homepage
  roll on christmas  
click here to find out more about ship of fools click here to sign up for the ship of fools newsletter click here to support ship of fools
community the mystery worshipper gadgets for god caption competition foolishness features ship stuff
discussion boards live chat cafe avatars frequently-asked questions the ten commandments gallery private boards register for the boards
 
Ship of Fools
Thread closed  Thread closed


Post new thread  
Thread closed  Thread closed
My profile login | | Directory | Search | FAQs | Board home
   - Printer-friendly view Next oldest thread   Next newest thread
» Ship of Fools   » Ship's Locker   » Limbo   » Eccles: Incense and thuribles (Page 1)

 - Email this page to a friend or enemy.  
Pages in this thread: 1  2  3  4  ...  14  15  16 
 
Source: (consider it) Thread: Eccles: Incense and thuribles
Stephen
Shipmate
# 40

 - Posted      Profile for Stephen   Email Stephen   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
It's time to get back to the real purpose of these boards [Roll Eyes]
HT's suggestion was far too much too ignore.A counterpoint to the gin thread perhaps?
I personally am not too keen on it - or on gin! - but all sorts of questions come to mind.What sort of incense if any should we use?Are there asthmatic-free brands of incense?Should one chink or not?Should it be used as purely a processional ornament,or should it be more than that....
Which is the best incense?
Is it true that there are "No smoking" signs in the vestries of.....well never mind!


[edited thread title to add more information]

[ 29. August 2009, 10:58: Message edited by: Doublethink ]

--------------------
Best Wishes
Stephen

'Be still,then, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the nations and I will be exalted in the earth' Ps46 v10

Posts: 3954 | From: Alto C Clef Country | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Frater_Frag
Shipmate
# 2184

 - Posted      Profile for Frater_Frag   Email Frater_Frag   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
There are brands of incense that are less irritating then others. The main cause of allergic reactions are created by the burning coal!

At my parish, we once tried sk "low-allergic incense"... Only problem was that the damned thing burned three times faster than the usual stuff! So... I think you can imageing the clouds of smoke this caused...


Not to mention the reactions from those that was somewhat allergic...

Best way is to get some lab-rats from the pews, and experiment on them! If they can stand the particular blend, then use it!

--------------------
Theological Dissident,
Fencing Instr :)

"Mammals have hair, whales are mammals. Therefore whales have hair... Shave the whales!"


Posts: 500 | From: Linköping/Sweden | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Ultraspike

Incensemeister
# 268

 - Posted      Profile for Ultraspike   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
We blend our own incense and have a different blend for every season. Most of the commercial blends are too sickly sweet. But the most important thing is a clean thurible. It should be cleaned after every use, otherwise the resin builds up and burns the next time, creating an unpleasant odor. Cleaning (acetone is the best) also keeps the chains from getting sticky and not operating smoothly.

Coals are also important. If you have too many and not enough incense, you smell mostly the coals burning. If they are not big enough or hot enough (Kingsford is the best I think) the incense burns badly or not at all. So it's a delicate balance and takes practice.

As to clinking, I prefer a suble clink. Excessive clinking is vulgar, IMO, and calls too much attention to itself. However, I would love to get one of those Orthodox thuribles with the bells for certain occasions.

--------------------
A cowgirl's work is never done.


Posts: 2732 | From: NYC | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Intrepid Thurifer
Shipmate
# 77

 - Posted      Profile for Intrepid Thurifer     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Three Kings Pontifical is low smoking and has a wonderful smell. For those who like a low smoke zone. Glastonbury is also great but has a bit more smoke.
Posts: 142 | From: Melbourne Australia | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Living in Gin

Liturgical Pyromaniac
# 2572

 - Posted      Profile for Living in Gin   Email Living in Gin   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
This may be a dumb question, but what is the significance and history of incense as part of a worship service, anyway? I was raised in a fairly uptight Calvinist family and never really experienced the incense thing until I went with a friend to a Christmas Eve mass at the RC cathedral in St. Augustine, Florida several years ago. Nowadays, I sometimes attend services at a nearby Episcopal church that does the incense thing.

