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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Eccles: Incense and thuribles
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Comper's Child
Shipmate
# 10580
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Posted
Sand in the bottom? I guess they'll be doing very gentle swings in that case...
I'd eliminate the sand if I were you and count on the liner. If there's a lot of space below that you could fill it with some wadded up aluminum foil.
Just be aware that that shiny finish will be darkened as it's used and it will need regular polishing.
Posts: 2509 | From: Penn's Greene Countrie Towne | Registered: Oct 2005
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moveable_type
Shipmate
# 9673
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oreophagite:
Our church has received the gift of a brand-new brass thurible. The rector would like to use it next year on Christmas Eve. This gives him a year to figure out how to do so - I think he's clueless. But, that is his problem.
My challenge will be to find and train a thurifer between now and then, and this thread has been quite useful. It also has some good information on how to take care of the thurible.
But I don't think it has any tips on how to break in a brand new thurible. This one is shiny brass, not very heavy. I put some sand in the bottom, and have lined the inside removable bowl with heavy duty aluminum foil. I will fire it up a few times and practice outdoors myself. Is there anything else I should do?
Honestly? I'd find the nearest place that uses incense frequently, then find an ancient acolyte who has been around that place forever, and ask him for lessons. Buying him lunch may be part of the package.
Posts: 1062 | From: Toronto | Registered: Jul 2005
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Oreophagite
Shipmate
# 10534
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Posted
Maybe some rocks to give it some weight, then. It can't have cost a fortune. It does have the 4 chains, disc, etc., but it isn't made of heavy metal.
The interior bowl is quite shallow.
If it is used, I think we will be the only place in town that has incense on Christmas Eve. So, I'm not sure whom to ask for one-on-one instruction.
Posts: 247 | From: The Klipoth | Registered: Oct 2005
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PD
Shipmate
# 12436
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Max.:
Made the same journey as you then (CofE to RC) and I can sympathise with you re: Altar Serving.
However I'd love to know your opinion: Is serving in the Catholic Church less stressful than serving in the Anglican Church for you?
I find it so as the Anglican places I served at were very fussy when it came to ceremonial and "doing it right", Catholic places tend to have more of an attitude of "Just get on with it" which I find is actually a lot more prayerful than just following the instructions given to you in a rehearsal by a fierce angry MC.
Max.
In my experience of serving, there was a difference in attitude between Shrines, run of the mill conservative A-C places, and everywhere else.
Shrines are a pain in the backside as there is always someone there marking you out of 10 against Fortescue ot whatever it is they use. It is made worse by the fact they usually make complete nuisences of themselves by explaining in elaborate detail afterwards how you should have done it. Usually I did not have an idea what the hell they were on about anyway.
Run of the Mill A-C places like you to get it right, but no-one is going to rip you a new arsehole of you make a small mistake. OTOH, everything such a well greased routine that it is difficult to foul it up anyway. You might get some good natured ribbing in the Sacristy afterwards, but nothing annoying/embarrassing.
Everywhere else seems to work on the principle of "no harm; no foul." In other words, it has to be a really egregious cock up which everyone notices before anyone gets bent out of shape, and you nearly have to burn the church down before anyone actually gets cross with you.
PD
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Roadkill on the Information Super Highway!
My Assorted Rantings - http://www.theoldhighchurchman.blogspot.com
Posts: 4431 | From: Between a Rock and a Hard Place | Registered: Mar 2007
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angelicum
Shipmate
# 13515
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Posted
Max - it's not just the Anglicans who can seem overfussy. Most traddie RCs are like their mainstream counterparts, but the odd princess here and there creeps up as well. One particular comment on what appeared to me to be photographs of a beautiful Solemn High Mass featured on the NLM blog - one particular server should have matched the soles of his shoes with the other servers, it was dark brown soles (though a perfectly respectable looking black lace-up pair of shoes), while the soles of everyone else's footwear were black.
Posts: 364 | From: Full in the panting heart | Registered: Mar 2008
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FCB
Hillbilly Thomist
# 1495
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hart:
Never come and serve in our Mother Church then! One of our regular MCs was banned from continuing in the role by his heart doctor as he got too stressed out by it all.
