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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Purgatory: Archbishop Welby
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Hairy Biker
Shipmate
# 12086
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Posted
It looks like the decision on the next Archbishop of Canterbury has been made and leaked. What do we know about Justin Welby and what are shipmates reactions (assuming this is significant)?
[ 28. January 2013, 23:49: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
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there [are] four important things in life: religion, love, art and science. At their best, they’re all just tools to help you find a path through the darkness. None of them really work that well, but they help.
Damien Hirst
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SusanDoris
Incurable Optimist
# 12618
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Posted
There was a BBC Radio 4 Profile of him not so long ago and he sounds like a very sensible sort of man, with feet firmly attached to the ground.
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I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
Posts: 3083 | From: UK | Registered: May 2007
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
If Welby makes the top name it leaves David Cameron with a dilemma.
With Cameron so keen on pushing through gay marriages will he be able to put forward a person who is so staunchly against it to the Queen. If Welby is chosen it is possible that Cameron would go for the fall back option.
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Last ever sig ...
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Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
I am in the diocese, and he recently confirmed young Master Tor.
I've only met him a couple of times, but I like the cut of the man's jib. Yes, he's quite posh, but self-deprecating with it. He's also very smart - his sermons are well worth staying awake for: enough meat to chew on, without being inaccessible. He's, as you might expect, modern (he preaches using a tablet computer) and mercifully, for my low Anglican tastes, tat-free.
If the rumours are true and he's off to Cantab, it'll be a loss for the region, but a gain for the country. I imagine that if he has a weakness, it'll be this: he'll expect clergy and other bishops to toe the line; within clear and negotiated boundaries for sure, but to be self-disciplined servants of the church nevertheless.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
If Welby makes the top name it leaves David Cameron with a dilemma.
With Cameron so keen on pushing through gay marriages will he be able to put forward a person who is so staunchly against it to the Queen. If Welby is chosen it is possible that Cameron would go for the fall back option.
Unfortunately* none of the front runners are willing to let go of the belief that the CofE has any business telling non-members who they should or should not marry. In a way that makes it easier inasmuch as it means that it least it isn't an issue for choosing between candidates; on the other hand it means I struggle to find particular support for any of them.
*IMV, and therefore that of any right-thinking** person
**i.e. everyone who agrees with me.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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dv
Shipmate
# 15714
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chapelhead:
O goody, another old Etonian.
Is it your fault where YOU were sent to school? Too chippy by half....
Posts: 70 | From: Lancs UK | Registered: Jun 2010
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dv
Shipmate
# 15714
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Posted
Justin was great as Dean of Liverpool. We were sorry to see him go. He's got lots of life experience - working in Africa, loss of a young daughter - and is a good communicator (something the ABC role desperately needs). Sadly, he's anti same-sex marriage but I wouldn't expect to agree with any candidate on all issues.
Posts: 70 | From: Lancs UK | Registered: Jun 2010
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Unfortunately* none of the front runners are willing to let go of the belief that the CofE has any business telling non-members who they should or should not marry.
And whoever gets it, I suspect that once gay marriage is enshrined in law, the C of E will come round to accepting it as it has civil partnerships. More important than his attitude to this issue, it's more relevant that the ABC is pastorally accepting of his gay clergy (and laity of course, but that isn't a disiciplinary issue).
But I hope it is Justin. I feel for his family though, and for Durham.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
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Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chapelhead:
O goody, another old Etonian.
Eton is a very big school and not all Old Etonians go on to become members of the Bullingdon Club.
Anyone who can write a dissertation titled "Can companies sin" could be very embarrassing to Osborne & co. I don't think it's decided yet.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Chapelhead
I am
# 21
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by dv:
quote:
Originally posted by Chapelhead:
O goody, another old Etonian.
Is it your fault where YOU were sent to school? Too chippy by half....
Did I say it was his fault? Just call me an unreconstructed class warrior.
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Eton is a very big school and not all Old Etonians go on to become members of the Bullingdon Club.
And as he went to Cambridge and not Oxford, presumably the Lord Bishop wasn't a member.
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Anyone who can write a dissertation titled "Can companies sin" could be very embarrassing to Osborne & co. I don't think it's decided yet.