This also sort of reminds me of a funny story about a former co-worker of mine. He was raised Roman Catholic, and decided that he really liked the smell of the incense used in his parish, as opposed to the little hippie-style incense sticks from his local head shop. So after some searching, he finally found the type of incense his parish uses, as well as the coal and a thurible. So he proudly headed home to fire the thing up.

What he quickly realized, however, is that the church-style incense, with coal and thurible, is designed to be used in a huge sanctuary space -- not a small apartment! His roomates came home to find fragrant smoke billowing out of the doors and windows.

Anyway, I thought it was funny...

-- David
Chicago, IL

--------------------
It's all fun and games until somebody gets burned at the stake.


Posts: 1893 | From: Cincinnati, USA | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Nunc Dimittis
Seamstress of Sound
# 848

 - Posted      Profile for Nunc Dimittis   Email Nunc Dimittis   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
ROFLMAO Burma Shave!

I've contemplated doing that several times - but have been deterred by the fact that we do have a smoke alarm in the hallway. Grrr.

Hippy sticks are NOTHING compared to the real thing. Lots of people get turned off incense, thinking we use the foul hippy stick stuff in church...

*sigh* we use Pricknash: cathedral, basilica, abbey - whatever's in the cupboard. I do not like Sanctuary in their range - it's a bit tart.

I am a smoke girl myself, and favour subtle chinking in the right places. And it frustrates me when I see a thurifer who has no idea what he/she is doing... Please, can we have the right number of swings for persons in different positions? Is it really that hard to remember/control?

It's all in the technique. I am the only thurifer in my parish who does 360s. Is it that scary?


Posts: 9515 | From: Delta Quadrant | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cusanus

Ship's Schoolmaster
# 692

 - Posted      Profile for Cusanus         Edit/delete post 
Now on the subject of clean thuribles... where does one get acetone these days? I couldn't find any this week Even For Ready Money. All the nail polish remover available seems to be proudly announcing its non-acetone status. What to do?

--------------------
"You are qualified," sa fotherington-tomas, "becos you can frankly never pass an exam and have 0 branes. Obviously you will be a skoolmaster - there is no other choice."

Posts: 3120 | From: The Peninsula | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ultraspike

Incensemeister
# 268

 - Posted      Profile for Ultraspike   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Cusanus, I don't know where you live, but here in the States most hardware stores carry acetone. If you can't find it, olive oil works with alot of rubbing.

--------------------
A cowgirl's work is never done.

Posts: 2732 | From: NYC | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Pax Britannica
Shipmate
# 1876

 - Posted      Profile for Pax Britannica   Email Pax Britannica       Edit/delete post 
So what brand? My vote:
Best of all time (the Chanel trophy) -- Rosa Mystica (nla, alas: WHY??!!).

Best of currently available (the Floris challenge cup) -- Basilica from Prinknash.

What does Bourne Street favour, Incensed? Poke around the dustbins after Benediction if you have to. We must know.

And US quick-lite charcoal is much better than any UK charcoal: it doesn't go out when Father over-enthusiatically puts ten spoonfuls on.

And keep them smoking handbags clean -- USpike is right.


Posts: 945 | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ultraspike

Incensemeister
# 268

 - Posted      Profile for Ultraspike   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
SMV NYC has the best incense, specially blended in their basement by their incensemeister, who lives in Phoenix and comes once a year to mix it up. It would be nice, though, if they cleaned their thuribles more than once a year. When I was there for a couple of years I insisted on cleaning them once a month and they thought I was tres outre.

Quik-lites will never get the smoke that real coals do. They don't get hot enough or last long enough. Kingsford regular is the best if you have a gas burner to heat them up. Most places don't these days so they just use quik-lites because you can light them with a match.

What kind of setup does Bourne Street have? Come on, Incensed, let's have all the smoky details.

--------------------
A cowgirl's work is never done.


Posts: 2732 | From: NYC | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Amos

Shipmate
# 44

 - Posted      Profile for Amos     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
A gas burner! Thank you Ultra! You take me back to the Advent, which has a big old bunsen burner in the smoke sacristy. I'd forgotten about it, and so didn't realize why the custom I have seen here of lighting the charcoal on a candle-end seemed so odd.

