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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Homosexuality and Christianity
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Arabella Purity Winterbottom
Trumpeting hope
# 3434
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
quote:
Originally posted by TheMightyTonewheel:
If God was "against" same-sex activity, why do want Him to get that across to you in any way that is different than the way He got the resurrection across to you?
Maybe there might be a point here?
And there's more justification for keeping slaves, and much more condemnation of usury.
Has anyone read the Guardian (I think) interview with Gene Robinson, elected bishop of New Hampshire? He firmly refused to agree that he was causing any split in the Anglican communion because he wasn't planning to leave. He said he was sorry if others thought they had to, but that was their decision, not one he'd made for them. I must remember this argument!
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Hell is full of the talented and Heaven is full of the energetic. St Jane Frances de Chantal
Posts: 3702 | From: Aotearoa, New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2002
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ChastMastr
Shipmate
# 716
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Arabella Purity Winterbottom:
And there's more justification for keeping slaves, and much more condemnation of usury.
None of which is mutually exclusive with the other material, for that matter. Though I'd certainly like to see more done with economic justice issues from the pulpit than I ever hear...
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My essays on comics continuity: http://chastmastr.tumblr.com/tagged/continuity
Posts: 14068 | From: Clearwater, Florida | Registered: Jul 2001
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Arabella Purity Winterbottom
Trumpeting hope
# 3434
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ChastMastr:
None of which is mutually exclusive with the other material, for that matter. Though I'd certainly like to see more done with economic justice issues from the pulpit than I ever hear...
Indeed. I've just been reading about the Jews in medieval Spain again (an interest of mine) and pondering the persecution they went through. Some of it was related to what the church saw as usury - which had been forced on the Jews by Christians, who who made laws so that Jews couldn't own land. Feels just as twisted as the arguments against us queers.
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Hell is full of the talented and Heaven is full of the energetic. St Jane Frances de Chantal
Posts: 3702 | From: Aotearoa, New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Arabella: No kidding, no kidding, no kidding.
Obviously at some point Christianity at large decided that usury was not a hill to die on. Probably about the time it became a profitable venture. ( ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif) )
That doesn't really bug me so much; if the world changed and collecting interest became less diabolical then so be it. The problem I have is that the same people who will roll their eyes and dismiss the Bible's words in this arena will be the same people who will rend their garments, beat their tom-toms, and exhaust themselves combating people who suggest that it is time to apply the same cultural re-evaluation to the verses about homosexuality. Meaning the priority is material comfort rather than spiritual unity. That, in my view, is not reflecting the kind of priorties that Jesus, Paul, and pretty much all the epistle writers reflected. So when did we, the cultural chuch, decide that our priorites were more important than God's?
To me, prioritizing is the only way out of this mess; if we try to sieve everything through strict literalism we'll never get anything useful done. This does NOT mean we have to pooh-pooh inerrancy; what it does mean is we have to actively seek out the common priorties found in Scripture.Happened in the OT, too: Hosea finally had to tell people "Just shut up, do justly, love mercy, and walk humbly with your God."
(Was it Hosea?)
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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AdamPater
Sacristan of the LavaLamp
# 4431
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Happened in the OT, too: Hosea finally had to tell people "Just shut up, do justly, love mercy, and walk humbly with your God."
(Was it Hosea?)
Micah. Chapter 6, verse 8. Besides the two commandments of Jesus, the only summary needed of the requirements of the Almighty and Beloved.
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Put not your trust in princes.
Posts: 4894 | From: On the left of the big pink bit. | Registered: Apr 2003
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Thanks, mate. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Edited to add: Of course I added the "shut up" part.
[ 22. July 2003, 05:37: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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iGeek.*
Resident alien
# 3207
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Posted
Parker Palmer cites this poem by May Sarton in his book about finding self in his book "Let Your Life Speak":
quote:
Now I become myself.
It's taken time, many years and places.
I have been dissolved and shaken,
Worn other people's faces. ...
May Sarton, "Now I Become Myself," in Collected Poems,
1930-1973 (New York: Norton, 1974), p. 156.
As we struggle for authenticity in our lives, may we wear our own face. May we become that which God intends us to be; not what our culture, family or religion might want, or even coerce, us to be.
