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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Eccles: Books any self-respecting Anglo-Catholic [priest] should have
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Nunc Dimittis
Seamstress of Sound
# 848
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Posted
While perusing Ritual Notes re the ceremonies for the Easter Vigil, it occurred to me that one really needs not just the Notes, but the Ritual (ie, the actual prayers, not just the abbreviations used to refer to them). Which book is this?
And what others are non-negotiables?
Ritual Notes
The Parson's Handbook
BCP 1928 (not the ECUSA one)
BCP 1928 (the ECUSA one)
BCP 1662
and?
And where can you get them from? I only have a photocopy of Ritual Notes which is looking tatty and sad...
[ 22. October 2009, 07:36: Message edited by: Think² ]
Posts: 9515 | From: Delta Quadrant | Registered: Jul 2001
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FreeJack
Shipmate
# 10612
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Posted
You appear to have forgotten to include the Church of England's Alternative Service Book 1980 in your list.
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Nunc Dimittis
Seamstress of Sound
# 848
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Posted
*nods*
But being Down Under, I have multiple copies of AAPB 1978 and APBA 1995.
Posts: 9515 | From: Delta Quadrant | Registered: Jul 2001
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seasick
...over the edge
# 48
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Posted
English Missal? English Ritual?
Why do you need a copy of the ASB to be a self-respecting Anglo-Catholic priest?
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We believe there is, and always was, in every Christian Church, ... an outward priesthood, ordained by Jesus Christ, and an outward sacrifice offered therein. - John Wesley
Posts: 5769 | From: A world of my own | Registered: May 2001
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
Sarum Missal.
As for Ritual Notes, until very recently, it was available from the publishing wing of the Anglican Catholic Church, as it is the standard ceremonial book of that church. It doesn't appear to be listed on their site but it's worth enquiring. I don't now which edition but I'm sure they would tell you if you were to ask. It may have been just a limited edition reprint.
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
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Erconwald
Shipmate
# 10918
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Posted
The 1894 edition of Ritual Notes is now online at Project Canterbury, so you do not have own it. However, many Anglo-Catholics would insist that Fortescue (The Ceremonies of the Roman Rite Described) is the preferred guide to ceremonial. I do not have it, but Amazon has a copy available for a tidy USD99.95.
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Erconwald:
The 1894 edition of Ritual Notes is now online at Project Canterbury, so you do not have own it. However, many Anglo-Catholics would insist that Fortescue (The Ceremonies of the Roman Rite Described) is the preferred guide to ceremonial.
I suppose that depeneds on the flavour of Anglo-Catholic. Some would consider it a rather expensive doorstop.
quote:
I do not have it, but Amazon has a copy available for a tidy USD99.95.
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
I got mine about three years ago from my local Christian bookshop for about £15. It was the 1996 reprint from St Austin's Press. How on earth has Amazon got away with charging that much?
[ 11. March 2006, 09:57: Message edited by: Back-to-Front ]
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
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cocktailgirl
mixer of the drinks
# 8684
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Posted
Michno's A Priest's Handbook has some good stuff in it (though it's geared towards the ECUSA BCP).
And obviously you meant to include Common Worship but just forgot, yes? ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
Posts: 841 | From: in hac lacrimarum valle, propping up the bar | Registered: Oct 2004
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Fermat
Shipmate
# 4894
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Back-to-Front:
I got mine about three years ago from my local Christian bookshop for about £15. It was the 1996 reprint from St Austin's Press. How on earth has Amazon got away with charging that much?
[gloat]
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) I picked up my copy of Fortescue, fifth edition, 1934, from a wonderful second hand bookshop for just £3.50. I'm still smiling I also got Ritual notes and the Dearmer from the same place, for £2.50 and £1 respectively. All in pretty good condition.
[/gloat]
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
Good man!
My copy of The Parson's Handbook (12th ed.) was £12.50, second-hand in and good condition, but nothing like the bargain you got. It took the shop a while to get hold of it, though, but they came up trumps.
However, my Fortescue wasn't second-hand but was a new copy, bought straight off the shelf. I'm still trying to figure out how Amazon can charge that much. Is this particular edition jewel-encrusted or something?
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
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FreeJack
Shipmate
# 10612
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by seasick:
English Missal? English Ritual?
Why do you need a copy of the ASB to be a self-respecting Anglo-Catholic priest?
Sorry, my weak attempt at humour obviously failed to get a chuckle.
I suppose there is a philosophical question about whether a priest should want to have self-respect at all. To what extent is self-respect a good quality ?
