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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Martin60: You, on the other hand...
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
This ain't the forum W, sorry, my fault.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Sorry mr cheesy.
Does this help?
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
Sorry mr cheesy.
I think you said more than enough 'sorrys' Martin.
I mean hey, marvin called you down here, he's had his pound of flesh. Some other spleen venting has gone on. The world is still on its axis as far as we know.
Time for that cup of tea I would have thought.
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Sor... thanks rolyn. Walkies then salad with DUH-RINK. A full bodied red. Dunno WHEN I'll fit the tea in, usually VERY last thing on a Satdy ni'. After a movie and ... that.
Not very Hellish, sor...
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
Hey, the way I see it if My Immortal doesn't give you the feels then there's something wrong with you. And you liking Evanescence gives us something in common that's a bit more human than all the other stuff.
As rolyn says, I've had my rant here and that's all I was after. It's up to others if they want this thread to carry on, and it's up to you if you want it to happen again in a few months or not.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
I don't mate, I really don't. This has stretched my paradigm, made me look in to my abyss: so thank you for the Hell call. Don't hesitate. I regard you, mdijon, mr cheesy as friends for having sharpened my iron.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
READY FOR HUGS.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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jacobsen
seeker
# 14998
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Posted
Metaphors R us.
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But God, holding a candle, looks for all who wander, all who search. - Shifra Alon
Beauty fades, dumb is forever-Judge Judy
The man who made time, made plenty.
Posts: 8040 | From: Æbleskiver country | Registered: Aug 2009
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Paul.--
No. Actually, cliffdweller linked to an article about Bebbington's Quadrilateral, which has four fundamental points about Evangelicalism--social justice, and three others.
Martin said it was 3/4 wrong. cliffdweller asked which three, and Martin said "the other three". Since they'd been talking about whether or not social justice was compatible with Evangelicalism, it's clear to me that he meant "the social justice part of the Quadrilateral is good, but not the other three".
ISTM that it's clear in context, if the reader followed cliffdweller's link.
[ 30. May 2016, 11:23: Message edited by: Golden Key ]
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
I had the same thought when I first read that post, but like Golden Key I worked it out. However it does seem rather close to the wind considering the discussion on this thread. And it would be worth explaining in a discussion thread why exactly it is that those other 3 points are incompatible with social activism. It's clear that many people don't find them a barrier.
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
It's gonna be a learning curve, guys.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
It's gonna be a learning curve, guys.
Again. Just like the last time. And the time before that. And the time before that. And the time before that.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
Yes. Place your bets for the timing of the next Calling Martin to Hell thread.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Now, now, we need our remaining markers of the Ships cycles. We've already lost the shorter cycle of the calling of IngoB to Hell.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Well, we'll wait and see. It's not impossible for somebody to change. Just very, very difficult--as I know from my own experience.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Well, we'll wait and see. It's not impossible for somebody to change. Just very, very difficult--as I know from my own experience.
You wait, and I'll see. I'll be extremely surprised if anything changes.
Where are we now - on the verge of June? We're probably looking at around early 2017 for the next Martin Hell Call. Book your seats in advance now.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
Should have thought it a good subject for a Ship's poll.
Those who want a new Martin against those who want keep the the old one.
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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Paul.
Shipmate
# 37
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Posted
Golden Key - I looked at the thread again and I still see the same passive-aggressive game being played. He was asked twice before the "3/4" comment to clarify. After that comment he remains vague forcing one to work out the answer or ask further. Because ISTM he wants the attention.
As you say we have to consider context. And we have the context of his past behaviour where he's done this over and over.
I still see dick-ish behaviour I'm afraid.
Posts: 3689 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2004
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Paul.
Shipmate
# 37
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Should have thought it a good subject for a Ship's poll.
Those who want a new Martin against those who want keep the the old one.
I'll go for the old old one if we have a choice. As someone said above, the Martin who believed in "God-the-Killer" seemed much nicer.
Posts: 3689 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2004
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Fineline
Shipmate
# 12143
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Should have thought it a good subject for a Ship's poll.
