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Originally posted by Mamacita:
Wow! Very nice, Ascension-ite!

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Originally posted by aredstatemystic:
Here is a video of Protestant hecklers shouting at the National Walsingham pilgrims. Quite sad, really. Was anyone there to experience this first hand?

And who is the Priest at the end of the video with a good sense of humor, saying, "There is no Son without the Mother"? I'd like to buy him a beer.

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Originally posted by aredstatemystic:
I shared this a few friends and we all decided that the Anglicans were the clear winners in that video! Not that we're biased, mind you -- of course not!

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Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
"There goes the dolly on a trolly".

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Originally posted by Forthview:
Whilst it may be 'sacristy humo(u)r' it is still an insult to a religious procession.Whether these people agree with the procession of our Lady or not,don't they realize that it must hurt those who are engaged in devotion.

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My point was that, of the Anglo-Catholics that I know well, all are quite intelligent, and are quite capable of seeing the irony [and indeed humor] in situations. They are also quite capable of turning the other cheek and walking away.

I'm certainly not saying the protesters were behaving as good Christians ought to behave.

One cannot fault them for doing the same thing as the procession--witnessing in the streets, but one can fault them for spoiling the witness of other faithful people. Better to witness separately than to contradict and cause ill will.

They could have simply handed out pamphlets with instruction to keep quiet during the procession, and handled their verbal protests either before or after the procession passed. They're not going to convince anybody of anything by behaving like this [in England. In America, the loudest always gains the largest following. ]

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Would these same people stand in front of a Muslim religious procession or a Hindu religious procession,both of which I have seen on the strets of Britain and shout obscenities in the name of 'biblical truth' ?

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Originally posted by Forthview:
Whilst it may be 'sacristy humo(u)r' it is still an insult to a religious procession.Whether these people agree with the procession of our Lady or not,don't they realize that it must hurt those who are engaged in devotion.
Would these same people stand in front of a Muslim religious procession or a Hindu religious procession,both of which I have seen on the strets of Britain and shout obscenities in the name of 'biblical truth' ?

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Originally posted by Forthview:
Whilst it may be 'sacristy humo(u)r' it is still an insult to a religious procession.Whether these people agree with the procession of our Lady or not,don't they realize that it must hurt those who are engaged in devotion.

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Would these same people stand in front of a Muslim religious procession or a Hindu religious procession,both of which I have seen on the strets of Britain and shout obscenities in the name of 'biblical truth' ?

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Clearly God thinks it's essential that some Christians be 'called' to bellow at, and insult, other Christians. After all, it's the witness the world has been waiting for. Doesn't it just say 'Jesus loves you' to you?

And naturally he has called these people who just happen to have very loud voices. It's not as if there's anything else they could be doing that would help build the kingdom of God, right?

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Originally posted by St.Silas the carter:

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Originally posted by Forthview:
Whilst it may be 'sacristy humo(u)r' it is still an insult to a religious procession.Whether these people agree with the procession of our Lady or not,don't they realize that it must hurt those who are engaged in devotion.
Would these same people stand in front of a Muslim religious procession or a Hindu religious procession,both of which I have seen on the strets of Britain and shout obscenities in the name of 'biblical truth' ?

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If they were from here, they might. About a year ago, there was a large and long Sikh procession through Centre-City Philadelphia, and there were some hecklersabout midway through. It reminds me of the kind of things my 10th grade English teacher organised.
That said,I really like how they sang 'Blessed Assurance'- an old favourite of mine.

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Originally posted by aredstatemystic:
And who is the Priest at the end of the video with a good sense of humor, saying, "There is no Son without the Mother"? I'd like to buy him a beer.

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Originally posted by LA Dave:
Martin L: While I adore "Lift Every Voice and Sing," in any context, it MUST (in my opinion) be accompanied by piano, not pipe organ. The latter instrument just cannot manage the tricky tempo fluctuations that make this hymn so memorable.

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Originally posted by St.Silas the carter:
Everything was going great until the glasses appeared.

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I think you have the same hymnal my parish has.

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Originally posted by FCB:
It's OK, but I would probably have gone with RitualSong.

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Originally posted by Martin L:
Am I correct in assuming that you had an older, not-as-attractive freestanding altar right in front of the high altar, and that this is a reform of the reform?