Indeed. It does seem a bit odd that so many commentators have remarked on his experience of 'the real world' as though being an executive for an oil company is so much more 'real' than the day-to-day work of a parish priest.
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At times like this I find myself thinking, what would the Amish do?
Posts: 9123 | From: Near where I was before. | Registered: Aug 2001
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Custard
Shipmate
# 5402
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Posted
I hope it's +Justin as well. I've never met him, but I've heard very good things about him from people who know him.
He seems to be that very rare thing in the C of E - someone whom all sides can agree is a Good Thing.
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Posts: 4523 | From: Snot's Place | Registered: Jan 2004
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chapelhead:
Indeed. It does seem a bit odd that so many commentators have remarked on his experience of 'the real world' as though being an executive for an oil company is so much more 'real' than the day-to-day work of a parish priest.
But possibly more relevant to overseeing the Anglican Communion.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Thurible
Shipmate
# 3206
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
But I hope it is Justin. I feel for his family though, and for Durham.
As one who is about to lose his bishop after two minutes (+Ebbsfleet moving to Fulham), I can only imagine how pissed off Durham would be.
Thurible
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"I've been baptised not lobotomised."
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chapelhead:
[QUOTE]
1. Did I say it was his fault? Just call me an unreconstructed class warrior.
2. It does seem a bit odd that so many commentators have remarked on his experience of 'the real world' as though being an executive for an oil company is so much more 'real' than the day-to-day work of a parish priest.
1. Me too - what is it with unelected committees and public school boys? If the music stops go for one of the chaps?
2. I'd be more interested if he'd been an oil rig worker not an exceutive.
3. He ain't the first to reflect on whether companies can sin .... don't big him up too much, too soon.
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
quote:
Originally posted by Chapelhead:
Indeed. It does seem a bit odd that so many commentators have remarked on his experience of 'the real world' as though being an executive for an oil company is so much more 'real' than the day-to-day work of a parish priest.
But possibly more relevant to overseeing the Anglican Communion.
I've nothing at all against Justin but hasn't he had rather a protected existence - Eton, Cambridge and a scion of the Butler dynasty to boot? Please let him be who his is and not pretend he is somehow "down wiv da kids" when it comes to personal experience of social need. For all his faults, at least George Carey had been there and has never forgotten it.
An executive in an oil company is the real world? Please don't make me laugh - it cracks my make up. A real world possibly but not the real world - perhaps we need an ABC who has had to sweat blood to get state benefit to understand/experience real life.
He's establishment. Period. Let him be the Juston he is without anyone's apologetic as a man of the people.
Now what will be interesting is to see how cameron and Justin now espond to his "traditional" views on same sex marriage.
Perhaps a choice of Number 2 - who is? (Drum rolls ...).
If Justin changes his position on SSM to get the job, then that's trust in him shafted (another Rowan, then). If he doesn't I can't see him getting beyond the PM who has made SSM such a do or die measure.
[ 07. November 2012, 13:05: Message edited by: ExclamationMark ]
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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Chapelhead
I am
# 21
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
quote:
Originally posted by Chapelhead:
Indeed. It does seem a bit odd that so many commentators have remarked on his experience of 'the real world' as though being an executive for an oil company is so much more 'real' than the day-to-day work of a parish priest.
But possibly more relevant to overseeing the Anglican Communion.
Is there a common theme in stuffing the Nigerians?
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At times like this I find myself thinking, what would the Amish do?
Posts: 9123 | From: Near where I was before. | Registered: Aug 2001
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chapelhead:
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
quote:
Originally posted by Chapelhead:
Indeed. It does seem a bit odd that so many commentators have remarked on his experience of 'the real world' as though being an executive for an oil company is so much more 'real' than the day-to-day work of a parish priest.
But possibly more relevant to overseeing the Anglican Communion.
Is there a common theme in stuffing the Nigerians?
I have had several e-mails from Nigerian princes offering me investment opportunities in that country's oil industry sector. Perhaps Bishop Welby's work experience will provide him with skills to take advantage of these offers on behalf of the Church Commissioners and the pension funds.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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EtymologicalEvangelical
Shipmate
# 15091
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor
I imagine that if he has a weakness, it'll be this: he'll expect clergy and other bishops to toe the line...
You mean, he may actually have some leadership skills?
