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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Eccles: Videos & Pictures
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Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
Shipmate
# 11274
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Posted
Funny you should post the link to that, LQ. I had just viewed said Easter Eucharist at the cathedral earlier this afternoon. Pretty nice MOTR-high I thought.
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LQ:
The Procession and Choral Eucharist of Easter Day 2008 can be viewed on the website of the Cathedral Church of St James in Toronto.
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
Thanks, LQ! Since I can't be Armchair Quarterback right now, I naturally thought Armchair Verger would be a suitable alternative.
Besides, I need something to occupy me until Ascension introduces the world to Rite II done right!
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin L:
quote:
Originally posted by LQ:
The Procession and Choral Eucharist of Easter Day 2008 can be viewed on the website of the Cathedral Church of St James in Toronto.
Are those accents normal for Toronto (bishop and dean)?
Also, I noticed two bits of ceremony I've never encountered in Anglicanism:
- the sign of the cross at 'grace and heavenly benediction'
- the Minor Elevation morphing into a major elevation, complete with bells
And is the omission of the final "s" in the pronunciation of Jesus--heard particularly at the beginning of the eucharistic prayer but not later--a common thing in Canada? I've heard it in the audio downloads from St. Thomas, Toronto, as well.
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Triple Tiara:
Our Archbishop exercising his famous "media friendly" talents, discussing the pallium.
Thanks. Now, if only we could get him to hang his iPhone from the balcony railing of every church he visits, recording the Mass and later uploading the videos. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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highchurc
Shipmate
# 11491
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin L:
Rite II done right!
How's that for an oxymoron?
Posts: 234 | From: USA | Registered: Jun 2006
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Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin L:
quote:
Originally posted by Martin L:
quote:
Originally posted by LQ:
The Procession and Choral Eucharist of Easter Day 2008 can be viewed on the website of the Cathedral Church of St James in Toronto.
Are those accents normal for Toronto (bishop and dean)?
Also, I noticed two bits of ceremony I've never encountered in Anglicanism:
- the sign of the cross at 'grace and heavenly benediction'
- the Minor Elevation morphing into a major elevation, complete with bells
And is the omission of the final "s" in the pronunciation of Jesus--heard particularly at the beginning of the eucharistic prayer but not later--a common thing in Canada? I've heard it in the audio downloads from St. Thomas, Toronto, as well.
1. No, the Dean is Barbadian and studied in England. As for the bishop, I suspect he's just speaking a prestige dialect intentionally.
2. That sign of the cross is pretty standard, even in some high-MOTR parishes like my old one.
3. I think the BCP is just inconsistent with where it reads "Jesu" and "Jesus."
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
Is the organist's act of personal hygiene immediately prior to the Alleluia in the Canadian rubrics or is it a local custom?
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LQ:
1. No, the Dean is Barbadian and studied in England. As for the bishop, I suspect he's just speaking a prestige dialect intentionally.
It surprised me. I am quite familiar with Chicawgo twang ( ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif) ), but I never suspected such a difference between here and there.
quote:
2. That sign of the cross is pretty standard, even in some high-MOTR parishes like my old one.
I've never seen it in a TEC place. (That doesn't mean it never happens, though! My experience is limited.)
quote:
3. I think the BCP is just inconsistent with where it reads "Jesu" and "Jesus."
Good ol' Anglicans, they be!
quote:
Cyprian:
Is the organist's act of personal hygiene immediately prior to the Alleluia in the Canadian rubrics or is it a local custom?
It does answer that age-old question, "What does the organist do while the choir chants Victimae paschali laudes?" Only they didn't.
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Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596
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Posted
I had heard that the St Michael's Youth Conference is the US was spikier, but this confirms it.
Things that I noticed (some of which may be rubrical or textual differences):
*Obviously I think the vestments are fantastic.
*The saying of the opening acclamation, rather than singing.
*I was expecting a Rite II Mass when I heard "all hearts are open" (and not "be open") but then the trad language kicked back in.
*The translation of the Kyrie into English. I've never heard the Gloria of that setting before.
*The altar appears to be freestanding, but is censed as if it were not.
*"Creator and preserver of all things" is omitted from the Preface.
*The celebrant sounds a bit Shatneresque in the Canon.
*The deacon and subdeacon kneeling at the Institution Narrative is something I have never seen in my life.
