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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Doctor Who: Silence will fall - the Doctor Who thread returns
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Jahlove
Tied to the mast
# 10290
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Posted
Baddies who turn on/off depending on whether they are being viewed or not just remind me of the Weeping Angels from Blink/The Time of Angels/Flesh and Stone - a bit old. I agree with others, very much a *scene-setter* but who cares when the gorgeous and cool Dr River Song is in it? And, with Ariel, why on earth (or other point along the time-space continuum) is it sooo important that the Doctor should know Amy's pregnant - a not uncommon occurrence among the recently-married, I'd have thought. Well, she can plead her belly for a while but I still want to see her killed off.
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“Sing like no one's listening, love like you've never been hurt, dance like nobody's watching, and live like its heaven on earth.” - Mark Twain
Posts: 6477 | From: Alice's Restaurant (UK Franchise) | Registered: Sep 2005
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Emma Louise
Storm in a teapot
# 3571
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Posted
Both her and river song said they felt sick though didn't they? Whereas she just put it down to preggers?
Posts: 12719 | From: Enid Blyton territory. | Registered: Nov 2002
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mrs whibley
Shipmate
# 4798
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Posted
I get the feeling that either
Amy IS pregnant, and also has a nagging feeling that it is really really important that she tells the Doctor something, and has confused the two.
and/or
Both Amy and River are pregnant
In which case I really really hope they haven't been somehow impregnated by the aliens as I would have to stop watching the series forever in protest.
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I long for a faith that is gloriously treacherous - Mike Yaconelli
Posts: 942 | From: North Lincolnshire | Registered: Aug 2003
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Chapelhead
I am
# 21
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Posted
Like many others I felt that there was too much setting up future events and not enough happening 'now'. And also it looks too much like timey-wimey stuff is going to allow the Doctor to escape certain and permanent death (just as he did at the end of the last series).
I did like the line about the Jammie Dodgers and the fez, though.
The 'terrible thing' that River Song says she is going to do - will it be her in the spacesuit killing the doctor?
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At times like this I find myself thinking, what would the Amish do?
Posts: 9123 | From: Near where I was before. | Registered: Aug 2001
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
It also looked like much of the Richard Nixon aspects of that episode was teased out of the script during a rewrite. His only character development was by others. I suspect that character will get more in the second with a probable showing of him being a nasty dude.
That is in keeping with the hagiographic approach to historical figures. Apart from Victoria, every one of them was troubled but the greatest genius ever and there names will be known for all time, etc. etc. Don't think Nixon is going to get that, somehow.
I hope I'm wrong but right now, if this doesn't change, maybe the series needs a 3 year hiatus, and somebody to run the show who wasn't under Davies. I like Moffat compared to Davies but it is getting predictable, and Dr. Who should never be that.
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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
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iGeek
Number of the Feast
# 777
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
Don't think Nixon is going to get that, somehow.
Didn't Spock say, "Only Nixon could go to China"?
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posts: 2150 | From: West End, Gulfopolis | Registered: Aug 2002
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M.
Ship's Spare Part
# 3291
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Posted
Like mrs whibley, I wondered whether both Amy and River are supposed to be pregnant - they both started feeling sick after seeing the aliens. I also hope, really hope, that one or both is/are not pregnant by the aliens, that would just be a dreadful plot line (shades of Torchwood!)*. I hope it's all part of the deception - Amy has to tell the Doctor 'what he must know and what he must never know'. I assumed that the 'what he must never know' referred to his 'death'. But perhaps it refers to something else?
I was also slightly surprised that at the beginning of the episode, Amy and Rory weren't travelling with the Doctor, which is where we left them at the end of the Christmas special. And I am getting a bit sick of the 'Doctor being killed but not really' plotline too. There's no tension in it because you know he's not really dead.
But overall the episode did set up a good puzzle and I'm looking forward to next Saturday.
M.
*Perhaps they're both pregnant by the Doctor and one child will turn out to be Susan's mother/father!
Posts: 2303 | From: Lurking in Surrey | Registered: Sep 2002
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
I don't know how Amy would be able to know so quickly after seeing the aliens that she was pregnant. Like others, I also hope this isn't another "Gwen"-type storyline.
