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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Hell: Blasphemous desecration
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Thurible
Shipmate
# 3206
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Posted
See this
If it's been deleted, here's the description:
"Fist of all, I AM NOT CATHOLIC AND DO NOT BELIEVE I'M GOING TO HELL FOR SELLING THIS COLLECTIBLE. So, if you're going to send me a message saying that I am don't waist your time because it'll just be deleted w/o being read. It's a momento from that great afternoon with Pope John Paul II. Yes, this is the actual Eucharist I saved during the mass that I participated in on October 18th, 1998. I ate one wafer then I went back and got another one to save and he gave me another one, but I did get a very dirty look! I was studying in Florence that semester and a bunch of us went down to Rome that week to partake. I'm not Catholic, but I found it all very interesting. Along with the Eucharist, I have the program from that day and a litte bulletin. It's all in Italian. I also have 4 stamps from the Vatican that year and a bottle opener that I bought when I was in Rome way back in 1992. From what I understand, if you're holding something in your hand during a certain moment when Pope John Paul II spoke during his mass, whetever it becomes blessed. I was holding this bottle opener during mass with him in 1992. It has his picture on one side and a picture of the Trevi Fountain on the other. Everything from 1998 (Eucharist, bulletin, program, and stamps, have been encased in plastic in my stratch book since then and have not had much light and no air. All in awesome condition and I believe extrememly rare for obvious reasons. I've included a pic of 2 pics I took that day in 1998 when I was there. The front of St. Peter's was already being cleaned up for the big 2000 festivities and my other pic would have been great instead for my friend's hand in the way! I would like to sell them as a package but would consider seperate offers. These truly are great pieces of history!" [their typos not mine!]
It's been sold for $2,000. Hopefully, it's been bought by someone who has some respect for the Blessed Sacrament and will consume It, rather than someone who wants It a) as a "great piece of history" or, worse, b) a Black Magician.
Thurible
[ 29. April 2005, 21:58: Message edited by: Sarkycow ]
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"I've been baptised not lobotomised."
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Billfrid
Shipmate
# 7279
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Posted
That's bit shocking...actually it's totally repulsive.
Idea! Set up an ebay account - it's quite easy, if your contact email address is from a free server like hotmail (account can be set up in minutes) you have to supply a credit card number. However - there's nothing to stop you from registering on ebay as, say, angelgabriel, with a hotmail address of anything you like. Then put in your actual credit card name and number. They can't take the money from you at the end of the auction as they only can use this information to verify your identity.
You can then bid on the item and drive the price up to ridiculous levels - then don't pay!
All they can do is give you negative feedback and a 'warning' from ebay to not be naughty again.
The seller can delete bids, but if they creep up bit by bit he/she may not realize what's happening.
Or, you can go through the complaints procedure to ebay - they are very strict about what items can be sold and I'm sure would pull this one off if enough transsubstantiationists (?) complained.
I'm going to complain now...
Posts: 58 | From: London UK | Registered: Jun 2004
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
What a horrid thing. Talk about complete and utter disregard for somebody else's religion. Words fail.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Linguo
Ship's grammar robot
# 7220
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Posted
I'm going to complain to eBay, and I'm not even a transubstatiationalist...
Posts: 997 | From: around and about the place | Registered: May 2004
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Billfrid
Shipmate
# 7279
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Posted
Sold for $2000 dollars!
I have complained to ebay...let's see what happens.
Posts: 58 | From: London UK | Registered: Jun 2004
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Peronel
The typo slayer
# 569
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Billfrid:
Or, you can go through the complaints procedure to ebay - they are very strict about what items can be sold and I'm sure would pull this one off if enough transsubstantiationists (?) complained.
I'm going to complain now...
People have been flogging relics on ebay for years, so I doubt they'll care about this.
I agree it's horrid, but I'm sure it's not the first time something like this has happened. In fact, a RC friend told me that, in her childhood, her elderly relatives used to keep scrapbooks from Masses celebrating important family occassions. So, on assumes, they could flick back and say, "That's the host from our eldest's wedding".