--------------------
At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken

Posts: 7667 | From: Summerisle | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ultraspike

Incensemeister
# 268

 - Posted      Profile for Ultraspike   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
We have just one bunsen burner type gas jet which is adequate, but SMV has two gas rings like an actual stove top which is marvelous, esp. for two-thurible events. They have a special smokeroom which we covet tremendously, although it lacks the sink and window which are big assets to ours (which is in the corner of the sacristy). When burning real charcoal one must have proper ventilation, as it says on the label, otherwise you risk death by carbon monoxide! (So that's what happened to all their thurifers... )

--------------------
A cowgirl's work is never done.

Posts: 2732 | From: NYC | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
CorgiGreta
Shipmate
# 443

 - Posted      Profile for CorgiGreta         Edit/delete post 
Quoting from "A Guest at Cambridge" by George H, Guest: "...[the choir] should be able to breathe pure, unadulterated air, free from the smell of both incense and stale cassocks."

Apparently St. John's was kept smoke-free for musical, if not liturgical, reasons during his tenure at St. John's Chapel.

I have, however, heard absolutely sublime music sung when the smoke was so thick the church looked like a cigar bar. The same has been true when the choir was quite fragrant due to musty vestments and/or widespread halitosis or alcohol-breath.

Greta


Posts: 3677 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Intrepid Thurifer
Shipmate
# 77

 - Posted      Profile for Intrepid Thurifer     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
If one can't get acetone which is fairly expensive anyway, try using Mineral Turpentine that will clean away the resin we use it at our parish
Posts: 142 | From: Melbourne Australia | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Pax Britannica
Shipmate
# 1876

 - Posted      Profile for Pax Britannica   Email Pax Britannica       Edit/delete post 
Simple paint stripper will get the toughest gunk off, but it's nasty stuff.

Available in the UK, Polyclens, that invaluable blue liquid used for cleaning paint brushes, is quite effective for light use -- it contains acetone, that's why.

And when using metal polish, do get the chains really clean afterwards -- Father doesn't like old Brasso all over his hands at the offertory.


Posts: 945 | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
PaulTH*
Shipmate
# 320

 - Posted      Profile for PaulTH*   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Burma Shave asked about the history of the use of incense. I think it goes back to antiquity in human worship. In Numbers 16.17 Moses says to Korah "Each man is to take his censer and put incense in it-250 censers in all-and present it before the Lord." The Jewish Temple worship at the time of Jesus certainly employed much ritual.

I don't know when its use became widespread in Christian worship of if it was from the start. Perhaps someone can answer that. I always think its a protestant myth that the early Christians worshipped at a plain wooden table with a loaf and a cup of grape juice. Perhaps when they met in secret, they sometimes did so in spartan conditions, but all the churches close to the cradle of Christianity such as the Oriental Orthodox churches are very ritualistic and absolutely douse their churches in incense.

As one brought up a protestant, but becoming more catholic with age, I am only getting used to the use of incense now. Sometimes it makes me sneeze or feel nauseous. I don't have a problem with it, but for me it ads nothing to a fine liturgy.

--------------------
Yours in Christ
Paul


Posts: 6387 | From: White Cliffs Country | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Stephen
Shipmate
# 40

 - Posted      Profile for Stephen   Email Stephen   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
From my vague recollections of Dix,I believe Dom Gregory says that in the East incense was accepted pretty early in the Church.In the West it took quite a bit longer as incense became associated with imperial persecution (Christians having to offer incense before a representation of the Emperor or else)
However it's a while since I read "Shape of the Liturgy" so I may have my facts wrong....

--------------------
Best Wishes
Stephen

'Be still,then, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the nations and I will be exalted in the earth' Ps46 v10

Posts: 3954 | From: Alto C Clef Country | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Puseyite
Apprentice
# 2546

 - Posted      Profile for Puseyite         Edit/delete post 
As to the antiquity/universality of the use of incense in worship:

I can't remember where I picked up this particular item, but somewhere I read that incense has long been considered the appropriate offering to a deity (in many faiths) because it is completely consumed in its use, leaving no remains behind to be disposed of. Moreover, the smoke rises, like the prayers of the faithful (this is an example of the allegorization of the liturgy that I mentioned in another post) -- "Let my prayers be set forth in Thy sight as the incense, and the lifting up of my hands as the evening sacrifice."