Having served once as deacon at your Mother Church (I presume you mean the Basilica of the Sacred Heart), I can attest that it has some of the most stressed-out MCs I've ever seen. Also one of the most, um, helpful sacristy teams I've seen: I got so much help dressing I felt like I was about to have an audience with the great and powerful Oz. But the liturgy was well-done, so I guess that's the price you pay.
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Agent of the Inquisition since 1982.
Posts: 2928 | From: that city in "The Wire" | Registered: Oct 2001
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Comper's Child
Shipmate
# 10580
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by angelicum:
Max - it's not just the Anglicans who can seem overfussy. Most traddie RCs are like their mainstream counterparts, but the odd princess here and there creeps up as well. One particular comment on what appeared to me to be photographs of a beautiful Solemn High Mass featured on the NLM blog - one particular server should have matched the soles of his shoes with the other servers, it was dark brown soles (though a perfectly respectable looking black lace-up pair of shoes), while the soles of everyone else's footwear were black.
Oh, the comments at NLM are more than entertaining...
![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif)
Posts: 2509 | From: Penn's Greene Countrie Towne | Registered: Oct 2005
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chiltern_hundred
Shipmate
# 13659
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Posted
I was told by one venerable lady at my place of worship that they had, some years ago, an absolute martinet of a head server who would inspect the soles of servers' shoes before mass and kept a tin of boot black ready in case they weren't dark enough.
The abolition of that sort of rubbish has been one of the benefits of women servers.
quote:
Originally posted by angelicum:
Max - it's not just the Anglicans who can seem overfussy. Most traddie RCs are like their mainstream counterparts, but the odd princess here and there creeps up as well. One particular comment on what appeared to me to be photographs of a beautiful Solemn High Mass featured on the NLM blog - one particular server should have matched the soles of his shoes with the other servers, it was dark brown soles (though a perfectly respectable looking black lace-up pair of shoes), while the soles of everyone else's footwear were black.
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"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." - Galileo Galilei
Posts: 691 | From: Duck City, UK | Registered: Apr 2008
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Canute the Holy
Shipmate
# 9394
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Posted
Time to bump from page 10...
I'm planning vespers for this week-end, and as we will be using incense I just wanted to check the correct usage...
Is it correct to have the alter incensed during the Magnificat?
Posts: 183 | From: Sweden | Registered: Apr 2005
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seasick
...over the edge
# 48
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Posted
Yes and the officiant, choir clergy (if any), choir and congregation.
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We believe there is, and always was, in every Christian Church, ... an outward priesthood, ordained by Jesus Christ, and an outward sacrifice offered therein. - John Wesley
Posts: 5769 | From: A world of my own | Registered: May 2001
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
macasher posted these on an adjacent thread:
quote:
In our church (backstreet catholic), the apostolic chain of thurifers has been broken, so now we don't know what we're doing. Could we have some advice, please? There is plenty of smoke but the wonderful fragrance of the incense is quickly overtaken by what seems like burnt tar. I thought it was the accumulation of black on the top of the thurible, but cleaning it hasn't made much difference. We've tried using more or less charcoal and more or less incense without much effect. Any ideas.
This is my virgin post, so if I've missed a previous thread, please direct me to it.
quote:
Many thanks for the welcome and the advice.
As far as I can tell from the previous thread, it's best to clean the thurible every time with polyclens, to use Kingsford charcoal, and to experiment with different kinds of incense.
What's the function of the top of the thurible? Is there such a thing as a simple open-top censer to minimise the unwelcome tar blow-back?
macasher, there are three ingredients: the metal container, the coals, and the incense.
I'm not sure what this black-tar smell is that you describe, but cleaning the thurible after every use isn't going to fix things. Either the thurible at its inaugural use wasn't clean, the coals by themselves give off this rank smell, or and most likely, your incense is rank.
Perhaps you are using too many coals? If they are of the quick-light variety then the accelerant that gets them lighted quickly smells bad by itself. A heavy hand with the incense spoon or fewer coals is the answer.
The lids is designed to keep the coals in the pot as one swings the thurible. The lid is important. If the lid is dirty only with the product of combustion, then it's got nothing to do with the smell.