I did wonder, when seeing everyone receive on the tongue at the Pope's funeral, if that was intended to stop those hosts from appearing on ebay.
Peronel.
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Lord, I have sinned, and mine iniquity.
Deserves this hell; yet Lord deliver me.
Posts: 2367 | From: A self-inflicted exile | Registered: Jun 2001
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Captain Caveman
Shipmate
# 3980
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Posted
I don't understand what the problem is.
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"Take this shirt
Polyester white trash made in nowhere
Take this shirt and make it clean" - U2
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Captain Caveman
Shipmate
# 3980
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Posted
quote:
You're joking, right?
No.
Someone has something that someone else is prepared to pay $2000 dollars for and sells it to them. What's the big deal? It's not something I'd be prepared to pay that much for but if someone else wants to then that's their choice.
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"Take this shirt
Polyester white trash made in nowhere
Take this shirt and make it clean" - U2
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
Even if you don't believe that the bread and wine become the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ at the consecration, Catholics do. I would have thought that it was a matter of elementary politeness, therefore, not to nick hosts and flog them on e-bay.
Like not getting your hip flask out in a Mosque or wearing your shoes in a Buddhist Temple or wandering around a synagogue without your head covered. It is a matter of respecting other people's beliefs. Why is that too hard for you Cavey? Or does the Icon of true twenty-first century religion, the almighty $, blind you to the possibility that other people's faiths are worth respecting.
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001
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Leetle Masha
Cantankerous Anchoress
# 8209
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Posted
So much for "communion in the hand...."
Leetle M.
Posts: 6351 | From: Hesychia, in Hyperdulia | Registered: Aug 2004
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
I think it's a hoax. As far as I know you have to take it in front of the priest and they watch you to make sure you do. In any case it's supposed to dissolve quickly on your tongue so if you did put it in your mouth it's generally a soggy mess within a couple of seconds. I wonder if he's got hold of an unconsecrated wafer or just "made" one to cash in?
Why would anyone be holding a bottle opener during a Mass anyway? Of all the things you might clutch how likely is that?
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Leetle Masha
Cantankerous Anchoress
# 8209
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Posted
Like you, Ariel, I hope at least the offer for sale on EBay is not a serious one. However, theft of consecrated hosts and subsequent use of them for blasphemous purposes has happened. Especially in large crowds, I am not sure the priests had time and a good enough field of vision to watch each communicant as carefully as they are asked to. I saw, in the large outdoor requiem, a priest handing a host to someone over the heads of two or three other people who had received already but who could not move back to let the people behind them come forward.
But let's hope it didn't and doesn't happen!
Leetle M.
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eleison me, tin amartolin: have mercy on me, the sinner
Posts: 6351 | From: Hesychia, in Hyperdulia | Registered: Aug 2004
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Siegfried
Ship's ferret
# 29
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Thurible:
It's been sold for $2,000. Hopefully, it's been bought by someone who has some respect for the Blessed Sacrament and will consume It, rather than someone who wants It a) as a "great piece of history" or, worse, b) a Black Magician.
So, assuming it were bought by a "Black Magician", are you saying God couldn't turn the host back into just a wafer?
Sieg
Posts: 5592 | From: Tallahassee, FL USA | Registered: May 2001
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FCB
Hillbilly Thomist
# 1495
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Posted
This is no longer the case, but for a long time communion in the hand was not allowed in St. Peter's (long after it was allowed elsewhere) precisely to prevent this sort of thing.
FCB
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Agent of the Inquisition since 1982.
Posts: 2928 | From: that city in "The Wire" | Registered: Oct 2001
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
Anyone can buy unconsecrated wafers. I can get them in a shop round the corner.
Unless the purchaser has some sort of True Substance Detector to tell the difference between the most holy body of the Lord and a piece of stale biscuit, how are they ever going to know?
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Leetle Masha
Cantankerous Anchoress
# 8209
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Posted
quote:
how are they ever going to know
, Ken asks.
