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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Doctor Who: Fall 2014
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
The old thread is still closed. Here is a new one.
So: Time-Heist. What did people think?
One of the big twists was foreseeable in advance, but it kept things moving along quickly enough that when it turned up I thought, yes I knew it, rather than why are you making such heavy weather of something obvious.
[ 17. June 2016, 14:41: Message edited by: Belisarius ]
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
An odd but interesting episode.
I liked the way the Doctor ran out of breath and had to stop, instead of belting on down the corridor outrunning everyone - a good visual reminder that he isn't a young character. Capaldi really is a great choice for the part in all sorts of ways; he has a face that can look young sometimes but also very old at others.
The Teller looked like a minotaur with eyes in the horns. This would fit with the idea of the Doctor and companions running through the maze to get to the centre, but the twist is that the being that lives in the centre where the minotaur traditionally lives is the owner of the bank.
I was interested by the idea of the Teller feeding on negative emotions - literally a "sin eater". And unconvinced by the sudden reappearance of Psi and Saibra, claiming that the "atomic shredder" was actually a "teleport"; also more could have been made of Saibra's ability to take on the appearance of anyone she touched.
There was one point where I was very much reminded that the creator of the series also wrote Sherlock, when he was telling everyone to shut up. That was much more Cumberbatch, but another brilliant anarchic, sometimes questionable hero figure.
At times the Doctor reminded me also very much of Hartnell and Pertwee. Curiously enough, in certain lights Clara looked distinctly like Jo, but YMMV.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Hugal
Shipmate
# 2734
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Posted
A good episode. Considering the episode was written by two of the top Dr Who writers I expected a little more, but enjoyed it.
Picking up on guilt was interesting. You can have guilt for many reasons, and of course the situation might put an intrusive thought of robbing the bank in your head. Just because you feel guilt and have thoughts about robbing the bank doesn't mean you intend to, but it worked well as plot device
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I have never done this trick in these trousers before.
Posts: 1887 | From: london | Registered: Apr 2002
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Smudgie
Ship's Barnacle
# 2716
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Posted
Ariel, your thinking sounded exactly like mine during that episode, which I greatly enjoyed. The four walking in a diamond formation to con their way into a bank and the use of slightly slow-motion walking also reminded me of Hustle, for some reason.
It felt quite a novel approach to Dr Who which I quite liked.
I was watching it with the boy and my favourite moment was when the Teller suddenly appeared and there was a squeal and a judder of surprise from the sofa alongside me - reminded me of the moments when I used to suddenly hide behind the sofa!
This series has revived my love of Doctor Who.
My mind was linking the word "guilt" with the word "gilt" - not sure whether that was intended.
[ 21. September 2014, 13:15: Message edited by: Smudgie ]
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Miss you, Erin.
Posts: 14382 | From: Under the duvet | Registered: Apr 2002
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Utterly inconsequential.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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M.
Ship's Spare Part
# 3291
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Posted
I really enjoyed it, although I guessed the twist, but not why.
The time went very quickly. I am really enjoying this series. Not that I didn't enjoy David Tennant and Matt Smith but somehow this feels like real Doctor Who.
M.
Posts: 2303 | From: Lurking in Surrey | Registered: Sep 2002
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
Really rather silly. What was it about - saving a species? With only two survivors that species is dead. The big twist was obvious; what isn't clear is why he would ever bother to behave like this. 4/10
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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Paul.
Shipmate
# 37
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Posted
Easily my favourite for this series. But then as I said I do like a heist story. Yes it was predictable but that didn't bother me, it was done with such confidence that I enjoyed it anyway.
Oh and I think Capaldi was his best so far in this. For the first time both the darkness and the comedy were working. (Not blaming him but very little of the humour has been landing for me up til now.)
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Utterly inconsequential.
Might be why I liked it. I've found too much recent Doctor Who takes itself way too seriously.
Posts: 3689 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2004
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
I just found that I wasn't given any reason to care about these characters or invest in their success. And now that I've seen what else has come from the same writer, I realise why. It's all plot, exciting plot, and no character.
Don't get me wrong, the opening was VERY cool, but after a while I felt that all I was going to get was cool things.
I also didn't like the direction. Too flashy. And, as one review observed, the choice to use heavily coloured lighting in the corridors just drew your attention to the corridors when they were trying to distract you from the fact they were quite boring corridors.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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The Great Gumby
Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
There was one point where I was very much reminded that the creator of the series also wrote Sherlock, when he was telling everyone to shut up. That was much more Cumberbatch, but another brilliant anarchic, sometimes questionable hero figure.