You identify your best remedy when you state "the apostolic chain of thurifers has been broken." Find an AngloCatholic joint that his an unbroken chain and get their advice. I'm consulted about once every two or three years for this reason. If you haven't an AngloCatholic place nearby then the Orthodox could be a second best option.
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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LostinChelsea
Shipmate
# 5305
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Posted
It was my privilege to assist recently at a Greek Orthodox funeral at my own TEC parish (long story). I provided the thurible - no bells, alas - and he provided the incense. I noticed he brought only a few large-ish grains. I've always been prone to excess, so this showed me that a little can go a long way. No lumpy, glumpy residue from overzealousness with the spoon.
Did I inquire as to his source? Of course not.
BTW, it was a glorious occasion on many levels for many reasons. Them Orthodox can send you off in style!
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Best when taken in moderation.
Posts: 237 | From: Deep South USA | Registered: Dec 2003
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macasher
Apprentice
# 14748
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Posted
Many thanks. I'll try two rather than three coals and more incense. We use a Prinknash variety. Any suggestions about the make of the charcoal or the incense?
I'll check out the local AngloCatholic church but the punters there are of the sort that would object to being called a joint. Bit of social class division but perhaps incense is the thing to bridge it . . .
Posts: 10 | Registered: Apr 2009
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
quote:
Yes and the officiant, choir clergy (if any), choir and congregation.
This is the board on which to be fussy, yes?
Okay then. Altar first. Then the Officiant, then the choir clergy, then the (hopefully coped) assistants to the officiant, the acolytes in the sanctuary, the choir, and finally the congregation. All done deliberately, without rushing, but before the Gloria Patri is concluded.
I intentionally say "joint" and "prayer shack" to bring just such folk down a peg or two.
[ 27. April 2009, 16:52: Message edited by: Prosfonesis ]
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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Low Treason
Shipmate
# 11924
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by macasher:
I'll check out the local AngloCatholic church but the punters there are of the sort that would object to being called a joint. Bit of social class division but perhaps incense is the thing to bridge it . . .
I think using the words 'smoke' and 'joint' in the same sentence should be avoided if possible.... ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
To be more practical, we have found that grinding the incense as fine as possible makes it easier to burn.
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He brought me to the banqueting house, and His banner over me was love.
Posts: 1914 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2006
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
That's interesting, Low Treason.
We tend to be pretty enthusiastic about keeping the coals visibly red-hot, to the extent that the contents of the smaller thurible burst into open flame every five years or so. We then soundly spank those thurifers and it doesn't happen again for another half-decade.
But, the point is that if one is having trouble getting the incense to bubble 'n' burn, then either (1) the coals are not nearly hot enough or (2) the incense blend has got a lot of uninflammable crap in it.
We use straight frankincense (except during Lent) and it always burns down to nothing.
[ 27. April 2009, 21:04: Message edited by: Prosfonesis ]
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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fletcher christian
Mutinous Seadog
# 13919
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Posted
This may have been asked before, but if so maybe you could direct me to the right page (cos I'm lazy that way ![[Razz]](tongue.gif) )
What's the significance of three triple swings for the cross, 3 down front, 2 to the side, 3 back (bow), 3 more & 2 to the side then six across the front low?
And the significance/symbolism of the three circles over the elements? Is it just a Trinitarian thing?
And why only 2 for certain other things?
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'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan
Posts: 5235 | From: a prefecture | Registered: Jul 2008
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Living in Gin
Liturgical Pyromaniac
# 2572
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Posted
*bump*
Yours truly has been charged with the task of finding a way to clean three heavily-gunked-up thuribles. In skimming this thread and in consultation with several friends who have extensive experience cleaning bongs, the general consensus seems to be that acetone is the way to go.
Is it sufficient to simply apply the acetone with a rag, or would it be more effective to fill a bucket with acetone and allow the thuribles to soak for at least a day? Or is there some other preferred method?
Thanks...
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It's all fun and games until somebody gets burned at the stake.