Those who want a new Martin against those who want keep the the old one.
I'm probably a minority, but I would vote the old one. I have always liked Martin's posts - one of my favourite posters to read, and I would be sad if he changed and wrote posts the way the rest of you do. All this stuff about wanting to change him reminds me of the Enid Blyton boarding school stories where one person doesn't fit in and all the girls in the school have these smug, serious little meetings about how to teach them a lesson to make them change!
Seriously, I don't always understand every detail of his posts literally, but I don't with a lot of people - that is not unique to Martin. But with Martin's posts, I generally get a sense of the ideas behind them, and I also get the feeling the are not intended to be fully understandable anyway, because they are not using language in that way. So many concepts, particularly about faith and God, are huge, and people so often use words to control and confine concepts that can't be controlled and confined. Martin is one person who doesn't do this. I find his posts quite a relief to read - he lets things be messy.
Posts: 2375 | From: England | Registered: Dec 2006
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
You can keep whichever you please. To me, his posts come across as oscillating between mawkish and condemnatory. Either way, for me it's a complete turn-off. That, and the inflexibility.
If he wants to play games with the rest of you by hiding behind a fog of obfuscation, and you want to buy into that, that's your decision. As far as I'm concerned, life's too short to waste it trying to figure out what some self-appointed puzzlemaster may or may not be thinking.
He's had warnings to be less opaque. We've been here before. We'll be here again. He has no more intention of changing to please those who don't like his style than they have of changing to suit him.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
rolyn--
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Should have thought it a good subject for a Ship's poll.
Those who want a new Martin against those who want keep the the old one.
If you're serious, and not sarcastic, that seems rather mean.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Fineline
Shipmate
# 12143
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
If he wants to play games with the rest of you by hiding behind a fog of obfuscation, and you want to buy into that, that's your decision.
See, to me, that comes across as patronising - as if people who like Martin's posts are being played with and gullibly buying into it. I've never found Martin's posts a game. I've had genuine conversations with him.
But everyone has different things that they find turn-offs. I find posts that seem patronising or snobby a turn-off, for instance. I don't find Martin patronising or snobby. But then to you he comes across as mawkish. I find the way some people here express sad things in a deliberately tough way as kind of pretentiously non-mawkish, and therefore all the more mawkish. But I suspect a lot of these things are differences in social class and cultural norms.
How I see it is Martin is as he is, and it is not the way most people here are, but that is not a bad thing. I genuinely find it strange that he is given warnings about his way of communicating. Not everyone can communicate in the same way. Obviously I have no control over it, and what will happen will happen, but I will miss him if he is thrown out of the Ship.
Posts: 2375 | From: England | Registered: Dec 2006
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Paul.--
quote:
Originally posted by Paul.:
Golden Key - I looked at the thread again and I still see the same passive-aggressive game being played. He was asked twice before the "3/4" comment to clarify. After that comment he remains vague forcing one to work out the answer or ask further. Because ISTM he wants the attention.
As you say we have to consider context. And we have the context of his past behaviour where he's done this over and over.
I still see dick-ish behaviour I'm afraid.
Looking at the page on the link you gave, I see him interacting and explaining several things.
Here, cliffdweller said : "But I appreciate the unexpected clarification." He also clarified something for mdijon and apologized for not being clear, and mdijon thanked him.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Fineline ![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif) for your last two posts.
Honestly, how many of us would be able to cope if Shipmates who don't like *us* (for whatever reasons) called us to task in the way Martin has been on this thread?
As I said earlier: If you think he's specifically insulted you, then, by all means, ask him about it. But if you think he's too cryptic, or playing games, or seeking attention (as we're all doing, by posting), then scroll on by. You'll be much happier, as will those of us who like Martin and value his posts.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Golden Key, I agree with your previous post but not the last one. Hell is for situations where the OP has gotten sufficiently annoyed that "scroll on by" just doesn't cut it anymore. If we didn't have Hell as a safety valve, we'd end up with the not-so-hidden conflict smearing itself across all the other boards in the form of sniping and not-so-covert hostility. I'd much rather have it out in the open where it can be dealt with. If the complaint is just, hopefully the named individual will learn from it. And if it's NOT just, people like yourself can come and kick the rest of us up the arse.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Fineline:
See, to me, that comes across as patronising - as if people who like Martin's posts are being played with and gullibly buying into it.
