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Originally posted by RooK:
I didn't explain in graphic detail what the differences were? Does this look like T'n'T to you? Let me just mention these: We could could have vigorous penetrative sex while I was driving. More generally, though, was the fact that I could support her entire weight with one arm. This will have to be sufficient for even your plainly meagre imagination.

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Originally posted by RooK:
We could could have vigorous penetrative sex while I was driving.

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Originally posted by RooK:

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Originally posted by ananke:
That may be, but you didn't answer my question as to exactly what changes. I've gone from healthy to obese (by the BMI) and nowt has changed, so either you were going for very obese women, or didn't have the mechanics down pat.

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We could could have vigorous penetrative sex while I was driving.

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(judicious edit by Anselmina)

Hey ananke, you could be on to a good thing here. He doesn't make that offer to just anyone you know....

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Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!

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Originally posted by Flausa:
Kelly, I completely understand the attraction to my husband. I'm just offended you don't think he married me because he thought I was a sexy Nautilus machine.

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Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
So the lucky Perfect Specimens toss around the word "obese" innocently meaning "somebody who is manifestly grossly overweight" when it might not mean that in a lot of people's minds.

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Originally posted by ananke:
That's more than enough detail. Particularly the thought of someone driving whilst having sex. *shudder* Not a good thing. Not to mention both of those things are not bound by skinniness - I probably could do the first, but choose safety instead, and since my husband happens to have a fair bit of muscle, can do the second. I also happen to be close to 100kg.

My poor imagination, so limited by safety, sanity and muscular men...

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Originally posted by RooK:
Because, if you had, you'd probably realize that in addition to being able to support someone during such a vigorous activity force-wise, it is also necessary to be able to wrap the arm most of the way around the waist. So, unless you've married a orangutan, it makes me suspect you are just being contrary.

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Originally posted by ananke:
I'm not convinced your average tool knows enough to be supported in telling fat people they're fat.

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Originally posted by RooK:
That's not all I was saying, duchess. And that particular piece you've focused on is mostly about my cynicism regarding human interactions. Do you really need me to explain my logic underlying that particular sentiment again?

Don't you ever get tired of oversimplifying everything until it's meaningless? No, wait - I forgot: you voted for Dubya. Twice.

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Originally posted by duchess:
It is amazing how much you protest this and shrill you get when I point out the obvious with little effort. It is the crux of what you have been saying here all along. Hope that is better.

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Originally posted by duchess:
Hello, he was saying "While some may say they prefer fatter chicks, if given the chance, they would choose a skinnier one, unless they are less attractive and can only attract fatter chicks."

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Originally posted by RooK:
It's frustrating for me, philosophically, because I know what works for me really doesn't work for most people. So I don't know what could possibly be done to achieve a generally healthier society. I guess, the most I can hope for on this thread is to talk with you guys, to find out what might work for you. Maybe we can find something that's a beginning of a trend we could encourage?

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Originally posted by RooK:
...It's frustrating for me, philosophically, because I know what works for me really doesn't work for most people. So I don't know what could possibly be done to achieve a generally healthier society. I guess, the most I can hope for on this thread is to talk with you guys, to find out what might work for you. Maybe we can find something that's a beginning of a trend we could encourage?

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Originally posted by RooK:
And you think that one statement is central to my input on this thread, why?

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Originally posted by ananke:
That all aside, I'm lucky. I'm healthy enough to do what I want, mobile enough that I can go do aqua-aerobics and smart enough to not give up and go along with the rest of the world in thinking I'm a helpless, useless lardo. It could very easily be much worse.

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Originally posted by duchess:
Because I think it what pissed a lot of people off.
Go ahead and dodge the question. But you and I both know what the answer is.

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Originally posted by RooK:
Seems like it's mostly the smug bastards who look on overeating as something that people aren't helpless about, and that leads to thinking unkind thoughts. And it's the people who view it as helpless that are at risk of just succumbing to it, or are enablers.

It sort of makes sense, if you follow my backward-seeming reasoning there.

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Originally posted by RooK:
No kidding, Kelly. I guess I should have been more cognizant of terminology and clarified that much of what I was arguing was not meant to be viewing people in the same way that fashion magazines do.