Posts: 1893 | From: Cincinnati, USA | Registered: Apr 2002
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Living in Gin:
Is it sufficient to simply apply the acetone with a rag, or would it be more effective to fill a bucket with acetone and allow the thuribles to soak for at least a day? Or is there some other preferred method?
In our sacristy, I've seen a thurible soaking in tomato juice, and I've seen a sacristan dumping a pot of recently boiling water that I believe was used for cleaning thuribles. As I'm neither a thurifer nor a sacristan, that's about all I can say.
But in a previous parish I had very good luck with cleaning the inside of a thurible using the no-heat type of EZ-Off oven cleaner. I was careful to apply it to the filthy inside only and put it in a cold oven overnight (to contain the fumes). It was easily wipeable in the morning...nasty and gunky, but easily wiped clean.
I disclaim all responsibility for anything bad that may happen to your thurible if you try this.
Posts: 3823 | Registered: May 2004
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Comper's Child
Shipmate
# 10580
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Posted
We use "Mineral Spirits" which is less flammable. But it requires soaking the thurible which we do section by section for the larger ones.
Posts: 2509 | From: Penn's Greene Countrie Towne | Registered: Oct 2005
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Low Treason
Shipmate
# 11924
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Living in Gin:
*bump*
Is it sufficient to simply apply the acetone with a rag, or would it be more effective to fill a bucket with acetone and allow the thuribles to soak for at least a day? Or is there some other preferred method?
Thanks...
NO!!! NO!! NO!!!!
Acetone is not Nice Stuff.
It's extremely volatile and would therefore evaporate quickly. When large quantities of acetone fumes mix with air there is the risk of explosion.
You can also get a 'high' by breathing it....
Apply with a cloth.
Probably a better method for extremely gunged-up thuribles is to use a proprietory paint stripper
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He brought me to the banqueting house, and His banner over me was love.
Posts: 1914 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2006
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St Everild
Shipmate
# 3626
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Posted
I have had some success with WD40 and the tarry inside of a small thurible...then I read the instructions on the can. "Caution hightly flammable".
If you do go down this route, I'd wash and wash and wash again in very hot water with plenty of washing up liquid or similar, and ensure that every last bit of WD40 has been washed off and the whole is squeaky-clean before reassembling.
Posts: 1782 | From: Bethnei | Registered: Dec 2002
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Seraphim
Shipmate
# 14676
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Posted
Our most experienced alter server tends to remove charred incense from the coals before it can risk giving off a burnt smell. Once the censer is handed back to him if it is going to be a while before it is needed again, he removes the old incense then adds new before it will be called for. Needless to say he knows the rubrics fairly well and has his cues down pat for when to do what. The quality of the incense can also make a difference. A high grade will not leave a bad smell as it burns and just quietly turn to ash.
While I don't know about Anglican or RC censering practice in the Orthodox Church I've noticed at certain points the priest or deacon will swing the censer in a kind of figure 8, which is as close as a swinging bowl of hot coals can get to making the sign of the cross. I think it takes a little skill to get the hang of it and not sling hot cinders everywhere.
In the Orthodox practice the priest, when outside the altar will cense left and right to cense the icons of Christ and the Theotokos and will cense the choir, servers, and people as they are also icons of Christ.
Posts: 354 | From: Hattiesburg, MS | Registered: Mar 2009
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Qoheleth.
Semi-Sagacious One
# 9265
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Posted
Nitromors (methyl chloride) works a treat for cleaning thuribles.
Disclaimer: Read the safety instructions carefully before use.
[ 21. May 2009, 20:22: Message edited by: Qoheleth. ]
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The Benedictine Community at Alton Abbey offers a friendly, personal service for the exclusive supply of Rosa Mystica incense.
Posts: 2532 | From: the radiator of life | Registered: Apr 2005
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RevEv:
If you do go down this route, I'd wash and wash and wash again in very hot water with plenty of washing up liquid or similar, and ensure that every last bit of WD40 has been washed off and the whole is squeaky-clean before reassembling.
Same with my dubious EZ-Off oven-cleaner method or anything else that might leave a chemical residue. Best not to find out what that residue will do when heated. Make sure all of the cleaning-substance is completely gone.