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark
I'd be more interested if he'd been an oil rig worker not an exceutive.
I detect the unpleasant smell of inverted snobbery.
quote:
I've nothing at all against Justin but hasn't he had rather a protected existence - Eton, Cambridge and a scion of the Butler dynasty to boot? Please let him be who his is and not pretend he is somehow "down wiv da kids" when it comes to personal experience of social need. For all his faults, at least George Carey had been there and has never forgotten it.
An executive in an oil company is the real world? Please don't make me laugh - it cracks my make up. A real world possibly but not the real world - perhaps we need an ABC who has had to sweat blood to get state benefit to understand/experience real life.
He's establishment. Period.
Frankly, I am more interested in whether the ABC has integrity and a grasp of truth, than whether he had a privileged upbringing or not.
As someone who has had experience of different levels of society (ex public school*, ex uni, ex international sales, currently in a very low paid job following redundancy), I can assure you that the romanticised view of those "at the bottom", and the vilification of those "at the top", is misguided and discriminatory.
*for N. American readers that's private school (we do love our irony!)
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You can argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome': but you neither can nor need argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome, but I'm not saying this is true'. CS Lewis
Posts: 3625 | From: South Coast of England | Registered: Sep 2009
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Mudfrog
Shipmate
# 8116
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Posted
Is he evangelical?
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"The point of having an open mind, like having an open mouth, is to close it on something solid."
G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 8237 | From: North Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2004
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by EtymologicalEvangelical:
[QUOTE]
1. Frankly, I am more interested in whether the ABC has integrity and a grasp of truth, than whether he had a privileged upbringing or not.
2. As someone who has had experience of different levels of society (ex public school*, ex uni, ex international sales, currently in a very low paid job following redundancy), I can assure you that the romanticised view of those "at the bottom", and the vilification of those "at the top", is misguided and discriminatory.
1. I agree with you.
2. It may be misguided from your POV but from where I've sat, it isn't. Nor, is it discriminatory.
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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Jolly Jape
Shipmate
# 3296
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
Is he evangelical?
He used to attend HTB, so I guess he's a charismatic evangelical.
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To those who have never seen the flow and ebb of God's grace in their lives, it means nothing. To those who have seen it, even fleetingly, even only once - it is life itself. (Adeodatus)
Posts: 3011 | From: A village of gardens | Registered: Sep 2002
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by EtymologicalEvangelical:
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor
I imagine that if he has a weakness, it'll be this: he'll expect clergy and other bishops to toe the line...
You mean, he may actually have some leadership skills?
Yes. But I'm not certain those are what's needed for the CofE, or the Anglican Communion. What he needs is the herding cats skill, and he may not have been in the church long enough to develop that.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Hairy Biker
Shipmate
# 12086
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by EtymologicalEvangelical:
*for N. American readers that's private school (we do love our irony!)
That's historic, not ironic. British public schools are open to the public, which is where the name comes from. Anyone who can pay the fees can have an education. When they were formed, that was an innovation. It's also why they qualify as charities.
(Sorry, that's a tangent)
[ 07. November 2012, 15:51: Message edited by: Hairy Biker ]
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there [are] four important things in life: religion, love, art and science. At their best, they’re all just tools to help you find a path through the darkness. None of them really work that well, but they help.
Damien Hirst
Posts: 683 | From: This Sceptred Isle | Registered: Nov 2006
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Mudfrog
Shipmate
# 8116
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jolly Jape:
quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
Is he evangelical?
He used to attend HTB, so I guess he's a charismatic evangelical.
Goodness, that's going to prove interesting!
Go Mr Welby!
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"The point of having an open mind, like having an open mouth, is to close it on something solid."
G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 8237 | From: North Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2004
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Custard
Shipmate
# 5402
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Posted
He's also been Dean of Liverpool, so is more than competent at High Church Stuff (technical term)...
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Adam's likeness, Lord, efface;
Stamp thine image in its place.
Posts: 4523 | From: Snot's Place | Registered: Jan 2004
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
Do they do High Church stuff at Liverpool, then? ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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lilyswinburne
Shipmate
# 12934
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Posted
Are there any bishops at all in the C of E who support same-sex marriage?
