homepage
  roll on christmas  
click here to find out more about ship of fools click here to sign up for the ship of fools newsletter click here to support ship of fools
community the mystery worshipper gadgets for god caption competition foolishness features ship stuff
discussion boards live chat cafe avatars frequently-asked questions the ten commandments gallery private boards register for the boards
 
Ship of Fools


Post new thread  Post a reply
My profile login | Register | Directory | Search | FAQs | Board home
   - Printer-friendly view Next oldest thread   Next newest thread
» Ship of Fools   » Community discussion   » Hell   » Fuck the Amerixan injustice system (Page 1)

 - Email this page to a friend or enemy.  
Pages in this thread: 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8 
 
Source: (consider it) Thread: Fuck the Amerixan injustice system
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333

 - Posted      Profile for lilBuddha     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
And fuck this piece of shite rapist, his father and the judge. This case has nearly everything wrong possible. White privilege, affluenza and misogyny.
I am so furious, I'm wishing for the three of them to be penetrated for 20 minutes.

Oh, for those of you too stupid to realise that this is angry expression, fuck you.

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

Posts: 16604 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged
mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330

 - Posted      Profile for mr cheesy   Email mr cheesy   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
The victim statement - which I think is from the case you're describing - is one of the most powerful things I've ever read.

--------------------
overheard on a Welsh bus-stop: Jesus don't care about you, he's only interested in your soul

Posts: 9830 | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
comet

Snowball in Hell
# 10353

 - Posted      Profile for comet   Author's homepage   Email comet   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I'm afraid my ability to be shocked by evil people has been overrun by reality. This didn't surprise me at all. It just enforces my wish to stay the fuck away from a humanity that still allows this kind of appalling thinking.

I hope the son, the father, the judge, and most importantly their immediate peers who let them think this was okay, to die. Slowly. By fire. Feeling every fucking moment of it.

While the victim and the rest of society roasts marshmallows.

--------------------
Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions

"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin

Posts: 17022 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047

 - Posted      Profile for Arethosemyfeet   Email Arethosemyfeet   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Ugh, that's a horrible idea. Can you imagine how bad the marshmallows will taste permeated with misogynist-smoke?
Posts: 2788 | From: Hebrides | Registered: Apr 2012  |  IP: Logged
mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330

 - Posted      Profile for mr cheesy   Email mr cheesy   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I know it sounds a bit stupid - and I don't mean it to be - but I really hope that this boy doesn't end up going around schools doing presentations on excess drinking (which I think I read his father seemed to be suggesting he would be) and instead spends a lot of time doing something very mundane. A massive cross-stitch, some extended wood whittling, something like that. I hope that in about 5 minutes, everyone will forget about him and he'll not return as a sportsperson, a politician, a lawyer or anything else like that.

And I really hope that the victim is able to use her talent and anger to achieve something really good with her life.

If I was a deity and could move some levers, that's what I'd be doing here, I think.

--------------------
overheard on a Welsh bus-stop: Jesus don't care about you, he's only interested in your soul

Posts: 9830 | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564

 - Posted      Profile for Leorning Cniht   Email Leorning Cniht   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I had a hard time deciding what was the worst thing about this foetid pile of garbage, but in the end, I decided it was the dad's statement.

You know - the one that had no kind of recognition that his son had raped someone, and a whole bunch of whining about how his steak-eating, chip-loving all-star swimmer son is now going to have his life choices constrained because he's labelled as a rapist because of one brief little incident.

Which is a shame, really, because hidden in the morass of excuses, victim-blaming, and entitlement were hints of a truth.

The rapist went to a party, got drunk, and raped a young woman who was incapable of consent. We are asked to believe by his father that he wouldn't have raped anyone had he been sober. Maybe that's true.

So here's the truth:

YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR ACTIONS.

Being drunk is not an excuse. If you run the risk of making bad choices, don't put yourself in that situation, or you might have to deal with the consequences.

In this case, we are asked to believe that a fine upstanding young swimmer was lead astray by drink. Bullshit. If you are able to rape someone when your inhibitions are lowered through drink, you're not a fine upstanding young man - you are a sleazy sexual predator.