Yes, this. Although "Shuttitty-uttitty up up up" was more in the line of Malcolm Tucker as rewritten for family viewing.
I wasn't sure at first, but I liked it. Interesting ideas, the sudden launch kept the pace high enough that you were never spending too long asking why they were doing this, or how it had been arranged, the twists were possible to guess at without being glaringly obvious, and it all came together in a neat package at the end.
Like many time travel stories, it fell into the Terminator Paradox of circular causation where everything was caused by something that hadn't happened yet, and which only happened because of what was happening now. But unlike the Pandorica drivel, it was done with enough flair and misdirection that it worked, which it generally will if you don't draw attention to it by (say) using it to resolve an entire cliffhanger. Style over substance isn't always good, but when you can't help a shortage of substance due to the nature of the genre, style is essential to mask it.
More on the Doctor's slightly amended moral code - he was very glad to leave people to die when there seemed to be no alternative (Psi, Saibra and the guy who had his brain sucked out at the start), but also went back to rescue people when it seemed hopeless. Very analytical pragmatism, random impulse or lazy writing? Hard to say. But I don't think he's quite as high-minded as the rhetoric of Tennant and Smith would indicate. (We can also argue about whether their actions stand up to their own principles.)
This series is hitting a sweet spot for me. Capaldi's offering a much-needed taste of something different, and I say that as someone who really liked Matt Smith. I hope I still feel the same once he properly settles down as a character, which I gather is still a couple of weeks away.
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The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman
A letter to my son about death
Posts: 5382 | From: Home for shot clergy spouses | Registered: Feb 2006
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
I also didn't like the direction. Too flashy. And, as one review observed, the choice to use heavily coloured lighting in the corridors just drew your attention to the corridors when they were trying to distract you from the fact they were quite boring corridors.
They're very Classic Who corridors, harking back to those low-budget days.
It was a bank, after all. Bank architecture isn't usually wildly exciting with interesting corridors.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
If I got it right the bank had to be abandoned because a solar flare was burning up the planet? So why would you build the most exclusive bank in the universe in such an exposed spot?
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
It was a bank, after all. Bank architecture isn't usually wildly exciting with interesting corridors.
Yes, but what bothered me most about the corridors was how darn wide they were. For an area that was supposedly forbidden and basically never used, that was a lot of corridor space.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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M.
Ship's Spare Part
# 3291
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Posted
I assumed the wide corridors and unfeasibly easy and convenient ventilation shafts were a tip of the hat towards old-fashioned Who (and every other science fiction programme, probably).
I thought it was a good, scary, fun romp. Like most of the rest of this season so far.
M.
Posts: 2303 | From: Lurking in Surrey | Registered: Sep 2002
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
It was a bank, after all. Bank architecture isn't usually wildly exciting with interesting corridors.
Yes, but what bothered me most about the corridors was how darn wide they were. For an area that was supposedly forbidden and basically never used, that was a lot of corridor space.
Well okay, for all we know, the bank might have had some kind of trucks or large trolleys coming along that way with the ill-gotten gains from some heist or ancient treasure trove. A vault could potentially contain quite large and heavy items.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
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Posted
orfeo: quote:
Yes, but what bothered me most about the corridors was how darn wide they were. For an area that was supposedly forbidden and basically never used, that was a lot of corridor space.
Wait - you expect architecture to make *sense*?!
Perhaps the building regulations on that planet require extra-wide corridors to accommodate bank employees from the planet Zarg, who think of humans as midgets.
Or the architect put a decimal point in the wrong place on the plans and nobody noticed until it was too late.
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
Further to the trolleys, if you'd just arrived from Waystar with a whole bunch of Forerunner artifacts to deposit at the bank, it might make sense to pack them into a space capsule and pilot that along the uninteresting corridor (which would temporarily become interesting* by virtue of the cargo being propelled along it). Depending on how many artifacts you'd looted you might need several space capsules, complete with space cannons, to do this simultaneously for security reasons. Once you've mounted a space cannon on your space capsule, you begin to see why the corridors need to be that wide.
* You can't expect a corridor to be interesting 24 hours a day. That would be unfair.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
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Posted
*highfive* to Ariel; another Andre Norton fan here.
