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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Purgatory: St Paul's To Close
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pete173
Shipmate
# 4622
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Posted
Aumbry is our honorary Daily Mail editorialiser. The content serves to remind us of what we're up against.
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Pete
Posts: 1653 | From: Kilburn, London NW6 | Registered: Jun 2003
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
It makes me think some people are more worried about people protesting then about whether what they are protesting about has some validity.
Actually, I think you'll find that once the protesters actually managed to rustle up something to protest about I agreed with many of their points.
quote:
Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
And this is wrong why?
If you haven't got anything to protest about, why bother protesting at all? Seriously, I just don't get it.
And if you have got something to protest about, why not just bloody well say what it is from the start?
quote:
Because it doesn't fit into modern business practice?
Because it doesn't make any bloody sense!
quote:
Good enough for the church but not for a protest movement?
A protest movement, by its very nature, needs something to actually protest. The clue is in the name.
A protest movement without any demands is like a strike without any grievance. For one thing, how the hell would it know when to stop?
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
"Not making sense!" comes from a judgement based on something. Its a standard practice now to judge effectiveness based on planning and having goals. And that mindset comes to us through business, probably from the armed forces, but definately mostly to us through business.
So, yes you are applying standard business practice to a critique of the Occupy movement, even if you are not aware of what you are doing.
Occupy is using a different paradigm, deliberately. I'm sure others on here can tell us where that paradigm has its genesis. But, it is not the one you use because they have chosen deliberately not to use that.
That and as I've said, its a tad hypocritical to say business practice should stay out of the church, but should be applied to a secular moral movement questioning business.
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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
If you're going to go to the length of spontaneously setting up camp outside a national landmark, then surely there must be some reason or motivation causing you to do so. Whatever "paradigm" you're using.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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aumbry
Shipmate
# 436
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alogon:
quote:
Originally posted by aumbry:
An irony that the first scalp of the middle-class anti-capitalists should be a mockney old public schoolboy former trot now an unlikely cleric.
Doubtless he will find a new career at the BBC and no doubt much better paid too.
You sound mighty pissed off that anyone born rich enough to know better should ever decide to keep the poor in mind. What treason!
Not at all, the poor are the biggest victims of the middle class lefties.
But his persona seems to me a confection perhaps to give the clearly misleading view that he is a man of the people.
Posts: 3869 | From: Quedlinburg | Registered: Jun 2001
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
quote:
originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
"Not making sense!" comes from a judgement based on something. Its a standard practice now to judge effectiveness based on planning and having goals. And that mindset comes to us through business, probably from the armed forces, but definately mostly to us through business.
So, yes you are applying standard business practice to a critique of the Occupy movement, even if you are not aware of what you are doing.
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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aumbry
Shipmate
# 436
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by pete173:
Aumbry is our honorary Daily Mail editorialiser. The content serves to remind us of what we're up against.
We do not need to read the Daily Mail to know that your brave stand for the masses was to pour bile on Prince William and Kate Middleton before their wedding.
Such bravery, such a blow against the establishment!
Posts: 3869 | From: Quedlinburg | Registered: Jun 2001
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justlooking
Shipmate
# 12079
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
If you're going to go to the length of spontaneously setting up camp outside a national landmark, then surely there must be some reason or motivation causing you to do so. Whatever "paradigm" you're using.
Assorted reasons and motivations supplied here
Posts: 2319 | From: thither and yon | Registered: Nov 2006
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by aumbry:
But his persona seems to me a confection perhaps to give the clearly misleading view that he is a man of the people.
Evidence? He has worked in working-class parishes: even Putney is not uniformly upper-middle-class. You'd be the first to pour scorn on him if he went on about how he and his brothers had to sleep six in a bed, and they were out scavenging for coal before school every morning.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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shamwari
Shipmate
# 15556
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Posted
From all that I can gather it seems like the protestors really want another way of doing politics. They refuse to come up with specific demands but talk insstead of "democratic assemblies and forums" with the aim of reaching consensus.
I have had experience of such since it is not a new idea.
I lived amongst the Shona people in Zimbabwe for 25 years. In rural areas it was the custom for the men to hold a "dare" ( whilst the women laboured in the fields!).
The dare was the assembly which was usually held under a big tree. The men sat around all day if necessary discussing the affairs of the village. And next day if necessary because only when a consensus was reached was any decision taken.
That was fine in a rural area where time mattered not and issues were not complex apart from the inter-personal ones.