I'm still wondering whether River is a Time Lord. She did manage to leave a message for him in one episode in Gallifreyan.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
I'm still wondering whether River is a Time Lord. She did manage to leave a message for him in one episode in Gallifreyan.
I have totally wondered about that as well. All her fiddling around with the TARDIS hints at something of that nature.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
I also wondered whether Amy was pregnant by the Doctor. Maybe they did more than just kiss in the previous season. Is there any chance she will die in childbirth? She is the most annoying companion (since Adric?), and the sooner she snuffs it the better.
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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Roseofsharon
Shipmate
# 9657
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by M.:
Like mrs whibley, I wondered whether both Amy and River are supposed to be pregnant - they both started feeling sick after seeing the aliens.
The Doctor said that Amy had 'put on a couple of pounds' when they were having their picnic - just before the first sighting of an alien.
I took that to be a hint that she was pregnant.
I hadn't occurred to me that River Song might also be pregnant.
If she is, and by The Doctor, I wonder which of his incarnations might be responsible - the current one seems too innocent and childlike.
Or maybe that's me?
And like many of you, I thought it didn't stand up that well as an episode in its own right, but has set up various stands for the rest of the series.
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Posts: 3060 | From: Sussex By The Sea | Registered: Jun 2005
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
It seems that, quite often, the first eposide ( or episodes ) often seem to be poor from first view, but with hindsight, we see that it was necessary and significant.
I suspect that this is the case here too.
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Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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The Great Gumby
Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
I don't know how Amy would be able to know so quickly after seeing the aliens that she was pregnant. Like others, I also hope this isn't another "Gwen"-type storyline.
Well, seeing that they can mess with her head enough to make her forget them the moment she looks away, I don't see why it wouldn't be possible for them to implant the "knowledge" of her pregnancy in the same way. I hope that isn't what's going on, but it could be.
I'm hoping that the girl in the spacesuit is a young River Song, and that she'll end up killing herself to save the man she loves, even though he doesn't really know her yet. That would be typical of the noble, emotional self-sacrifice bollocks that Doctor Who seems to be all about these days, and would have the bonus of getting rid of the most annoyingly unnecessary character since Jar Jar Binks.
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The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman
A letter to my son about death
Posts: 5382 | From: Home for shot clergy spouses | Registered: Feb 2006
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by M.:
I hope it's all part of the deception - Amy has to tell the Doctor 'what he must know and what he must never know'. I assumed that the 'what he must never know' referred to his 'death'. But perhaps it refers to something else?
The whole "don't tell the Doctor he is going to die" is odd because the future Stetson Doctor apparently does know he is going to die, even to the point of arranging for the can of gasoline for the Viking funeral. Therefore, River's insistence that they can't tell him he is going to die struck me as illogical. They already know he will know about it in the future, so why not tell him now?
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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
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Bob Two-Owls
Shipmate
# 9680
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Posted
The whole thing was a big "meh!" from me. It is all relying on time-travel and gimmicky plot lines rather than the time-travel acting as a way of shifting the scene for each story.
Mind you it probably didn't help watching The Horror of Fang Rock and The Stones of Blood (Tom Baker at his best) just before watching the new episode.
Posts: 1262 | Registered: Jul 2005
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Eigon
Shipmate
# 4917
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Posted
He's arranged for his own death when he's 1100+ - which leaves plenty of time for him not to know what's going on beforehand, so they shouldn't tell him yet.
By the way, what's happened to the dead Doctor's Tardis? It must be sitting somewhere.
There are some interesting discussions going on at Tor.com blog. They seem to be going through the season episode by episode with a review, and there's an article today about how Stephen Moffat is subverting the laws of narrative which slightly made my head hurt.
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Laugh hard. Run fast. Be kind.
Posts: 3710 | From: Hay-on-Wye, town of books | Registered: Aug 2003
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eigon:
He's arranged for his own death when he's 1100+ - which leaves plenty of time for him not to know what's going on beforehand, so they shouldn't tell him yet.