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Divine Office
Shipmate
# 10558
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Posted
It was a reprint of the eleventh edition of Ritual Notes which the ACC sold. I believe this was the final one, first published in 1964, I think. I obtained a copy from them last year; it is quite a good reprint with some interesting photographs of a Mass in St Alban, Holborn.
As already mentioned, it does not appear to be advertised on their sales website at the present time, but it might still be worth enquiring if it is still available.
Farnborough Abbey Press published a brand new edition of Ceremonies of the Roman Rite Described two or three years ago, with revisions by Dom Alcuin Reid. It is basically an updated version of the 1962 edition which takes into consideration more recent legislation in the RC Church, such as the reduced time for fasting before communion. Check out the Farnborough Abbey website at www.farnboroughabbey.org.
I used to have a copy of the edition published by St Austin Press in 1996, but gave it away when the Farnborough Abbey Press edition came out. The St Austin Press edition is now out of print; it was basically a straight reprint of the 1962 edition of Fortescue/O'Connell.
DIVINE OFFICE
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seasick
...over the edge
# 48
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Posted
quote:
Jonathan the Free said:
Sorry, my weak attempt at humour obviously failed to get a chuckle.
Oic, sorry. I will wind the clockwork on my irony meter and oil the mechanism...
quote:
I suppose there is a philosophical question about whether a priest should want to have self-respect at all. To what extent is self-respect a good quality ?
One for another thread, methinks.
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We believe there is, and always was, in every Christian Church, ... an outward priesthood, ordained by Jesus Christ, and an outward sacrifice offered therein. - John Wesley
Posts: 5769 | From: A world of my own | Registered: May 2001
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by seasick:
quote:
Jonathan the Free said:
...
[QUOTE]I suppose there is a philosophical question about whether a priest should want to have self-respect at all. To what extent is self-respect a good quality ?
One for another thread, methinks.
I've started one.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Corpus cani
Ship's Anachronism
# 1663
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Posted
I have a copy of "A Manual for Priests of the American Church" [4th Ed. 1961] byEarle Hewitt Maddux SSJE. It has some handy blessings in.
Mycopy used to belong to the Bishop of Nassau and I picked it up in a bookshop for £2.
Corpus
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Bishop Lord Corpus Cani the Tremulous of Buzzing St Helens.
Posts: 4435 | From: Trumpton | Registered: Nov 2001
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Comper's Child
Shipmate
# 10580
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Posted
Directorium Anglicanum, of course, though they're scarce as hen's teeth.
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Triple Tiara
Ship's Papabile
# 9556
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Posted
Oh come on boys and girls, lance the boil.... you know there is this book and none other that, secretly, you all really really want to use
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I'm a Roman. You may call me Caligula.
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Triple Tiara:
Oh come on boys and girls, lance the boil.... you know there is this book and none other that, secretly, you all really really want to use
We do use this, or the celebrant does at least, at many low Masses. Just the introit, communion verse, offertory prayer, postcommunion prayer...and mostly on holy days. The bulk of the rite is Rite II from the 1979 USA BCP.
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
I've heard it rumoured that the Bible can come in handy from time to time... ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Flinging wide the gates...
Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by dj_ordinaire:
I've heard it rumoured that the Bible can come in handy from time to time...
Yes...in the class held before High Mass.
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
I was thinking of a film where a Bible deflected a bullet from it's owner actually...
(and I understand that cigarette cases will also work...)
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Flinging wide the gates...
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
So are anglo-catholic priests to be stereotypes as only collecting books about ceremonial and tat?
I'd hope they had some books about pastoral care and politics as well. The catholic movement is incarnational - remember the great speech by Bp. Frank Weston of Zanzibar telling us us to come out from our tabernacles into the slums of the poor.
Here endeth the rant.
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
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FreeJack
Shipmate
# 10612
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Triple Tiara:
Oh come on boys and girls, lance the boil.... you know there is this book and none other that, secretly, you all really really want to use
No, they are waiting for Benedict XVI to bring back the Tridentine Mass in regular use first.
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Adrian1
Shipmate
# 3994
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Posted
How about:
1) Canon Belton's 'Manual for Confessors'
2) 'Anglican Altar Services 1941'
3) 'The English Liturgy' (Rivingtons) - edited by Percy Dearmer
4) Alciun Club 'Directory of English Ceremonial'
5) 'Hours of Prayer' adapted from the Sarum rite.
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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The Parson's Handbook contains much excellent advice, which, if it were more generally followed, would bring some order and reasonableness into the amazing vagaries of Anglican Ritualism. Adrian Fortescue
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The Gentle Duffie
Shipmate
# 10901
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Posted
Is this thread limited to liturgical books?