*The sign of the cross that Martin has never seen is at 7:48 of video 4.
Posts: 6806 | From: Tio'tia:ke | Registered: Jun 2006
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LA Dave
Shipmate
# 1397
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Posted
LQ: Do you not know this setting, written by that most famous of Canadian composers, Healey Willan? It is the Missa Sancta Magdalena, written in honor of his parish church in Toronto. It is one of the few settings available for Rite I use, assuming that the camp was using the 1982 Hymnal. My old TEC parish (Rite I) sings it every week.
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Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596
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Posted
Of course I've heard the setting. It's relatively common for traditional language Masses that are congregationally sung. But the Gloria and Creed are invariably Merbecke or de Angelis.
Oh, another thing:
*the lack of response to the Summary of the Law
Posts: 6806 | From: Tio'tia:ke | Registered: Jun 2006
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LQ:
*I was expecting a Rite II Mass when I heard "all hearts are open" (and not "be open") but then the trad language kicked back in.
That is the way it appears in Rite I (old language) of the BCP79. See here.
quote:
*The translation of the Kyrie into English. I've never heard the Gloria of that setting before.
I seem to only encounter the old Scottish chant Gloria in Rite I masses. Never once have I encountered Merbecke, or this Gloria from Sancta Maria Magdalena, in a church setting. I've played through it before, so I know it, but I've never heard it in church. The Kyrie (in English), Sanctus, and Agnus Dei from SMM seem to be quite common.
quote:
*The sign of the cross that Martin has never seen is at 7:48 of video 4.
Thanks.
ETA: There is no "incline our hearts" response to the Summary of the Law in BCP79 Rite I. The Kyrie is the response. When the Decalogue is read (so, never) there is a response to each commandment.
[ 07. August 2009, 22:54: Message edited by: Martin L ]
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin L:
Never once have I encountered Merbecke, or this Gloria from Sancta Maria Magdalena, in a church setting. I've played through it before, so I know it, but I've never heard it in church. The Kyrie (in English), Sanctus, and Agnus Dei from SMM seem to be quite common.
Interesting, because the Willan SMM is the standard congregational Gloria chez Ascension in choral Masses. Your visit (visits?) must have been on the rare occasion(s) when the choir sings the full Mass setting including Gloria and Credo. Now that I think of it, this is probably what went on.
I understand from our parish history that the switch from full choral Masses to congregational Gloria and Creed resulted in the abrupt departure of the organist/choirmaster of the time. I think his editions of the Roman Gradual propers are what our schola still uses.
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Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596
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Posted
[tangent] I've always wondered where SMM's minor propers come from. Now that they're looking for a new rector I know, thanks to the publication of the Parish Profile, that they are from something called "the Wantage adaptation."
Posts: 6806 | From: Tio'tia:ke | Registered: Jun 2006
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LQ:
[tangent] I've always wondered where SMM's minor propers come from. Now that they're looking for a new rector I know, thanks to the publication of the Parish Profile, that they are from something called "the Wantage adaptation."
Which is presumably the text that is used in The Plainchant Gradual, published by the sisters at Wantage, and which graces my bookshelf, and is the same text that is used in the minor propers section of The English Hymnal.
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
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LA Dave
Shipmate
# 1397
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Posted
LQ: Willan is a standard setting for Rite I parishes, and was one of the settings in the 1940 Hymnal for use with the 1928 Prayer Book. Yes, that awful Merbecke is sometimes sung, along with the equally awful Scottish thing, but Willan (IMHO)is much to be preferred. Is the Willan SMM a setting available in the Canadian hymnal?
The priest who posted the St. Michael's videos is rector of St. John's Episcopal Church in Detroit, which is, I believe, a 1928 Prayer Book parish by special arrangement with the Bishop of Michigan.
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Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596
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Posted
1928 BCP and Anglican Missal, I think.
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LQ:
[tangent] I've always wondered where SMM's minor propers come from. Now that they're looking for a new rector I know, thanks to the publication of the Parish Profile, that they are from something called "the Wantage adaptation."
Yes, when they're in English, but I think they've sung them in Latin more recently. During a visit to SMM, I was granted an audience with the head cantor after Mass, and he showed me the copies of the Wantage Plainchant Graduals they were using at the time. This sent me on an eventually successful quest for my own copy, and thanks to eBay, I've got one.