Not all sleazy predators are rapists, but if you have the mind of a sleazy predator, then you're far more at risk for committing rape than if you don't.

If the rapist in this case spoke about that - if he came out and gave an honest account of the way he thought about women, and talked about his corrosive sexual objectification attitude towards women, his choice to try and acquire sex from drunk women at a party, and his drinking dulling his awareness of the consequences led to him raping someone, and that now he has to live with the consequences of being a rapist for the rest of his life, then maybe that would be helpful.

But he doesn't have enough self-honesty for that. What he has is whining, and excuses.

Sure, I'd prefer it if young men would learn that young women are people, rather than targets, but maybe this is an easier step.

YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR ACTIONS.

Even if you get drunk. So sober you needs to think about what position he's going to put drunk you into.

Posts: 4750 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013  |  IP: Logged
cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338

 - Posted      Profile for cliffdweller     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
... and then the dad wanting to turn it into a statement about the dangers of "drinking and promiscuity". Like the son's crime was cheating on his girlfriend. Yeah, that's what we're so pissed about. Not the fact that you violently assaulted an unconscious woman. It's the fact that he was "promiscuous".

--------------------
"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

Posts: 10910 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged
Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

 - Posted      Profile for Brenda Clough   Author's homepage   Email Brenda Clough   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I have been comforting myself with thoughts of this boy's employment prospects. Which are zero. You would not hire him. What corporation would? It would lay them open to massive liability the first time he feels up a secretary. Far easier to hire one of the many many applicants who is not a convicted rapist, eh? Any internet search will turn up this guy's name, from now until the heat death of the universe. He'll never have a security clearance, never be able to join the military, get a pilot's license, run for office.
And his dating prospects. Zero, one would hope, although there are ditzy women would would find this history attractive. Certainly no parent would willingly allow this jerk to date his daughter. His best hope would be a name change, but facial recognition software is getting very powerful. Perhaps combined with plastic surgery...

--------------------
Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

Posts: 5358 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014  |  IP: Logged
Pigwidgeon

Ship's Owl
# 10192

 - Posted      Profile for Pigwidgeon   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
"A long sentence would be 'a steep price to pay for 20 minutes of action out of his 20 years of life'," Dan Turner wrote.

What it he'd fatally shot or stabbed a few dozen people in 20 minutes? Should he get off easy because it was only 20 minutes?

[Mad]

--------------------
Don't keep calm. Go change the world.

Posts: 9304 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768

 - Posted      Profile for Penny S     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
And he didn't just have sex, did he? He stuck something which was not him into her. How do he, his father and the judge think that isn't a serious assault?
Posts: 5758 | Registered: May 2009  |  IP: Logged
cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338

 - Posted      Profile for cliffdweller     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Well, he only stuck it in there for a few minutes, so...

--------------------
"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

Posts: 10910 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged
Lyda*Rose

Ship's broken porthole
# 4544

 - Posted      Profile for Lyda*Rose   Email Lyda*Rose   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
"Twenty minutes of action." Meh.

I wonder if she could sue him, take his trust fund.

--------------------
"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano

Posts: 21258 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Huia
Shipmate
# 3473

 - Posted      Profile for Huia   Email Huia   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Reports on this have been difficult for me to read, so I may have misunderstood, but how come the perpetrator's father could write a letter to the judge? Isn't that considered to be interfering with the due process of the law? Or was it published as an "open letter" in the media, rather than a direct communication? With the sense of entitlement both he and his son have it is clear this rotten apple didn't fall far from the tree.

I am in awe of the ability of the woman who made such an articulate, powerful statement.

Huia

--------------------
Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.

Posts: 9996 | From: Te Wai Pounamu | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330

 - Posted      Profile for mr cheesy   Email mr cheesy   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Huia:
Reports on this have been difficult for me to read, so I may have misunderstood, but how come the perpetrator's father could write a letter to the judge? Isn't that considered to be interfering with the due process of the law? Or was it published as an "open letter" in the media, rather than a direct communication? With the sense of entitlement both he and his son have it is clear this rotten apple didn't fall far from the tree.

