|
Source: (consider it)
|
Thread: Videos and images of worship, redux
|
leo
Shipmate
# 1458
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
There was an Episcopal church in northern Virginia which had some of the most dazzling thurifer action I have ever seen. We were attending an investure. That kid made the censer whirl around and around his head, over the heads of the open-mouthed congregation. He also did figure eights and loop de loop.
This was in the days before YouTube video, but I hope the lore has been handed down and that images exist somewhere.
showing off - gives anglo catholics a bad name
thurifers should be smelt and not seen
--------------------
My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
Several years ago there was a video that went viral of a Gospel procession at an Easter Vigil. The priest (or deacon) twirled while carrying the Gospel book to the ambo, the acolytes danced with their torches, etc. It was tacky but mesmerizing. When Microsoft ate my favorites, I lost it. Googling and searching Youtube have not found it. Does anyone know where it is?
The device I'm currently using doesn't support the plug-in required to view the video so I can't verify but I'm fairly sure that this is the one you mean.
I actually came here to post this video of the ceremonies from feast of the Exaltation of the Holy Cross. The service is from the cathedral of St Irenaus, part of the Orthodox Church of France.
--------------------
If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
|
Posted
Neither a video nor an image, but a recording of our All Souls Mass : Nov 3 2014
--------------------
"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
Posts: 2512 | From: Oakland, CA | Registered: Feb 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
There was an Episcopal church in northern Virginia which had some of the most dazzling thurifer action I have ever seen. We were attending an investure. That kid made the censer whirl around and around his head, over the heads of the open-mouthed congregation. He also did figure eights and loop de loop.
This was in the days before YouTube video, but I hope the lore has been handed down and that images exist somewhere.
figure 8s are illegal in some places as a result of the risks of broken chains and flying coals ...
--------------------
shameless self promotion - because I think it's worth it
and mayhap this too: http://broken-moments.blogspot.co.nz/
Posts: 18917 | From: "Central" is all they call it | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
seasick
...over the edge
# 48
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
This has recently been released - just some highlights:
Carol Concert
--------------------
We believe there is, and always was, in every Christian Church, ... an outward priesthood, ordained by Jesus Christ, and an outward sacrifice offered therein. - John Wesley
Posts: 5769 | From: A world of my own | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
|
Posted
The BBC broadcast Carols from Kings from 1954 this evening. The link is available on iPlayer for 29 days but I suspect it's not available outside the UK. It's b/w and supposed to have been digitally remastered, which make one wonder what the original condition was after 60 years.
Apart from the limitations of both sound and television technology in 1954, other things to note are,
- It may just be me, but I felt they sang everything just ever so slightly slower 60 years ago.
- There is something incredibly 1950s but it's difficult to say exactly what, about the intonation of the chanted collect and other prayers at the end.
- The blessing at the end is given the old-fashioned way with the right hand raised and stationary. Except among the strictest evangelicals it's usually given with a sign of the cross these days.
- The interior shows what King's College Chapel was like inside before the vaulting was cleaned and the east end completely altered to display the Rubens in the 1960s.
I'd be interested in any other comments.
--------------------
Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
|
Posted
Other comments. So all males, however young, had to use Brylcream in 1954.
Watching it on the telly in my childhood, the solo at the start was sung at the back of the nave, rather than as here: a chorister at the front of the procession, nearly at the screen, with a choirmaster beside him keeping time. (You can't trust these young lads, yer know.)
But what a relief, a service starting in total silence rather than vacuous chat (as it still does).
God bless us all, as Tiny Tim says.
--------------------
Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Offeiriad
Ship's Arboriculturalist
# 14031
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
There was an Episcopal church in northern Virginia which had some of the most dazzling thurifer action I have ever seen. We were attending an investure. That kid made the censer whirl around and around his head, over the heads of the open-mouthed congregation. He also did figure eights and loop de loop.
This was in the days before YouTube video, but I hope the lore has been handed down and that images exist somewhere.
A 360 degree loop with a thurible is being shown on UK TV news today. The feat (or folly?) was recorded at the Christmas Day Mass in Canterbury Cathedral, presumably as an alternative entertainment instead of the Archbishop's sermon, which was cancelled due to him having a cold.
Posts: 1426 | From: La France profonde | Registered: Aug 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
leo
Shipmate
# 1458
|
Posted
Yes - it seemed very slow.