Posts: 126 | From: California | Registered: Aug 2007
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Jolly Jape
Shipmate
# 3296
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Posted
quote:
originally posted by Etymological Evangelical quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor
I imagine that if he has a weakness, it'll be this: he'll expect clergy and other bishops to toe the line...
You mean, he may actually have some leadership skills?
Since when have leadership skills been synonymous with expecting the "led" to toe the party line? Heaven forbid that this thinking should be present in the church. Leadership (in the church, anyway) should be the art of enabling people and churches to be released into the ministries set aside for them by the Holy Spirit. The only authentic authority of a Christian, be he or she lay, deacon, priest, bishop or archbishop, is the authority to serve. "Let a thousand flowers bloom" might be a phrase coined by an atheist, but ISTM to encapsulate the manifold nature of the Church's mission.
Fixed code
-Gwai
[ 07. November 2012, 19:35: Message edited by: Gwai ]
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To those who have never seen the flow and ebb of God's grace in their lives, it means nothing. To those who have seen it, even fleetingly, even only once - it is life itself. (Adeodatus)
Posts: 3011 | From: A village of gardens | Registered: Sep 2002
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Do they do High Church stuff at Liverpool, then?
Bishop Ryle must be turning in his grave at what they get up to in 'his' cathedral, but it's no way 'high church'. Just very ponderous and pompous 'cathedral' worship.
Having said that, though, it seems a good deal less ponderous and pompous after three years of Dean Welby than it was under the previous liberal catholic Dean (who himself was anything but p & p, so it was strange). It was Justin who hosted the Walsingham Day at the cathedral, complete with Exposition of the MBS and Solemn Evensong (I can't remember whether that came with Benediction but I rather think it did).
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Brian: You're all individuals!
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Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Jolly Jape
Shipmate
# 3296
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilyswinburne:
Are there any bishops at all in the C of E who support same-sex marriage?
I'm quite sure there are, probably many more than admit to it, but, even amongst evangelical CofE congregations, my (admittedly anecdotally based) view lay people think that the church is making itself look foolish over the idea, since the whole thing is a done deal in society at large, and we should get on with blessing and strengthening the good.
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To those who have never seen the flow and ebb of God's grace in their lives, it means nothing. To those who have seen it, even fleetingly, even only once - it is life itself. (Adeodatus)
Posts: 3011 | From: A village of gardens | Registered: Sep 2002
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Garasu
Shipmate
# 17152
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilyswinburne:
Are there any bishops at all in the C of E who support same-sex marriage?
Nick Holtam, apparently.
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"Could I believe in the doctrine without believing in the deity?". - Modesitt, L. E., Jr., 1943- Imager.
Posts: 889 | From: Surrey Heath (England) | Registered: Jun 2012
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Oscar the Grouch
Adopted Cascadian
# 1916
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Custard:
He seems to be that very rare thing in the C of E - someone whom all sides can agree is a Good Thing.
That seems extraordinarily naive. Actually, it's just plain wrong. There are plenty of people who would disagree with the idea that he is a Good Thing as ABC. His inexperience, his privileged background, his views on homosexuality... the list of potential objections is long (as indeed it would be for EVERY candidate).
Just because he's an evangelical, that doesn't automatically make him a Good Thing.
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
quote:
Originally posted by Chapelhead:
Indeed. It does seem a bit odd that so many commentators have remarked on his experience of 'the real world' as though being an executive for an oil company is so much more 'real' than the day-to-day work of a parish priest.
But possibly more relevant to overseeing the Anglican Communion.
Only if you think the oil industry is comparable to the C of E. And only if you agree that part of the role description for the ABC is to oversee the Anglican Communion. I would challenge both assumptions.
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
1. Me too - what is it with unelected committees and public school boys? If the music stops go for one of the chaps?
2. I'd be more interested if he'd been an oil rig worker not an exceutive.
3. He ain't the first to reflect on whether companies can sin .... don't big him up too much, too soon.
1. I do think this is a potential problem. The people at large in the UK are already deeply wary of the way that Old Etonians now seem to be running most of the country. It is as if we have stepped back in time 100 years or so. When added to the increasing irrelevancy of the C of E, there is a strong argument to be made that Welby's appointment (IF true) would be regarded as another step into irrelevancy.