On a different subject: I have almost always seen the thurifer swing the censer at the altar during the Sanctus, but I can find no liturgical authority for it. Can anyone corroborate?


Posts: 13 | From: East Coast USA | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Ultraspike

Incensemeister
# 268

 - Posted      Profile for Ultraspike   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
I think swinging during the Sanctus probably became the norm in some places for the practical purpose of keeping the coals going between the censings at the Offertory and the censings at the elevations. We have the thurifer retire into the chapel during this interval where they may do what they must to keep the coals going, out of sight, and then reappear at the end of the Benedictus. Most churches I suppose don't have this option and the thurifer simply remains in place in the sanctuary. This is just my theory.

--------------------
A cowgirl's work is never done.

Posts: 2732 | From: NYC | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Saint Osmund

Pontifex sariburiensis
# 2343

 - Posted      Profile for Saint Osmund   Email Saint Osmund       Edit/delete post 
I seem to have chosen the best time to notice this thread. I thought I'd take the opportunity to ask about what exactly to do with the thurible at the Sanctus.

Now, I've been told that you give it a full circle for each Sanctus and swing violently until the 'hosanna un excelsis' of the Benedictus.

However, I, like Puseyite have not found it in 'Ceremonies of the Roman Rite' and have been told that 'Ritual Notes' makes no mention of this pracrice either, both books that go into explicit detail.

Any enlightenment?

Also, I'm glad Stephen mentioned Dix in response to PaulTH's post, as that's the publication that instantly came to my mind as well. I think you've hit the nail on the head Ste.

When Christianity became the 'state religion' (anachronistic?) of the Roman empire, it's ceremonial adopted many of the practices of the Imperialist state. Incense was used to herald the emperor and other civil dignitaries; the amount of incense increasing with honour.

Bishops then received this honour and incense took on within the church the significance of honouring.

The Most Blessed Sacrament, and rites surrounding it, as a result became fumigated.

Many OT verses make reference to the purifying aspect of fire/coal & the like and so incense also came to symbolise purifying/ sanctifying. This would explain its use at the offertory to 'make holy' the oblations to be offered, the altar on which they are offered, and the priestly people offering them.

Sorry, I got carried away, not all of that is from Dix. I've picked up bits and bobs from various sources.


Posts: 2965 | From: here | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
Jengie jon

Semper Reformanda
# 273

 - Posted      Profile for Jengie jon   Author's homepage   Email Jengie jon   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Just to give the non-conformist myth to the inclusion of incense.

It became common place when Constantine decided that the official faith of the Roman Empire should be Christianity.

It was used prior to that in Roman life to stop disease spreading from the crowds to the officials. When Christianity was the official religion, then the officials became important people in church structure but were unwilling to forgo this cleansing priveledge so incense had to be incorporated into worship. The spiritualising of it came after. It of course would still be early.

Jengie

--------------------
"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge

Back to my blog


Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Nunc Dimittis
Seamstress of Sound
# 848

 - Posted      Profile for Nunc Dimittis   Email Nunc Dimittis   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
I will check Ritual Notes on this RC, but what I learnt, and what I have observed re thurible and the Sanctus was:

The bell is rung three times. At each ring, the thurifer swings the thurible thrice in the manner of censing someone/thing. (Assuming he/she is kneeling before the Altar...) The Thurifer then continues to swing the thurible in small rapid arcs side to side until the Agnus Dei, repeating the censing figure at the elevation of both elements.

I don't know if this is correct.


Posts: 9515 | From: Delta Quadrant | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ultraspike

Incensemeister
# 268

 - Posted      Profile for Ultraspike   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
I've never seen the type of censing ND describes at the Sanctus. Sounds like creative ritual to me.

--------------------
A cowgirl's work is never done.