Why not? Yes, plenty of time for him to find out, but the argument for not telling him is that they can't let him know about his future. But he IS going to know about his future, so the argument for not telling him now is complete bollocks. Yes, they have 200 years to let him know, but there is no logical reason for them not to tell him now since they already know the future Doctor will know about his death beforehand.
Which is an example of what I said in an earlier note--that there are very few writers who can handle temporal paradoxes and gets a satisfying logical resolution. There is no logical reason or argument NOT to tell the Doctor immediately about what they saw.
In fact, staying silent is even more odd when you realize that the only reason River, Rory & the Annoying One know about the supposed death is that the Stetson Doctor arranged for them to be there and then arranged for his younger self to meet up with them later! He deliberately created the very opportunity that they are refusing to use! Their silence should fall--by the wayside!
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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
He deliberately created the very opportunity that they are refusing to use!
Either future Doctor wanted them not to let past Doctor know, or he wanted them to let past Doctor know.
If he had wanted them to tell past self he didn't need to go to such trouble to make sure past self didn't know about future self. While if he didn't want past self to know he did need to go to that amount of trouble. The evidence therefore is more consistent with him not wanting past self to know.
In addition to not letting his past self know about his death, future self didn't let anyone know why he was arranging his death or who it was in the spacesuit or so on. So again, that's an argument against telling his past self.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
There is the idea that the knowledge of not telling the Doctor of his impending death is necessary in order to beat the bad monsters.
i.e. he knows in the future that by not telling him earlier, they actually defeat the baddies somehow.
What bugs me more about this is a Doctor not interested in who sent him the letter.
Therefore, I think his younger self sussed it out but also knows if he tells them he knows, they won't do the right things necessary to succeed.
And that would be getting the parodox right.
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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
Either future Doctor wanted them not to let past Doctor know, or he wanted them to let past Doctor know.
If he had wanted them to tell past self he didn't need to go to such trouble to make sure past self didn't know about future self. While if he didn't want past self to know he did need to go to that amount of trouble. The evidence therefore is more consistent with him not wanting past self to know.
In addition to not letting his past self know about his death, future self didn't let anyone know why he was arranging his death or who it was in the spacesuit or so on. So again, that's an argument against telling his past self.
Actually, that raises another issue. Stetson Doctor already knows whether they are going to tell him or not. He must have known that before he arranged anything, because he presumably remembers whether they told him or not.
So it follows that whether he "wanted" them to tell his younger self or not is irrelevant because he knows that they didn't--at least, not until they do either next episode or later in the season (depending on how much of a story arc this is supposed to be).
But my point really is not what Stetson Doctor wanted (as I said, it is already a done deal for him). My point is that there is no logic in River's position. She knows that future Docotr knows about his death ahead of time, so her arguing that she can't tell the Doctor that he is going to die in the future simply hold no water from her own perspective.
As you point out, they can't tell current Doctor other things like why he is arranging his own death or who is in the spacesuit--but I'd argue Stetson Doctor arranged it to keep secret things that he felt needed to be kept secret from himself, but let his companions know about the stuff that they could talk about. As the Doctor yelled at the Annoying One last season (in the Space Whale story) "You never get to decide what I should or should not know!" Of course, because AO is such a spacey ditz-brain, I am not surprised she doesn't remember that.
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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
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Paul.
Shipmate
# 37
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
But my point really is not what Stetson Doctor wanted (as I said, it is already a done deal for him). My point is that there is no logic in River's position. She knows that future Docotr knows about his death ahead of time, so her arguing that she can't tell the Doctor that he is going to die in the future simply hold no water from her own perspective.
You're forgetting her actual stated reason:
quote:
Amy: We have to tell him.
River: We've told him all we can. We can't even tell him we've seen his future self. He's interacted with his own past, it could rip a hole in the universe.
Amy: Yeah but he's done it before.
Rory: And in fairness the universe did blow up.
River's trying to minimize the amount of future-past interaction. Sure she knows that at some point the Doctor finds out, but she doesn't know how that happened and recklessly assuming it's ok to tell him when a rip in the universe is possible is risky to say the least.
