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Source: (consider it) Thread: US election aftermath
simontoad
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Someone implied that Syria was once a friend of the USA, even perhaps a client. Or I misread something... who knows. Anyway, Syria under the Assad family was always a client of the Ruskies.

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The opinions expressed above are transitory emotional responses and do not necessarily reflect the considered views of the author.

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by Kwesi:
How this helps the Syrian civilian population is anyone's guess.

Remind me which one of the bastards actually gives a shit about them?

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So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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Bishops Finger
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But...but...Chumpkin loves the 'beautiful babies'....doesn't he?

(As long as they don't poo on his golf courses)

[Paranoid]

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

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Barnabas62
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quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
50 to 60 US Tomahawks have just hit a regime airbase in Syria. An early report also says that Putin was not informed in advance. The targeting is connected with intelligence re chemical weapons capability.

Reality just bit.

Whose early report? Of course he was, and he was. I was out by 11 or 12 if they can make their minds up.
I was watching CNN (Anderson Cooper) and I think it was a flash comment from one of the news team. Not saying it was right - it was a confusing few hours.

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

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Martin60
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Ahhhh, there you go B62. It wasn't the Beeb was it?

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Love wins

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Martin60
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So, '62 anyone?

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Love wins

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Eutychus
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I read it on the BBC website, Martin.

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One has to take part. Scary as it is. - Martin60
Jerusalem is a city without walls

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Martin60
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The stream's moved on. I'd like to see how the BBC reported it nonetheless.

As for my '62 query above, that's not chasing Barnabas62, but the 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis.

Russian and Iran are now threatening America. Didn't see that one coming! They just want the chance to try and shoot down some cruise missiles. Funny they didn't try last week.

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Love wins

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
As for my '62 query above, that's not chasing Barnabas62, but the 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis.

Wait a moment! Barnabas62, the Cuban Missile Crisis in 1962, B62's profile pic...hmmm. Coincidence? I think not.

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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Sober Preacher's Kid

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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
A hundred years ago today was the day that the US entered WW1. No writer would ever have set up events this way, it's too pat. We are trapped in a melodrama written by a hack.

I am probably the last of my family who will be able to say this. My great-grandfather suffered a Mustard Gas attack on the Western Front in 1917. His respirator was shot off.

He survived, but his lungs were poor for the rest of his life. He died in the 1950's, and left my great-grandmother a widow for 40 years, she didn't pass away until 1993. That was extremely hard on her, and the rest of the family.

No, I have no sympathy for the use of chemical weapons. None. 100 years later and the wretched weapons are going to do it all over again to some other family.

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NDP Federal Convention, Edmonton 2016: More Trots than the Calgary Stampede!

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simontoad
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Good on you sober preacher's kid. My Grandpa was at Galipolli and then on the Western Front. He died in his 50's too. We found his grave again last year going for a walk on the anniversary of my father's death. I don't know if he was gassed, but I don't think so.

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The opinions expressed above are transitory emotional responses and do not necessarily reflect the considered views of the author.

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Barnabas62
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[Hot and Hormonal] I was 62 years old when I joined the Ship and there was another Barnabas Shipmate at the time. So I picked a number, without thinking obsolescence. Silly me.

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

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Martin60
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Similar reason, me. I wanted to declutter myself!

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Love wins

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
[Hot and Hormonal] I was 62 years old when I joined the Ship and there was another Barnabas Shipmate at the time. So I picked a number, without thinking obsolescence. Silly me.

Sure, 0062, sure.

[ 11. April 2017, 16:19: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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Crœsos
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WTF, Sean Spicer?

quote:
“We didn’t use chemical weapons in World War II,” Spicer told reporters, as he criticized the Russian government for its support of Assad. “Someone who is despicable as Hitler who didn't even sink to using chemical weapons. You have to, if you're Russia, ask yourself, is this a country that you, and a regime that you want to align yourself with?”

In fact, Hitler’s Nazi Germany did use chemical weapons, most notably through the Holocaust, the genocidal program intended to murder Europe’s entire Jewish population. Many of the Jews who died in the Holocaust were killed in gas chambers using Zyklon B and other poisons.

Spicer's attempt to walk this back was even worse, referring to the camps as "Holocaust Centers" and drawing a distinction between Holocaust victims and Hitler's "own people". Most of what's wrong here is summarized in this tweet. This has to be one of the worst cases of flack malpractice I've ever seen. You don't go full Godwin while forgetting about the Holocaust from behind a podium at the White House, and you sure as heck don't do it on the first day of Passover!