Somehow it appears to have been allowed as mitigation before sentencing. I could be wrong - but it sounds like it was part of the legal process.

quote:
I am in awe of the ability of the woman who made such an articulate, powerful statement.

Huia

Me too. I hope she is studying to be a lawyer, on the basis of that she's going to be bloody brilliant.

--------------------
overheard on a Welsh bus-stop: Jesus don't care about you, he's only interested in your soul

Posts: 9830 | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330

 - Posted      Profile for mr cheesy   Email mr cheesy   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
If you thought this all sounds like something from the Onion..

--------------------
overheard on a Welsh bus-stop: Jesus don't care about you, he's only interested in your soul

Posts: 9830 | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Palimpsest
Shipmate
# 16772

 - Posted      Profile for Palimpsest   Email Palimpsest   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
It's pretty wretched. Another example that the rich who hire good lawyers can avoid responsibility for their actions.

There's an interesting description of Judge Persky

( NY Times paywall after limited articles)

Despite having run on his record prosecuting violent sex offenders, it seems he identified with the defendant as a fellow college athlete.

As for the father, it's easy to mourn that one's son has lost his way. To minimize it as "20 minutes of action" is pretty despicable. It will be interesting to see if the son gets a few hours of action while in jail.

Posts: 2975 | From: Seattle WA. US | Registered: Nov 2011  |  IP: Logged
mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

 - Posted      Profile for mousethief   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Murder can be just 20 seconds of action, or less. Since when does how long something takes become a measure of how wrong it is, or how despicable, or how much it should affect your life?

I'd like to see Dad go to prison with Lad. They're both despicable.

--------------------
God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. --Acts 10:28

Posts: 62951 | From: Ecotopia | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564

 - Posted      Profile for Leorning Cniht   Email Leorning Cniht   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Palimpsest:

As for the father, it's easy to mourn that one's son has lost his way.

Some time ago, I remember reading about the father of a convicted murderer. Murderer was scheduled to be executed. Father shows up, and the press are on him like a pack of hyenas. Father's words were something like "My son has done a terrible thing. I am here to help him die. Then I'm going home to grieve."

That's a father who loves his son but isn't afraid to face the truth.

This weasel? Apple, meet tree.

Posts: 4750 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013  |  IP: Logged
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

 - Posted      Profile for Lamb Chopped   Email Lamb Chopped   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Because I can't cope with the major horror, I'm going to focus on a minor horror: what the fuck is this "20 minutes of action" the father speaks of? "Action" is what a sleazeball but non-rapist American guy says he's going looking for when he's trying to pick up a girl at a bar. "I'm gonna get me some 'action,'" meaning enjoyable active sex with a willing partner. He's devaluing the woman, of course, by putting the whole encounter in terms of what he's going to get, but it's not rape. It's just sleazy and yeccchhh.

But rape is a whole different universe of bad. Rape is not "action." It is AN action by one evil person upon a victim, and a damned unpleasant one at that.

For the father to refer to the rape as "20 minutes of action" in the context of American English says pretty strongly to me that he doesn't understand the meaning of rape any better than his son does. It's like saying "20 minutes of tail." What an asshole.

--------------------
Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

Posts: 19958 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330

 - Posted      Profile for mr cheesy   Email mr cheesy   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:

For the father to refer to the rape as "20 minutes of action" in the context of American English says pretty strongly to me that he doesn't understand the meaning of rape any better than his son does. It's like saying "20 minutes of tail." What an asshole.

Hard to see this as anything other than a deliberate legal strategy to downplay the event and the impact on the victim.

Yeah, ok, my son interfered with a young unconscious woman - but he was drunk, she was drunk, and it wasn't technically "rape", right? She'll get over it, he's got his life planned out in front of him and we can all move on.

--------------------
overheard on a Welsh bus-stop: Jesus don't care about you, he's only interested in your soul

Posts: 9830 | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Net Spinster
Shipmate
# 16058

 - Posted      Profile for Net Spinster   Email Net Spinster   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
This event is local to me (I've walked by the spot where the assault happened a number of times over the decades) and it has been very much on the local news since it happened (you probably don't want to read the comments section of the university newspaper given a few of the comments though the majority are supportive of Emily Doe). There is one bright spot in the two grad students who were biking by, realized something was wrong, intervened, and then tackled and pinned Turner to the ground when he ran away. I call to hell those commenters who say they shouldn't have intervened because then Emily Doe wouldn't have known she was sexually assaulted and so wouldn't have been traumatized. (and of course Brock Turner's life wouldn't have been ruined.)

