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» Ship of Fools   » Community discussion   » Purgatory   » Nazis are coming to town - what do you do? (Page 11)

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Source: (consider it) Thread: Nazis are coming to town - what do you do?
Martin60
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# 368

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@lilBuddha - we have His peerless examples of LONE, bravura performance, life and death courage in the face of murderous fascist mobs. His precise, minimal, LONE, violent protests. We have His Spirit in Ghandi's and MLK's followers.

@mdijon - their being there, having to be there, In Dubious Battle, is the consequence of Christians not.

And between we have the whole mixed bag in Charlottesville.

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Love wins

Posts: 16282 | From: More Corieltauvi than Dobunni now. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
mdijon
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That might be true in a very long-term sense, but I don't think it is true in the short-term sense that if Antifa saw a phalanx of Christians they would go home.

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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon

Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
Martin60
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# 368

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Sorry, I see ambiguity when it isn't there, but if you mean the antifa wouldn't go home despite a phalanx of non-violent Christians, I agree.

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Love wins

Posts: 16282 | From: More Corieltauvi than Dobunni now. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
wild haggis
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# 15555

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I think one of the problems is that police come heavily armed to pro-Nazi rallies and this winds them up. Violence breeds violence.

I think what saddens me is the number of people who call themselves Christians and yet espouse a pro-Nazi/KKK ethos. I have met them. It's horrible. I don't think they pay any attention to what Jesus said.

Sadly it isn't helped in USA by Mr Trump.

I think I would be on a silent, linked arms march. But if there is violence - we must never answer with counter violence - we go peacefully and quickly.

These groups thrive on attention. Maybe there should be a media blackout of their demos. How you would do that, I don't know.

I'm just glad that my mother in law is no longer alive, having lived through and escaped Nazi Germany.

One wonders what the death and suffering of WW2 was all about when we see pro-Nazi groups on our streets.

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wild haggis

Posts: 67 | From: Cardiff | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
chris stiles
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# 12641

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quote:
Originally posted by wild haggis:
I think one of the problems is that police come heavily armed to pro-Nazi rallies and this winds them up. Violence breeds violence.

[Roll Eyes] No, I don't think this is the case. These rallies when loosely policed have a history of descending into low level rioting/violence.

This strain of thought is delusional - there have been plenty of leaks from the various far right boards that show that such groups discuss strategies for violence extensively. The latest events were preceded by discussions of - among other things - running over protestors with cars.

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lilBuddha
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A problem is that the lack of response emboldens. So a response there must be.
I am not quite convinced that a non-collocation protest is necessarily the ticket, but not responding isn't a rational option. Especially not in this Brexit/trump world.

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So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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Crœsos
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# 238

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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
A problem is that the lack of response emboldens. So a response there must be.
I am not quite convinced that a non-collocation protest is necessarily the ticket, but not responding isn't a rational option. Especially not in this Brexit/trump world.

One of most commonplace conceits among American white supremacists is that everyone else secretly agrees with them. (Or at least everyone white, which to them is all that matters.) They believe everyone else (white) has simply been cowed into silence by [political correctness / the Jewish conspiracy / scary Negroes / whatever conspiracy is current this week]. A large, public counter-demonstration, one conducted where they can see it, is one of the key things that can disabuse them of this pernicious notion. It seems like a big factor in the recent case of the Nazi Vanishes.

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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SvitlanaV2
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quote:
Originally posted by wild haggis:

I think what saddens me is the number of people who call themselves Christians and yet espouse a pro-Nazi/KKK ethos. I have met them. It's horrible.

In which country have you met such people? I find it hard to believe that contemporary British Christianity and British neo-Nazism would overlap to any great degree.

The USA, by contrast, is still dealing with the legacy of the slave trade. It looks as if that legacy will never be put to rest. Indeed, the reduction in opportunities for white working class Americans is probably going to make things worse.

OTOH, Christian engagement is likely to become an increasingly middle class activity in the USA, as it has in the UK, so the specifically Christian aspect of working class American pro-Nazism could well decline.

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wild haggis
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I haven't seen a "low level" of policing at many demos. Police with riot shields is not "low level." Even some peaceful demos (nothing to do with the far right) have police with batons etc. on duty - I've been there.

In Britain we have the right to demonstrate, unless the organisation is banned. I know we need to keep citizens safe but one has to ask the question, does a high visibility of heavily armed (meaning riot gear etc) police not encourage some people to hit out and back at authority they see as trying to interfere in their right to demo? That perhaps is something that needs exploring? It isn't an easy question but does need to be broached. Violence breeds violence.

Yesterday's news is really worrying. If we have members of the armed forces, who have access to weapons, as part of a far right Nazi organisation, no matter how small, where will this end?

In the town where I lived until Easter, just walking down the street or reading replies on the local newspaper feed had comments that made my flesh creep.

Anti-immigration declarations by politicians on both sides of the Pond feed a "us and them" narrative. That then feeds a far right frame of mind - anyone different from us, needs to be excluded/exterminated.

We have forgotten what happened in Germany? Hitler was legally elected. People were taught that you had to do and say the right things, declared by politicians; to be different meant ..............
Are in the early stages of that journey? Heaven forbid.

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wild haggis

Posts: 67 | From: Cardiff | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
Enoch
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# 14322

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quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
quote:
Originally posted by wild haggis:

I think what saddens me is the number of people who call themselves Christians and yet espouse a pro-Nazi/KKK ethos. I have met them. It's horrible.

In which country have you met such people? I find it hard to believe that contemporary British Christianity and British neo-Nazism would overlap to any great degree....
I agree with SvitlanaV2. As far as I'm aware, I've never met a person with any church connection who had any involvement in neo-Nazism.

I can credit that there are undoubtedly church people in some parts of the country who vote UKIP. I'd regard that as pretty bad, but it does not categorise them as neo-Nazis.

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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson

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chris stiles
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# 12641

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quote:
Originally posted by wild haggis:
I haven't seen a "low level" of policing at many demos. Police with riot shields is not "low level." Even some peaceful demos (nothing to do with the far right) have police with batons etc. on duty - I've been there.

I said 'loosely' policed - which it seems to have applied to the Charlottesville protest - and this certainly seems to have applied at the start - especially compared with militia who turned up with AR15s and body armour.

Even in the UK, I've seen - as an example - Britain First rallies, where the police presence was a relatively small number of officers in high-vis jackets.

and there are plenty of cases where unopposed rallies/marches have ended up in 'low-level violence' (which was the only sense in which I used the adjective above) of smashing shop fronts and the like.

There is a long interview with Jason Wilson who was on the ground at Charlottesville and provided reports to a number of newspapers - here:

https://www.patreon.com/posts/radio-war-nerd-14111688

Interview starts at about 7 minutes in.

Posts: 3668 | From: Berkshire | Registered: May 2007  |  IP: Logged
Brenda Clough
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I have been at a couple demonstrations this year in downtown DC. The police were always present but it was indeed very low level, mainly traffic control. They have watched with tolerance as I absent-mindedly, block the passage of a squad car.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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