I preferred the old altar with its 4 candles.
The intonation of the collect and blessing isn't that different from the way it is still done in some places, though kings have dumbed it down for some years now and said the collect - and the one for Xmas Eve, not the day itself.
It looked as if the dean's cope was purple, for Advent, rather than white for Xmas.
Crucifer without taperers back then.
Gospel read by a laymen (or a clergyman not in a cope and no gospel procession.)
The hair styles were awful back in those days.
Unobtrusive conducting by Boris Ord, not the passionate flinging and flailing of arms one sees often today, even in procession.
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
... Gospel read by a laymen (or a clergyman not in a cope and no gospel procession.) ...
Is a reading from a gospel technically a gospel rather than a New Testament reading if it's not in a eucharistic service?
--------------------
Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
|
Posted
Readings never come from the gospel in the RC office, so the question doesn't arise.
--------------------
Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
Readings never come from the gospel in the RC office, so the question doesn't arise.
???????
King's College Chapel is CofE and depending on how one dates these things, has been since 1529 or 1558. So, although that's an interesting titbit that I'd never heard before, it doesn't have much bearing on the point here.
One doesn't treat the New Testament reading in Morning or Evening Prayer differently depending on whether it is from one of the four gospels or not. Although I suspect Leo might have been thinking specifically of the In Principe which usually comes last in a carol service, by that point there will have been several gospel readings from St Luke and St Matthew. They are either all 'the gospel' in the liturgical sense or in this context that's a wrong categorisation. Although I suspect Leo knows a lot more about these things than I do, in this case, I think it would be a categorisation error.
--------------------
Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
|
Posted
There does seem to be a practice of highlighting the final Gospel at a Carol Service (often the Johannine Prologue) with lights, Alleluias, and in our case, incense as well. All of which does provide a suitable climax to the service (and gave me the chance to re-introduce a modest amount of Holy Smoke at a neighbouring parish's Carols by Candlelight)..... ![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
Ian J.
--------------------
Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Episcoterian
Shipmate
# 13185
|
Posted
I'm not sure if requests are allowed, please forgive me and disregard if not.
It's about on-demand church service videos.
I currently watch the services from Trinity Wall Street and Brick Presbyterian, NYC; St. Andrew & St. Paul, Montreal and the Presbyterian Cathedral, São Paulo. I used to watch Washington National Cathedral's until Dean Samuel Lloyd III left.
While I'll keep getting my high church fix from Trinity, I'd really enjoy seeing some lower, by-the-book, Evangelical (not Charismatic) Anglican worship for comparison. Especially if the preaching is good. Any hints?
Also, are on-demand service videos an American thing? Aren't there any CofE/CofI/SEC/Kirk shacks doing it?
--------------------
"We cannot let individualism make corporate worship impossible!" (iMonk)
I'm on Facebook too!
Posts: 286 | From: Franca, SP, Brazil | Registered: Nov 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
|
Posted
*bumping prior to Board clearance*
--------------------
Flinging wide the gates...
Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
|
Posted
I came across this clip from Farnborough Abbey of the first vespers in the Benedictine form for the third Sunday of Advent.
My frivolous question is: There are two men in dalmatics supporting the becoped abbot. One of the dalmatics has a bar of embroidery on the chest and the other doesn't. One of them wears a black biretta and the other one a white biretta. Why the difference? Is one a monk and the other not?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxpZW4qx5Uw
--------------------
Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
I came across this clip from Farnborough Abbey of the first vespers in the Benedictine form for the third Sunday of Advent.
My frivolous question is: There are two men in dalmatics supporting the becoped abbot. One of the dalmatics has a bar of embroidery on the chest and the other doesn't. One of them wears a black biretta and the other one a white biretta. Why the difference? Is one a monk and the other not?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxpZW4qx5Uw
Not sure about the biretta question (*deletes anti-biretta tirade*) but my guess is that the embroidered dalmatic is for a deacon and the plain one is a subdeacon's tunicle.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
|
Posted
That's what I wondered, which is why I didn't call them deacons, but I thought the RCC abolished subdeacons some 50 years ago.
Not that the man has much to do but hold up the end of the cope.
I was a bit surprised at a Benedictine Abbey being so Brompton Oratory (although the ceremonial there is far more complicated for Vespers.)