They're not, Ken, but the question is, what will other people presume ?
I once worked as an upstairs maid in a rectory where there were about 6 clergy. For some reason I still cannot fathom, one particular one left unconsecrated hosts lying out loose on a desk, and although every day I picked them up reverently and put them into a tin box, the next morning the desk was littered with more of them again. Did the clergyman count out how many he needed for sick calls that day and leave the rest scattered on the desk? Were they "consecrated on the way" to the sick person's room in the hospital? I still don't know. To tell you the truth, I don't want to know.
That was in the days of the liturgical game-playing of the late l960s, where some theologians were speculating on the very clever liturgical "hat-trick" whereby they were wanting the liturgy modified to say, "This is, and is not, the Body of Christ...."
In that same rectory, another clergyman used a fat volume of Teilhard de Chardin to prop up a window whose sash-rope was broken. Rain or shine, Teilhard provided fresh air to that room.
Leetle M.
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eleison me, tin amartolin: have mercy on me, the sinner
Posts: 6351 | From: Hesychia, in Hyperdulia | Registered: Aug 2004
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Captain Caveman
Shipmate
# 3980
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Posted
Originally posted by Callan:
quote:
Even if you don't believe that the bread and wine become the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ at the consecration, Catholics do. I would have thought that it was a matter of elementary politeness, therefore, not to nick hosts and flog them on e-bay.
Like not getting your hip flask out in a Mosque or wearing your shoes in a Buddhist Temple or wandering around a synagogue without your head covered. It is a matter of respecting other people's beliefs. Why is that too hard for you Cavey? Or does the Icon of true twenty-first century religion, the almighty $, blind you to the possibility that other people's faiths are worth respecting.
I think there's a difference between going into a place of worship and behaving in a way that is offensive to the faith of the place you're in, and selling something that some people consider sacred. I can see why people would get upset about the guy deliberately getting an extra wafer with the intention one day of flogging it. Personally I wouldn't rate it too high on the scale of bad-things-that-happen, though.
What people seem to be objecting to is not that, however, but the fact that the guy has sold it on ebay. If you want to say that no-one should put anything potentially religiously offensive on the internet then you'd better get a lot stricter about what you allow to be posted on the Ship.
I presume the person who bought it was a devout Catholic (either that or a crazy person). I guess they didn't find it to be 'blasphemous desecration'.
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"Take this shirt
Polyester white trash made in nowhere
Take this shirt and make it clean" - U2
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Caveman:
I presume the person who bought it was a devout Catholic (either that or a crazy person).
Or a black magician who intended to desecrate it.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Pânts*
Ship's underwear
# 4487
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
As far as I know you have to take it in front of the priest and they watch you to make sure you do.
Not neccesarily. I have been known on occasion not to eat the wafer immediately, but take it back to my seat with me.
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I'm not here any more. Dial 999 to get me. (No. Please don't really. Bit you could PM me on my new number cos I never get PMs!)
Posts: 8380 | From: The Stables | Registered: May 2003
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rosamundi
Ship's lacemaker
# 2495
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Caveman:
I think there's a difference between going into a place of worship and behaving in a way that is offensive to the faith of the place you're in, and selling something that some people consider sacred. I can see why people would get upset about the guy deliberately getting an extra wafer with the intention one day of flogging it. Personally I wouldn't rate it too high on the scale of bad-things-that-happen, though.
If this person is truly selling a consecrated Host, he is selling the body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus Christ.
That comes pretty high up the scale of bad-things-that-happen, if you ask me.
By going to a Catholic Mass, as a non-Catholic, and taking a consecrated host and not consuming it, he has committed sacrilege. Selling it on Ebay merely adds to the blasphemy.
Deborah
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Posts: 2382 | From: here or there | Registered: Mar 2002
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pânts:
Not neccesarily. I have been known on occasion not to eat the wafer immediately, but take it back to my seat with me.
The one occasion when my mind was elsewhere and I'd started back to my seat, I got called back before I'd gone one pace, asked if I was really a Catholic, and told to take it there and then in front of the priest.