--------------------
spinner of webs

Posts: 1077 | From: San Francisco Bay area | Registered: Dec 2010  |  IP: Logged
Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815

 - Posted      Profile for Gee D     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
quote:
Originally posted by Palimpsest:

As for the father, it's easy to mourn that one's son has lost his way.

Some time ago, I remember reading about the father of a convicted murderer. Murderer was scheduled to be executed. Father shows up, and the press are on him like a pack of hyenas. Father's words were something like "My son has done a terrible thing. I am here to help him die. Then I'm going home to grieve."

That's a father who loves his son but isn't afraid to face the truth.

This weasel? Apple, meet tree.

That was Timothy McVeigh. The father also said that while he had committed a horrible crime, he was still his son. Very sad. An enormous difference between that dignity and what's going on in this case.

--------------------
Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican

Posts: 6618 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged
mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330

 - Posted      Profile for mr cheesy   Email mr cheesy   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Net Spinster:
There is one bright spot in the two grad students who were biking by, realized something was wrong, intervened, and then tackled and pinned Turner to the ground when he ran away. I call to hell those commenters who say they shouldn't have intervened because then Emily Doe wouldn't have known she was sexually assaulted and so wouldn't have been traumatized. (and of course Brock Turner's life wouldn't have been ruined.)

I think I read that they were foreign students, too.

--------------------
overheard on a Welsh bus-stop: Jesus don't care about you, he's only interested in your soul

Posts: 9830 | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768

 - Posted      Profile for Penny S     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Over here there has been a case of a young man who has serially abused young children in the Far East. He came back, the case broke, he owned up to his parents, who immediately rang the police and said 'take him away, we don't want him in this house any more'.
Posts: 5758 | Registered: May 2009  |  IP: Logged
Matt Black

Shipmate
# 2210

 - Posted      Profile for Matt Black   Email Matt Black   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
'20 minutes of action', eh? I think father and son should be sent over here and find out what '20 minutes of action' with Big Ron on D Wing in the showers in Parkhurst feels like...

--------------------
"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)

Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768

 - Posted      Profile for Penny S     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I've been reading some of the accounts of the case, and would like an explanation of the difference between jail and prison and why he deserves one and not the other. I'm used to using the words interchangeably over here, without any difference in regime implied.
Posts: 5758 | Registered: May 2009  |  IP: Logged
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768

 - Posted      Profile for Penny S     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
The context of that question was a piece by a Scott Herhold* of the 'Mercury News' arguing that 6 months in county jail was correct because Turner does not deserve state prison. The article included this:

quote:
Turner met the victim at a party at the Kappa Alpha fraternity. Both were drunk: The woman was so drunk that she does not remember what happened. On the stand, she acknowledged having blacked out on several previous occasions while drinking.

At some point, the two lay down on the ground near a trash bin, where Turner assaulted the woman, who was unconscious when the Swedish students came upon the scene.

Which seems pretty close to victim blaming in the absence of evidence of how she got there.

*His surname seems unfortunate in this case.


And, separately, the father started a fund for people to contribute to in order to help the Turners meet the expenses of the defence!!!

[ 08. June 2016, 09:54: Message edited by: Penny S ]

Posts: 5758 | Registered: May 2009  |  IP: Logged
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768

 - Posted      Profile for Penny S     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
And there has been found a woman friend of the defendant to defend him as a victim of political correctness.

US Weekly

quote:
“I don’t think it’s fair to base the fate of the next 10+ years of his life on the decision of a girl who doesn’t remember anything but the amount she drank to press charges against him. I am not blaming her directly for this, because that isn’t right,” she wrote to Judge Persky. “But where do we draw the line and stop worrying about being politically correct every second of the day and see that rape on campuses isn’t always because people are rapists.”

She then went on to argue that sexual assaults driven by alcohol are different than an assault in which a woman is abducted and raped.