That's what I believe he's doing. He's quite capable of communicating clearly if he wants to.
quote:
I don't find Martin patronising or snobby. But then to you he comes across as mawkish.
I'm referring to the stuff about bursting into tears and O what a broken wretch he is that flares up periodically in his posts. Pure melodrama. Do you really prefer someone who behaves like that, or someone who is quietly trying to get a handle on it?
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
As I said earlier: If you think he's specifically insulted you, then, by all means, ask him about it. But if you think he's too cryptic, or playing games, or seeking attention (as we're all doing, by posting), then scroll on by. You'll be much happier, as will those of us who like Martin and value his posts.
Yes, yes. We must all turn a blind eye to anything we don't like. I've done that in every previous Martin Hell call. I've kept quiet and said nothing. Now I'm saying something because the Hell calls have become a regular feature. Nobody should be a fixture in Hell. It should be a one-off, maybe a two-off, compromises met, or opinions changed, and people move on. This isn't happening. It won't happen now, either.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Daffodil
Apprentice
# 13164
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Posted
Paul said quote:
I looked at the thread again and I still see the same passive-aggressive game being played. He was asked twice before the "3/4" comment to clarify. After that comment he remains vague forcing one to work out the answer or ask further. Because ISTM he wants the attention.
Sometimes my daughter is unable to answer a question, and seems unable to comprehend that I really have not a clue what she is on about. If she understands then I must also. I just wonder if there is something similar happening here.
Posts: 19 | Registered: Nov 2007
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
rolyn--
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Should have thought it a good subject for a Ship's poll.
Those who want a new Martin against those who want keep the the old one.
If you're serious, and not sarcastic, that seems rather mean.
Well, yes, but this is hell, so that's kinda the point, isn't it? And it does seem to sum up well the content of this thread.
I suppose more optimistically we could have a poll of one (Martin) re:
1. Is Martin capable of change?
2. Does Martin want to change?
Prior to asking the rest of us if we'd miss the old Martin if he did.
That doesn't really sound like much of a hell-call though. But it is something I've (more seriously) wondered about. We've done some speculating here about what's going on, I would love to hear from Martin if we're on track or waaaaay off base. But then that sorta begs question #1, doesn't it?
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
For the avoidance of any scintilla of doubt, polls critiquing shipmates - implicitly or otherwise - are not welcome in The Circus and will attract immediate hostly attention.
Doublethink (Shipmate suspiciously well informed about the opinions of circus hosts.)
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
rolyn--
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Should have thought it a good subject for a Ship's poll.
Those who want a new Martin against those who want keep the the old one.
If you're serious, and not sarcastic, that seems rather mean.
I usually am bordering on sarcasm GK. it wasn't a serious suggestion and am surprised it prompted serious debate.
Hell though this is, I had no intention of being mean to Martin, certainly not in the way of picking on someone who comes across as different .
He's obviously pissed some folk and those folk have had the opportunity to have a rant at him for it. Forcing someone to change for being eccentric is the mean-minded conformism TMM
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
For reasons too visceral to explain, I'd take about two or three Martys over one rolyn any day.
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Well, we'll wait and see. It's not impossible for somebody to change. Just very, very difficult--as I know from my own experience.
The vibe I got from the above exchange is that Martin was trying to be more conversational with cliffdweller than text medium allows. Meaning, if it was just she and he talking or even texting one- on - one, it would have read just fine.
But you ( generic you) just can't do that on a public thread. You really have to be aware that half a dozen people are "listening" in, and chiming in, and that the drift of the conversation may have taken things places that really screw with the translation of what might otherwise be a direct response. Trying to work a personal conversation around a group one is disrespectful to the others ( number one) and might only wind up confusing the person you're trying to engage( number two).