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I suspect that you have simply never experienced the level of flack you can attract, and at what a low level that flack can start. (Often, as Ananke says, it starts not because you are fat but because you are the wrong shape). So yes, there are plenty of us who are hyper-aware and hyper-sensitive of implied or intended slights.

The story I told earlier about pregnancy, for instance. Perfectly presentable and attractive girls become a bit thick round the middle due to not-yet-obvious pregnancy, and suddenly they find waiting staff treating them with a barely concealed sneer because they order dessert.

I wasn't fat as a girl. I was, unfortunately, a short, sturdy person from a long line of short, sturdy people. No amount of starvation (and believe me, I tried it) will ever make me elfin, or delicate, or apt to attract the sort of man who wants to pick his women up with one hand. I also, like Ananke, developed large breasts at an age when girls are 'supposed' to be leggy and coltish. And, although not at that age overweight at all, I was routinely called fat, not just by fellow schoolchildren, but by PE teachers and other adults who, frankly, should damn well have known better. I vividly remember asking in a certain chain store whether a particular blouse came in a size 14 (I think a US size 12) and the skinny, adult assistant telling me with unconcealed contempt "God, no, we don't carry outsize here, you'd better go somewhere else" and going home in tears. (This was not just bad business - I still avoid that shop to this day - it was an outright lie. 14 is a perfectly normal size and they do carry it. It was, in fact, just deliberate cruelty.)

The point of this sob story isn't to fish for sympathy in Hell ( ), though it is partly to illustrate why illconsidered statements can easily be hurtful to people who've had a bellyful of disdain. But more than that, I think these attitudes are getting worse, and that partly because of the insistent publicity about the 'obesity epidemic', and the government's desperation to be seen as doing something about it with shaming policies like the one described in the OP. The sort of cruelty that happens anyway, as I described, is actually being legitimised.

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It's a matter of food and available blood. If motherhood is sacred, put your money where your mouth is. Only then can you expect the coming down to the wrecked & shimmering earth of that miracle you sing about. [Margaret Atwood]

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Originally posted by RooK:
It's frustrating for me, philosophically, because I know what works for me really doesn't work for most people. So I don't know what could possibly be done to achieve a generally healthier society. I guess, the most I can hope for on this thread is to talk with you guys, to find out what might work for you. Maybe we can find something that's a beginning of a trend we could encourage?

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Originally posted by Gort:
There's only one thing that works for me as a motivator for losing weight. It may be simplistic, but I have to focus attention on the "feel good" factors of more energy, better sleep, higher sensitivity to stimulus, increased concentration and ambition. Every little bump in awareness needs to be noticed for the benefit it is, otherwise it's all pissing in the wind. There has to be positive personal feedback.

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Originally posted by CrookedCucumber:
So unless people get an obvious and tangible benefit from maintaining reasonable weight, most people aren't going to be able to, whatever facilties for exercise, etc., are provided. Of course, there will always be a few freaks who either (i) don't like to eat or (ii) like to eat but don't gain weight because of some metabolic problem; but for nearly everybody else weight control is bloody hard work, and needs to be rewarded.

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Originally posted by Iole Nui:

But more than that, I think these attitudes are getting worse, and that partly because of the insistent publicity about the 'obesity epidemic', and the government's desperation to be seen as doing something about it with shaming policies like the one described in the OP. The sort of cruelty that happens anyway, as I described, is actually being legitimised.

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Originally posted by RooK:

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Originally posted by duchess:
Because I think it what pissed a lot of people off.
Go ahead and dodge the question. But you and I both know what the answer is.

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Sure, it pissed a lot of people off. Why does that automatically make it my primary idea? Answer my fucking question please, madame one-tiny-thought-at-a-time.

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Originally posted by Iole Nui:
I'm sorry, but that is not what you said at all. You said:

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Indeed, I suspect that most who proclaim to have high regard for blobular shapes are going to have a pretty high correlation with those who have little hope of attracting anything else.

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Indeed I did. And I deserve some wrath for it.
Especially since I think that I still stand by it. What can I say? I'm a craven cynic, with a low opinion of humanity.

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Originally posted by Twilight:
That's what offends me. It's this belief that we, any of us, have the right to comment on another person's body size.

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