Posts: 3823 | Registered: May 2004
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kenosis
Shipmate
# 10433
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Posted
How exactly does one turn corners?
On the last page Cusanus offered the following advice:
quote:
I've seen two ways of turning 90 degrees. One is to reduce the arc of the swing over a couple of steps, turn and then pick up the swing again. The other is the slightly more dangerous method of changing the direction of the swing by turning your swinging arm before you turn the rest of your body.
I'd love to perfect the second method (I've seen it done and it looks cool!) but it scares me. Prosfonesis suggests:
quote:
How does one turn corners? Make the turn when the thurible is in its back swing, then use the hand holding the thurible to push the discus in the direction your want the thurible to go so that the thurible goes in this direction on its forward swing; about 45° through a 90° turn works for me.
But doesn't that mean that you end up with a red hot thurible swinging into the back of your legs?
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Petrified
Ship’s ballast
# 10667
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Posted
I boil ours in a large pan after adding washing powder - usually for several hours with a couple of water changes, then treat with descaler.
This year it got a quick wizz in my ultrasonic cleaner too.
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At this time, a friend shall lose his friend's hammer and the young shall not know where lieth the things possessed by their fathers that their fathers put there only just the night before, about eight o'clock.
SoF a "prick against Bigotterie"
Posts: 540 | From: UK | Registered: Nov 2005
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RevEv:
I have had some success with WD40 and the tarry inside of a small thurible...then I read the instructions on the can. "Caution hightly flammable".
If you do go down this route, I'd wash and wash and wash again in very hot water with plenty of washing up liquid or similar, and ensure that every last bit of WD40 has been washed off and the whole is squeaky-clean before reassembling.
Mind you, the result of not not wiping every last remnant could be very effective at Pentecost
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
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uncletoby
hobbyhorsical
# 13067
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tom S:
How exactly does one turn corners?
On the last page Cusanus offered the following advice:
quote:
I've seen two ways of turning 90 degrees. One is to reduce the arc of the swing over a couple of steps, turn and then pick up the swing again. The other is the slightly more dangerous method of changing the direction of the swing by turning your swinging arm before you turn the rest of your body.
I'd love to perfect the second method (I've seen it done and it looks cool!) but it scares me.
I think the way to do it is to change the direction of the thurible swing before changing the direction of your own movement, first swinging the thurible in the direction in which you intend to turn, letting it swing back in front of you, and then turning on the second foward swing. I haven't perfected this by any means, but it does look nice when it's done well.
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`` L--d! I cannot look at it ----
Posts: 1150 | From: Cambridge | Registered: Oct 2007
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kenosis
Shipmate
# 10433
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by uncletoby:
I think the way to do it is to change the direction of the thurible swing before changing the direction of your own movement, first swinging the thurible in the direction in which you intend to turn, letting it swing back in front of you, and then turning on the second foward swing. I haven't perfected this by any means, but it does look nice when it's done well.
Thanks. This still sounds like a very dangerous activity to me! I think I'll just be very cautious until I get the hang of it.
I'm now puzzling over how many swings are "right" when censing. I'm at a fairly broad catholic Anglican parish which borrows most of its liturgical practice from the modern RC form, as well as maintaining some older practices from days of yore.
GIRM suggests three swings for anything I would need to cense (sacrament, celebrant, deacon, servers, choir etc).
My 11th edition of Ritual Notes suggests three for the celebrant, and double swings for more or less everyone else.
Meanwhile Wikipedia (don't laugh!) suggests that "traditionally" Anglican practice is:
quote:
* Three sets of triple swings: When censing the Most Blessed Sacrament
* Three sets of double swings: When censing images, relics, and other sacramentals, also when censing the celebrant.
* Two sets of double swings: When censing a Deacon.
* One set of double swings: When censing a Sub-Deacon.
* Three sets of single swings: When censing the congregation
What gives?
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LostinChelsea
Shipmate
# 5305
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Posted
Don't you think that "what gives" is the fact that there are no canons governing such things in Anglican churches? I've found on this [and many other liturgical practices] that the loudest proponents of the "right" way often have limited exposure to practices. What's "right" at home or in the parish you most respect becomes normative.
