sarah G:
quote:
Originally posted by chris stiles:
The article you linked to states that it is in fact costed.
I think you're missing the point.
I was not particularly interested in your point. You stated that it wasn't costed, it was. On the rest of your post - what Dafyd said.
[ 31. May 2017, 21:05: Message edited by: chris stiles ]
Posts: 4035 | From: Berkshire | Registered: May 2007
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
YouGov poll (taken before tonight's debate) has Conservative lead down to 3%.
I'm not one for trusting polls, and I've got a bottle of whisky on standby, but... hope is a terrible, terrible thing.
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Forward the New Republic
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sarah G:
If you're going to do a radio interview in a general election introducing a policy, you make sure you know how much it costs. It's just basic.
Am I right in thinking that some, possibly many if not all, of the policies in the Tory manifesto are uncosted?
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sarah G:
The thing is, either you decide that having a nuclear deterrent is essential in a desperately unstable world, and pay the price. Or, you decide there's much better things to spend it on, and don't.
Labour have formally committed themselves to paying the massive price of having a deterrent, but because of what Corbyn has said, it's not any kind of deterrent, to anyone.
Of course, nuclear weapons aren't a deterrent against any of the dangers of our unstable world anyway. The commitment by Labour to pay vast sums on a vanity project is a mistake. And, if Corbyn as PM manages to have the budget reallocated to the benefit of the people of the UK - and thus delaying implementation of the renewal of Trident by decades - then maybe common sense will prevail and we'll never renew the obscenity of Trident.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
quote:
Originally posted by Sarah G:
If you're going to do a radio interview in a general election introducing a policy, you make sure you know how much it costs. It's just basic.
Am I right in thinking that some, possibly many if not all, of the policies in the Tory manifesto are uncosted?
Tory policy? I have only seen one and they haven't a clue what the costs, benefits or timescale will be. That policy is Brexit and one principle, "Strong and Stable", which looks a lot like inflexibility to me. That latter phrase will haunt Theresa May to the end of her days.
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Tory policy? I have only seen one and they haven't a clue what the costs, benefits or timescale will be. That policy is Brexit and one principle, "Strong and Stable", which looks a lot like inflexibility to me.
There are other policies. There's abolish free school lunches. There's introduce free school breakfasts, which will be a bargain at 6p per child apparently, with no idea as to uptake. There's requiring the elderly to pay for their own social care, up to whatever the cap is this news cycle. Nothing says Strong and Stable like U-Turning on your own manifesto within a day of bringing it out.
May excused her non-appearance on the leaders' debate by saying:
quote:
Jeremy Corbyn seems to be paying far more attention to how many appearances on telly he’s doing. He ought to be paying a bit more attention to thinking about Brexit negotiations. That’s what I’m doing,
Guardian
I can fully agree that the Brexit negotiations are important and she shouldn't be distracted from them by a general election. It's bad timing really. What fool called a general election when they knew the Brexit negotiations were about to start?
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
And May is showing incredibly arrogance in assuming that she will have any part in these negotiations anyway.
She assumes she will be elected, and so isn't bothering to campaign.
My twitter feed (admittedly, very left wing) felt that Caroline Lucas won the day, and Rudd and Nuttall were shown up as idiots.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
I think the Tories made the mistake of believing their own propaganda about Corbyn.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
I think the Tories made the mistake of believing their own propaganda about Corbyn.
Yes.
I still think they'll win the election (although I hope not) but their majority will hardly change imo.
Rudd's father had just died and she still came on TV. I had a twinge of sadness for her but, career person as I was, I would never have put my job so far ahead of my family and I do not admire her for it
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
She was offered the chance to drop out but decided to take part, claiming her father would've expected it.
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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Helen-Eva
Shipmate
# 15025
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
Rudd's father had just died and she still came on TV. I had a twinge of sadness for her but, career person as I was, I would never have put my job so far ahead of my family and I do not admire her for it
Bereavement reactions come in all sorts - if carrying on as if nothing had happened was how she wants to cope then fair enough. I'm very sorry for anyone who loses their father - it sucks.
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I thought the radio 3 announcer said "Weber" but it turned out to be Webern. Story of my life.
Posts: 637 | From: London, hopefully in a theatre or concert hall, more likely at work | Registered: Aug 2009
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Tory policy? I have only seen one and they haven't a clue what the costs, benefits or timescale will be. That policy is Brexit and one principle, "Strong and Stable", which looks a lot like inflexibility to me.
There are other policies. There's abolish free school lunches. There's introduce free school breakfasts, which will be a bargain at 6p per child apparently, with no idea as to uptake. There's requiring the elderly to pay for their own social care, up to whatever the cap is this news cycle. Nothing says Strong and Stable like U-Turning on your own manifesto within a day of bringing it out.
I received our local Tory candidate's election letter today. Nothing about free school lunches, nothing about requiring the elderly to pay for their own care (which many do anyway). In fact all there was, was
I) Strong and Stable (as discussed above)
II) Brexit
II) Various hopes and aspirations with no costs, benefits and timescales.
FWIW I think May is desperately trying to find a way out of Brexit and the triumvirate of Johnson, Davis and Fox might just pull that off. No wonder she is spending time thinking about it! She isn't worried so much about Labour, but like Cameron doesn't want another chance that the Tory party might split over the EU.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
I can fully agree that the Brexit negotiations are important and she shouldn't be distracted from them by a general election. It's bad timing really. What fool called a general election when they knew the Brexit negotiations were about to start?
Furthermore by the time the Brexit negotiations start, the current government would have prevaricated about other matters for nearly a year.
As I said elsewhere, it's not unlike a teenager who has to revise, and then decides to finally clean up their room as a displacement activity.