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Originally posted by Qoheleth.:
This is a request, please, for a recommendation for DVD-quality video of some luscious Orthodox liturgy to kick off a house group next Weds. They've asked for a brief rundown on Ortho theology (Lossky and Ware) but I want to put it in context.

Michael?

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I'm sorry, Qoheleth. I've been away for a few days, basking in the splendid atmosphere surrounding the Kursk Root Icon, which is currently in the UK. It came to my parish on Wednesday, where it was good to see a few shipmates.

There are oodles of clips of Orthodox services on Youtube. If you look hard enough, you'll find some of DVD quality, although many are simply taken on people's camera phones or digital cameras and aren't very steady or of particularly good quality.

Some which I know aren't too bad are these clips of excerpts from a Moleben (supplicatory service) before the Kursk Root Icon, showing the Gospel, the supplicatory refrains, and the magnification. I can send you translartions of what is being sung if you choose to use these and would appreciate the words in English.

Of unusually superb quality are this clip of an episcopal ordination in the Orthodox Church of America and these two of the newly-consecrated bishop ordaining a deacon.

If those aren't up to scratch and you let me have an address for you before 3 o' clock tomorrow or thereabouts, I can pop a DVD in the post to you with excerpts of services from the 75th anniversary celebrations of the monastery at Jordanville.

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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis

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Originally posted by New Yorker:
I don't know the Orthodox word for the "mitre" or crown the bishop wears and I'm a bit lazzy to check Wiki, but is there a significance in that some of such headgear in the above video were red and some gold?

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The mitre is one of those liturgical items that has had its common English name imported into Orthodoxy, rather than a Greek or Russian word being naturalised into the English language. I think the latter usually happens for items that don't have a clear parallel in the western rites or where the same item has developed so differently in eastern and western rites that the fact that the resulting implements have the same roots isn't immediately apparent. (I'm sure someone will now provide us with a list of examples proving me wrong ). In any case, the word mitre seems to me to be a bit of a misnomer for the Byzantine style because it doesn't come to a point as the western one does, being a true mitre. Still, it's the word that we use. I shall perhaps throw mitres into my box of oddly-named things, along with hierodeacons.

Preamble over, no, there's no significance to the colour of the mitre. It can match the vestments or complement them, or completely clash with them, but it depends on what the bishop happened to pack that day and nothing of any great significance. What is significant about the different mitres is the presence or absence of a jewelled Cross on top. Traditionally, the jewelled Cross was reserved to bishops who ranked as metropolitans and above. All other bishops would simply wear a plain mitre. I think it was in the 20th century that different churches began granting the jewelled Cross to all bishops. ROCOR was among the churches that held out for the longest, only adopting this custom of jewelled crosses for all bishops' mitres about three years ago, leaving the plain ones to priests who have been granted the privilege of wearing the mitre. My own archbishop still sometimes wears one of his plain ones. If you look at the videos again, you will see that, immediately prior to the ordination, Archimandrite Melchisedek is wearing a plain mitre, but when he emerges as Bishop Melchisedeck, he is wearing a jewel-cross-topped mitre.

[ 21. June 2010, 15:10: Message edited by: Michael Astley ]

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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis

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Originally posted by New Yorker:
Some priests (i.e. not bishops) are permitted to wear mitres? That seems odd.

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Originally posted by New Yorker:
Some priests (i.e. not bishops) are permitted to wear mitres? That seems odd.

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Originally posted by New Yorker:
Some priests (i.e. not bishops) are permitted to wear mitres? That seems odd.

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Originally posted by St.Silas the carter:

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Originally posted by New Yorker:
Some priests (i.e. not bishops) are permitted to wear mitres? That seems odd.

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It is'nt really. Formerly, the highest level of monsignori (Protonary Apostolic) Were alowed to wear them. The pastor of my parish in the 50's was one, and not only could he wear a mitre, he was also granted the privilege of celebrating pontifical masses. There are some photos of that around, I'll see if I can find them.

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Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
IIRC it was Dom Gregory Dix who contended that the mitre was originally the distinctive headgear of deaconesses and that it was bishops in Spain who started appropriating the pointy hat for themselves and forbade it to the ladies. I can't recall when this development took place -- perhaps in the 6th or 7th centuries.

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Originally posted by Forthview:
FCB I think that Paul VI declared that all cardinals should have the personal rank of archbishop - if not of a 'working' see then of a titular see.I would imagine that Dulles would actually be an archbishop of a titular see.

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