More often, there are a handful of "wrong" things -- hitting congregants with the thurible, burning illegal substances during during acolyte practice, etc. -- and lots or "right" practices.
In liturgy: Have a reason for everything you do, be consistent in parish practice, and do it all with love. Can't go wrong that way.
Oh, I think Ritual Notes is "right" on this because it's easiest to remember! ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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Best when taken in moderation.
Posts: 237 | From: Deep South USA | Registered: Dec 2003
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LostinChelsea:
Don't you think that "what gives" is the fact that there are no canons governing such things in Anglican churches?
No canons governing them because most of our canons come from a time, not so long ago, when Anglicans almost never used them.
We have no canons governing the use of photocopiers either.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Organ Builder
Shipmate
# 12478
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LostinChelsea:
... hitting congregants with the thurible, burning illegal substances during during acolyte practice, etc.
Your church sounds a lot more interesting than any I've ever attended!
Were congregants whacked on purpose or accidently?
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How desperately difficult it is to be honest with oneself. It is much easier to be honest with other people.--E.F. Benson
Posts: 3337 | From: ...somewhere in between 40 and death... | Registered: Mar 2007
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LostinChelsea
Shipmate
# 5305
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Posted
quote:
Ken observed:
We have no canons governing the use of photocopiers either.
Exactly. So there's no un-Anglican way to use photocopiers. We may lament that there's no enforceable thurible rubric, or we may invent or import norms for swinging the pot where we worship. For the historical reason you point out, we simply cannot say there is one right way to use incense in an Anglican service.
p.s. For photocopiers, there is no canon, but there is the unchangeable cosmic law that they will break down during the heavy copy load of Holy Week.
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Best when taken in moderation.
Posts: 237 | From: Deep South USA | Registered: Dec 2003
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kenosis
Shipmate
# 10433
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LostinChelsea:
More often, there are a handful of "wrong" things -- hitting congregants with the thurible, burning illegal substances during during acolyte practice, etc. -- and lots or "right" practices.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
As long as I get through my first Mass without burning the place down, I'm happy!
I've just learnt that our head server takes the thurible home to practise around his garden! Quite what his neighbours think, I don't know...
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Ann
Curious
# 94
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LostinChelsea:
quote:
Ken observed:
We have no canons governing the use of photocopiers either.
Exactly. So there's no un-Anglican way to use photocopiers. We may lament that there's no enforceable thurible rubric, or we may invent or import norms for swinging the pot where we worship. For the historical reason you point out, we simply cannot say there is one right way to use incense in an Anglican service.
p.s. For photocopiers, there is no canon, but there is the unchangeable cosmic law that they will break down during the heavy copy load of Holy Week.
Our church photocopier is a Canon.
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Ann
Posts: 3271 | From: IO 91 PI | Registered: May 2001
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LostinChelsea
Shipmate
# 5305
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Posted
I'm ashamed I didn't see that one coming!
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Best when taken in moderation.
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ann:
Our church photocopier is a Canon.
They bestow canonries for doing just about anything these days, don't they?
[ 23. May 2009, 10:10: Message edited by: Cyprian ]
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tom S:
quote:
Originally posted by uncletoby:
I think the way to do it is to change the direction of the thurible swing before changing the direction of your own movement, first swinging the thurible in the direction in which you intend to turn, letting it swing back in front of you, and then turning on the second foward swing. I haven't perfected this by any means, but it does look nice when it's done well.
Thanks. This still sounds like a very dangerous activity to me! I think I'll just be very cautious until I get the hang of it.
I'm now puzzling over how many swings are "right" when censing. I'm at a fairly broad catholic Anglican parish which borrows most of its liturgical practice from the modern RC form, as well as maintaining some older practices from days of yore.
GIRM suggests three swings for anything I would need to cense (sacrament, celebrant, deacon, servers, choir etc).
My 11th edition of Ritual Notes suggests three for the celebrant, and double swings for more or less everyone else.
Meanwhile Wikipedia (don't laugh!) suggests that "traditionally" Anglican practice is:
quote:
* Three sets of triple swings: When censing the Most Blessed Sacrament
* Three sets of double swings: When censing images, relics, and other sacramentals, also when censing the celebrant.