“This is completely different from a woman getting kidnapped and raped as she is walking to her car in a parking lot,” Rasmussen continued. “That is a rapist. These are not rapists. These are idiot boys and girls having too much to drink and not being aware of their surroundings and having clouded judgment.”

She needs to read the victim's letter. Several times. Carefully.
Posts: 5758 | Registered: May 2009  |  IP: Logged
mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330

 - Posted      Profile for mr cheesy   Email mr cheesy   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Woman friend posted above:

“I don’t think it’s fair to base the fate of the next 10+ years of his life on the decision of a girl who doesn’t remember anything but the amount she drank to press charges against him. I am not blaming her directly for this, because that isn’t right,” she wrote to Judge Persky. “But where do we draw the line and stop worrying about being politically correct every second of the day and see that rape on campuses isn’t always because people are rapists.”

OK lady, so you're drunk off your face and lying in the middle of the road. By your argument it wouldn't be right for you to press charges if I deliberately drive over your head with my truck.

No. Don't talk shit.

--------------------
overheard on a Welsh bus-stop: Jesus don't care about you, he's only interested in your soul

Posts: 9830 | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Matt Black

Shipmate
# 2210

 - Posted      Profile for Matt Black   Email Matt Black   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
[Overused] To complete the analogy, the truck driver would also have to be off his face....so that's alright then...

--------------------
"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)

Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

 - Posted      Profile for Golden Key   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Penny--

Re jail/prison:

My understanding is that, generally, US jails are less-worse places for people who've done less-worse things. (And sometimes for people charged but not tried, who can't make bail.) Prisons are horrible places, for people who've done much worse things. And then there are places like Pelican Bay State Prison, which is known to drive men insane.

However, California's prisons are massively over-crowded, and many prisoners have been shunted off to jails. And San Francisco jail had a problem with law-enforcement officers forcing prisoners into a fight club.

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

Posts: 17660 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338

 - Posted      Profile for cliffdweller     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Net Spinster:
This event is local to me (I've walked by the spot where the assault happened a number of times over the decades) and it has been very much on the local news since it happened (you probably don't want to read the comments section of the university newspaper given a few of the comments though the majority are supportive of Emily Doe). There is one bright spot in the two grad students who were biking by, realized something was wrong, intervened, and then tackled and pinned Turner to the ground when he ran away. I call to hell those commenters who say they shouldn't have intervened because then Emily Doe wouldn't have known she was sexually assaulted and so wouldn't have been traumatized. (and of course Brock Turner's life wouldn't have been ruined.)

I think when you wake up next to a dumpster with your clothes ripped off, all sorts of bruises and abrasions, and pine needles stuck up your vagina, you're going to figure it out...

Totally agree about the two Swedish students, who have recently been identified. I loved the part in the victim's beautiful statement where she talks about them. She didn't even know their names, but she drew a picture of two bicycles and taped it to the wall over the bed where she cannot sleep at night. A beautiful image and reminder that most men bear no resemblance to the scumbag who did this.

--------------------
"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

Posts: 10910 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged
Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

 - Posted      Profile for Alan Cresswell   Email Alan Cresswell   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
The state of prisons/jails is another example of the poor state of the criminal justice system. But, don't worry. When Trump is elected he'll get to appoint some Supreme Court justices, they'll solve all these problems of lenient judges. And, deport all those people filling up the prisons. The Mexican government will need the cheap labour to build the Wall.

--------------------
Don't Brexit if you haven't a scooby how to fix it.

Posts: 31967 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338

 - Posted      Profile for cliffdweller     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
And there has been found a woman friend of the defendant to defend him as a victim of political correctness.

US Weekly

quote:
“I don’t think it’s fair to base the fate of the next 10+ years of his life on the decision of a girl who doesn’t remember anything but the amount she drank to press charges against him. I am not blaming her directly for this, because that isn’t right,” she wrote to Judge Persky. “But where do we draw the line and stop worrying about being politically correct every second of the day and see that rape on campuses isn’t always because people are rapists.”

She then went on to argue that sexual assaults driven by alcohol are different than an assault in which a woman is abducted and raped.