Posts: 2732 | From: NYC | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Nunc Dimittis
Seamstress of Sound
# 848

 - Posted      Profile for Nunc Dimittis   Email Nunc Dimittis   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Why, what do you do at the Sanctus, US?
Posts: 9515 | From: Delta Quadrant | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ultraspike

Incensemeister
# 268

 - Posted      Profile for Ultraspike   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
As I said a few posts ago, the thurifer retires to the chapel, out of sight, to stoke the coals and wait for the end of the Benedictus to reappear.

Most churches, I think, don't have a convenient place for the thurifer to retire to as we do, and so have the thurifer merely stand in place, swinging gently to keep the coals going. I've never seen the kind of censing you described during the Sanctus. Perhaps Puseyite can research this burning issue for us. I think someone said already the ceremonials are silent on what the thurifer is to do between the Offertory and the censings at the Consecration so perhaps some local customaries call for creativity...

--------------------
A cowgirl's work is never done.


Posts: 2732 | From: NYC | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Pax Britannica
Shipmate
# 1876

 - Posted      Profile for Pax Britannica   Email Pax Britannica       Edit/delete post 
yes, but what brands, shipmates, do the great shrines use? -- I can't believe you all make up your own...

Name names, and tell us what you like..


Posts: 945 | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Fiddleback
unregistered


 - Posted            Edit/delete post 
Elmore 'Evesham' which is very piquant seems to suit our angular Gothic pile. Have tried Prinknash 'Basilica' recently on the recommendation of some of the aficionados on this ship, but it doesn't seem right here.
IP: Logged
Cosmo
Shipmate
# 117

 - Posted      Profile for Cosmo         Edit/delete post 
Prinknash 'Basilica' is horrible stuff in comparison to 'Priory'. Suitable only for the most Lenten of days.

Rosa Mystica is sadly no longer obtainable in its original form. I know not why; only that the monks who blended the original mixture seem to have taken the secret to the grave. Indeed even its original form is so old that it gives off a nasty scent akin to Grandmother's Talcum Powder.

Cosmo


Posts: 2375 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Maniple
Shipmate
# 2237

 - Posted      Profile for Maniple   Author's homepage   Email Maniple   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Rosa Mystica is great for special occasions such as Theotokian celebrations and should be kept for such occasions and not burnt at Low Masses. Dark coloured incense with Gold bits included looks wonderful in the boat.

Maniple.

--------------------
No Maniple, No Mass.
Better Together.


Posts: 178 | From: La Casa del Caffe Tazza d'Oro | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Pax Britannica
Shipmate
# 1876

 - Posted      Profile for Pax Britannica   Email Pax Britannica       Edit/delete post 
I was immensely fond of my grandmother, which is perhaps why I love(d) Rosa Mystica...

But Maniple, you imply you have a secret source? Are those poor monks perhaps still slaving away for you, but in Another Place?


Posts: 945 | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ascension-ite
Shipmate
# 1985

 - Posted      Profile for Ascension-ite   Email Ascension-ite   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
We at Ascension and St Agnes in DC do exactly as Nunc describes above, I would have thought most churches do this. The thurifer censes each element as one would cense a prerson/thing all the time while kneeling at the altar. Is this unusual in AC circles?
Posts: 318 | From: Old Dominion | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ultraspike

Incensemeister
# 268

 - Posted      Profile for Ultraspike   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
I think we were talking about the Sanctus, Ascensionite. Nunc says they do a double censing for each bell at the Sanctus, which I've never heard of. What exactly are you censing, the bells?

--------------------
A cowgirl's work is never done.

Posts: 2732 | From: NYC | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ascension-ite
Shipmate
# 1985

 - Posted      Profile for Ascension-ite   Email Ascension-ite   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Never mind. Wasn't paying rapt attention, we don't cense the bells at the sanctus, in fact the thurifer is standing at the sacristy door at that point. Sounds like a very odd practice. As for our brand of incense we usually use Prinknash "abbey" I beleive, sometimes Elmore Abbey's brand as well and sometimes straight frankincense.
Posts: 318 | From: Old Dominion | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged
Pax Britannica
Shipmate
# 1876

 - Posted      Profile for Pax Britannica   Email Pax Britannica       Edit/delete post 
I'm not sure it's seemly to have the thurifer just hanging around until Agnus Dei -- he should just leave after he's done his job, tho' perhaps at the end of the Eucharistic Prayer to avoid distractions (though in advanced Roman churches he often leaves right after the elevations, on the basis that the choir are still warbling away during the Sacred Silent Canon and no-one is paying attention anyway).