If it's not, Martin Thornton's writings (Christian Proficiency, Prayer: A New Encounter, Pastoral Theology: A Reorientation et al.) should be on the short list of books any self-respecting Anglo-Catholic [priest] should have.
Also, Geoffrey Rowell's The Vision Glorious.
And Glorious Battle, by John Shelton Reed.
Merrily on High, by Colin Stephenson.
The Oxford Movement in Context, by Peter Nockles.
This could become a very long list in very short order.
Posts: 266 | From: Foreign Parts | Registered: Jan 2006
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Maniple
Shipmate
# 2237
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Posted
Just a sample from my bookshelf:
Not all liturgy/ritual.
Ceremonies of the Modern Roman Rite - Elliot
Ceremonies of the Liturgical Year - Elliott
The Ritual Reason Why: What mean ye by this service - Fr Charles Walker
GIRM
Book of Blessings
The Englih Ritual
Lent, Holy Week & Easter
Butler's Lives of the Saints
The English Catholic Prayerbook
The Anglo-Catholic Prayerbook
Fr Ted Scripts
Merrily on High - Fr Colin Stephenson
Walsingham Way - Fr Colin Stephenson
The Parson's Progress - Compton Mackenzie
The Altar Steps - Compton Mackenzie
The Heavenly Ladder - Compton Mackenzie
There are lots more.
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No Maniple, No Mass.
Better Together.
Posts: 178 | From: La Casa del Caffe Tazza d'Oro | Registered: Jan 2002
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Maniple
Shipmate
# 2237
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Posted
PS
Elements of Rite - Aidan Kavanagh
How not to say Mass - Dennis Smolarski
(they were hiding behind my pope-soap-on-a-rope!)
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No Maniple, No Mass.
Better Together.
Posts: 178 | From: La Casa del Caffe Tazza d'Oro | Registered: Jan 2002
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Corpus cani
Ship's Anachronism
# 1663
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Posted
[The Corporeal shower cubicle is also equipped with a Pope-on-a-rope, but I don't have any books in the shower!]
Corpus
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Bishop Lord Corpus Cani the Tremulous of Buzzing St Helens.
Posts: 4435 | From: Trumpton | Registered: Nov 2001
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Max.
Shipmate
# 5846
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Triple Tiara:
Oh come on boys and girls, lance the boil.... you know there is this book and none other that, secretly, you all really really want to use
What about the fish book?
-103
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For the sake of His sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.
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Maniple
Shipmate
# 2237
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by 103 (One-O-Three):
What about the fish book?
It was on my original list - GIRM.
But I did forget the other fish book, not by the one by J R Hartley but the accompanying volume Celebraing the Mass.
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No Maniple, No Mass.
Better Together.
Posts: 178 | From: La Casa del Caffe Tazza d'Oro | Registered: Jan 2002
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Max.
Shipmate
# 5846
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Maniple:
quote:
Originally posted by 103 (One-O-Three):
What about the fish book?
It was on my original list - GIRM.
But I did forget the other fish book, not by the one by J R Hartley but the accompanying volume Celebraing the Mass.
Oh - I'm sorry, I didn't read it properly - I normally only called it the fish book
I also have a book called "The Rite Stuff" by Pete Ward... but my taste in books isn't always what a self-respecting AC would want to have
-103
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For the sake of His sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.
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Maniple
Shipmate
# 2237
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by 103 (One-O-Three):
I also have a book called "The Rite Stuff" by Pete Ward... but my taste in books isn't always what a self-respecting AC would want to have
Surely after "Liquid Church" a better title for the above book would have been "Liquid Liturgy".
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No Maniple, No Mass.
Better Together.
Posts: 178 | From: La Casa del Caffe Tazza d'Oro | Registered: Jan 2002
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Max.
Shipmate
# 5846
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Maniple:
quote:
Originally posted by 103 (One-O-Three):
I also have a book called "The Rite Stuff" by Pete Ward... but my taste in books isn't always what a self-respecting AC would want to have
Surely after "Liquid Church" a better title for the above book would have been "Liquid Liturgy".
No he can't - I own that domain too!
-103
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For the sake of His sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.
Posts: 9716 | From: North Yorkshire | Registered: May 2004
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Divine Office
Shipmate
# 10558
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Posted
quote:
Oh come on boys and girls, lance the boil... you know there is this book and none other that, secretly, you all really want to use
I have two editions of the book in question. The latest one has the daily readings in a more managable format than the previous one, which required a good deal of page turning at daily Masses. The earlier one did have the Jerusalem Bible readings, though, which are used in the UK and Ireland. The latest edition has the New American Bible readings.