“This is completely different from a woman getting kidnapped and raped as she is walking to her car in a parking lot,” Rasmussen continued. “That is a rapist. These are not rapists. These are idiot boys and girls having too much to drink and not being aware of their surroundings and having clouded judgment.”

She needs to read the victim's letter. Several times. Carefully.
As well as take a few classes in logic. She wants people to "see that rape on campuses isn’t always because people are rapists”??? Uh, yes it is. Anyone who rapes is, by definition, a rapist, Even if they also happen to be an athlete or really smart or cute or your good friend from high school. So yeah, rape on campuses or anywhere else happens because there are people who are rapists.

And, while it's easy to mock her for such rhetorical idiocy, it's also really scary-- because she, too, is a young college-age woman, and is buying into the sort of thinking that makes this sort of horrific event all the more likely to occur.

[ 08. June 2016, 13:47: Message edited by: cliffdweller ]

--------------------
"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

Posts: 10910 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged
Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

 - Posted      Profile for Brenda Clough   Author's homepage   Email Brenda Clough   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
There is also a difference between pre-trial custody (to keep you on hand if you don't make bail) and the place they send you after you are convicted.
Sadly, the US prison system is as tiered as the rest of society. If you are a well-off white-collar criminal, or elderly, or white, you can wrangle your way into a country-club facility with others of your kidney, where you get to sort books in the prison library or something. The Rikers Island type prisons you see on TV dramas are reserved, alas, for violent prisoners, persons of color or ethnicity, and poor people.
This differentiation dates well back in time. I happened to tour the Eastern State Penitentiary in Philadelphia last month -- it was a model Victorian prison, and Charles Dickens visited it. Al Capone did about six months there, and they have preserved his cell as it was when he was incarcerated. You would love it -- the oriental carpet, the Philco radio, the desk, the armchair, the study lamp. It looks like the study of an Oxford don. The other cells look like dog kennels. He had money and power, you see.

--------------------
Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

Posts: 5358 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014  |  IP: Logged
Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

 - Posted      Profile for Alan Cresswell   Email Alan Cresswell   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
She wants people to "see that rape on campuses isn’t always because people are rapists”??? Uh, yes it is. Anyone who rapes is, by definition, a rapist

It's not really all that difficult. Person A wants sex with person B, if they do so and any of the following apply then it is rape, and person A is a rapist.
  • Person B says "No"
  • Person B is unable to say anything at all
  • Person B is off their face from too much drink and doesn't know what they're saying
  • Several other scenarios whereby person B does not give full and free consent
If person A is also off their face from too much drink then that doesn't mean they aren't a rapist. It means they're a rapist who committed the crime while intoxicated.

--------------------
Don't Brexit if you haven't a scooby how to fix it.

Posts: 31967 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Matt Black

Shipmate
# 2210

 - Posted      Profile for Matt Black   Email Matt Black   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Well-established principle that drunkeness is no defence

--------------------
"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)

Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564

 - Posted      Profile for Leorning Cniht   Email Leorning Cniht   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
Anyone who rapes is, by definition, a rapist, Even if they also happen to be an athlete or really smart or cute or your good friend from high school.

Quite.

We all know that people get drunk and have sex that they regret in the morning. It's been a staple of comedy practically forever - someone is drinking at a party, bar, or whatever, and wakes up naked in bed with their best friend's boy/girlfriend, their best friend, their best friend's mother or father, or just someone old and unattractive that they would never normally give a second glance to.

Drunk people taking each other's clothes off isn't rape, even if you regret it in the morning.* That's not what this was. From the evidence of the two Swedish students who found them, the victim was passed out on the floor, and the attacker was humping her body.

IF SHE'S PASSED OUT, SHE'S NOT CONSENTING TO ANYTHING.

Even if she was ripping your clothes off five minutes ago, she's now unresponsive. She's a person, not a sex toy. Stop fucking her unresponsive body.

*Colleges seem to have muddied the waters on this a bit. They've had good intentions, but have managed to conflate drunk stupid sex with rape, and it's probably this kind of conflation that has fuelled the kind of nonsense "defense" that the woman writing the letter makes.