There is a very bizarre custom over here of censing the Elements as they are slightly elevated at the Doxology of the EP, and ringing the bells too. Surely one of those weird Episcky inventions?


Posts: 945 | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ultraspike

Incensemeister
# 268

 - Posted      Profile for Ultraspike   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
They do that at SMV, the censing and bells at the "by whom and with whom" and the end of the consecration. I thought it was a Fr. Wells invention. Where else does it?

--------------------
A cowgirl's work is never done.

Posts: 2732 | From: NYC | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Stephen
Shipmate
# 40

 - Posted      Profile for Stephen   Email Stephen   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
They used to ring the bells at the end of the Prayer of Consecration with the Elevation of the elements in St.George's Cullercoats.Now no longer sadly;they have gone for the corrupt practice of ringing the bells at the Words of Institution
Grrrr

--------------------
Best Wishes
Stephen

'Be still,then, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the nations and I will be exalted in the earth' Ps46 v10

Posts: 3954 | From: Alto C Clef Country | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Nunc Dimittis
Seamstress of Sound
# 848

 - Posted      Profile for Nunc Dimittis   Email Nunc Dimittis   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by Ultraspike:
I think we were talking about the Sanctus, Ascensionite. Nunc says they do a double censing for each bell at the Sanctus, which I've never heard of. What exactly are you censing, the bells?

No we don't cense the bells!!! LOL

How to explain this?

OK. One does the Offertory - censes everyone and everything necessary to eternal salvation - then pops back into the sacristry to top up on the incense/check coals are ok etc etc... I usually try to resurface in the sanctuary just after the sursum corda; on of the other servers makes sure there is a hassock in the right place in the middle of the sanctuary, and one kneels there smack bang in the middle, in front of the altar, swinging the thurible and hopefully creating billows of smoke.

When the Sanctus comes round, at each of the words, "Holy, holy, holy" the bell (we are a bit strange in that we use the sanctus bell for Benediction, and the Benediction gong for mass) is struck. At each of the strikings of the bell one swings the thurible upwards, as though censing someone/something - towards the Sacrament I guess (though not yet consecrated obviously). Now I don;t know about how you do it, but from the way I read Ritual Notes, the celebrant gets 3 swings, as does the bishop if present, deacon/subdeacon get 2 swings if in orders, if not, a single swing... etc etc

A single swing - ie one unit - consists of two movements of the thurible towards the person/object censed. If more than one swing is involved, there is usually a slight pause at the bottom of the second movement thus:

-> -> . -> -> .

If a censing a group:

middle <- -> .

So: when censing during the sanctus, there are 2 swings for every "Holy":

(holy/dong)-> -> . (holy/dong)-> -> . (holy/dong)-> -> . then back to swinging normally. This same pattern happens for the elevation of each element.

(genuflect/dong) -> -> . (elevation/dong) -> -> . (genuflect/dong) -> ->.

Please don't take this like I think you are all simpletons; you know more than I/have done this longer than I...

Is this any different to what you do?


And if so, how, why?


Posts: 9515 | From: Delta Quadrant | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Nunc Dimittis
Seamstress of Sound
# 848

 - Posted      Profile for Nunc Dimittis   Email Nunc Dimittis   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Whoops I mean - one swing for every Holy... = two movements.
Posts: 9515 | From: Delta Quadrant | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Saint Osmund

Pontifex sariburiensis
# 2343

 - Posted      Profile for Saint Osmund   Email Saint Osmund       Edit/delete post 
Doesn't the bishop get three treble, rather than double swings at the Offertory?

As for the swings during the Sanctus, I suppose it's difficult to swing full circle if you're going to be kneeling. And apparently, I'm not the only one who does this, though I cannot at this moment find the Mystery Worship to link to. I think it was in NZ.