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.sig on holiday
Posts: 702 | From: Hot-on-us, TX | Registered: Aug 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
God Bless, iGeek. ![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif)
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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kevb
Apprentice
# 4691
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Posted
Hi folks,
Just thought I d let you know about some Good News, to coin aphrase, I have just 'come out' to my friends in a good ole c of e church that condemned homosexuality. The up shot is I am accepted for me and maybe I was a little too judgemental about those I percieved to be judgemental. It was lonely out there, you know. My mission now isnt so concerned with what it means to be a gay christian but rather what it means to follow Jesus. I have been very fortunate I know this.
Posts: 17 | From: devon | Registered: Jul 2003
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TonyK
Host Emeritus
# 35
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Posted
Hello kevb, and a hostly welcome aboard the Ship. I'm sure (in the light of your first post) you will find many kindred spirits here!
I'm sure too that you will have read them already, but I'd like to draw your attention to the Ship's own 10 Commandments (link on the left) and also to the guidelines at the head of each Board. Move around the Ship a bit and have fun.
It only remains for me to hand you your (virtual) mop and bucket and to remind you that apprentices get the thrilling task of swabbing the decks - that's your area, over there!
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Yours aye ... TonyK
Posts: 2717 | From: Gloucestershire | Registered: May 2001
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Great first post, kevb. ![[Not worthy!]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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iGeek.*
Resident alien
# 3207
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Posted
Woo HOO! Congratulations and happy coming out Kev.
Feels good to be out of the closet, eh? Glad you're here and God bless as you walk your journey.
quote:
My mission now isn't so concerned with what it means to be a gay christian but rather what it means to follow Jesus.
Amen!
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.sig on holiday
Posts: 702 | From: Hot-on-us, TX | Registered: Aug 2002
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Zeke
Ship's Inquirer
# 3271
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Posted
Best wishes to you KevB. I know it is a very difficult and frightening thing to do, but I hope you can feel more at home with yourself now. All the best,
Zeke
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No longer the Bishop of Durham
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If men are so wicked with religion, what would they be without it? --Benjamin Franklin
Posts: 5259 | From: Deep in the American desert | Registered: Sep 2002
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Arabella Purity Winterbottom
Trumpeting hope
# 3434
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Posted
Go Kev. Never feel as though you're on your own.
Kia kaha
Deborah
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Hell is full of the talented and Heaven is full of the energetic. St Jane Frances de Chantal
Posts: 3702 | From: Aotearoa, New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2002
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
Since liberals have expounded endlessly on this issue without the slightest peep of protest, suffer a conservative to do the same without being flamed into oblivion. I promise I just have some stuff to get out of my system and this will be the only time.
Memo To God:
"Lord, having found several parts of your Scriptures incompatible with our current sexual mores, we have taken the liberty of ignoring several verses which we find terribly inconveniant.
Our next action will be to pen rubrics for the scolding of icons of Saint Paul the Homophobe like a naughty child, for his inconveniant writings on the matter of sexual mores in 1 Corinthians.
Sincerely: Episcopal Church USA."
Zach
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Louise
Shipmate
# 30
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Posted
quote:
Since liberals have expounded endlessly on this issue without the slightest peep of protest, suffer a conservative to do the same without being flamed into oblivion.
Should we draw the conclusion that you haven't troubled yourself to read this thread or keep up with it, and hence are ignorant of the substantial contributions to it from a conservative position?
quote:
Memo To God:
"Lord, having found several parts of your Scriptures incompatible with our current sexual mores, we have taken the liberty of ignoring several verses which we find terribly inconveniant.
Our next action will be to pen rubrics for the scolding of icons of Saint Paul the Homophobe like a naughty child, for his inconveniant writings on the matter of sexual mores in 1 Corinthians.
Sincerely: Episcopal Church USA."
Yes, you clearly haven't bothered to read this thread, as much if it is about why people who take scripture seriously do not agree with the usual conservative position on this issue.
Why don't you run along to Hell and post your pompous little rant there, where it can get the attention it deserves?
Louise
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Now you need never click a Daily Mail link again! Kittenblock replaces Mail links with calming pics of tea and kittens! http://www.teaandkittens.co.uk/ Click under 'other stuff' to find it.
Posts: 6918 | From: Scotland | Registered: May 2001
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
Oh, get off it Louise. I was talking about Purg and Hell. If I have missed the major Conservative threads in one of those two forums, forgive me.