Come the 20th Cent and the system, though laudable, simply didnt work.
Posts: 1914 | From: from the abyss of misunderstanding | Registered: Mar 2010
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aumbry
Shipmate
# 436
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
quote:
Originally posted by aumbry:
But his persona seems to me a confection perhaps to give the clearly misleading view that he is a man of the people.
Evidence? He has worked in working-class parishes: even Putney is not uniformly upper-middle-class. You'd be the first to pour scorn on him if he went on about how he and his brothers had to sleep six in a bed, and they were out scavenging for coal before school every morning.
Putney may not be uniformly upper middle class but I doubt whether the working class population could be such a powerful influence as to completely change the vicar's manner of elocution. But then perhaps he picked it up from his chums in the SWP - Peter Hitchens perhaps?
Posts: 3869 | From: Quedlinburg | Registered: Jun 2001
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aumbry
Shipmate
# 436
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by aumbry:
[qb]
You'd be the first to pour scorn on him if he went on about how he and his brothers had to sleep six in a bed, and they were out scavenging for coal before school every morning.
Yes - but only because it would be very unlikely to be true. As far as I recall Uppingham has gas central heating.
Posts: 3869 | From: Quedlinburg | Registered: Jun 2001
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
Oh, you're going on about his accent! Why should you assume it's phoney? Maybe he grew up with it and didn't let the public-school toffs mock it out of him. Anyway, even though Putney is fairly posh, you're more likely to hear a London (if not Bow Bells) accent there than in the City or many other parts.
You'd be the first to comment if I criticised Theresa May, who went to a comprehensive school, for talking like a toff. It's quite irrelevant.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Ethne Alba
Shipmate
# 5804
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Posted
Good grief there's a lot of cheap pot shots going on here. How about going out for a breather? Walk the dog? Or eat something?
There doesn't "need" to be anything at all from the protesters. We might "want" an intellectual and reasoned argument. But they don't.
They just want to sit there and go "It Is NOT Fair".
What part of that do (some) people not understand?
On the contrary, I think that lots of people in the UK understand perfectly what is going on.
Posts: 3126 | Registered: Apr 2004
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JonahMan
Shipmate
# 12126
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by shamwari:
The dare was the assembly which was usually held under a big tree. The men sat around all day if necessary discussing the affairs of the village. And next day if necessary because only when a consensus was reached was any decision taken.
That was fine in a rural area where time mattered not and issues were not complex apart from the inter-personal ones.
Come the 20th Cent and the system, though laudable, simply didnt work.
And the modern, western methods are working? Not to say that a direct transplant of something appropriate for a low population rural society would work, but perhaps there are some lessons to be learned from a slower, more concensual way of doing things.
[ 28. October 2011, 17:21: Message edited by: JonahMan ]
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Thank God for the aged
And old age itself, and illness and the grave
For when you're old, or ill and particularly in the coffin
It's no trouble to behave
Posts: 914 | From: Planet Zog | Registered: Dec 2006
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by JonahMan:
perhaps there are some lessons to be learned from a slower, more concensual way of doing things.
When whole banks succeed or fail on decisions made in nano seconds by traders and computers?
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Ethne Alba
Shipmate
# 5804
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Posted
i have no problems with bankers making their nano second decisions...we appear to be where we are with that
it is the quite deliberate and well thought out decision to act in a manner that is w.r.o.n.g. that i and many other have problems with
anhyone with even half a working brain knows that silly salaries... in this present financial situation....is deeply offensive
Posts: 3126 | Registered: Apr 2004
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Garden Hermit:
I have transferred my accounts from the Co-op because they give lots of their profits to left wing charities and the Labour Party.
So who did you think they were then?
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by crynwrcymraeg:
Dr Fraser's resignation keeps the rumour of G-d alive for me. I could cry.
So much that St Paul's and the bishop have said and done is, to me, literally God-less
Jesus of the gospels and the Gospel is always standing with the poor, the marginalised and the hurting.
Having now read the protesters' demands, I wouldn't have said that the residents of the City of London were the "poor, the marginalised and the hurting" but that's an interesting viewpoint.
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Garden Hermit:
I have transferred my accounts from the Co-op because they give lots of their profits to left wing charities and the Labour Party.
Replied to by Ken
So who did you think they were then?
Yebbut, they're a co-operative. Shouldn't they be either distributing any profits to their account holders, or reducing interest or bank charges?