[ 01. June 2017, 10:38: Message edited by: chris stiles ]
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Amika
Shipmate
# 15785
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
YouGov poll (taken before tonight's debate) has Conservative lead down to 3%.
I'm not one for trusting polls, and I've got a bottle of whisky on standby, but... hope is a terrible, terrible thing.
It is indeed. I've been tinkering with the idea of preparing two social media cover pics. One of fireworks and balloons, and one of a long, dark tunnel. Most likely though, if Labour doesn't win I will be in too dark a tunnel myself to even bother with social media cover pics.
Posts: 147 | From: Ingerland | Registered: Aug 2010
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Doc Tor's standby bottle of whisky (a good single malt, I trust) will be useful for either (a) celebrating, or (b) inducing oblivion.
A Good Idea, therefore, and I shall go out and purchase one for myself before next Thursday.
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Doc Tor's standby bottle of whisky (a good single malt, I trust) will be useful for either (a) celebrating, or (b) inducing oblivion.
A Good Idea, therefore, and I shall go out and purchase one for myself before next Thursday.
IJ
I drank all that last year for the referendum, unfortunately. I did get a bottle of Jack Daniels for Christmas, and that will suffice to induce oblivion.
(There is a loose bottle of champagne in the sideboard, but I doubt if I'll be needing that ![[Waterworks]](graemlins/bawling.gif) )
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
O dear. Well, if oblivion is required (and I fear it may be), then better by means of Jack Daniels than a decent Scotch!
![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
I've booked the day after the election as leave to recover, whether from celebration or disappointment.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
I went to bed on the evening of the referendum and of the Trump vote - then woke up to the bad news.
Maybe I'll stay up this time.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
O dear. Well, if oblivion is required (and I fear it may be), then better by means of Jack Daniels than a decent Scotch!
IJ
Start off on the good stuff, then move on to the JDs, if required.
(see the little note of hope there?)
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Yes, indeed. Well, stranger things have happened....can't off-hand think when, but...
There are times when one just wishes for a Deus ex machina happening, no?
I'll probably get up early in the morning of 9th June, fearing the worst, but I may have the pleasant surprise of learning that Maggie Maybe has not won by a large majority. IMHO, that's the best-to-be-hoped-for scenario.
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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Posted
Interesting how The Economist (to which I subscribe on the basis of keeping your friends close but your enemies closer) after flaying both Corbyn and May offers a limp lettuce leaf of support to the Liberal Democrats. I doubt the average Briton even knows the newspaper exists.
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Even more so than I was before
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Owen Jones is reporting that a BBC journalist has contacted him to tell him that, in addition to withdrawing from her woman's hour interview - May is now declining to be interviewed by the BBC regional political editors and the local radio networks (refusing to do even a pooled interview).
These are opportunities the rest of the party leaders will be taking. This is either a very clunky damage limitation exercise, or she is not coping. These would normally be seen as good electioneering opportunities, because many people pay more attention to the local/regional news than the national. It is quite a wierd decision.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
Rumour says that Amber Rudd is being lined up to replace Phil Hammond as Chancellor in the event of a Tory victory.
What an excellent choice. I can think of no better paragon of probity to manage the nation's finances.
On current showing I think it's more likely the 1922 committee are lining her up to be PM.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
I'll probably get up early in the morning of 9th June, fearing the worst, but I may have the pleasant surprise of learning that Maggie Maybe has not won by a large majority. IMHO, that's the best-to-be-hoped-for scenario.
Yesterday Theresa May was campaigning in a seat that has a 12,000 Labour majority. So either the pollsters are very wrong or she's very wrong. We'll see...
quote:
Originally posted by Uncle Pete:
Interesting how The Economist (to which I subscribe on the basis of keeping your friends close but your enemies closer) after flaying both Corbyn and May offers a limp lettuce leaf of support to the Liberal Democrats. I doubt the average Briton even knows the newspaper exists.
A lot of folk say it's a paper that isn't what it used to be, don't they?
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
Rumour says that Amber Rudd is being lined up to replace Phil Hammond as Chancellor in the event of a Tory victory.
What an excellent choice. I can think of no better paragon of probity to manage the nation's finances.
On current showing I think it's more likely the 1922 committee are lining her up to be PM.
If this time next week we find ourselves with a Tory government without a substantial majority, or even a minority government propped up by N.Ireland Unionists, then Mrs May will be anything but strong and stable. Any bets on that result leading to another Tory leadership contest? Another delay in starting the Brexit negotiations ... might as well withdraw our article 50 notification and wait until we have a strong and stable government with a clear vision for Brexit with the support of the British people.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Ian Climacus
Liturgical Slattern
# 944
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
Owen Jones is reporting that a BBC journalist has contacted him to tell him that, in addition to withdrawing from her woman's hour interview - May is now declining to be interviewed by the BBC regional political editors and the local radio networks (refusing to do even a pooled interview).
If this is any guide to her answering technique, or this, I can see why she would.
But a very bad look. Is she just hoping people won't notice? Or hoping Corybn will stuff it up badly somehow?
[ 02. June 2017, 09:01: Message edited by: Ian Climacus ]
Posts: 7800 | From: On the border | Registered: Jul 2001
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
Anglican't , I am one of those. I started to read the Economist well over 50 years ago, and did so for 30 years. I did not at all like the paper's adoption of the Chicago School's theories in the mid-70s, but persevered. I then gave up any hope of a return to the paper's previous liberal approach when it continued to espouse Chicago views long after practical application had shown Chicago just did not work
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican't:
quote:
Originally posted by Uncle Pete:
Interesting how The Economist (to which I subscribe on the basis of keeping your friends close but your enemies closer)
A lot of folk say it's a paper that isn't what it used to be, don't they?
It isn't what it used to be, but otoh it was never what people think it was.
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