( on that note, in previous discussions if this nature I have wondered if Martin got into conversational hot water by simply not refreshing the page before he replied-- that is, he thought he was responding to the last post on a thread when there were actually six or seven in the interval. )
[ 31. May 2016, 03:21: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
rolyn--
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Should have thought it a good subject for a Ship's poll.
Those who want a new Martin against those who want keep the the old one.
If you're serious, and not sarcastic, that seems rather mean.
Well, yes, but this is hell, so that's kinda the point, isn't it? And it does seem to sum up well the content of this thread.
I suppose more optimistically we could have a poll of one (Martin) re:
1. Is Martin capable of change?
2. Does Martin want to change?
Prior to asking the rest of us if we'd miss the old Martin if he did.
That doesn't really sound like much of a hell-call though. But it is something I've (more seriously) wondered about. We've done some speculating here about what's going on, I would love to hear from Martin if we're on track or waaaaay off base. But then that sorta begs question #1, doesn't it?
Why does it have to be so black and white? A person can want someone to change the way they interact with them without them necessarily wanting that person to change their entire personality.
Like I said, when I read Martin's response to me, and I brushed past the flattery ( doesn't work on me, chum)* and the self- abuse (extreme self- degredation being the mirror image of megalomania) I saw a glimpse of someone funny and sassy and introspective. Love to see more of it.
Put another way-- maybe you have to put on the Oz face to entertain some folk, Martin, but I prefer the man behind the curtain. My uneducated suspicion is that the curtain provides some sort of shelter. I'm happy to leave things at, " You don't need that with me."
* OK, I'll admit the Brené Brown comparison turned my head a little...
[ 31. May 2016, 03:42: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Paul.:
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Should have thought it a good subject for a Ship's poll.
Those who want a new Martin against those who want keep the the old one.
I'll go for the old old one if we have a choice. As someone said above, the Martin who believed in "God-the-Killer" seemed much nicer.
Hmmm...I think he's been much happier, over all (IMHO), since shifting his theology, though he may have had a rough ride. Having done my own counterpart, I can empathize.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
cliffdweller--
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
rolyn--
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Should have thought it a good subject for a Ship's poll.
Those who want a new Martin against those who want keep the the old one.
If you're serious, and not sarcastic, that seems rather mean.
Well, yes, but this is hell, so that's kinda the point, isn't it? And it does seem to sum up well the content of this thread.
I suppose more optimistically we could have a poll of one (Martin) re:
1. Is Martin capable of change?
2. Does Martin want to change?
Prior to asking the rest of us if we'd miss the old Martin if he did.
That doesn't really sound like much of a hell-call though. But it is something I've (more seriously) wondered about. We've done some speculating here about what's going on, I would love to hear from Martin if we're on track or waaaaay off base. But then that sorta begs question #1, doesn't it?
Re meanness being the point of Hell:
It's for containing arguments, and venting. No one is *required* to be mean. Much of this thread seems like a slow-moving feeding frenzy. Like the kind of human herd behavior that really *hurts and damages people*--shunning someone, writing insults and lies in a slam book at a slumber party, not letting someone have a seat on the school bus or in the cafeteria, tormenting the person who doesn't fit. Not letting Rudolph join the reindeer games.
The Ship avoids "Like" and "Dislike" buttons for a reason.
Re what's going on with Martin:
Personally, I think that only matters as far as it affects Martin. Mystic, poet, not neurotypical, health problems, whatever. Maybe he simply experiences the world differently than the average person.
But he has given some clues, like on pg. 3 of this thread:
quote:
Whew! To the above. What follows is in response to mdijon on the Has God Failed Again thread.
Er, yes, sorry, you would (not have known what the Hell I was on about). Bugger. Believe it or not I'm beginning to have a tad of self doubt. * I read about absent mindedness again this week. As I've been characterized with that since childhood. At that * point I was thinking of this Cigarettes After Sex - Nothing's Gonna Hurt You Baby. The image more than the song.