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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JonahMan
Shipmate
# 12126
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Posted
Some decisions need to be taken quickly. Others are better done more reflectively. To use an analogy, a batsman in cricket has a fraction of a second to decide how (or whether) to hit the ball. But to change the laws of cricket requires concensus, deliberation and thought about consequences.
It may be that society as a whole would be better off if these nanosecond financial decisions were banned or reduced in scope, for example, or if the incentives for banks to take them were more proportionate. Just because the technology exists for finance to work in this way doesn't mean it should automatically happen. It is possible to regulate things so that society as a whole benefits. To use an another analogy, cars can easily be driven at 100mph or more, yet we have speed limits, recognising that there are other issues than the limits of our technology.
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Thank God for the aged
And old age itself, and illness and the grave
For when you're old, or ill and particularly in the coffin
It's no trouble to behave
Posts: 914 | From: Planet Zog | Registered: Dec 2006
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dyfrig
Blue Scarfed Menace
# 15
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Posted
It does not surprise me that the Occupy movement has taken time to work out what it's demands are, because that's what human beings are like. Most people don't know what they want; the current feeling (and it mostly is a feeling) that there is something profoundly wrong with the system is not to be derided because it cannot be articulated. Capitalism didn't arise out of a plan; it sort of happened and people aren't entirely sure why. To insist that opponents of your opinions have to be more articulate and coherent than you yourself can manage is a little disingenuous.
It is a good thing that +Eyebrows has invited the protesters in for conversation; it is fatuous in the extreme for him to insist that they should then go away. I was reading recently of how the Taize community responded to the people turning up0 in the 60s; they weren't coherent, they weren't articulate, but they were welcomed and listened to. Ideas take years, generations to come into focus. The Incarnation wasn't noticed until people started talking about it thirty or forty years later.
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"He was wrong in the long run, but then, who isn't?" - Tony Judt
Posts: 6917 | From: pob dydd Iau, am hanner dydd | Registered: Apr 2001
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
So...Occupy is going to camp out at St. Paul's for generations? ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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dyfrig
Blue Scarfed Menace
# 15
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Posted
I know you probably know I didn't say that, but in case you didn't, consider there to be a paragraph break before the sentence where "generations" appears.
[ 29. October 2011, 17:27: Message edited by: dyfrig ]
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"He was wrong in the long run, but then, who isn't?" - Tony Judt
Posts: 6917 | From: pob dydd Iau, am hanner dydd | Registered: Apr 2001
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Rosa Winkel
Saint Anger round my neck
# 11424
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by dyfrig:
I was reading recently of how the Taize community responded to the people turning up0 in the 60s; they weren't coherent, they weren't articulate, but they were welcomed and listened to.
A very good point. I remember Br. Roger writing of how he heard so much anger in what they were saying, and that he did indeed (if I recall correctly) speak to them of things like love and humility.
He didn't get accuse them of all sorts and call the police in at any rate.
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The Disability and Jesus "Locked out for Lent" project
Posts: 3271 | From: Wrocław | Registered: May 2006
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
So...Occupy is going to camp out at St. Paul's for generations?
I would think God can handle the crowds.
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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
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hatless
Shipmate
# 3365
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by dyfrig:
Most people don't know what they want; the current feeling (and it mostly is a feeling) that there is something profoundly wrong with the system is not to be derided because it cannot be articulated.
I agree, and I'd add that this feeling, this mix of alienation and hope, is the mother to faith.
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My crazy theology in novel form
Posts: 4531 | From: Stinkers | Registered: Sep 2002
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
So...Occupy is going to camp out at St. Paul's for generations?
I would think God can handle the crowds.
I would hope the next generation could come up with something more productive to do than aimlessly camping outside a church.
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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hatless
Shipmate
# 3365
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
quote:
Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
So...Occupy is going to camp out at St. Paul's for generations?
I would think God can handle the crowds.
I would hope the next generation could come up with something more productive to do than aimlessly camping outside a church.
It seems they've successfully wound up quite a lot of people. It's a tiny, tiny demonstration, extremely polite and tidy, hardly liking to do anything as vulgar as make 'demands', utterly insignificant in terms of the political action we saw in the last century, but nonetheless many people are very unhappy about it.
I think it's fascinating, impressive and hugely encouraging.
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My crazy theology in novel form
Posts: 4531 | From: Stinkers | Registered: Sep 2002
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Pulsator Organorum Ineptus
Shipmate
# 2515
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Posted
It's not just that people don't know what they want.