Don't know what they use for Latin...I'm assuming the current Solesmes editions. (Or maybe I'm bonkers about their singing Latin propers, but I thought I had read that.)
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Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596
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Posted
Graduale Romanum when no English is available, according to the profile.
Posts: 6806 | From: Tio'tia:ke | Registered: Jun 2006
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LA Dave
Shipmate
# 1397
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Posted
LQ: According to its website, St. John's Detroit is a 1928 PB and 1940 Hymnal parish. No mention of the Anglican Missal, a true rara avis in the Episcopal Church. You aren't that far away in Toronto; you might perform a cross-border incursion one Sunday and give us a Mystery Worshipper report.
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oblatus:
Your visit (visits?) must have been on the rare occasion(s) when the choir sings the full Mass setting including Gloria and Credo.
Yes indeed. Unless all the trappings of pontificalia are pulled out, Martin stays local.
[That being said, if the good folks at Ascension were to pull out a Richard Proulx congregational setting, I could perhaps be convinced to visit. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) ]
[ 08. August 2009, 20:53: Message edited by: Martin L ]
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Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LA Dave:
LQ: According to its website, St. John's Detroit is a 1928 PB and 1940 Hymnal parish. No mention of the Anglican Missal, a true rara avis in the Episcopal Church. You aren't that far away in Toronto; you might perform a cross-border incursion one Sunday and give us a Mystery Worshipper report.
Yes, but the service leaflets show that the minor propers are in use, and they must have come from somewhere (other than 1928). I just don't recall which missal is that somewhere, but it's there.
Posts: 6806 | From: Tio'tia:ke | Registered: Jun 2006
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Max.
Shipmate
# 5846
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Posted
Fulton Sheen on what's my line!
Max.
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For the sake of His sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
That must be the only time he appeared on television not wearing his rochet, mozzetta, zucchetto and ferraiolo.
And note that only Dorothy Kilgallen kissed his ring.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Maybe he was a special friend of Dorothy's.
No, as a good Catholic girl she knew how to treat a bishop.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
"Never mind the cross. Let's talk about the pectorals."
(Miss Amanda will get her wrap.)
But before she does . . . for those too young to remember . . . Dorothy Killgallen was a journalist. It is said that she was murdered because she "knew too much" about the assassination of John F. Kennedy and was about to tell all.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Organ Builder:
This video just showed up on "FailBlog".
That's splendid!
I'm not sure this is technically a video but it's on Youtube so it'll have to do.
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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Posted
What is the beautiful hymn, Crypian?
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Even more so than I was before
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:
What is the beautiful hymn, Crypian?
It's a composition of the Archbishop of Volokolamsk, who is also an author of a number of books under the name Hilarion Alfeyev.
An English translation:
quote:
Rejoice, O Virgin Theotokos! Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, for thou hast borne the Saviour of our souls. (sung three times)
That's the translation we use at my parish. It's my parish that features in the compilation. I'm the fat reader.
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
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fletcher christian
Mutinous Seadog
# 13919
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Posted
It tells you if you click the 'more info' bit on the right hand side of the page. You can even get it from the website link given
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'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Seven minutes, if you stick it out to the end you may find it surprisingly familiar - those pesky Quakers get everywhere ...
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
Gosh. Thank you for sharing that, Doublethink.
I honestly had no idea that these were the origins of the hymn, and that when I was singing "forgive our foolish ways", it was a reference to much that I held dear. I'm not sure how I feel about the likening of such holy things to a hallucinogenic ritual drink of pre-Christian religion. Still, all things are fulfilled in Christ.
I wonder what the author would think to know his words are now often used right there among processions, and candles, and chanting, and incense. ![[Two face]](graemlins/scot_twoface.gif)
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
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Boadicea Trott
Shipmate
# 9621
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Cyprian:
I'm not sure this is technically a video but it's on Youtube so it'll have to do. [/QB]
Cyprian, I really enjoyed the Youtube video ! ![[Angel]](graemlins/angel.gif)
I love the icon of St Werburgh; do you know from whence it came ?
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X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Oh, spinning in his grave probably - Quakers of his period were quite puritan - none the less, the hymn deriving from it is beautiful. Shame that, despite his sincerity, the person singing in the video has 'intonation issues'.