Or in other words - "Don't cross the streams."
You can only dismiss River's logic if you know precisely how the future-past self-interaction causes a universe-rip and therefore whether it's safe to tell him something he will at some point know. Since we don't know how it works we can't do that. We have to assume - until shown otherwise - that River knows what she's talking about. Or thinks she does. Either way her logic from her own point of view is sound.
Posts: 3689 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2004
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Paul.
Shipmate
# 37
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Posted
Plot logic issues aside - I did enjoy the episode. It's clearly a part 1 of 2 so I wasn't too bothered that there was a lot of set-up. I thought the aliens were nice and scary. I like the idea of forgetting once you're not looking at them. ("They're behind you!") It's always nice to see Mark Shepard in anything. And it feels like River's actually a part of this story rather than just turning up as a familiar face.
Also, I thought Matt Smith was excellent. The scene just before the one I quote above, where he declines to trust River but Amy gets him to trust her with Fish Custard - you can see he's got more that the "mad professor" persona which he plays most of the time.
My one quibble - which is minor - is that the jammie-dodgers-and-a-fez line felt like it was shoe-horned in to make a good clip for the trailer.
Posts: 3689 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2004
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by wilson:
quote:
Amy: We have to tell him.
River: We've told him all we can. We can't even tell him we've seen his future self. He's interacted with his own past, it could rip a hole in the universe.
Amy: Yeah but he's done it before.
Rory: And in fairness the universe did blow up.
River's trying to minimize the amount of future-past interaction. Sure she knows that at some point the Doctor finds out, but she doesn't know how that happened and recklessly assuming it's ok to tell him when a rip in the universe is possible is risky to say the least.
Or in other words - "Don't cross the streams."
You can only dismiss River's logic if you know precisely how the future-past self-interaction causes a universe-rip and therefore whether it's safe to tell him something he will at some point know. Since we don't know how it works we can't do that. We have to assume - until shown otherwise - that River knows what she's talking about. Or thinks she does. Either way her logic from her own point of view is sound.
I am starting to wonder if this will tie into last season. If the Death Of The Doctor is a season-long plot device (instead of just the first two episodes) then maybe the season ends with the Doctor changing his future so that he does not die--but, instead of blowing up the universe the time distortion from this causes feedback to....blow up the TARDIS, finally explaining why the TARDIS exploded last season. The Doctor has already handled the consequences to Time from the exploding of the TARDIS, but we are left with the season-ending cliffhanger that the TARDIS is now bits of rubble and the Doctor is left without a TARDIS.
Actually, that would be kind of cool--the Doctor caused the cracks in time last season (just as the Daleks, et al. accused him of) by tinkering with time to avoid his own death. But he is willing to do it because he already knows that he has fixed the consequences of that act, but is left with the residue: being marooned in the Annoying One's time. Truly a fate worse than death!
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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
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The Revolutionist
Shipmate
# 4578
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Posted
I really enjoyed it. My theory is that the Doctor's death will somehow turn out to have been necessary to defeating the Silence, but that one of the Doctor's companions will change history to save him, which will allow the Silence to win, the universe to explode and all other manner of cliffhangery stuff for the Doctor to deal with.
Posts: 1296 | From: London | Registered: May 2003
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
Hmmm...I'm beginning to find these 'whole season story arcs' rather tedious. I primarily watch DW for entertainment not to try to remember what appears to be a minor detail in Episode #2 which turns out to be a major detail in Episode #9 or something.
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
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The Revolutionist
Shipmate
# 4578
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Posted
Personally, I find shows that invite close attention more entertaining. I prefer to have some kind of ongoing storyline, rather than just episodic monster-of-the-week stories. And it's a lot more interesting than the Russell T Davies device of just namedropping something that turns up in the finale - Bad Wolf, Torchwood, Mr Saxon and so on.
I don't think you need to spot all the connections to enjoy the stories - stuff like TARDIS-like ship from The Lodger turning up again in the current story, or the future Doctor popping up in Flesh and Stone are nice added extras if you notice them, but the stories don't depend on the small details.