Zach
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Merseymike
Shipmate
# 3022
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Posted
If 'taking Scripture seriously' means ignoring insight and understanding, and setting up the mores of the past as some sort of artificial ideal just because Paul expressed his own opinion about it, then I'm glad I don't.
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Christianity is not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be experienced
Posts: 3360 | From: Walked the plank | Registered: Jul 2002
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Louise
Shipmate
# 30
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
Oh, get off it Louise. I was talking about Purg and Hell. If I have missed the major Conservative threads in one of those two forums, forgive me.
Zach
Perhaps you've missed various conservative points of view on this issue being put at length elsewhere on the boards by people such as Flying Belgian, Anglicanrascal, Jesuit Lad, Junior Fool and Enders Shadow?
There are certainly plenty of people making conservative arguments on this thread, if you had been bothered to read it.
If you post on a Dead Horse thread you are meant to be adding to the discussion on the thread AFTER having read the rest of the thread and being aware of what it contains.
It's not a special space which has been created on the boards for you to post juvenile rants which tell us more about your mentality than about the issue at hand.
L.
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Now you need never click a Daily Mail link again! Kittenblock replaces Mail links with calming pics of tea and kittens! http://www.teaandkittens.co.uk/ Click under 'other stuff' to find it.
Posts: 6918 | From: Scotland | Registered: May 2001
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
I might have been inclined to repent my lack of forsight in posting here, Loise, if Mike hadn't graced us with a confirmation of what I wrote.
Zach
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Gremlin
Ship's Cryptanalyst
# 129
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Posted
My turn:
Live and let live!
What people do in their own between *consenting* adults, is absolutely up to them, and nothing to do with you!
Gremlin
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Too many freaks, not enough circuses.
Ahhh...I see the screw-up fairy has visited us again...
Oh I get it... like humour... but different.
Posts: 5221 | From: Isle of Man | Registered: May 2001
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Louise
Shipmate
# 30
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Posted
OK then Zach, you and Mike can both deserve each other
L.
[ 04. August 2003, 20:06: Message edited by: Louise ]
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Now you need never click a Daily Mail link again! Kittenblock replaces Mail links with calming pics of tea and kittens! http://www.teaandkittens.co.uk/ Click under 'other stuff' to find it.
Posts: 6918 | From: Scotland | Registered: May 2001
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
quote:
What people do in their own between *consenting* adults, is absolutely up to them, and nothing to do with you!
Politically I agree with you. I was against that Texas sodomy law for this very reason.
Religion is not politics, though.
Zach
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Erin
Meaner than Godzilla
# 2
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Posted
So just out of curiosity, what the hell does Merseymike, whose name betrays his Englishness, have to do with the ECUSA?
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Commandment number one: shut the hell up.
Posts: 17140 | From: 330 miles north of paradise | Registered: Mar 2001
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
*cough* As much as I, a United Methodist, do. But surely we all believe in the holy catholic church here, Erin. One baptism, one loaf, one church and all...
Zach
[ 04. August 2003, 21:19: Message edited by: Zach82 ]
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Merseymike
Shipmate
# 3022
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Posted
All part of the Anglican Communion, Erin - for what that means....
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Christianity is not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be experienced
Posts: 3360 | From: Walked the plank | Registered: Jul 2002
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Erin
Meaner than Godzilla
# 2
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Posted
I was baptised in the UMC. The official teetotal stance of the church is what finally sent me away. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
However, you can't use someone of a different province as proof of anything in the ECUSA. If that were the case, I could throw up Jack Spong as evidence of the unorthodox beliefs of the Church in Wales. I will grant that there are definitely people in the ECUSA who feel as Mike does, but I think that you're taking a far too trite and mocking stance at an incredibly painful process for those of us on the board who are watching our beloved province fall apart.
Besides, doesn't the UMC value scripture, tradition, reason and experience equally? That's what my UMC pastor told me.
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Commandment number one: shut the hell up.
Posts: 17140 | From: 330 miles north of paradise | Registered: Mar 2001
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
You are most right, Erin. Scripture, Reason, Tradition, and Experience are equally valued in Methodism.
I will pray for the Episcopal church, Erin. Forgive me for being trite.