--------------------
Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Ceremoniar
Shipmate
# 13596
|
Posted
The RCC did abolish the subdiaconate in 1972, but at Solemn Masses in the Extraordinary Form, using the 1962 Roman Missal, a cleric still acts as subdeacon. More often than not, the cleric (before and after Vatican II) is not actually a subdeacon, but is a priest acting as a subdeacon of the Mass. The same goes for the deacon of the Mass. The cleric in question here is a Norbertine Father, web page, and this order wears a white habit, and biretta, on the occasions when they might be used.
Also, the orders whose charism is to celebrate only the 1962 missal, such as the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter, and the Institute of Christ the King, Sovereign Priest, have permission to continue the minor orders and subdiaconate. As a result, they have ordination ceremonies where a bishop ordains them to each of these orders.
[ 30. July 2015, 19:26: Message edited by: Ceremoniar ]
Posts: 1240 | From: U.S. | Registered: Apr 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
|
Posted
Does use of the Benedictine office count as part of the extraordinary rite?
Was there a generally accepted Vat II revision it?
PS The OSB doesn't have permission to use the 1962 missal, does it? Or are Benedictine abbeys liturgically autonomous?? So it looks like someone dressing up as a subdeacon. Very high church C of E.
[ 31. July 2015, 07:38: Message edited by: venbede ]
--------------------
Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Forthview
Shipmate
# 12376
|
Posted
any priest of the Roman rite has the permission to use the 1962 Missal,if his parishioners wish it.
Posts: 3444 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
Does use of the Benedictine office count as part of the extraordinary rite? Was there a generally accepted Vat II revision it?
Yes. The successor to the Breviarium Monasticum is the Thesaurus Liturgiae Horarum Monasticae of 1977. It's a "treasury" or directory of materials according to which a Benedictine monastery may construct its own Office. There are certain basic requirements as to number of offices, elements required in each office, psalm distribution schemas, minimum of 75 psalms per week, etc., but lots of options.
The TLHM is available (all in Latin) online here.
Posts: 3823 | Registered: May 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
|
Posted
Was Farnborough using the old one though? 4 psalms, reading, office hymn, Magnificat.
I was expecting to recognise the tune to the office hymn, which I would have thought was Creator Alma Sidera (or as we schismatics call it Creator of the stars of night). Was it a different hymn or tune?
--------------------
Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
|
Posted
Forgive my illiteracy in Latin. Conditor alme siderum, not what I said above.
I've just looked it up in my Solesmes Antiphonale and the tune is the same as in dear old English Hymnal.
--------------------
Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
|
Posted
From Farnborough Abbey's website:
" For the Mass, both the Ordinary and Extraordinary forms of the Roman Rite are employed. The community has an indult from the Holy See which regulates certain monastic usages of the 1962 missal.
The liturgy is, as the Second Vatican Council reminds us, the ‘source and summit’ of the Christian life."
So they have permission for subdeacons presumably, which would explain the tunicle.
--------------------
Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
|
Posted
What's an indult please?
The automatic spellchecker tried to convert it to insult, by the way.
--------------------
Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
What's an indult please?
A favor granted by the Apostolic See (the Pope or a congregation) that is an exception to the law.
--------------------
Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
Posts: 8164 | From: Notre Dame, IN | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Forthview
Shipmate
# 12376
|
Posted
connected with 'Indulgence' (in whatever way you like)
Posts: 3444 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
|
Posted
On the Saturday after Easter, my community celebrates priestly ordinations. All of the media is now up for this year's, where you can see two of my younger brothers join us around the altar in their new ministry, and see their homilies from their first Masses the next day.
--------------------
Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
Posts: 8164 | From: Notre Dame, IN | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Doone
Shipmate
# 18470
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Forthview:
connected with 'Indulgence' (in whatever way you like)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posts: 2208 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2015
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oblatus:
Requiem for Mother Angelica at Our Lady of the Atonement, San Antonio, Texas.
I would lose the bells on the thurible for a requiem. Tell the crucifer not to bow (even just the head) when carrying the cross. Should be no incense until the offertory, and I'm not sure the celebrant should bless it.
Posts: 3823 | Registered: May 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
|
Posted
Did you notice that this is an Anglican Use parish? I know pretty much nothing about the details of their liturgy, so if you've actually looked into all of these things, I'll take your word for it. All of the things you mention would be quite proper in the Ordinary Form. (I agree about the bells on thurible, but that's a matter of taste).