Posts: 4750 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013  |  IP: Logged
Twilight

Puddleglum's sister
# 2832

 - Posted      Profile for Twilight     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I have a question for everyone who thinks six months is not enough time. How much time do you think he should do?
Posts: 6653 | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740

 - Posted      Profile for quetzalcoatl   Email quetzalcoatl   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Five years. That is, ten, if you get half off.

--------------------
no path

Posts: 9521 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011  |  IP: Logged
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768

 - Posted      Profile for Penny S     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Somewhere between 6 months and the 35 years given to another 19 year old university athlete who raped a young woman who was unconscious.

Guess the difference between the two perpetrators. (I'm on a different computer so can't use history to get the link, and spent rather too much time on this this morning.)

[ 08. June 2016, 15:38: Message edited by: Penny S ]

Posts: 5758 | Registered: May 2009  |  IP: Logged
RooK

1 of 6
# 1852

 - Posted      Profile for RooK   Author's homepage   Email RooK   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
I have a question for everyone who thinks six months is not enough time. How much time do you think he should do?

I think six months is not enough simply because it is less than the general minimum for such a conviction. I could stomach the judge allotting the minimum sentence, for whatever reasons the judge judged with his judgey judgement.

But since this case is outside of the sentencing guidelines, I think it is reasonable to expect that there should be some exceptional reason for such leniency for this particular unrepentant convicted rapist.

Posts: 15098 | From: Portland, Oregon, USA, Earth | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768

 - Posted      Profile for Penny S     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Correction to the above. The other case had a sentence of 15 to 25 mandatory minimum.

Link to article.

[ 08. June 2016, 16:27: Message edited by: Penny S ]

Posts: 5758 | Registered: May 2009  |  IP: Logged
no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

 - Posted      Profile for no prophet's flag is set so...   Author's homepage   Email no prophet's flag is set so...   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
I have a question for everyone who thinks six months is not enough time. How much time do you think he should do?

The Court of Appeal sentencing for my Canadian province says 4 years is the starting point for a "penetration" offence, with aggravating factors increasing the time. Those factors are violence include addition to violence-by-definition of a sexual assault. Re parole, the Canadian system indicates in general that 1/6 of the sentence served is enough for day parole and 1/3 for full parole. However, for offences of violence against people, the lines shift such that parole of any kind won't be considered until 1/3 or 1/2 of sentence. I don't know the statistics for "detention", but it is common for violent and sexual offenders to to be "detained" for the entire length of their sentence.

Personally I think sentences for many sexual offences should be life, e.g., stranger rapists. With life meaning a period of lock-up, followed by permanent parole, which may involve lifetime electronic ankle bracelet monitoring for life, and the system having the authority to return the offender to custody at any time risks and lifestyle stability suggest someone could be harmed. The rights of the sex offender are secondary, and our empathy/sympathy is always misplaced if we consider their rights and life as more important than those they've assaulted and harmed who may recover rather well, but it is never gone.

I haven't read the details of this rapist's crime in any detail and don't intend to. Presumably there is a Court of Appeal in this American jurisdiction? Which would apply guidelines for reasonable sentencing and revise? Otherwise, it would appear that all the wrong people get shot.

Posts: 10840 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564

 - Posted      Profile for Leorning Cniht   Email Leorning Cniht   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
I have a question for everyone who thinks six months is not enough time. How much time do you think he should do?

As others have said, I think his punishment should fall above the minimum of the normal range (because he hasn't shown any kind of understanding of his crime, an especially light sentence sends the wrong message both to him and to other people like him).

AIUI, the normal sentence for forcible penetration with an object (one of the three felonies the criminal was convicted of) is between three and eight years in state prison.

So that's the starting point. 3-8 is the range, with "mild" cases falling at the low end and "bad" cases at the high end.

The prosecution argued for six years, claiming that purposely isolating the incapable victim and taking her behind the dumpsters is an aggravating factor that places this beyond the "typical" campus date rape.

I don't know that I particularly buy that as an aggravating factor. Actually, it looks like the options might be 3, 6 or 8 years rather than a continuous scale, in which case I have a binary choice between 3 and 6 years. Probably in this case I chose 3, although I'd quite like to choose 4.