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Folks, the episode specifically EXPLAINED how things got to and from the vault. And it wasn't the corridors.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
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Posted
Depends how much money you are depositing with them, surely?
And just because the scriptwriters always have aliens of more-or-less human size for budgetary reasons doesn't mean there can't be bigger ones out there - like the star whales in 'The Beast Below.'
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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The Rogue
Shipmate
# 2275
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Posted
If the walls at the edge of the corridors were supporting walls then why fill the space?
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If everyone starts thinking outside the box does outside the box come back inside?
Posts: 2507 | From: Toton | Registered: Feb 2002
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Twangist
Shipmate
# 16208
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Posted
The Teller was very much a space minotaur initally wasn't he?
What happened to the quest to find Gallifrey which looked like it was going to start at the end of the 50th anniv special?
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JJ
SDG
blog
Posts: 604 | From: Devon | Registered: Feb 2011
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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7
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Posted
I'm not going to lie, I thought it was dismal.
It bothers me that every episode this series has been about the Doctor in some way. Rather than about anything else at all.
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Narcissism.
Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Twangist:
What happened to the quest to find Gallifrey which looked like it was going to start at the end of the 50th anniv special?
I keep telling myself that those equations the Doctor scribbles on the chalkboard are part of his effort to locate Gallifrey and/or calculate a way into the other dimension that it is hidden in. That way I can pretend that he IS looking for it without the current story necessarily saying anything about it.
As a long-time Doctor Who fan, I have developed an almost infinite capacity for self-delusion.
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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
There was an odd moment nearly at the end that no one has commented on yet, when the Doctor said something like, "I took her to rob a bank - let's see if a first date can compete with that!". It suggests to me that he is jealous of Danny, and arranged the whole thing to make him seem dull in Clara's eyes. In which case, I feel it's a bit creepy, and romance is being pushed back in again. What did the rest of you make of it?
And on the whole I agree with Wood.
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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JonahMan
Shipmate
# 12126
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Posted
I've seen a couple of episodes from this series (Robin/Robot Hood and the Heist one), not having watched any Dr Who for decades. They felt very much like old-style Who to me (e.g. Tom Baker) rather than the more modern ones (which I haven't seen but have read a little about). Anyway I quite enjoyed them, though the monsters didn't seem anywhere near as scary as they did when I were a nipper!
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Thank God for the aged
And old age itself, and illness and the grave
For when you're old, or ill and particularly in the coffin
It's no trouble to behave
Posts: 914 | From: Planet Zog | Registered: Dec 2006
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Dormouse
Glis glis – Ship's rodent
# 5954
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
There was an odd moment nearly at the end that no one has commented on yet, when the Doctor said something like, "I took her to rob a bank - let's see if a first date can compete with that!". It suggests to me that he is jealous of Danny, and arranged the whole thing to make him seem dull in Clara's eyes. In which case, I feel it's a bit creepy, and romance is being pushed back in again. What did the rest of you make of it?
And on the whole I agree with Wood.
I heard that and wondered a little...I don't think (she says with fingers crossed) that romance will be brought in between the Doctor and Clara...While I have nothing against big age gaps, somehow it would seem too "wrong" to have the Doctor fancying Clara.
I suppose one can be jealous of another's relationship with yet another without it being about Romance. Maybe the Doctor just wants to be the Most Important Person in Clara's life without it being about Romance. Or, knowing he needs a companion, he doesn't want Clar to waltz off into the sunset with Danny. Or it's a set up for an "Anything you can do I can do better" scenario between the Doctor and Danny as they both try to outdo each other to impress Clara. I don't know,but I hope it's not Romance. Too 'creepy" for my tastes in this regeneration package.
P.S. Still not sure I like this Doctor. I really, really want to, but it's not quite gelling for me.
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40 days, 40 reflections, 40 acts of generosity. Join the #40acts challenge for #Lent and let's start a movement. www.40acts.org.uk
Posts: 3042 | From: 'twixt les Bois Noirs & Les Monts de la Madeleine | Registered: May 2004
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Starbug
Shipmate
# 15917
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Posted
The tank holding the Teller reminded me of the 456 (the monster in Torchwood that wants to take the children). Both tanks were filled with a murky liquid that only revealed part of the monster inside. The difference was that I don't think we ever fully saw the 456. It seemed strange to have such a deliberate reference back to a Torchwood episode that starred Peter Capaldi.
I also liked the reference to Hustle.