All the important stuff usually gets recapped either in a "Previously on..." montage or within the stories themselves. The Impossible Astronaut included explanations of the Doctor's relationship to River, for example. I don't think it's particularly hard to keep up.
Posts: 1296 | From: London | Registered: May 2003
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
Hmmm...I'm beginning to find these 'whole season story arcs' rather tedious. I primarily watch DW for entertainment not to try to remember what appears to be a minor detail in Episode #2 which turns out to be a major detail in Episode #9 or something.
I must admit that for me, that's the least attractive feature of the post-2005 series. Story arcs were rarely used in the old show - the Key to Time being the main exception, with shorter arcs being a bit more common, such as the E-space stories and the crew's separation from the TARDIS between Ark in Space and Revenge of the Cybermen. I suppose you could think of the Third Doctor's exile on Earth as a story arc, or the First Doctor's inability to get his companions home, but that would be stretching it.
One of the reasons I don't watch much American tv drama is that it's usually into story arcs in a big way, and if I miss an episode I feel I won't be able to catch up. Story arcs are much less friendly to the casual viewer.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Sparrow
Shipmate
# 2458
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Posted
Has anyone else been to see the Doctor Who Experience at Olympia! Excellent, especially the interactive walk-through at the beginning in which you operate the Tardis, meet Daleks, and then a very scary (for the little ones anyway) 3-D bit.
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For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life,nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Posts: 3149 | From: Bottom right hand corner of the UK | Registered: Mar 2002
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
One of the problems I had with the start of the newer style series is that there seemed to be a focus on a single episode adventure. Whereas the older style would have an adventure over 6 weeks, giving far more opportunity to develop ideas. So the story arc stretching across a whole series is a good compromise.
And whats this about missing any? That is what V+ is for. And Catchup. And the internet. And +1. And the other stuff in the digital TV revolution.
( I am going to be away for the next week including the next two weekends, and I will have SO much to catch up on when I get back. )
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
And whats this about missing any? That is what V+ is for. And Catchup. And the internet. And +1. And the other stuff in the digital TV revolution.
The only one of those I've heard of is the internet.
(And I'll have you know that I had to get up super-early to watch this episode on iPlayer, to benefit from "free" download time, otherwise it would have eaten a large hole in my monthly bandwidth allowance. We don't get any freeview channels yet in this area, so repeats on BBC3 or BBC4 are no use to me, and my VCR isn't working. We don't all live in the fast lane.)
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Jabber
Shipmate
# 9668
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by wilson:
My one quibble - which is minor - is that the jammie-dodgers-and-a-fez line felt like it was shoe-horned in to make a good clip for the trailer.
Such a good line, even if shoe-horned!
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
Hmmm...I'm beginning to find these 'whole season story arcs' rather tedious. I primarily watch DW for entertainment not to try to remember what appears to be a minor detail in Episode #2 which turns out to be a major detail in Episode #9 or something.
I no longer have the memory for small details, so I would much prefer individual episode stories.
Posts: 153 | From: North West England | Registered: Jun 2005
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tessaB
Shipmate
# 8533
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Posted
I've just thought, River talked about how her and the Doctor are meeting up out of time and there will come a time when she will look into his eyes and he wont recognise her. She says she thinks that might kill her. But, didn't we see his first meeting with her (although she knew him) in The Library episode? Actually thinking more (should have done that before I started posting) it sort of did kill her didn't it? Have I completely lost my marbly bits or did she end up in the computer?
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tessaB
eating chocolate to the glory of God
Holiday cottage near Rye
Posts: 1068 | From: U.K. | Registered: Sep 2004
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by tessaB:
Actually thinking more it sort of did kill her didn't it? Have I completely lost my marbly bits or did she end up in the computer?
You haven't lost anything. It's dramatic irony.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
quote:
Originally posted by tessaB:
Actually thinking more it sort of did kill her didn't it? Have I completely lost my marbly bits or did she end up in the computer?
You haven't lost anything. It's dramatic irony.
That's one way to put it, yes.
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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
And whats this about missing any? That is what V+ is for. And Catchup. And the internet. And +1. And the other stuff in the digital TV revolution.