* Two sets of double swings: When censing a Deacon.
* One set of double swings: When censing a Sub-Deacon.
* Three sets of single swings: When censing the congregation
What gives?
+ Vincent used triple swings to cense the cross on Thursday.
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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Carys
Ship's Celticist
# 78
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by uncletoby:
quote:
Originally posted by Tom S:
How exactly does one turn corners?
On the last page Cusanus offered the following advice:
quote:
I've seen two ways of turning 90 degrees. One is to reduce the arc of the swing over a couple of steps, turn and then pick up the swing again. The other is the slightly more dangerous method of changing the direction of the swing by turning your swinging arm before you turn the rest of your body.
I'd love to perfect the second method (I've seen it done and it looks cool!) but it scares me.
I think the way to do it is to change the direction of the thurible swing before changing the direction of your own movement, first swinging the thurible in the direction in which you intend to turn, letting it swing back in front of you, and then turning on the second forward swing. I haven't perfected this by any means, but it does look nice when it's done well.
As I believe I was the person who asked about corners on the previous page. The advice given was handy and I've got the hang of them reasonably well these days I believe.
This is a good time of year for us incensewise -- we only have it on 'big days' but these include Rogation Sunday, Asension Day, Pentecost and Trinity so that's 4 times in three weeks! Though I'm actually away for Trinity as I'm crucifer for a friend's wedding the day before.
Carys
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O Lord, you have searched me and know me
You know when I sit and when I rise
Posts: 6896 | From: Bryste mwy na thebyg | Registered: May 2001
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highchurc
Shipmate
# 11491
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Carys:
I'm crucifer for a friend's wedding
I didn't know that weddings had people acting as crucifers. Where can this be found in The Book of Common Prayer ? Live and learn.
Posts: 234 | From: USA | Registered: Jun 2006
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
Oh no!
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
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Triple Tiara
Ship's Papabile
# 9556
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Posted
Where does a crucifer appear anywhere in the Book of Common Prayer?
I too want to live and learn.
[ 25. May 2009, 01:29: Message edited by: Triple Tiara ]
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I'm a Roman. You may call me Caligula.
Posts: 5905 | From: London, England | Registered: May 2005
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Saint Hedrin the Lesser-Known
Shipmate
# 11399
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Cyprian:
quote:
Originally posted by Ann:
Our church photocopier is a Canon.
They bestow canonries for doing just about anything these days, don't they?
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
Posts: 1833 | From: Manila, Philippines | Registered: May 2006
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Low Treason
Shipmate
# 11924
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Triple Tiara:
Where does a crucifer appear anywhere in the Book of Common Prayer?
I too want to live and learn.
I think its one of the Ornaments which may, or may not be referred to by the Rubric
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He brought me to the banqueting house, and His banner over me was love.
Posts: 1914 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2006
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New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
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Posted
I served as thurifer for the first time this morning. I noticed that when I began to take a swing at Father, he bent backwards just in case. So much for the confidence vote!
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
I served as thurifer for the first time this morning. I noticed that when I began to take a swing at Father, he bent backwards just in case. So much for the confidence vote!
You didn't lunge your whole body forward, did you? It doesn't make the smoke travel any further but it's funny to watch people do it. It reminds me of one occasion when I was little and the batteries in the remote control to my grandmother's television set were on the brink of death. She would swing the remote control violently while pressing the button, almost like an aspergillum, seemingly trying to give the signal some momentum so it would reach the television. ![[Axe murder]](graemlins/lovedrops.gif)
[ 22. June 2009, 14:40: Message edited by: Cyprian ]
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
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New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Cyprian:
You didn't lunge your whole body forward, did you? It doesn't make the smoke travel any further but it's funny to watch people do it. It reminds me of one occasion when I was little and the batteries in the remote control to my grandmother's television set were on the brink of death. She would swing the remote control violently while pressing the button, almost like an aspergillum, seemingly trying to give the signal some momentum so it would reach the television.
Actually, rather than lunge forward, I stepped back to ensure I would not hit him. And my grandmother did the same to her remote and I still do to this day!
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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