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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Bishops Finger
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Exactly which planet is this numpty from? He'll be saying next that the Holocaust either didn't happen, or was the Jews' own fault, or something worse.... [Eek!]

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

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Crœsos
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Spicer walk-back, take one:

quote:
In no way was I trying to lessen the horrendous nature of the Holocaust, however, I was trying to draw a contrast of the tactic of using airplanes to drop chemical weapons on innocent people.
Someone apparently noticed the unfortunate contrasting of Assad's victims ("innocent people") with Hitler's (maybe not so "innocent"), so take two:

quote:
In no way was I trying to lessen the horrendous nature of the Holocaust, however, I was trying to draw a contrast of the tactic of using airplanes to drop chemical weapons on population centers.
"Population centers" sounds a bit clinical, and a lot like you're making a semantic distinction based on geography. Take three:

quote:
In no way was I trying to lessen the horrendous nature of the Holocaust, however, I was trying to draw a contrast of the tactic of using airplanes to drop chemical weapons on population centers. Any attack on innocent people is reprehensible and inexcusable.
Given that this pretty much erases his whole "Assad is worse than Hitler" point, I expect take four to come along shortly.

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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Crœsos
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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Exactly which planet is this numpty from? He'll be saying next that the Holocaust either didn't happen, or was the Jews' own fault, or something worse.... [Eek!]

What do you mean "next"? I'm pretty sure claiming 'Hitler never gassed anyone' is denying the Holocaust happened.

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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Pigwidgeon

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I think Mr. Spicer needs to go back to playing the Easter Bunny.

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Don't keep calm. Go change the world.

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Crœsos
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quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
I think Mr. Spicer needs to go back to playing the Easter Bunny.

Maybe not. There looks to be some trouble there, too.

quote:
By that time, the ovoid uncertainty had raised a question perhaps not as consequential as investigations into Russian interference in the presidential election, a legally dubious travel ban and a collapsed health care bill, but no less a window into the inner workings of the Trump administration: Could this White House, plagued by slow hiring and lacking an on-site first lady, manage to pull off the largest, most elaborate and most heavily scrutinized public event of the year?

“It’s the single most high-profile event that takes place at the White House each year, and the White House and the first lady are judged on how well they put it on,” said Melinda Bates, who organized eight years of Easter Egg Rolls as director of the White House Visitors Office under President Bill Clinton. “I’m really concerned for the Trump people, because they have failed to fill some really vital posts, and this thing is all hands on deck.”

<snip>

The evidence points to a quickly thrown-together affair that people close to the planning said would probably draw about 20,000 people — substantially smaller than last year’s Easter Egg Roll, which drew 37,000. It will be staffed by 500 volunteers, Ms. Grisham said, half the usual. number. Ms. Grisham said she did not have “firm numbers” on the overall number of attendees, and those who provided estimates did so on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to describe the plans for the Easter Egg Roll, which are still evolving just a week before the event.


The White House has ordered 40,000 of the commemorative eggs — about half of the roughly 85,000 ordered in 2016 — with 18,000 to be given away at the Easter Egg Roll and another 22,000 available for sale, according to Lara Kline, the vice president for marketing and communications at the White House Historical Association, the official retailer.

Can these people do anything right?

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
Can these people do anything right?

Fool the electorate?


OK, OK, not the majority, but enough of them.

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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Golden Key
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ISTM it's *plausible/possible* that Spicer was simply thinking in terms of dropping chemical weapons in the way that Assad dropped them. He may simply have compartmentalized the concentration camps in a different compartment.

OTOH, he may be in way over his head, and not able to think well on his feet (if so, then totally in the wrong job)...or he might be a jerk.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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Baptist Trainfan
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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
ISTM it's *plausible/possible* that Spicer was simply thinking in terms of dropping chemical weapons in the way that Assad dropped them. He may simply have compartmentalized the concentration camps in a different compartment.

Yes, I thought that.

quote:
OTOH, he may be in way over his head, and not able to think well on his feet (if so, then totally in the wrong job)...or he might be a jerk.
I thought that, too.

(And, by the way, I am of 100% Jewish descent; many members of my family died in the Holocaust).

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Golden Key
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BT--

I'm sorry about your relatives.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:

OTOH, he may be in way over his head, and not able to think well on his feet (if so, then totally in the wrong job)...or he might be a jerk.