The only one of those I've heard of is the internet.
(And I'll have you know that I had to get up super-early to watch this episode on iPlayer, to benefit from "free" download time, otherwise it would have eaten a large hole in my monthly bandwidth allowance. We don't get any freeview channels yet in this area, so repeats on BBC3 or BBC4 are no use to me, and my VCR isn't working. We don't all live in the fast lane.)
This was also dramatic irony. Or something. I realise that not everyone has access to these, but I suspect a significant proportion of DW fans do, and the internet discussion is an important part of the development of the plot, becasue there are those little teasers that the producers are, I am sure, watching to see if anyone noticed.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
Dull and incomprehensible. Has the series now jumped the shark?
[ 30. April 2011, 18:51: Message edited by: Robert Armin ]
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
Why oh why does Rory not get wise to himself and just dump Amy Pond (preferably out of the nearest airlock)? What a doormat.
The storyline seemed a bit fragmented with enough loose ends that it was at times a bit difficult to know which plotline was going where. Still, River Song is still easily the best thing about the episode and the little Time Lady is intriguing so next week might be interesting. If I could remember what it was going to be about.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Ferijen
Shipmate
# 4719
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Posted
Torches, rain, a mysterious child, an auburn, suited investigator, paranoid aliens everywhere, even the FBI....
Serious channelling of the X files... A great series which disappeared up it's own bottom.
Though, for what it's worth, I liked tonight's resolution for dealing with the aliens. Not so keen on all the relationship stuff - I don't want 2D characters but I really don't want to spend early Saturday evenings wondering who is sleeping with who, and when, in an increasingly convoluted timeline.
I'm assuming some timey wimey stuff will sort out the Doctors death.
Posts: 3259 | From: UK | Registered: Jul 2003
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
I didn't even like the resolution. These aliens have been around for million of years, humans can't detect them but have to obey their orders. And they get destroyed by one grainy TV broadcast? Somehow I don't think so.
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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The Great Gumby
Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
Dull and incomprehensible. Has the series now jumped the shark?
I'll give you incomprehensible, mainly because there's apparently still a huge amount to be revealed about the Silence, Amy's baby, the Doctor's death and assorted stuff, but dull?
The Silence, which had been underwhelming on last week's evidence, turned out to be truly scary when the full scale of their ability to mess with your head became apparent. The idea that you could effectively be a slave without knowing it because of their subliminal suggestions is deeply disturbing, and the scene when Amy was in the attic with them sleeping on the ceiling would grace any horror film.
It wasn't perfect - huge time lapses mid-story are rarely a good idea, the Amy and Rory soap opera is very tiresome, and I really hope Audrey Niffenegger isn't overly litigious, or isn't aware of River Song. But it delivered more than I dared to hope for after last week's scene setting, and I've gone from cautious patience to optimistic anticipation of the rest of the series.
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The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman
A letter to my son about death
Posts: 5382 | From: Home for shot clergy spouses | Registered: Feb 2006
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Avila
Shipmate
# 15541
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Avila:
Think I will have to watch this one a couple of times...
Came in from busy day as it started and my brain not up to it
ok with rested brain could follow the jumps and even the logic - though feeling abit like after a meal out with a niggling unsatisifed mood, expecting more? better resolution?
Series long story arc is one thing but don't lose the sense of each episode having a beginning middle and end. This seemed all arc. Who is the girl, baby or not, who is River, and how will they stop the spacesuited one killing the Dr. ... too many threads in one go I think. Do they think one or two is not strong enough to hold our interest?
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http://aweebleswonderings.blogspot.com/
Posts: 1305 | From: west midlands | Registered: Mar 2010
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Eigon
Shipmate
# 4917
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Posted
I think there's still a lot of misdirection going on in there - just because there's a photo of Amy with a baby doesn't mean she's the mother - there's a similar picture of me with my nephew, after all.
But there does only seem to be one Time Lord in the universe (unless the Master is still about somehow).
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Laugh hard. Run fast. Be kind.
Posts: 3710 | From: Hay-on-Wye, town of books | Registered: Aug 2003
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Paul.