Once they have decided what they want, they tend to behave in a way that is quite contrary to the desired outcome - to an astonishing degree.
Posts: 695 | From: Bronteland | Registered: Mar 2002
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
I would hope the next generation could come up with something more productive to do than aimlessly camping outside a church.
Some of them might have jobs. As the cuts bite yet more deeply, there will be a large number of them without. And camping outside a cathedral, aimlessly or not, seems a more productive thing to do than getting stoned out of their minds or beating up old ladies.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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hatless
Shipmate
# 3365
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pulsator Organorum Ineptus:
It's not just that people don't know what they want.
Once they have decided what they want, they tend to behave in a way that is quite contrary to the desired outcome - to an astonishing degree.
Do you really want to give such a huge vote of no confidence in people?
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My crazy theology in novel form
Posts: 4531 | From: Stinkers | Registered: Sep 2002
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
They've ticked people off because they are aimlessly camping out in front of a church that happens to be a tourist destination.
Other than that...
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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hatless
Shipmate
# 3365
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Posted
Aimlessness isn't a problem. I'm sitting aimlessly in a chair, wondering about going to bed but not finding the gumption to do so, and it's ticking no one off.
These demonstrators are felt as a very sharp irritant. I think it's because they are drawing attention to an immense problem that we are collectively trying not to think about. It's not their lack of demands, it's our collective lack of answers that is so hard to bear.
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My crazy theology in novel form
Posts: 4531 | From: Stinkers | Registered: Sep 2002
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Horseman Bree
Shipmate
# 5290
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Posted
Apparently they've ticked you off, enough that you have to spend a significant amount of time being rude about them.
What part of the "1% vs 99%" don't you understand?
The actual method for dealing with the problem is going to take quite a lot of discussion and time to work out.
The Reagan solution to the problem of a prosperous nation has taken 30 years to come to fruition, and one could add the years from Goldwater's nomination to that. It'll take at least a generation to organise a better plan.
In the short term, a tax on trading activity would slow down the rate at which nanosecond deals cause havoc - at least there would be some tax revenue from all that totally non-productive activity!
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It's Not That Simple
Posts: 5372 | From: more herring choker than bluenose | Registered: Dec 2003
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Horseman Bree
Shipmate
# 5290
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Posted
Sorry, my response was to Beeswax, not hatless.
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It's Not That Simple
Posts: 5372 | From: more herring choker than bluenose | Registered: Dec 2003
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Horseman Bree
Shipmate
# 5290
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Posted
And now, reading the Guardian while waiting for my ship responses to actually go through, I come across Plan B which has enough sense to be a possible starter.
Of course, George Osborne's Plan A is a rubbish attempt to impoverish everyone down to the level the US is aiming for, so just about anything would be an improvement!
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It's Not That Simple
Posts: 5372 | From: more herring choker than bluenose | Registered: Dec 2003
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
I don't think so.
The staff at St. Paul's want to make enough money to pay for the upkeep of the building. Tourists want to see the inside of St. Paul's. If I'd been saving my money for years to fly across the Atlantic to visit the UK and I really wanted to see St. Paul's, I would be annoyed if when I got there it was closed because I may never have the opportunity again. Perhaps, some of those who attend services at St. Pauls are likely annoyed the church is being shut down.
The 1%? I doubt the 1% care much about St. Paul's or what's happening there. If the 1% cared about St. Paul's, a Christian cathedral wouldn't be reduced to such a pathetic practice as charging admission.
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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Horseman Bree
Shipmate
# 5290
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Posted
So you are grimly determined to support the 1%'s desire to turn the uS into Guatemala.
Good thing that's clear.
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It's Not That Simple
Posts: 5372 | From: more herring choker than bluenose | Registered: Dec 2003
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
Wow...your comment was stupid on so many levels I don't even know where to begin.
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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Alwyn
Shipmate
# 4380
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by hatless:
[...] These demonstrators are felt as a very sharp irritant. I think it's because they are drawing attention to an immense problem that we are collectively trying not to think about. It's not their lack of demands, it's our collective lack of answers that is so hard to bear.
I find that very insightful (seriously - no sarcasm intended). In blaming the protestors for not coming up with a solution, maybe society is scapegoating them?
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Post hoc, ergo propter hoc
Posts: 849 | From: UK | Registered: Apr 2003
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
Radio 4's 'World this Weekend' at noon today is from St Paul's discussing all these issues - should be interesting.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
[ 30. October 2011, 12:34: Message edited by: Boogie ]
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
They've ticked people off because they are aimlessly camping out in front of a church that happens to be a tourist destination.