I was so embarrassed by this that I never went up for Communion again in that church.
[ 12. April 2005, 20:12: Message edited by: Ariel ]
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Mad Geo
Ship's navel gazer
# 2939
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by rosamundi:
If this person is truly selling a consecrated Host, he is selling the body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus Christ.
That apparently is what you believe. The seller could be an atheist who believes (s)he's selling a stale cracker. It seems like (s)he committed a form of fraud, yes, in order to obtain the cracker, but not an enforceable form of fraud really.
Yes, (s)he is a disrespectful asshole to do this. But (s)he's a clever one.
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Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"
Posts: 11730 | From: People's Republic of SoCal | Registered: Jun 2002
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ONUnicorn
Shipmate
# 7331
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Posted
I'm not Catholic, and have never been to a Catholic church, but in several non-Catholic churches I've been to, we've been told to take the wafer and the wine back to our seats and pray silently until all had theirs, and then consume them as a congregation.
This has its benefits.
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"A pig's snout is NOT an electrical outlet."
Posts: 637 | From: Indianapolis, IN | Registered: Jun 2004
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
Originally posted by Captain Caveman:
quote:
I think there's a difference between going into a place of worship and behaving in a way that is offensive to the faith of the place you're in, and selling something that some people consider sacred. I can see why people would get upset about the guy deliberately getting an extra wafer with the intention one day of flogging it. Personally I wouldn't rate it too high on the scale of bad-things-that-happen, though.
Taking a consecrated host away from a Catholic Mass is inseperable from going into a place of worship and behaving in a way that is offensive to the faith of the place you're in. Trust me. It's up there with buggering the Pope.
It's not 'an extra wafer' it is, as far as Catholic Christians are concerned 'the Body of our Lord Jesus Christ'. Which is why we consider it wrong to behave disrespectfully towards it/ Him. As I assume that you wouldn't wear shoes in a Buddhist temple/ not wear headgear in a Synagogue/ break out the hipflask in a Mosque why are the beliefs of Catholic Christians fair game? Even if you believe it only represents our Lord, is it not worthy of some respect.
Oh, but then of course there is hard cash involved. That makes all the difference.
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001
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rosamundi
Ship's lacemaker
# 2495
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mad Geo:
That apparently is what you believe. The seller could be an atheist who believes (s)he's selling a stale cracker. It seems like (s)he committed a form of fraud, yes, in order to obtain the cracker, but not an enforceable form of fraud really.
Yes, (s)he is a disrespectful asshole to do this. But (s)he's a clever one.
MadGeo,there is no "apparently" about what I believe. It doesn't matter what the seller believes - they went to a Catholic Mass and took a consecrated host. Therefore, they took the body, blood, soul and divinity of Christ. That's a bit more than "being a disrespectful asshole," they are risking their immortal soul.
Deborah
[ 12. April 2005, 20:29: Message edited by: rosamundi ]
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Website.
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Posts: 2382 | From: here or there | Registered: Mar 2002
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Captain Caveman
Shipmate
# 3980
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Posted
Originally posted by Mousethief:
quote:
Or a black magician who intended to desecrate it.
What does this mean?
Anyone who's a serious black magician has to be a bit crazy. Anyone who genuinely believes in God and that a bit of wafer is sacred and they can pay $2000 dollars for it and somehow do something nasty with it is even crazier.
Originally posted by rosamundi:
quote:
If this person is truly selling a consecrated Host, he is selling the body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus Christ.
That comes pretty high up the scale of bad-things-that-happen, if you ask me.
What sort of Jesus do you believe in who would make his soul and divinity so readily accessible to misuse by nasty unbelievers? Even when he came in the flesh and was crucified, I don't think his soul and divinity were ever seriously at risk. I think he's capable of looking after himself.
quote:
By going to a Catholic Mass, as a non-Catholic, and taking a consecrated host and not consuming it, he has committed sacrilege. Selling it on Ebay merely adds to the blasphemy.