Shipmate
# 37
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Posted
So if the Silence[1] have been around since before the wheel have they been wearing those natty black suits all that time? I guess as well as all the rest of human endeavour - science, commerce, technology - they were influencing fashion too.
Agree about Rory. The only reason we keep getting scenes where Amy declares her undying love is for him ("Stupid!") is because there's no evidence of it in her actions.
Oh and disembodied frightened voices coming from flashing LED devices and mysterious close-visor-ed spacesuits chasing our heroes? Seems like we've been here before.
I must admit I was hoping for a little more closure. I suspected there'd be some stuff left for the rest of the series but I thought we'd find out who the girl is, or more about the Doctor's "death".[2] I do hope we're not going to get lots of scenes in future episodes where the Doctor makes comments about the future/death/whatever and Amy and Rory exchange meaningful, slightly sad glances.
Less satisfying than I hoped based on last week. I wouldn't say we've jumped the shark yet, but we've definitely skipped over the fishpond.
[1]or perhaps that should be "the Silents" as the Doctor tells them at one point to "keep a Silent in your eyeline at all times".
[2]Sorry, it gets scare quotes until I know for sure it's permanent.
Posts: 3689 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2004
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Ann
Curious
# 94
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Posted
The scanner seemed to be doing a Wheel of Fortune act on Amy's pregnancy - and just after the Doctor had declared, "You only live once!"
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Ann
Posts: 3271 | From: IO 91 PI | Registered: May 2001
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The Rogue
Shipmate
# 2275
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Posted
Youngest Rogueling found the Silences very scary indeed. Unfortunately our sofa is set right against the wall so she had nowhere to hide!
I loved the solution of having the Silence on the moon landing coverage - very neat.
The Doctor told Amy he was 200 years older when he was killed but doesn't he have a track record for lying?
The child appears to be a Time Lord because she regenerates. Is she a Doctor's child? Is she another Time Lord (The Master or Omega for instance)?
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If everyone starts thinking outside the box does outside the box come back inside?
Posts: 2507 | From: Toton | Registered: Feb 2002
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by wilson:
Oh and disembodied frightened voices coming from flashing LED devices and mysterious close-visor-ed spacesuits chasing our heroes? Seems like we've been here before.
We have been here before and I'm wondering if this is deliberate, because it echoes the scene in which River Song first appears, way back in the Donna Noble days, in the Library. There was the Walking Spacesuit of Death, River introducing herself as an archaeologist, and blasting a few creaturoids, if I remember correctly. In which case we may just be about to see the last of River. ![[Waterworks]](graemlins/bawling.gif)
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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The Revolutionist
Shipmate
# 4578
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Posted
That was brilliant! I love Moffat's approach to Doctor Who. Although he perhaps overuses certain concepts and devices, he usually recombines them in interesting and different ways.
It was a clever way for the Doctor to set back the Silence's plans - though there was one around in 2011 in the previous episode, so they can't have been completely defeated. I'm certain we haven't seen the last of the Silence.
There were so many intriguing elements... who was the Eye Patch Woman? What's up with Amy's pregnancy? And who is the child? So many mysteries, it's great.
It did move rather quickly, and required quite close attention and joining of the dots to make sense of the plot. The cliffhanger resolution in particular was filled in rather briefly and oddly. I think I followed it all, just about, but I hope it isn't this dense every week. It's definitely written for the iPlayer/boxset age, designed to reward repeated and attentive viewing. I like that approach, but I don't think Doctor Who should go too far down that route.
But a few quibbles aside, a confident, exciting opener that sets up the rest of the series nicely. Great stuff.
Posts: 1296 | From: London | Registered: May 2003
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
The Great Gumby (and probably others) - I found it dull because things just didn't hang together. Why were Amy and the-nice-American in the spooky old home anyway? Yes, that whole section looked great, but it was dull for me because it didn't fit - it felt as though it had been inserted at random. Too much happening at once can be as dull as too little. This espisode did not cohere, to me, and I am a long time fan. (Currently thinking about getting two kittens and calling them William and Patrick.)
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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