--------------------
Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
Posts: 8164 | From: Notre Dame, IN | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
georgiaboy
Shipmate
# 11294
|
Posted
Anglican Use parishes have to some extent (and rather against the rules) retained their Anglican attitudes of a) 'That's the way we've always done it.', b) 'That's the way they do it at SMtV/Bourne St/ASMS (take your pick)', c) 'I like it that way,' d) the bishop won't know or doesn't care.'
This is so culturally ingrained in the Anglo-Catholic ethos that walking through the Tiber isn't likely to erase it. At least IMNSHO.
While I didn't watch the entire video, what I saw seemed to be a rather 'super-market' selection of liturgical usages, not all of it very well done.
YMMV, of course.
--------------------
You can't retire from a calling.
Posts: 1675 | From: saint meinrad, IN | Registered: Apr 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by georgiaboy:
Anglican Use parishes have to some extent (and rather against the rules) retained their Anglican attitudes of a) 'That's the way we've always done it.', b) 'That's the way they do it at SMtV/Bourne St/ASMS (take your pick)', c) 'I like it that way,' d) the bishop won't know or doesn't care.'
This is so culturally ingrained in the Anglo-Catholic ethos that walking through the Tiber isn't likely to erase it. At least IMNSHO.
Patrimony?
![[Biased]](wink.gif)
--------------------
If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Scrumpmeister:
quote:
Originally posted by georgiaboy:
Anglican Use parishes have to some extent (and rather against the rules) retained their Anglican attitudes of a) 'That's the way we've always done it.', b) 'That's the way they do it at SMtV/Bourne St/ASMS (take your pick)', c) 'I like it that way,' d) the bishop won't know or doesn't care.'
This is so culturally ingrained in the Anglo-Catholic ethos that walking through the Tiber isn't likely to erase it. At least IMNSHO.
Patrimony?
Especially as regards [d] perhaps. Or rather,' s*d the bishop, he's a protestant/liberal/vatican 2 supporter/Pope Francis.'
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adam.:
Did you notice that this is an Anglican Use parish? I know pretty much nothing about the details of their liturgy, so if you've actually looked into all of these things, I'll take your word for it. All of the things you mention would be quite proper in the Ordinary Form. (I agree about the bells on thurible, but that's a matter of taste).
Yes...It may be a case of the bishop having said, "You have this lovely quaint traditional liturgy; great. Now here's a GIRM, so make whatever changes you need to conform to it for my next visit." Perhaps this is the result.
Posts: 3823 | Registered: May 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
|
Posted
The Salve Regina at the Orthodox church of Our Lady & St Thiebault, Gorze.
--------------------
If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
|
Posted
Also, here is a beautiful setting of the Coptic text of the Trisagion, composed by Bishop Gregory of Arles.
It is sung in Greek but the English text is:
quote:
Holy God, holy Mighty, holy Immortal, born of the Virgin, have mercy on us.
Holy God, holy Mighty, holy Immortal, crucified for us, have mercy on us.
Holy God, holy Mighty, holy Immortal, Who rose from the dead and ascended into the heavens, have mercy on us.
Glory to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, now and ever and to the ages of ages. Amen.
O Holy Trinity, have mercy on us!
[ 10. October 2016, 18:29: Message edited by: The Scrumpmeister ]
--------------------
If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
|
Posted
An Evensong at which I was honored to officiate can be seen here. It's not bad.
--------------------
"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
Posts: 2512 | From: Oakland, CA | Registered: Feb 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
|
Posted
Pity the organ console blocks the altar and the altar candles are unlit as far as I can see.
--------------------
Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
|
Posted
They were unlit. The house acolyte was to have lit them before the service, and by the time I realized it, the Magnificat was already in full swing with no time to correct the omission.
Ah well, it's still an altar, so it gets censed.
--------------------
"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
Posts: 2512 | From: Oakland, CA | Registered: Feb 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
|
Posted
You've a nice movement with a thurible, Fr W.
--------------------
Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
|
Posted
You are too kind. Thank you!
--------------------
"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
Posts: 2512 | From: Oakland, CA | Registered: Feb 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
|
Posted
Next time I'll bring my own support staff.
--------------------
"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
Posts: 2512 | From: Oakland, CA | Registered: Feb 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Printer-friendly view