Aimlessly? Not at all. There are many targets to the protest.
And by the way they seem to have annoyed some right-wingers, they are obviously hitting at least some of them.
This is politics, not some mild-mannered bring-and-share in a playgroup. If conservatives and right-wingers liked what they were doing they would be doing it wrong. The point is not to persuade them, it is to defeat them. Or at least expose them.
It looks like some of the St Paul's clergy had a "Which side are you on?" moment, and came down on different sides.
For what its worth, what comment there was on the issue at church yesterday came down entirely on the side of the protestors & the clerics who resigned. I think we worked out which side we were on.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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ianjmatt
Shipmate
# 5683
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
They've ticked people off because they are aimlessly camping out in front of a church that happens to be a tourist destination.
Aimlessly? Not at all. There are many targets to the protest.
And by the way they seem to have annoyed some right-wingers, they are obviously hitting at least some of them.
This is politics, not some mild-mannered bring-and-share in a playgroup. If conservatives and right-wingers liked what they were doing they would be doing it wrong. The point is not to persuade them, it is to defeat them. Or at least expose them.
It looks like some of the St Paul's clergy had a "Which side are you on?" moment, and came down on different sides.
For what its worth, what comment there was on the issue at church yesterday came down entirely on the side of the protestors & the clerics who resigned. I think we worked out which side we were on.
Truth is, Jesus isn't on either side. He will rightly be calling everyone to greater generosity, grace, care and love. I think the protestors have a good point, but have no useful solutions that don't seem to involve spending other people's money. But Jesus calls me first to care for others, as he does everyone.
He would be found both camping with the protestors asking them challenging questions, and dining with the financiers and causing outrage with his true wisdom and challenge. That is all.
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You might want to visit my blog:
http://lostintheheartofsomewhere.blogspot.com
But maybe not
Posts: 676 | From: Shropshire | Registered: Mar 2004
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by hatless:
Aimlessness isn't a problem. I'm sitting aimlessly in a chair, wondering about going to bed but not finding the gumption to do so, and it's ticking no one off.
These demonstrators are felt as a very sharp irritant. I think it's because they are drawing attention to an immense problem that we are collectively trying not to think about. It's not their lack of demands, it's our collective lack of answers that is so hard to bear.
Well, in the US, the majority of the population support them from the polls that I've seen. It isn't the population at large that wants to avoid these questions, it is the political and economic elites who want to pretend that everything is fine because they are doing so well at the rest of the population's expense. The real danger to these slimeballs at the top is that a political movement might gel out of these protests that would topple their wildly undeserved privilege, and they know it. The cops are gassing the kids in Oakland because they may actually have an effect, not because they are "aimless."
--Tom Clune
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Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ianjmatt:
He would be found both camping with the protestors asking them challenging questions, and dining with the financiers and causing outrage with his true wisdom and challenge. That is all.
I am humbly me and not Jesus. So I can't pull either of those off. But I can decide whose side I'm on and I saw those headlines about 50% pay increases and business as usual as inflammatory enough to make me take sides.
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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ianjmatt
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# 5683
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:
quote:
Originally posted by ianjmatt:
He would be found both camping with the protestors asking them challenging questions, and dining with the financiers and causing outrage with his true wisdom and challenge. That is all.
I am humbly me and not Jesus. So I can't pull either of those off. But I can decide whose side I'm on and I saw those headlines about 50% pay increases and business as usual as inflammatory enough to make me take sides.
Fine - just don't claim to speak on behalf of Jesus or the Church.
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You might want to visit my blog:
http://lostintheheartofsomewhere.blogspot.com
But maybe not
Posts: 676 | From: Shropshire | Registered: Mar 2004
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mdijon
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# 8520
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Posted
Should I be trying to?
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
quote:
originally posted by ken:
This is politics, not some mild-mannered bring-and-share in a playgroup. If conservatives and right-wingers liked what they were doing they would be doing it wrong. The point is not to persuade them, it is to defeat them. Or at least expose them.
Oh...the aim is to defeat right wingers? So much for all that stuff about speaking for the 99%. In the United States, the right wing thrives on left wing protests such as this. In the UK, leftists camping outside a church may be able topple the Cameron government...or the Lord Mayor of London...whichever it is they are trying to topple.
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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