Zach
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Erin
Meaner than Godzilla
# 2
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Posted
Thanks... I know that to those in other traditions it is a clusterf*ck of epic proportions (and to be fair, it is), but watching all of this just leaves me, anyway, with a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach. I honestly don't believe that there will be any true winners here, no matter what the outcome. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
But we can get back to slagging each other off about homosexuality in general.
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Commandment number one: shut the hell up.
Posts: 17140 | From: 330 miles north of paradise | Registered: Mar 2001
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
At the last meeting of the UMC in 2000, the gay lobby's resolutions on things like homosexual ordination and acceptance of gay marriage were defeated terribly, almost 90% against on them all.
When the convention refused to continue debate on the hopelessly defeated bills, the gay lobby refused to leave the floor, and said they would have to arrest them or continue debate. The convention had no choice but to go with the first, and several bishops and pastors were arrested and tossed in jail by the police.
So actually, the Episcopal debate has been quite tame in my view. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Zach
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Morph
Apprentice
# 4803
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Posted
The topic isn't really up for discussion. First Corinthians and Deuteronomic and Levitical law make this clear. The fact of the matter is: The homosexual offender will NOT inherit the kingdom of heaven. However, if a person repents, they will be saved. It is perfectly possible that a person who is homosexual and truly repents of this sinful state is forgiven by God . However, a person who continues to live like this and is unrepentant of it is damned. All sin is sin, and a heterosexual who has sex outside of marriage and is unrepentant is in the same boat. The law does not change and neither does God's standards. Now we have the grace of God this does not mean we have the right to flagrantly disregard the Torah of YHWH.
Posts: 4 | Registered: Aug 2003
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
Morph, have you read this thread? No? Thought not.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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ChastMastr
Shipmate
# 716
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Posted
Oh. God. No. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Morph, I see that this is your very first (and only) post on the Ship. Whether we end up agreeing or not on this subject, please for goodness' sake don't stay focused on this one (or any other one) subject. I know it's very important, which is why the debate here has raged for more than a dozen pages, but please be wary of winding up a one-issue poster, and also of how you express what you believe here -- see the Ship's 10 commandments.
We've had several people recently come on board and focus exclusively on one topic, particularly sexual morality (and particularly gay stuff), and it makes them come across as crusaders.
As a fellow fan of the X-Men (... that is where your name is from, yes?), I implore you to act better than they did. They're mostly gone now. Perhaps looking over the threads on other boards besides Dead Horses (which is where threads which have been debated to death wind up -- this is not an issue on which people will be convinced quickly or easily, if at all) -- Heaven and All Saints are less contentious places.
David
David is not a host, but is a caring nurturer, a member of several twelve-step programs, but not a licensed therapist. His show "Daily Affirmations" is... no, wait, that's Stuart Smalley
PS: Sorry if that sounds over-anxious; but this is my panic, and I own it.
David
now being extremely silly, quoting Stuart Smalley again; naughty David!
[ 06. August 2003, 20:51: Message edited by: ChastMastr ]
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My essays on comics continuity: http://chastmastr.tumblr.com/tagged/continuity
Posts: 14068 | From: Clearwater, Florida | Registered: Jul 2001
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Papio
Ship's baboon
# 4201
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Posted
Hmmmmmmmm. Morph, you really should read threads before you post on them. I know this from bitter experience. If you had read this thread, you would realise how unconvincing your post is.
Regardless of whether I agree with you or not (and, tbh, I don't) the fact that all your points have been discussed at length and that there is evidence against your claims kinda makes you look like an arrogant, clueless prat.
Ben26
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Infinite Penguins.
My "Readit, Swapit" page
My "LibraryThing" page
Posts: 12176 | From: a zoo in England. | Registered: Mar 2003
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Erin
Meaner than Godzilla
# 2
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Morph:
The topic isn't really up for discussion.
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
The irony in posting that statement to a discussion board is beautiful, man.
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Commandment number one: shut the hell up.
Posts: 17140 | From: 330 miles north of paradise | Registered: Mar 2001
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that Wikkid Person
Shipmate
# 4446
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Posted
I am a Christian. I have read the bible. I am not gay. I haven't got any strong confidence as to what God intends Christian people who'd very much prefer to cuddle with members of their own gender to do with their lives. It is therefore a very good thing that I don't need to have a strong, clear, confident position on it, as it isn't my concern for any reason.