2. Agreed.
3. Agreed. And it's not as if the answer to the question is that hard. (The answer is "of course they can, dummy!")
FWIW, here's my own views:
a) I hope it's not Welby. From what I've read, he would be the wrong person for now. And I certainly don't think that the situation calls for "strong leadership skills" if that is a cypher for "forcing people to get in line and coming down hard on anyone who doesn't".
b) The "gay question" really is a big factor. As has already been said, as far as society is concerned, this is pretty much a done deal. The new ABC will have to be someone who can work creatively with that. Someone who is going to dig his toes in and try to force the C of E to "hold the line" is just going to end up looking very silly very quickly.
c) Equally important is that whoever gets the nod will be the first ABC to ordain a woman bishop (unless General Synod collapses into complete imbecility). That means that they HAVE to be someone who will do so with great enthusiasm and will then give deep levels of support to that woman bishop as every molecule of her life gets scrutinised by a press that will be ready to spot and highlight the first minor mistake.
d) Once this whole farago is over, whoever gets the job should make it his first priority to identify everyone in the CNC and in senior levels at Church House who has been leaking to the press and then sacking them. There's no excuse.
Sadly, I have no personal preferences as to who should get the nod. I can quickly discount most of the main contenders for one reason or another. But I find credible candidates that I might get enthusiastic about as hard to uncover as uncut diamonds in my compost heap.
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Faradiu, dundeibáwa weyu lárigi weyu
Posts: 3871 | From: Gamma Quadrant, just to the left of Galifrey | Registered: Dec 2001
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
If one believes the Torygraph, it is the Bishop of Durham.
Giles Fraser, who has just accepted an award from Stonewall for being supportive of gay rights, thinks he's a good thing. As does a priest friend of mine in the diocese of Durham who is well to the left of the liberal feminist spectrum.
When has Justin voiced any opinions on gay marriage etc which suggest he is way out of line with what the rest of the bishops are thinking? It's not surprising that with a conservative evangelical background he takes a conservative line on this. I would be more interested to learn how gay priests in his current diocese have been treated. The Bishop of Liverpool, another conservative evangelical, has radically changed his views on this issue and I don't think it's unlikely that Justin might too.
The fact that he went to Eton (hardly his fault anyway) hasn't prevented his daughters (at least the youngest of them) from being educated at an inner-city comprehensive school in Liverpool. He gets kudos for this in my book.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chapelhead:
Where's that lad with the blindfold gone?
Still here. I'm not believing a word about Welby's appointment until it's official.
Unless I see in his hands the print of the Prime Minister's nails, and place my finger in the mark of the CNC's approval, and place my hand in his side, I will not believe.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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EtymologicalEvangelical
Shipmate
# 15091
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid
The fact that he went to Eton (hardly his fault anyway)...
What do you mean 'fault'??
Are you suggesting that it's a sin to go to Eton?
Inverted snobbery and discrimination strikes again!
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You can argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome': but you neither can nor need argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome, but I'm not saying this is true'. CS Lewis
Posts: 3625 | From: South Coast of England | Registered: Sep 2009
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
Hang on here, EE: I'm trying to defend him! Some people are using 'old Etonian' as a way of dismissing him. It's not inverted snobbery to suggest that coming from such a privileged world one might have little sympathy for those outside it (some contemporary politicians spring to mind) but it's not inevitable. I certainly don't think +Justin shows any signs of being a snob, inverted or otherwise.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
I think it was always odds-on that the post would go to an evangelical. That's how these things work in the Anglican communion, they tend to rotate things around:
Fisher was sort of evangelical-ish (I think).
Ramsey was Anglo-Catholic.
Coggan was supportive of women's ordination, so that probably made him ... what? MoR? evangelical?
Runcie was liberal catholic.
Carey was evangelical.
Williams is liberal catholic/paleo-orthodox
From what I've heard I'd be reasonably happy with Welby, although a tad suspicious of the establishment tag (although I can live with that in the 'national church') and the HTB background.
But he does appear to be broader and more grounded than might be expected from someone with a connection to HTB. Don't get me wrong, a lot of HTB-ish influenced people are broader too ... but it's not a style that sits well with me these days.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
There was a time I cared who got elected Archbishop of Canterbury. Those times have past. We will pray for Justin, Archbishop of Canterbury. At least, Christopher Cocksworth isn't going to be ABC. I would spend the first 6 weeks fighting the urge to giggle in the middle of the prayers of the people.