I know S Elisabeth's Reddish don't have elevations after the Words of Institution, but only at the Doxology and Great Amen to illustrate the consecratory nature of the entire Eucharistic Prayer.

Though I agree with the theology of this, I still see the Words of Consecration, (along with the epiklesis) as being central and give three swings (again at full length) to the Blessed Sacrament at each elevation.

However we have no standard practice. It really just depends on who the thurifer is at that particular liturgy. We have one who doesn't seem to notice the elevations at all, but just swings from side to side throughout the entire Prayer.


Posts: 2965 | From: here | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
Frater_Frag
Shipmate
# 2184

 - Posted      Profile for Frater_Frag   Email Frater_Frag   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
At my church, S:t Hans(short for John) in Linköping/Sweden we use one swing for the thurifer, two for priests and three for the guys in the funny hats!

Our church is a shoe-box made of bricks, consecrated in 1973. The altar rests on a podium, ca 30 cm high. No steps to the altar...
So, my decision is that the Thurifer is to stand/kneel on the northern side of the altar, slightly behind it. We are using the Versus Populem rite...
No place to retreat to, during canon, so... instead I stay put, on my knees until Pax, then I, after exchanging pax with the celebrant, I simply retreat to my seat, hang up the thuribel and go on with the show!

And, yes, we use "Three Kings" as our favorit choice of incense!

--------------------
Theological Dissident,
Fencing Instr :)

"Mammals have hair, whales are mammals. Therefore whales have hair... Shave the whales!"


Posts: 500 | From: Linköping/Sweden | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Abouna
Apprentice
# 290

 - Posted      Profile for Abouna     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Ultraspike:

I can help you with a belled-censer if you would like one. Just le me know.

Abouna


As to clinking, I prefer a suble clink. Excessive clinking is vulgar, IMO, and calls too much attention to itself. However, I would love to get one of those Orthodox thuribles with the bells for certain occasions.[/QB][/QUOTE]


Posts: 25 | From: California, USA | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ultraspike

Incensemeister
# 268

 - Posted      Profile for Ultraspike   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Abouna, YES, definitely interested. See my PM.

Thanks!

--------------------
A cowgirl's work is never done.


Posts: 2732 | From: NYC | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
jlg

What is this place?
Why am I here?
# 98

 - Posted      Profile for jlg   Email jlg   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Did a funeral today, and before it started, the priest darted over to the "choir vestry" to tuck his suitcoat into the closet with the server albs, commenting that he had some sort of social occasion later in the day and didn't want his coat to smell of incense since it clashed with his cologne. I jokingly suggested that he should find a cologne that coordinated with the incense and he replied that we should let the monks know about this request.

I happen to like that fact that after a funeral I get whiffs of incense from my hair at random moments for the rest of the day.

So, shipmates, which colognes and aftershaves go with which incenses?


Posts: 17391 | From: Just a Town, New Hampshire, USA | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
BirettaBoy
Apprentice
# 2770

 - Posted      Profile for BirettaBoy     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
I was very interested to learn of the differing practices of censing/incense preferences in the discussion so far. Personally I adhere to the rubrics of Fr Fortuescue as to double/single incensations. We also ring the bell and Cense at the "...Through Him, with him..."

I have never been able to find any instructions as to when the thurifer should come or go during the canon, and I remain in the sanctuary, swinging throughout (with the lid open), EXCEPT at the Santus, when I stop swinging and bow.

As to incence preferences, we use Basilica for most Masses (good amount of smoke, fragrant), with our small amont of Rosa mystica reserved for v special occasions!

I heard a rumour that Rosa mystica was 20% Cannabis Resin! I have no idea whether this is true, but it could explain why it is so beloved of all thurifers and Priests I know!


Posts: 1 | From: London | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
Tau
Shipmate
# 614

 - Posted      Profile for Tau   Email Tau   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
in S:t Hans in Linköping/Sweden we use one swing for the thurifer, two for priests and three for the guys in the funny hats!

Fraggie, is this Svenska kyrkan you're talking about? (Not familiar with your Lincopensian situation.)