He is unquestionably in the wrong job. This is a prerequisite for the Trump administration, it would appear.
Short tempered, easily frustrated but not a jerk as far as I have seen.

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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Golden Key
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BTW, what happened to Kellyanne Conway? I did a quick search, but couldn't really find anything. (Though there was a mention of something to do with Michael Flynn.)

Thx.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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Pigwidgeon

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quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
I think Mr. Spicer needs to go back to playing the Easter Bunny.

Maybe not. There looks to be some trouble there, too.

If they manage to pull this off and attract a few hundred kids, I'm sure the PG will brag about how it was the bigliest Easter Egg Roll ever and he had many more attendees than Obama ever did.

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Don't keep calm. Go change the world.

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Jay-Emm
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quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
[qb] ISTM it's *plausible/possible* that Spicer was simply thinking in terms of dropping chemical weapons in the way that Assad dropped them. He may simply have compartmentalized the concentration camps in a different compartment.

Yes, I thought that.

I could well imagine doing that. Once you stop and think, it's obvious (and you can see what a stupid and hurtful thing it is to say).
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Crœsos
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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
ISTM it's *plausible/possible* that Spicer was simply thinking in terms of dropping chemical weapons in the way that Assad dropped them. He may simply have compartmentalized the concentration camps in a different compartment.

OTOH, he may be in way over his head, and not able to think well on his feet (if so, then totally in the wrong job)
...or he might be a jerk.

If the former is true, it means the latter is as well.

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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Crœsos
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And "I forgot the thing Hitler is most infamous for during my Hitler comparison" is not a particularly sympathetic explanation.

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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Golden Key
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Well, when I first heard a little bit about this, last night, it was just "Spicer said Hitler never used chemical weapons, like Assad did". I started trying to think if I knew anything about that, and decided I didn't.

I didn't make the connection to the concentration camps. I take the Holocaust very seriously. But I was specifically thinking in terms of chemical bombs (?). With time to think, I probably would've made the connection, provided I changed the category from "chemical weapons that creep used" to "unspeakable things that creep did".

So it's plausible to me that Spicer compartmentalized. Whether or not he did, I don't know.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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mousethief

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quote:
Originally posted by Jay-Emm:
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
[qb] ISTM it's *plausible/possible* that Spicer was simply thinking in terms of dropping chemical weapons in the way that Assad dropped them. He may simply have compartmentalized the concentration camps in a different compartment.

Yes, I thought that.

I could well imagine doing that. Once you stop and think, it's obvious (and you can see what a stupid and hurtful thing it is to say).
Stopping and thinking is not something either Spicer or 45 have often been accused of.

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God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. --Acts 10:28

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Stetson
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If Spicer was compartamentalizing, then his statement is kind of like saying "Charles Manson was horrible; even the Son Of Sam didn't murder people in their own homes", and then defending yourself by saying you were emphasizing the "...in their own homes part". But of course, there really isn't any moral difference between venues when it comes to killing people.

In any case, Spicer broke one of the two cardinal rules of political discission: DON'T MENTION HITLER. It usually does not end well, especially so when your point is to minimize(even relatively) the severity of his crimes.

(The other rule is "Always assume the microphone is on. No sympathy for anyone who gets in trouble for things said in front of a visible mike, even if he had every reason to assume it was off.)

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I have the power...Lucifer is lord!

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Barnabas62
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By any standards, the Hitler reference was an appalling error.

But I think Spicer's problem is that he is forced to compartmentalise all the time. There is the Trump version of reality and there is reality.

I don't think Spicer is dumb. I think anyone doing the job for Trump must have to live with high levels of cognitive dissonance.

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

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Crœsos
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quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
In any case, Spicer broke one of the two cardinal rules of political discission: DON'T MENTION HITLER. It usually does not end well, especially so when your point is to minimize (even relatively) the severity of his crimes.

Or, as Charlie Pierce put it:

quote:
I don't know what they teach folks in Flack School but, surely, don't talk about Hitler from behind a podium with a presidential seal on it has to be no worse than Lesson Number Three. My guess is that's been an iron rule for White House press secretaries since V-E Day.


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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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cliffdweller
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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
ISTM it's *plausible/possible* that Spicer was simply thinking in terms of dropping chemical weapons in the way that Assad dropped them. He may simply have compartmentalized the concentration camps in a different compartment.