What about the first one he took and ate? Was that sacriligeous, him not even being a Christian, let alone Catholic? What if I had some, being a Christian but not Catholic, would that be sacriligeous? I'd be pretty offended if it was.
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"Take this shirt
Polyester white trash made in nowhere
Take this shirt and make it clean" - U2
Posts: 519 | Registered: Jan 2003
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
Anybody who's higher up the candle than Captain Caveman is a little bit crazy.
Just a little self-enamoured there, Cavey? Kiss your own arms a lot, do you?
![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Captain Caveman
Shipmate
# 3980
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Posted
Firstly, I still don't know what you mean by desecrating a communion wafer, or 'the host', or the body and blood of our Lord, or whatever you prefer to call it.
Secondly, I don't know which candle you think I'm on that a black magician would be further up it than I am.
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"Take this shirt
Polyester white trash made in nowhere
Take this shirt and make it clean" - U2
Posts: 519 | Registered: Jan 2003
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Caveman:
Firstly, I still don't know what you mean by desecrating a communion wafer, or 'the host', or the body and blood of our Lord, or whatever you prefer to call it.
And yet you feel qualified to make pronouncements about it. What does this tell you?
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Caveman:
What sort of Jesus do you believe in who would make his soul and divinity so readily accessible to misuse by nasty unbelievers?
Maybe the kind of Jesus who, as you say:
quote:
came in the flesh and was crucified
quote:
I don't think his soul and divinity were ever seriously at risk.
No one is claiming that stealing a bit of consecrated bread risks the divinity of Jesus. It doesn't undo the work of atonement and rewind redemption.
I doubt if anyone is claiming that it in any physical way hurts the Lord, or not in any way that any other sin could be said to hurt the Lord. (well, looking at the Blessed Sacrament Webcam we have to have our doubts about that)
But that doesn't mean it isn't a different kind of sin from stealing another piece of bread.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Siegfried
Ship's ferret
# 29
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Posted
Hate to tell you this, MT, but I am really trying hard to get the whole "black magician" thing too. That just makes this whole thing seem more and more like superstition rather than Christianity.
Sieg
Posts: 5592 | From: Tallahassee, FL USA | Registered: May 2001
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
Well, I'm not sure I believe in black magic, but that doesn't mean that I appreciate the idea of someone who gets his jollies from blasphemy and desecration mucking around with our Lord's body and blood.
Even if it doesn't do anyone else any harm, I'm not sure his immortal soul is going to benefit from the activity.
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001
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Leetle Masha
Cantankerous Anchoress
# 8209
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Posted
Siegfried, perhaps the "black magician" may seem a bit remote, but trust me, there are other people who do terrible things to consecrated hosts. Some people, quite a few years ago now, thank God, took consecrated hosts from St. Patrick's cathedral and did something unspeakable to them. I wouldn't know how to find you a link now to the story, but it did happen and did not help the cause of those who committed that act "as a protest" (or so they claimed).
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eleison me, tin amartolin: have mercy on me, the sinner
Posts: 6351 | From: Hesychia, in Hyperdulia | Registered: Aug 2004
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Siegfried:
Hate to tell you this, MT, but I am really trying hard to get the whole "black magician" thing too. That just makes this whole thing seem more and more like superstition rather than Christianity.
Well, I'd say black magic is more like superstition than Christianity. But if you can't be arsed to do some googling and find out what some people would like to do with consecrated hosts, don't expect me to do it for you. That you have a hard time getting it speaks only about you, not about the existence of such people.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Max.
Shipmate
# 5846
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Posted
The First time I ever was a Eucharistic minister a lady walked past me with the host still in her hand, I quickly grabbed her shoulder and told her that she had to eat it immediatly. She looked at me as if I was crazy and I said to her "EAT IT NOW!!!" and she quickly ate it!
She probably will never come to my church again because of that but to Catholics it is INCREDIBLY important that somebody doesn't desecrate that Body of Christ. It is something so serious we just can't risk it!
This guy who is selling the Body of Christ on Ebay is evil evil evil!