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“Oh the pointing again. They're screwdrivers! What are you going to do? Assemble a cabinet at them?” ― The Day of the Doctor
Posts: 1189 | From: West of the New Forest | Registered: Sep 2010
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Heavenly Anarchist
Shipmate
# 13313
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
There was an odd moment nearly at the end that no one has commented on yet, when the Doctor said something like, "I took her to rob a bank - let's see if a first date can compete with that!". It suggests to me that he is jealous of Danny, and arranged the whole thing to make him seem dull in Clara's eyes. In which case, I feel it's a bit creepy, and romance is being pushed back in again. What did the rest of you make of it?
And on the whole I agree with Wood.
I don't think it is romance, I think it is jealousy as Dormouse suggests. And perhaps also mixed with paternalism, as when he was in her flat and suggested he was there to check up on her. He is, of course, much older than her and somewhat egotistical so paternalism would fit. In some ways this is a return to the older Doctors, he reminds me of my first Doctor, Jon Pertwee.
I enjoyed this episode, if felt like an old skool scary one of my childhood.
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'I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.' Douglas Adams
Dog Activity Monitor
My shop
Posts: 2831 | From: Trumpington | Registered: Jan 2008
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The Great Gumby
Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Heavenly Anarchist:
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
There was an odd moment nearly at the end that no one has commented on yet, when the Doctor said something like, "I took her to rob a bank - let's see if a first date can compete with that!". It suggests to me that he is jealous of Danny, and arranged the whole thing to make him seem dull in Clara's eyes. In which case, I feel it's a bit creepy, and romance is being pushed back in again. What did the rest of you make of it?
And on the whole I agree with Wood.
I don't think it is romance, I think it is jealousy as Dormouse suggests. And perhaps also mixed with paternalism, as when he was in her flat and suggested he was there to check up on her. He is, of course, much older than her and somewhat egotistical so paternalism would fit. In some ways this is a return to the older Doctors, he reminds me of my first Doctor, Jon Pertwee.
I enjoyed this episode, if felt like an old skool scary one of my childhood.
Jealousy possibly, but also a degree of arrogance. We saw how he got on (or rather didn't) with Robin Hood. The two factors there were jealousy of Clara's infatuation and (I think more significantly) wounded pride that his confident dismissal of Robin's existence was being thrown back at him with an annoying smug grin. It's a challenge to his ego to be proven wrong, or even found less interesting than someone else.
As for the whole finding Gallifrey thing, I think it's now well-established that the Doctor goes off and does things on his own without us seeing, even for hundreds of years at a time. As it would be both clumsy and tedious to tie everything he does to this fabled quest (which is really more about holding out the possibility of return if it becomes convenient), I'm not losing any sleep over it.
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The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman
A letter to my son about death
Posts: 5382 | From: Home for shot clergy spouses | Registered: Feb 2006
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Wood:
I'm not going to lie, I thought it was dismal.
It bothers me that every episode this series has been about the Doctor in some way. Rather than about anything else at all.
It's been a complete yawn-fest, this series, for me.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Erik
Shipmate
# 11406
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Great Gumby:
As for the whole finding Gallifrey thing, I think it's now well-established that the Doctor goes off and does things on his own without us seeing, even for hundreds of years at a time.
Yes I agree. Did anyone else notice that in one of the earlier episodes of this series the Doctor introduced himself as being 2000 years old. I think when it was David Tennent it 900-odd and Matt Smith might have said something around 1000-and-something. I wonder if the time gap between Smith and Capaldi is going to be used later or if it was just a throw away line.
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One day I will think of something worth saying here.
Posts: 96 | From: Leeds, UK | Registered: May 2006
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Erik:
I wonder if the time gap between Smith and Capaldi is going to be used later or if it was just a throw away line.
Matt Smith was in Time of the Doctor long enough for him to die of old age (outliving several generations of children). I think that's sufficient explanation for the time gap.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Starbug:
The tank holding the Teller reminded me of the 456 (the monster in Torchwood that wants to take the children). Both tanks were filled with a murky liquid that only revealed part of the monster inside. The difference was that I don't think we ever fully saw the 456. It seemed strange to have such a deliberate reference back to a Torchwood episode that starred Peter Capaldi.
I also liked the reference to Hustle.
The Teller vaguely reminded me of the Garm from Terminus for some reason.
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
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Justinian
Shipmate
# 5357
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hugal:
A good episode. Considering the episode was written by two of the top Dr Who writers I expected a little more, but enjoyed it.