Posts: 4750 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013  |  IP: Logged
Twilight

Puddleglum's sister
# 2832

 - Posted      Profile for Twilight     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I think three to four seems about right, too.

Due to the whims of the media, this case has received so much more attention than so many, similar and worse, crimes. The perpetrator will be on the receiving end of the sort of hatred usually reserved for pedophiles and no one will soon forget.

He committed a crime. He assaulted a defenseless woman, so he should be given a sentence that is on the scale for similar crimes. What I don't think is that he should be held responsible for his father's idiotic, inflammatory letter, or on the other hand be punished more harshly due to the particularly eloquent letter of his victim and the talent of the professional newscaster who read it to the world.

Posts: 6653 | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338

 - Posted      Profile for cliffdweller     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
I think three to four seems about right, too.

Due to the whims of the media, this case has received so much more attention than so many, similar and worse, crimes. The perpetrator will be on the receiving end of the sort of hatred usually reserved for pedophiles and no one will soon forget.

He committed a crime. He assaulted a defenseless woman, so he should be given a sentence that is on the scale for similar crimes. What I don't think is that he should be held responsible for his father's idiotic, inflammatory letter, or on the other hand be punished more harshly due to the particularly eloquent letter of his victim and the talent of the professional newscaster who read it to the world.

He also shouldn't receive a sentence that is a fraction of what other young men who differ only in their skin color have rec'd for the exact same crime.

fyi: Pedophiles are hated because of the extreme danger they pose to others. Rapists-- all rapists, not just this one-- are pretty much in the same category, for the same reason. See: Bill Cosby.

--------------------
"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

Posts: 10910 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged
mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330

 - Posted      Profile for mr cheesy   Email mr cheesy   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
I think three to four seems about right, too.

Due to the whims of the media, this case has received so much more attention than so many, similar and worse, crimes. The perpetrator will be on the receiving end of the sort of hatred usually reserved for pedophiles and no one will soon forget.

Please help me understand. A man who forces himself onto an unconscious woman should not be publicised or called out because there are worse crimes we should be talking about..?

FFS. I don't suppose anyone really gives a shit how long he is in prison, the real pain that the victim expresses is that everyone - the guy, his father even the fucking judge in the trial - seems to be conspiring to downplay the fact that he's interfered with an unconscious person because, y'know, he's just a jock.

If he goes to prison for 3 years and comes out with the same attitude - thinking that society has done him something wrong and that he should be able to turn his life around with a book deal and a nice city job - then nothing has changed, has it?

If he went to prison for one day but that experience somehow shook him up to the extent that he actually understands and takes responsibility for his actions - that would be a result.

quote:
He committed a crime. He assaulted a defenseless woman, so he should be given a sentence that is on the scale for similar crimes. What I don't think is that he should be held responsible for his father's idiotic, inflammatory letter, or on the other hand be punished more harshly due to the particularly eloquent letter of his victim and the talent of the professional newscaster who read it to the world.
I'm sorry, that doesn't even seem to vaguely relate to the truth. At present he has a punishment which is the absolute minimum that he could be given - and the judge said specifically (IIRC) that was partly due to the representation by the father.

--------------------
overheard on a Welsh bus-stop: Jesus don't care about you, he's only interested in your soul

Posts: 9830 | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

 - Posted      Profile for Brenda Clough   Author's homepage   Email Brenda Clough   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
The judge also received a boatload of pleading letters from friends, family and influential persons.

--------------------
Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

Posts: 5358 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014  |  IP: Logged
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768

 - Posted      Profile for Penny S     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I wonder if it is also because he is not only white, with friends, but pretty.

And people can't believe he would find it so difficult to get a girl to sleep with that he had to rape her.

Posts: 5758 | Registered: May 2009  |  IP: Logged



Pages in this thread: 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8 
 
Post new thread  Post a reply Close thread   Feature thread   Move thread   Delete thread Next oldest thread   Next newest thread
 - Printer-friendly view
Go to:

Contact us | Ship of Fools | Privacy statement

© Ship of Fools 2016

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.5.0

 
Check out Reform magazine
sip of fools mugs from your favourite nautical website
 
  ship of fools