-103
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For the sake of His sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.
Posts: 9716 | From: North Yorkshire | Registered: May 2004
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Ronist
Shipmate
# 5343
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Posted
You can buy the body, soul and divinity of Jesus Christ for $2000? That is such a good price.
Posts: 827 | From: Vancouver Canada | Registered: Dec 2003
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
Did they bleed or cry out like they used to do in the 12th century, that's what I want to know.
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
Posts: 7667 | From: Summerisle | Registered: May 2001
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Captain Caveman
Shipmate
# 3980
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Posted
Mousethief, you're being deliberately obtuse.
My original post on this thread was
quote:
I don't understand what the problem is.
It appears that 'what the problem is' has something to do with Catholic theology which I just don't get.
Just to clarify, by
quote:
Anyone who genuinely believes in God and that a bit of wafer is sacred and they can pay $2000 dollars for it and somehow do something nasty with it is even crazier.
I didn't mean that someone who believes that the 'consecrated host' is sacred and is concerned about people disrespecting it is crazy. Rather that anyone who believed in God yet thought they could make a significant stand against him with some religious artifact, and indeed would want to pay lots of money to do it, would be crazy.
Since this is Hell I have been less circumspect in my posts than I would have been in Purgatory. It appears I have underestimated the depth of feeling and belief about this. I apologise if I have offended anyone's sincerely held beliefs about something of great importance to them.
Callan, I'm really not hung up about money. I couldn't care less if he gave the thing away or divided it up among the poor of his community or paid someone to take it.
By the way, let's take the most likely case that the person who bought this is a devout Catholic, not some black wizard. Do they not properly understand Catholic theology? Is their mortal soul in danger?
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"Take this shirt
Polyester white trash made in nowhere
Take this shirt and make it clean" - U2
Posts: 519 | Registered: Jan 2003
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Calindreams
Shipmate
# 9147
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Posted
Maybe his soul is not in immortal danger. Some people believe it is. Apparently he doesn't. We may be personally outraged by what he is doing. But I can't believe that we ought to expect or demand the respect of our Christian beliefs from other people. We have to lead by example. Not by banning the sale of this item. Of course we have rights to our won religion and that the law should safeguard us from people who incite hated against us or discriminate us for what we believe. But these rights are not in the same category as other basic human rights.
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Toto, I don't think we're in Kansas anymore
Posts: 665 | From: Birmingham, England | Registered: Mar 2005
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Caveman:
Mousethief, you're being deliberately obtuse.
I've been accused of worse.
The short answer is, yes, people really do feel deeply on this topic. I do, and I'm not even a Roman Catholic. But I know enough about Roman Catholic beliefs, and have enough friends who are RCC, to know that this is a horrible thing and deeply, deeply offensive to Roman Catholic sensibilities.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Mad Geo
Ship's navel gazer
# 2939
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Calindreams:
Maybe his soul is not in immortal danger. Some people believe it is. Apparently he doesn't. We may be personally outraged by what he is doing. But I can't believe that we ought to expect or demand the respect of our Christian beliefs from other people. We have to lead by example. Not by banning the sale of this item. Of course we have rights to our won religion and that the law should safeguard us from people who incite hated against us or discriminate us for what we believe. But these rights are not in the same category as other basic human rights.
Well said.
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Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"
Posts: 11730 | From: People's Republic of SoCal | Registered: Jun 2002
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Peronel
The typo slayer
# 569
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by 103 (One-O-Three):
The First time I ever was a Eucharistic minister a lady walked past me with the host still in her hand, I quickly grabbed her shoulder and told her that she had to eat it immediatly. She looked at me as if I was crazy and I said to her "EAT IT NOW!!!" and she quickly ate it!
She probably will never come to my church again because of that but to Catholics it is INCREDIBLY important that somebody doesn't desecrate that Body of Christ. It is something so serious we just can't risk it!