And then Evanescence sang My Immortal in Dare Devil. That and Tequila, Gin, Lemon and Lemonade. On top of Pinot Noir. More excellent Evanescence. Overload. My ex. All of that.
The doubt is in the ... gaps. Distraction. Intrusive thoughts. Even good ones. Stendhals's. I'm overwhelmed by flowers. I mean OVERWHELMED. I love it. Them. It.
But it is nuts.
It's a LOUSY recipe. Even though recently I've become more reconciled to it all. It's a lousy recipe for making any point as you and mr cheesy in particular, both have identified.
And then the girl DIES. Bugger me. That OTT twaddle has me ... in tears.
I explained away missing, completely missing, for 15 hours until it was mentioned, a vital incoming email in a tight set of five, last week, that come in every night at 19:00 and failing to respond to it, as a diabetic blip. Because that's the kind of story they need. Plus a SOLUTION. Of course.
The truth is I haven't the faintest idea. And that sums up THIS.
Chaos. And me trying to use it every which way. To make points. To conflict.
And it's NOT working. For us. For you, mdijon, and mr cheesy and mousethief and others I piss off.
So, sorry, I think I've been looking in to the pit for too long and not realising it.
Gotta stop. Gotta stop THIS. Which, believe it or not, I AM trying to make a point withal. A point of acknowledgement and full, open, honest reaction.
Er, this feels quite like a real slice of me. Sod me. I better put this in Hell.
Cup of tea I think.
{Mostly quoting.}Absent mindedness, overload, gaps, intrusive thoughts, missing something important (covered up as a "diabetic blip"), his own not understanding what's going on, chaos that he tries to channel and put to good use in his posts, looking into the pit.
Whether that's something he needs to address in his personal life, I don't know. If he's concerned, I hope he speaks with a doctor. I wish him well.
As to his posts:
I like them, as do many other people. He's on my short list of "Read Their Posts Immediately!" Shipmates. If I'm reading a thread and see that he's posted, I happily go straight to his post. There's poetry, mysticism, winking wit, and my brain gets a good workout. If he were made to change, shut up, or leave, my experience of the Ship would be much poorer--as other people have said.
How many more Shipmates who are "different" is the Ship going to torment? It's becoming a habit. And it shames the Ship.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Paul.
Shipmate
# 37
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Posted
I just want to make one thing absolutely clear and then I'll probably leave this thread. I have no problem with the way Martin expresses himself. It's not that he's 'different' or 'eccentric' that gives me any pause, it's the way he treats people.
Posts: 3689 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2004
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
How many more Shipmates who are "different" is the Ship going to torment? It's becoming a habit. And it shames the Ship.
It's 'coz I'm black innit. Why can't you just get on and deal with it?
Well of course it isn't you just disagree. Likewise people getting annoyed with Martin here aren't getting annoyed because he is "different". It's because they asked a question for clarification and he laughed at them, or posted something else deliberately obscure. Or because he posted some self-righteous schtick about pacifism and wouldn't engage with their views except to keep re-iterating it.
Characterizing that as bigotry directed against those who are different is not helpful.
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
GK,
It isn't because he is different. It is because he can communicate clearly, but chooses not to do so. It is because he appears to choose obfuscation to hide intent.
His presentation is entirely choice.
Edited to add: I don't think it is torture in any way, shape or form. It is genuine, if somewhat self-imposed and futile, frustration.
[ 31. May 2016, 11:32: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Fineline
Shipmate
# 12143
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
It isn't because he is different. It is because he can communicate clearly, but chooses not to do so. It is because he appears to choose obfuscation to hide intent.
His presentation is entirely choice.
Do you really know that for certain? A person may communicate differently in different situations, at different times - that doesn't automatically mean that when they are communicating in a way that you find annoying, they are doing it deliberately to spite you.