I am much more confident that, as a Christian, I do not feel that I am under the Mosaic Law as laid out in the Torah, but under the law of Liberty, having died to the world and to the obligation to keep the law with Christ, who once and for all fulfilled the law. You will therefore see me making no attempt whatsoever to live up to the standards of the law. I am not attempting to live a life that is merely "right", but one that is actually *good*, and I personally think that's harder and better to do. You can't achieve good by doing evil. Unless it could be proven that homosexuality is evil, rather than merely unlawful for non-christians (for Christians, of course, all things are lawful, but some things edify not) I don't think you've got a lot to say about it.
I think I just might have looked after a woman or two to lust after them, committing adultery in my heart. My grandfather divorced his wife because she was clinically insane and refused treatment her whole life. A friend of mine shot himself through the head while playing Russian Roulette. I do not understand why they did these things, nor do I know if the work of Christ "covers" them. I wouldn't be surprised if it did, but it's not up to me nor can I know without oversimplifying the message of the bible, which isn't written specifically to me, to answer my curious questions and let me know that I'm living "right".
I have no clear motivation to stand up and say "You! You're wrong! And you're going to Hell!" to anybody for anything.
That's not my business. I don't even know who's going to Hell. That's not part of my job. I know that Hell will have people who cast out demons in the name of Christ in it (which I've never quite been able to do), and many other people who will be quite shocked and outraged that they're there.
To me (a man who seems intended by God to seek out sticking his penis in a worthwhile woman who very much wants him to do that and has promised to let him and only him do it) homosexuality does seem a little wierd...a little "outside" what I personally understand. It also seems a bit amusing (from a third party viewpoint.) It might even be more funny than heterosexual sex, and that's saying a lot! (anyone who thinks hetereosexual sexual acts aren't funny need only hit fast-forward during a heterosexual sex scene in a movie, pornographic or otherwise. This also works for birthing videos and videos of people eating.)
I don't fully understand the urge to want to put my penis anywhere near another man, but I understand even less the desire to stand at Christ's right hand, pointing and shouting "Yeah! You Sodomites there! I'm talking to you, you fairies! You're going to Hell, so THERE, nancy boys! I was right all along and you were...liberal! Ha! Burn, baby!"
In fact, I go so far as to question that such an attitude would be even lightyears near the spirit of Christ. I think that anyone who is quicker to judge than Jesus Christ needs to remember what his or her job is, and how little his or her opinion really matter when it comes to matters of eternal damnation and inheriting the kingdom of God. It would be nice if that person could say something worthwhile and good, rather than just make it clear once and for all who is "wrong."
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We have only one truth and one reality. Let's make the most of them.
Posts: 1007 | From: Almonte, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Apr 2003
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John Donne
Renaissance Man
# 220
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
quote:
Originally posted by TheMightyTonewheel:
If God was "against" same-sex activity, why do want Him to get that across to you in any way that is different than the way He got the resurrection across to you?
Maybe there might be a point here?
As time goes on, I am more and more convinced that it is the case:
Jesus died on the Cross to STOP HOMOSEXUAL ACTS AT ALL COSTS!
![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
(Give me strength. And a few sordid homosexual-offender-who-won't-inherit- the-Kingdom liasons)
Posts: 13667 | From: Perth, W.A. | Registered: May 2001
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Arabella Purity Winterbottom
Trumpeting hope
# 3434
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Posted
Cool post WP! Made me laugh it was so honest, but great sense of straightforwardness. I wish everyone was so straightforward.
I particularly like the bit about sex being funny - you don't read much about it, but I agree 100%. I don't know whether any one kind is funnier than any other kind, but its all funny on a simple visual level. (Of course that's not normally our perspective...)
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Hell is full of the talented and Heaven is full of the energetic. St Jane Frances de Chantal
Posts: 3702 | From: Aotearoa, New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2002
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
In the last few days I've read three anti-gay posts by first time posters, none of whom (so far) have posted anything else: calpurnia, whyberight... and now morph. Does this indicate some sort of pattern? Are they all the same person, and are they all sockpuppets of someone who has been banned?
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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iGeek.*
Resident alien
# 3207
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by that Wikkid Person:
I understand even less the desire to stand at Christ's right hand, pointing and shouting,
"Yeah! You Sodomites there! I'm talking to you, you fairies! You're going to Hell, so THERE, nancy boys! I was right all along and you were...liberal! Ha! Burn, baby!"