Bwuh? Moffatt, yes (for good and ill). But Thompson?
Thompson's Who-credits are The Curse of the Black Spot (high point: Amy Pond in a pirate's hat) and Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS (decent filler at best). His Sherlock credits are The Blind Banker (worst Sherlock episode) and The Reichenbach Fall (clever - but the emotional investment was set up by the other stories).
I was expecting absolutely nothing from the episode and assumed that Moffatt's name was due to a re-write. I was pleasantly surprised by decently entertaining filler.
And Wood's put his finger on what's wrong with Moffatt's Who in general. For all the Doctor claims everyone matters, I don't read the sexism into Moffatt that others do. The Bedchel fails are because (other than Blink), Moffatt's Who is much more Doctor-centric than the RTD era - with it most clearly seen in A Good Man Goes To War where the doctor took centre stage despite the emotional core being Rory, Amy, and to an extent River.
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My real name consists of just four letters, but in billions of combinations.
Eudaimonaic Laughter - my blog.
Posts: 3926 | From: The Sea Coast of Bohemia | Registered: Dec 2003
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Heavenly Anarchist:
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
There was an odd moment nearly at the end that no one has commented on yet, when the Doctor said something like, "I took her to rob a bank - let's see if a first date can compete with that!". It suggests to me that he is jealous of Danny, and arranged the whole thing to make him seem dull in Clara's eyes. In which case, I feel it's a bit creepy, and romance is being pushed back in again. What did the rest of you make of it?
And on the whole I agree with Wood.
I don't think it is romance, I think it is jealousy as Dormouse suggests. And perhaps also mixed with paternalism, as when he was in her flat and suggested he was there to check up on her. He is, of course, much older than her and somewhat egotistical so paternalism would fit. In some ways this is a return to the older Doctors, he reminds me of my first Doctor, Jon Pertwee.
I enjoyed this episode, if felt like an old skool scary one of my childhood.
It reminded me of Pertwee and also of the very few Trougton ones I'd seen.
Jealously is the most likely explanation. Although there was that whole bit with 10 and Sarah Jane about the Doctor never going back to see his campions once they'd left because he couldn't deal with the fact they'd die, it's also possible that he couldn't deal with the fact that they left, put down roots and got on with their lives.
The Doctor always travelled on, sometimes with a new campion. Sometimes not. And without roots or permanent relationships. I wonder if that's what he's jealous of. The fact that Clara could love Danny more than travelling with him and leave.
Of course, I could be over thinking this and it's just a plot device. ![[Biased]](wink.gif) But you do get the impression that the Doctor really doesn't want Clara to get together with Danny.
Tubbs
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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
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doubtingthomas
Shipmate
# 14498
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Posted
Going back to the top...apologies for lateness...
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
I liked the way the Doctor ran out of breath and had to stop, instead of belting on down the corridor outrunning everyone....
Allegedly, Mrs Capaldi asked Moffat not to break her husband... ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
quote:
And unconvinced by the sudden reappearance of Psi and Saibra, claiming that the "atomic shredder" was actually a "teleport"
Yes, that was a bit weird. The revelation that the device was a teleport (after apparently establishing again that the Doctor can deal with the death of people he can't/thinks he can't save) seemed a bit of a cop-out, and especially after that annoying moment of thinking you have an atomic lock you can't break, you have an atomic shredder - so What's The Problem??
quote:
At times the Doctor reminded me also very much of Hartnell and Pertwee.
I love the way there are hints of a whole lot of previous doctors woven into the performance (without it being any less original).
quote:
Originally posted by The Great Gumby:
More on the Doctor's slightly amended moral code - he was very glad to leave people to die when there seemed to be no alternative (Psi, Saibra and the guy who had his brain sucked out at the start), but also went back to rescue people when it seemed hopeless. Very analytical pragmatism, random impulse or lazy writing? Hard to say. But I don't think he's quite as high-minded as the rhetoric of Tennant and Smith would indicate. (We can also argue about whether their actions stand up to their own principles.)
I don't think that his moral code as such has changed as how he deals with it. Less grand talk, certainly (I agree what you say about actions and principles), but something that seems more honest (even if it is probably just another front). I still read his coolness as pragmatic detachment; it does not seem random, and it is too new, sudden, and consistent to be sloppy writing. He is not *glad* to leave people to die, but he will do it.