Posts: 2375 | From: England | Registered: Dec 2006
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Fineline
Shipmate
# 12143
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
I'm referring to the stuff about bursting into tears and O what a broken wretch he is that flares up periodically in his posts. Pure melodrama. Do you really prefer someone who behaves like that, or someone who is quietly trying to get a handle on it?
I'm not sure whether that is a rhetorical question, or a literal question - it's certainly a very leading question, using language that makes it clear what you prefer. Personally, I prefer someone to be real, in whatever form that may take. I am very aware that in British upper middle class society, expressing one's emotions in what is seen as an extravagant way is frowned upon, seen as melodramatic, and there is the attitude that one should really 'get a handle' on their emotions, and present with a stiff upper lip.
I'm also aware that not everyone is able to 'get a handle' on their emotions, and many would love to be able to do this, but can't. I am equally aware that many people have difficulty expressing their emotions, and can't always do it in the subtle ways that some would prefer, and so they may come across melodramatic, or seem to be using cliches.
I am aware too that some people do express emotions in a manipulative way. I have never got that impression with Martin. I think you guys put him in an impossible situation. You keep demanding he is more real with you, that he gives more of himself, and then when he does express some emotion, show himself vulnerable, you sneer at him for being mawkish and melodramatic.
Posts: 2375 | From: England | Registered: Dec 2006
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Fineline:
But everyone has different things that they find turn-offs. I find posts that seem patronising or snobby a turn-off, for instance.
Good for you. And just like me with my dislike of obfuscatory wank, you're perfectly free to call to Hell anyone posting thusly in Purg, Eccles, Keryg or wherever. Go nuts. Cut loose. Tell 'em what you really think.
quote:
I genuinely find it strange that he is given warnings about his way of communicating.
I can't recall that ever happening. What I can recall is him being warned for hiding personal attacks behind his usual veil of incomprehensibility - and that is a very different thing indeed.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Golden Key, I agree with your previous post but not the last one. Hell is for situations where the OP has gotten sufficiently annoyed that "scroll on by" just doesn't cut it anymore. If we didn't have Hell as a safety valve, we'd end up with the not-so-hidden conflict smearing itself across all the other boards in the form of sniping and not-so-covert hostility. I'd much rather have it out in the open where it can be dealt with. If the complaint is just, hopefully the named individual will learn from it. And if it's NOT just, people like yourself can come and kick the rest of us up the arse.
Yep, LC gets it.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
For reasons too visceral to explain, I'd take about two or three Martys over one rolyn any day.
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Well, we'll wait and see. It's not impossible for somebody to change. Just very, very difficult--as I know from my own experience.
The vibe I got from the above exchange is that Martin was trying to be more conversational with cliffdweller than text medium allows. Meaning, if it was just she and he talking or even texting one- on - one, it would have read just fine.
fwiw, I found that particular exchange as frustratingly obtuse and unresponsive as everyone else did. Whether that's intentional or not, who knows? It could be that Martin is thinking 5 steps ahead of me and doesn't realize I haven't caught up to make the connections he's seeing. That may be a source of pride for him or something unintentional he's unaware of.
We really don't know.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
cliffdweller--
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
]Well, yes, but this is hell, so that's kinda the point, isn't it? And it does seem to sum up well the content of this thread.
Re meanness being the point of Hell:
It's for containing arguments, and venting. No one is *required* to be mean. Much of this thread seems like a slow-moving feeding frenzy. Like the kind of human herd behavior that really *hurts and damages people*--shunning someone, writing insults and lies in a slam book at a slumber party, not letting someone have a seat on the school bus or in the cafeteria, tormenting the person who doesn't fit. Not letting Rudolph join the reindeer games.
The Ship avoids "Like" and "Dislike" buttons for a reason.
...How many more Shipmates who are "different" is the Ship going to torment? It's becoming a habit. And it shames the Ship.
Thank you for that, Golden Key. An important reminder and rebuke to my tendency to get all in my head and join the crowd and forget about what's really at stake here. I'll try to keep that in mind in the future. Martin, I'm not really sure where you are in this, but I apologize for piling on.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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