Actually, I understand it pretty well. I'm certainly not immune to it. Absolute certitude about an issue can be a heady intoxicant. One can derive a certain amount of self-esteem going about pointing out other peoples (presumed) shortcomings. Remember the social dynamics when you were, oh say between 12 and 18?
quote:
In fact, I go so far as to question that such an attitude would be even lightyears near the spirit of Christ.
Yeah. I think think so as well.
Excellent post, WP, though the graphic imagery you invoke of physical intimacy between men and women gave me the heebie-jeebies. *shiver* ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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.sig on holiday
Posts: 702 | From: Hot-on-us, TX | Registered: Aug 2002
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that Wikkid Person
Shipmate
# 4446
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Posted
Oh, no point in being paranoid. There's no real shortage of people in America who are afraid they won't be able to get a good night's sleep, what with the din of gay sex emanating from houses all around them.
Whether they be lurkers finally speaking up about something they feel they can't sit by idly by during, or people who don't normally "feel led to" post being stirred into action by the "controversial" nature of the topic, I think we can assume that they are three separate examples of three seperate people with similar views on The American Family or The State of The Church.
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We have only one truth and one reality. Let's make the most of them.
Posts: 1007 | From: Almonte, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Apr 2003
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iGeek.*
Resident alien
# 3207
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Posted
quote:
It is perfectly possible that a person who is homosexual and truly repents of this sinful state is forgiven by God . However, a person who continues to live like this and is unrepentant of it is damned.
What you're really saying is that if a person pretends to change, it makes you more comfortable.
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.sig on holiday
Posts: 702 | From: Hot-on-us, TX | Registered: Aug 2002
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TonyK
Host Emeritus
# 35
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Posted
Morph
Normally I would be happy writing this post as I gave you a hostly welcome to the Ship.
However, not only have you started off on the wrong foot - you've done so in just about the worst way possible.
For an explanation, please read the Ship's Ten Commandments (with special attention to 1,3 & 8). You should have already read these as part of the joining procedure - if so please re-read them. Also please read the Guidelines at the entrance to each Board.
I can understand that you have strong views on the subject - but so do many other shipmates and their views are diametrically opposed to yours. If you read all the posts in the thread (yes, even though there are several hundred) you will see that your views have already been forcefully expressed - and ultimately we have had to agree to differ. Attacking those who hold opposing views is not debate or discussion - and debate and discussion is what the Ship is all about.
Normally I would issue a formal hostly reprimand at this point, but as you are new I will simply warn you that repeated postings of this sort will result in you being banned.
Please accept this warning in the kindly way I intend it. Many shipmates now in good standing started off badly - it will not be held against you if you now start 'playing by the rules'.
If this is not clear, or if you feel I have been unreasonable, please feel free to email me or send me a Private Message - see 'My Profile' for details of P.M.s.
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Yours aye ... TonyK
Posts: 2717 | From: Gloucestershire | Registered: May 2001
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
iGeek: Bingo! Because as Gene Robinson said about the whole Jeffrey John fiasco, the real "h" word we're talking about here is honesty.
[oops]
[ 06. August 2003, 22:36: Message edited by: RuthW ]
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
WP, if virility can be measured by the prowess of a man's posts, then lucky the woman who... well, you understand.
(Seriously--excellent post )
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Papio
Ship's baboon
# 4201
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Wanderer:
In the last few days I've read three anti-gay posts by first time posters, none of whom (so far) have posted anything else: calpurnia, whyberight... and now morph. Does this indicate some sort of pattern? Are they all the same person, and are they all sockpuppets of someone who has been banned?
we have another one in Purg.
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Infinite Penguins.
My "Readit, Swapit" page
My "LibraryThing" page
Posts: 12176 | From: a zoo in England. | Registered: Mar 2003
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
Speaking officially ...
They are not all the same person.
There is a new link to the gay bishop thread in Purgatory from the ship's front page (you remember the main part of the ship, right? the magazine?), and that is probably why we're getting a few more new people than usual at the moment who have opinions about this particular topic.
RuthW
Member Admin
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
quote:
(you remember the main part of the ship, right? the magazine?)
I'm sorry but you're really confusing me here. You seem to be suggesting that there is a part of a Ship that isn't on these discussion boards. Clearly that doesn't make sense - I think I need a lie down.
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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