In this case, I think he may have known anyway - he clearly retained some of his memory - he thought of the Tardis - so he may well recognize a piece of tech even if he can't remember putting it there. "Exit strategy" seems to be an apt description of a teleportation device...
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This series is hitting a sweet spot for me. Capaldi's offering a much-needed taste of something different, and I say that as someone who really liked Matt Smith.
Snap! ![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif)
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Originally posted by Erik:
Did anyone else notice that in one of the earlier episodes of this series the Doctor introduced himself as being 2000 years old. I think when it was David Tennent it 900-odd and Matt Smith might have said something around 1000-and-something. I wonder if the time gap between Smith and Capaldi is going to be used later or if it was just a throw away line.
Pertwee already said "several thousand years"...surely, either the Doctor lies about his age or he has forgotten! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
[ 25. September 2014, 22:26: Message edited by: doubtingthomas ]
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'We are star-stuff. We are the Universe made manifest, trying to figure itself out'
Delenn (Babylon 5)
Posts: 266 | From: A Small Island | Registered: Jan 2009
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Heavenly Anarchist
Shipmate
# 13313
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
It reminded me of Pertwee and also of the very few Trougton ones I'd seen.
Jealously is the most likely explanation. Although there was that whole bit with 10 and Sarah Jane about the Doctor never going back to see his campions once they'd left because he couldn't deal with the fact they'd die, it's also possible that he couldn't deal with the fact that they left, put down roots and got on with their lives.
The Doctor always travelled on, sometimes with a new campion. Sometimes not. And without roots or permanent relationships. I wonder if that's what he's jealous of. The fact that Clara could love Danny more than travelling with him and leave.
Of course, I could be over thinking this and it's just a plot device. But you do get the impression that the Doctor really doesn't want Clara to get together with Danny.
Tubbs
No, I agree with you. I think this Doctor is actually quite vulnerable under his cool, uncaring appearance. He is putting up a hard shell.
Though as you say, to misquote Eddie the shipboard computer in Hitchhikers, we might just be calculating his personality defects to 10 decimal places
NB I like the idea that he is travelling with a Campion especially with the roots
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'I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.' Douglas Adams
Dog Activity Monitor
My shop
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Erik
Shipmate
# 11406
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Posted
I am another who thinks that the Doctor's new detachment to people dying is more about a pragmatic approach of getting on with things rather than lacking emotion. I though his reaction when he found out the augmented-human and mutant-human (sorry, I can't remember their names) were actually alive. He seemed almost giddy of a moment.
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One day I will think of something worth saying here.
Posts: 96 | From: Leeds, UK | Registered: May 2006
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
HA: quote:
NB I like the idea that he is travelling with a Campion especially with the roots.
I wish he was travelling with Albert Campion; that would be a very interesting combination!
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Why does jealousy have to be romantic, necessarily? It can just be the product of worrying that you are going to lose your place with someone-- wherever that is.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Why does jealousy have to be romantic, necessarily? It can just be the product of worrying that you are going to lose your place with someone-- wherever that is.
True. In some ways, it hearkens back to the Pertwee Doctor, who was decidedly put out when Jo decided to get married to a brilliant but unconventional scientist. The ending of "The One With The Maggots"* is one of the most poignant of the old series, with the Doctor sneaking out of Jo's engagement party and driving off alone.
*Sorry. Blanking on the real name.
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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
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The Rogue
Shipmate
# 2275
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Posted
Green Death.
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If everyone starts thinking outside the box does outside the box come back inside?
Posts: 2507 | From: Toton | Registered: Feb 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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I like Hedgehog's name better. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
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ArachnidinElmet
Shipmate
# 17346
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Posted
It reminded me in tone and plot more of an episode of Farscape.
Posts: 1887 | From: the rhubarb triangle | Registered: Sep 2012
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rosa Winkel:
Sounds like an upbeat Friends episode.
Exactly.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
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Palimpsest
Shipmate
# 16772
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by JonahMan:
Anyway I quite enjoyed them, though the monsters didn't seem anywhere near as scary as they did when I were a nipper!
It's not you, the sofas have gotten smaller.
Posts: 2990 | From: Seattle WA. US | Registered: Nov 2011
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Just watched The Caretaker. Loved it. For one thing, it was HILARIOUS! I haven't laughed out loud that much for quite a while.
And in general they weren't 'cheap' jokes, they were character-driven and character-conflict driven. I loved the way Danny was written.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
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