[Crosspost replyimg to Cyprian.]
[ 18. August 2009, 19:10: Message edited by: Doublethink ]
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boadicea Trott:
quote:
Originally posted by Cyprian:
I'm not sure this is technically a video but it's on Youtube so it'll have to do.
Cyprian, I really enjoyed the Youtube video !
I love the icon of St Werburgh; do you know from whence it came ?
Glad you enjoyed it! That particular image is an old scan I took did of an icon card that I used to have. The original icon used to hang in the chapel of St Werburgh in Congleton, which was a satellite chapel of my parish, but which closed in 2007. I haven't seen it since. I know that some of the things from the chapel went into storage and some went to the Sourozh diocese's mission in Tunbridge Wells, so I'm not sure where it is. I hope it goes up in our new church. Mind you, we do have another icon of St Werburgh that was painted by my parish priest so it's possible that we did give the one you saw away. I can try to find out. The icon cards can be got from Fr Andrew Bond.
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
Oh, spinning in his grave probably - Quakers of his period were quite puritan - none the less, the hymn deriving from it is beautiful. Shame that, despite his sincerity, the person singing in the video has 'intonation issues'.
You're a very kind person, Doublethink.
Yes, it is a lovely hymn. When I was at college, I went on a group retreat to a retreat house in Cumbria. We were divided into groups and each given a portion of the service to look after. I ended up in the group of four who took care of the music. It so happened, that the college choir had just been practising Parry's setting and one of my fellow choristers had brought her music with her, so we did it a capella, in four parts. Concrete-walled chapels with ceramic tile floors certainly have their benefits. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
[Code fix - DT Eccles Host]
[ 18. August 2009, 19:57: Message edited by: Doublethink ]
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
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Max.
Shipmate
# 5846
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Posted
This is yummy!
As is this
Max.
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For the sake of His sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.
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Shadowhund
Shipmate
# 9175
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Posted
Max's videos demonstrate everything that is wrong with the liturgy in too many of our parishes. Who knew that someting like the theme from Rhoda could be used for the gospel procession? And why the fuck is that priest or deacon waving around the gospel book?
Fucking hell, indeed! Too bad I don't have the money to hire some ruffians to smash their guitars and drums so that they can never defile the liturgy again.
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"Had the Dean's daughter worn a bra that afternoon, Norman Shotover might never have found out about the Church of England; still less about how to fly"
A.N. Wilson
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Max.
Shipmate
# 5846
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Posted
That's very insulting.
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For the sake of His sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Franco, if you want to rant, take it to hell. Now please.
Doublethink
Eccles Host
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Max.:
That's very insulting.
Yes it is - I have just watched the two videos and, though they are not to my taste, I cannot say that they are 'wrong'.
If liturgical correctness is down to what 'I' personally like, and if all newcomers have got to fit in with what 'I' like or else leave, then let the church continue to decline and will the last old fogey turn the lights off when he has finished.
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
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Thurible
Shipmate
# 3206
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Franco-American:
Max's videos demonstrate everything that is wrong with the liturgy in too many of our parishes. ... And why the fuck is that priest or deacon waving around the gospel book?
I only watched the first bit of the first (and that with the sound off) and I wouldn't say it demonstrates 'everything' but it does demonstrate much. Franco-American's question does seem a reasonable one, though. Why was he waving it around?
Also, where is the altar?
And WHY do floppy chasuble wearers insist on getting albs that are too short?
Thurible
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"I've been baptised not lobotomised."
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Comper's Child
Shipmate
# 10580
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Thurible:
quote:
Originally posted by Franco-American:
Max's videos demonstrate everything that is wrong with the liturgy in too many of our parishes. ... And why the fuck is that priest or deacon waving around the gospel book?
I only watched the first bit of the first (and that with the sound off) and I wouldn't say it demonstrates 'everything' but it does demonstrate much. Franco-American's question does seem a reasonable one, though. Why was he waving it around?
Also, where is the altar?
And WHY do floppy chasuble wearers insist on getting albs that are too short?
Thurible
I'd run in horror, but if those people are engaged in this worship and it brings them to Christ, who am I to say it's not appropriate?
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
I imagine the showing of the gospel is similar in concept to the idea of a priest or bishop kissing the book before reading from it.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
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