Welby does have a posh look about him. ![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif)
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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Jonathan Strange
Shipmate
# 11001
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Posted
I must out myself as having a connection to the new Archbishop. My wife worked with him in his Southam parish and later was the private music teacher for some of his children. I've met him on a number of occasions.
He is a man of intelligence, integrity and courage and is a very interesting choice for Archbish. I was surprised - honestly bowled over - because I think the next ten years will see the collapse of the Worldwide Anglican Communion and I worry for Justin because of that. I thought he would be the one after this one who would have to pick up the pieces.
He will bring a breath of fresh air whilst also being a steady hand on the tiller (do those metaphors mix well?).
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"Wrong will be right, when Aslan comes in sight,
At the sound of his roar, sorrows will be no more,
When he bears his teeth, winter meets its death,
When he shakes his mane, we shall have spring again"
Posts: 1327 | From: Wessex | Registered: Feb 2006
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Jonathan Strange
Shipmate
# 11001
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Posted
I just reread my post and I sound like I'm chasing glory. By 'outing' my connection to JW, I mean to be open about a huge bias... sorry all.
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"Wrong will be right, when Aslan comes in sight,
At the sound of his roar, sorrows will be no more,
When he bears his teeth, winter meets its death,
When he shakes his mane, we shall have spring again"
Posts: 1327 | From: Wessex | Registered: Feb 2006
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
Given the PM's views on SSM, even if (and it's still not certain that he has got the job), Justin will be in a tough spot if he accepts.
If Justin changes his mind on SSM then he will be seen as another Rowan. can you trust any of his convictions or will he too, bend with the winds of pressure? Not what the CofE needs IMHO.
If he gets in and sticks to what he believes now on SSM, he'll have the most torrid time and the CofE will look even more out of kilter with UK society.
Cameron may well ask him a few questions and depending on the answers go for the alternative choice. In which Justin may not get in.
Single transferrable vote anyone?
The Old Etonian issue isn't inverted snobbery, it's just reflecting the groundswell of opinion in the country against a perceived elite who are providing jobs for their mates or the "sort of people" they get on with. Best avoided in the current climate if the CofE wants to keep its hands really clean of any criticism however wrong or ill conceived it may be. Guilt by association is still guilt - besides which Justin hasn't had much experience of a top job and besides which didn't he say he didn't want it?
Now that's either disarming honesty or plain daft. If he did say that, then he's disqualified anyway.
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
I certainly don't think +Justin shows any signs of being a snob, inverted or otherwise.
It would be interesting to look at his diary and see where he spends his time when he visits schools and such like. The last time I saw such an analysis, the people concerned spent a disproportionate amount of time in public (private) schools and not much elsewhere.
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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Mr. Rob
Shipmate
# 5823
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Do they do High Church stuff at Liverpool, then?
... it seems a good deal less ponderous and pompous after three years of Dean Welby ... It was Justin who hosted the Walsingham Day at the cathedral, complete with Exposition of the MBS and Solemn Evensong (I can't remember whether that came with Benediction but I rather think it did).
I saw some video footage of that service which was celebrated in the glorious Lady Chapel of Liverpool Cathedral. The service was every bit as grand as the setting which can itself accommodate several hundred worshipers. Good for Justin for hosting the event there.
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Posts: 862 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2004
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Triple Tiara
Ship's Papabile
# 9556
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Posted
An interesting factoid: Justin Welby preached at the final Eucharist in St James, Darlington in February of the then Vicar who went to the Ordinariate with the bulk of the congregation. He was generous, gracious and encouraging. He was also due to attend their reception into the Catholic Church but was prevented by a very serious pastoral situation which had arisen. I thought that was very magnanimous of him and he certainly gained several ticks in my estimation - no rancour and bitterness, people need to be where they need to be etc.
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I'm a Roman. You may call me Caligula.
Posts: 5905 | From: London, England | Registered: May 2005
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CJS
Shipmate
# 3503
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Posted
So not Peter Jensen then?
Posts: 665 | From: Sydney | Registered: Nov 2002
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