If yes, then I can only say I'm most sincerely --why can you use incense when we don't?

pax,
AW

--------------------
There is no fear in love.


Posts: 191 | From: over here | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Frater_Frag
Shipmate
# 2184

 - Posted      Profile for Frater_Frag   Email Frater_Frag   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Yes this "Svenska Kyrkan"(church of sweden)that I´m refering to!

Since many people claims that they are allergic to incense, we simply have some extra services, where we use incense to our hearts delight!

This means that you can see a sunday evening mass announced as "mass with incense".

Those that don´t want it can visit the regular highmass at 1100, the rest of us can stay in bed...

Why you can´t use incense I can´t understand!
Except for reasons named above!

--------------------
Theological Dissident,
Fencing Instr :)

"Mammals have hair, whales are mammals. Therefore whales have hair... Shave the whales!"


Posts: 500 | From: Linköping/Sweden | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Siegfried
Ship's ferret
# 29

 - Posted      Profile for Siegfried   Author's homepage   Email Siegfried   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
From a new thread on Incense

quote:
Originally posted by stbruno:
My nose tells me that various kinds of incense are used at Mass depending on the Feast day being celebrated. For instance at Class 1 feasts I'm sure I detect rose oil, while on ordinary Sundays it justs smells like the usual mix.

So are there any rules re incense or is it purely a matter of taste? [Confused]

quote:
Originally posted by Degs:
Practice in my last parish was:

Rose for Our Lady

Frankincense or 'Three Kings' for Christmas and Epiphany

'Pontifical' when the Bishop popped in and for Easter

and good old Prinknash 'Basilica' for the other occasions.

Purely my personal taste!!

Nowadays I have to use whatever is on offer in the parishes I visit.

quote:
Originally posted by Merseymike:
One of our parishioners brought back this amazingly pungent incense from a Greek holiday. It not only smelled like the Body Shop writ large, but also seemed to combine with the charcoal to produce the most thick smoke I have ever seen. The sound of coughing in the pews was reminiscent of a smoker's convention!

quote:
Originally posted by A name I call myself:
The Body Shop smells of nothing. So there [Wink]

I used to work at The body Shop, and there's litle more annoying that people coming in and going "Ooooh! Doesn't it smell lovely!" when you can't smell a thing.

That aside, an ordinand currently on placement at my own parish church commented "I've never seen a church with such a small congregation have so many types of incense".

We were proud.

Me x


Posts: 5592 | From: Tallahassee, FL USA | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Stephen
Shipmate
# 40

 - Posted      Profile for Stephen   Email Stephen   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
I can't believe I started this thread!!
So what do people think of 360* swings then?
When should they be done?

--------------------
Best Wishes
Stephen

'Be still,then, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the nations and I will be exalted in the earth' Ps46 v10

Posts: 3954 | From: Alto C Clef Country | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
seasick

...over the edge
# 48

 - Posted      Profile for seasick   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
360° swings remind me of cheerleaders and suchlike - I think that they're entirely inappropriate, and somewhat over the top.

--------------------
We believe there is, and always was, in every Christian Church, ... an outward priesthood, ordained by Jesus Christ, and an outward sacrifice offered therein. - John Wesley

Posts: 5769 | From: A world of my own | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Frater_Frag
Shipmate
# 2184

 - Posted      Profile for Frater_Frag   Email Frater_Frag   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
The only time that a 360° is allowed is when you are warming up the coals! [Razz]

--------------------
Theological Dissident,
Fencing Instr :)

"Mammals have hair, whales are mammals. Therefore whales have hair... Shave the whales!"

Posts: 500 | From: Linköping/Sweden | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged



Pages in this thread: 1  2  3  4  ...  14  15  16 
 
Post new thread  
Thread closed  Thread closed
Open thread   Feature thread   Move thread   Delete thread Next oldest thread   Next newest thread
 - Printer-friendly view
Go to:

Contact us | Ship of Fools | Privacy statement

© Ship of Fools 2016

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.5.0

 
follow ship of fools on twitter
buy your ship of fools postcards
sip of fools mugs from your favourite nautical website
 
 
  ship of fools