I guess I must be lower down the candle than I thought. I would rather risk someone nicking the host - yes, and even flogging it on ebay - than risk someone being hurt, upset and embarrassed to the extent they wouldn't return to that church. Bluntly, if it comes to a choice between desecrating Christ in the host, and someone being grabbed and yelled at by a minister of the church during a service, I choose the former. God can take care of himself; people are more vulnerable.
Peronel
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Lord, I have sinned, and mine iniquity.
Deserves this hell; yet Lord deliver me.
Posts: 2367 | From: A self-inflicted exile | Registered: Jun 2001
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Siena
Ship's Bluestocking
# 5574
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Posted
It's entirely possible it was purchased by a devout Catholic, not for superstitious reasons or because of bad theology, but to ensure that it would be treated reverently and properly from here on out - rather than being treated like a collectible, or worse.
ETA: Peronel, very well said.
[ 12. April 2005, 21:15: Message edited by: Sienna ]
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The lives of Christ's poor people are starved and stunted; their wages are low; their houses often bad and insanitary and their minds full of darkness and despair. These are the real disorders of the Church. Charles Marson
Posts: 709 | From: San Diego, California, USA | Registered: Feb 2004
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Max.
Shipmate
# 5846
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Peronel:
quote:
Originally posted by 103 (One-O-Three):
The First time I ever was a Eucharistic minister a lady walked past me with the host still in her hand, I quickly grabbed her shoulder and told her that she had to eat it immediatly. She looked at me as if I was crazy and I said to her "EAT IT NOW!!!" and she quickly ate it!
She probably will never come to my church again because of that but to Catholics it is INCREDIBLY important that somebody doesn't desecrate that Body of Christ. It is something so serious we just can't risk it!
I guess I must be lower down the candle than I thought. I would rather risk someone nicking the host - yes, and even flogging it on ebay - than risk someone being hurt, upset and embarrassed to the extent they wouldn't return to that church. Bluntly, if it comes to a choice between desecrating Christ in the host, and someone being grabbed and yelled at by a minister of the church during a service, I choose the former. God can take care of himself; people are more vulnerable.
Peronel
You would choose a person over Our Lord???
-103
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For the sake of His sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.
Posts: 9716 | From: North Yorkshire | Registered: May 2004
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Peronel
The typo slayer
# 569
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by 103 (One-O-Three):
You would choose a person over Our Lord???
-103
Why not? After all, he did.
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Lord, I have sinned, and mine iniquity.
Deserves this hell; yet Lord deliver me.
Posts: 2367 | From: A self-inflicted exile | Registered: Jun 2001
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
Frankly, if someone did that to any communion wafer from any denomination, I'd be pissed off.
That they're doing it to a church that believes in transubstantiation just makes me think they are sick. Desperately sick and in need of help.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Captain Caveman
Shipmate
# 3980
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Posted
Originally posted by Sienna:
quote:
It's entirely possible it was purchased by a devout Catholic, not for superstitious reasons or because of bad theology, but to ensure that it would be treated reverently and properly from here on out - rather than being treated like a collectible, or worse.
Man, you guys must really care about this stuff if you'd be prepared to pay $2000 for it.
Originally posted by Ronist:
quote:
You can buy the body, soul and divinity of Jesus Christ for $2000? That is such a good price.
I hear they give it out for free. Better make sure you're not at 103's church though, if you want to keep it as a souvenir.
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"Take this shirt
Polyester white trash made in nowhere
Take this shirt and make it clean" - U2
Posts: 519 | Registered: Jan 2003
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rosamundi
Ship's lacemaker
# 2495
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Caveman:
Man, you guys must really care about this stuff if you'd be prepared to pay $2000 for it.
Well, of course we care deeply about "this stuff," at the moment of consecration, the Host becomes our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ. Kind of important, really, and not to be sold on Ebay.
Deborah
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Website.
Ship of Fools flickr group
Posts: 2382 | From: here or there | Registered: Mar 2002
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
Hey Caveman, there's this thing called "respect" -- you may have heard of it. Aretha Franklin sang a song about it once. You might try it. Many people find it really helps them get along with other humans. Just a thought.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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