OTOH, he may be in way over his head, and not able to think well on his feet (if so, then totally in the wrong job)...or he might be a jerk.

All of which wouldn't be so bad if the excessive narcissism of this administration didn't disallow any possible admission of making a mistake. As always, the attempts to explain away a careless misstatement made things far worse than the initial gaffe (saying Hitler didn't target "his own people" seems to marginalize German Jews in almost precisely the same way Hitler himself did). Were Spicer instead capable of doing the very normal human thing the rest of us do each & every day: "oops-- I misspoke. My apologies" (I just sent almost precisely that email moments ago)-- it would be a nonevent, a blip on the radar.

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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Sioni Sais
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Looks like Trump and his lackeys have forgotten that no gun is more dangerous than an unloaded one.

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If someone takes a shot at President Trump will his bodyguards shout "Donald Duck"?

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Martin60
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# 368

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quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
By any standards, the Hitler reference was an appalling error.

But I think Spicer's problem is that he is forced to compartmentalise all the time. There is the Trump version of reality and there is reality.

I don't think Spicer is dumb. I think anyone doing the job for Trump must have to live with high levels of cognitive dissonance.

A BA in government and a recent MA in national security and strategic studies. Not exactly Ivy League or as good as any fictional press secretary as in West Wing or Designated Survivor.

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Love wins

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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Sioni Sais--

quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Looks like Trump and his lackeys have forgotten that no gun is more dangerous than an unloaded one.

Would you explain this, please? Thx.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Sioni Sais--

quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Looks like Trump and his lackeys have forgotten that no gun is more dangerous than an unloaded one.

Would you explain this, please? Thx.
Gun safety #101. If you treat a gun like it's unloaded it instantly becomes more dangerous, because you underrate its potential for harm.
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Penny S
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# 14768

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I am getting mightily fed up with the expression "his own people". I know it is supposed to multiply the horror because they are supposed to be in his care, but it implies ownership, as if they were slaves.
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Jack the Lass

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quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
I am getting mightily fed up with the expression "his own people". I know it is supposed to multiply the horror because they are supposed to be in his care, but it implies ownership, as if they were slaves.

Yes, me too, for the same reason. It's one of those pat phrases that politicians think sound profound and appealing so they repeat it ad nauseam (cf "hard-working families" in the UK. Grrrr).

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"My body is a temple - it's big and doesn't move." (Jo Brand)
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Brenda Clough
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It also implies that there are others (Jews? Gypsies? Black people?) who do not fit into the 'ours' category. That's the first step on the long slippery slope that we all know well.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer

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Boogie

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# 13538

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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
It also implies that there are others (Jews? Gypsies? Black people?) who do not fit into the 'ours' category. That's the first step on the long slippery slope that we all know well.

Exactly.

It's irony in the extreme that an administration so keen to 'other' groups of people used another such regime as an example.

Trumpism is already on that slippery slope [Mad]

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Garden. Room. Walk

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cliffdweller
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# 13338

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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
It also implies that there are others (Jews? Gypsies? Black people?) who do not fit into the 'ours' category. That's the first step on the long slippery slope that we all know well.

Yes. The fact that Spicer used almost precisely the same rhetorical device as Hitler to explain away his Holocaust gaffe demonstrates exactly what is so chilling about this administration.

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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We went downtown and marched in the Tax March last weekend, and it was very hot. Today we went down for the March For Science, which was rainy and cold. Here's a web article about the March with a very brief interview and photograph of myself, about two thirds of the way down.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer

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Boogie

Boogie on down!
# 13538

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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
We went downtown and marched in the Tax March last weekend, and it was very hot. Today we went down for the March For Science, which was rainy and cold. Here's a web article about the March with a very brief interview and photograph of myself, about two thirds of the way down.

That's great Brenda - and an excellent sign which deserves to go viral.


[Smile]

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Garden. Room. Walk

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Nicolemr
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# 28

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I did the March for Science here in NYC today. It was awesome.

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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!

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Penny S
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# 14768

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I haven't had a report back from the friend on the London one yet, but someone has posted this on another board.

To be peer-reviewed: Newsbiscuit

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Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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I have made more than a dozen signs now for various marches, and I've put them all up on my Pinterest page so that people can borrow them at need. The ones from yesterday I released into the wild, handing them off to friends to carry in the actual march for me. (I had theater tickets in the pm, purchased last year.)

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Science fiction and fantasy writer

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