DIVINE OFFICE
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mgeorge
Shipmate
# 10487
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Posted
Plenty of mysteries. Every priest I've known loves mysteries!
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Monty
Shipmate
# 9227
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Posted
Any good AC would also have Rose Macaulay's "The Towers of Trebizond." Absolutely necessary.
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I too am High, even extreme, but somewhat lapsed, which is a sound position, as you belong to the best section of the best branch of the Christian Church, but seldom attend its services. Rose Macaulay
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Lamburnite
Shipmate
# 9516
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Posted
A.N. Wilson's Unguarded Hours is wonderful, if very difficult to obtain. I'm waiting to borrow a copy of his Kindly Light -- we'll see if that deserves to be on the list.
Trollope's Barchester novels.
The Golden Legend.
The Liber Usualis and/or the Graduale Romanum.
By the way, the Reid revision of Ceremonies of the Roman Rite is no fun at all -- he has erased all of Fortescue's good humor and encased everything in bureaucracy. Better to find an older edition.
[ 12. March 2006, 03:45: Message edited by: Lamburnite ]
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Bernard Mahler
Shipmate
# 10852
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Posted
Yea, verily to "The Towers of Trebizond".
I have ownded about five copies, all 'retained' by larcenous AC's to whom I have lent them.
What about Gregory Dix's "Shape of the Liturgy" as a good background to what is being done?
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"What does it matter? All is grace" Georges Bernanos
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Nunc Dimittis
Seamstress of Sound
# 848
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Posted
I've just ordered Shape of the Liturgy - it's a text for one of my subjects this year.
If we're going more general than liturgy books, then I'd hope a fair few of you would have the complete Susan Howatch books.
I have the Liber Usualis - thanks to a very generous benefactor who shall remain nameless - as it is useful for any self-respecting composer.
Posts: 9515 | From: Delta Quadrant | Registered: Jul 2001
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Corpus cani
Ship's Anachronism
# 1663
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Posted
The Claims of the Church of England, Garbett, Cyril (++Cyril Ebor); Hodder & Stoughton, 1947.
The Ornaments of the Ministers Dearmer, Percy; Mowbrays, 2nd Ed. 1920.
The Story of the Prayerbook Dearmer, Percy; OUP, 1933.
Oxford University Sermons (1826-1843) Newman, John Henry; Longmans, 1892.
Sermons on Subjects of the Day Newman, John Henry; Rivingtons, 1871.
The Body of Christ Gore, Charles; John Murray, 3rd Ed. 1902.
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Bishop Lord Corpus Cani the Tremulous of Buzzing St Helens.
Posts: 4435 | From: Trumpton | Registered: Nov 2001
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Divine Office
Shipmate
# 10558
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Posted
I have a reprint of the 1961 edition of the Liber Usualis, which I think was the last one. This is not the edition with the rubrics in English which was reprinted by St Bonaventure Press, but is an all-Latin edition which I think may have been produced under the auspices of the SSPX.
I also have the current Solesmes editions of the Gradual Romanum, the Liber Hymnarius, and the Gregorian Missal.
I woud think that some Anglo-Catholic priests would also want to have the current RC Divine Office in three volumes, and no doubt a good variety of prayer manuals, such as A Manual of Catholic Devotion, first published by the CLA in 1950 with the last edition in 1969.
And what about The English Office, now that it has been reprinted?
DIVINE OFFICE
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by 103 (One-O-Three):
I also have a book called "The Rite Stuff" by Pete Ward... but my taste in books isn't always what a self-respecting AC would want to have
-103
There's a lot of good material in 'The Rite Stuff'.
A 'Catholic' (big C) is world embracing so doesn't have to use exclusively catholic (small c) stuff.
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
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Adrian1
Shipmate
# 3994
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Posted
Nunc Dimittis wrote:
[QUOTE]If we're going more general than liturgy books, then I'd hope a fair few of you would have the complete Susan Howatch books. [QUOTE]
I have the complete set of Starbridge novels. They're very good but also very much of their time. Cosmo, I think will understand. After all, I think it was he who ordered the discreet investigation of Jardine's affairs at Starbridge if I remember correctly.
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The Parson's Handbook contains much excellent advice, which, if it were more generally followed, would bring some order and reasonableness into the amazing vagaries of Anglican Ritualism. Adrian Fortescue
Posts: 1986 | From: UK | Registered: Jan 2003
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Comper's Child
Shipmate
# 10580
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Posted
Not sure is anyone else mentioned the recently re-printed Anglican Breviary (pub by the Frank Gavin Foundation). Nicely done up! Even this layman finds it very useful!
Posts: 2509 | From: Penn's Greene Countrie Towne | Registered: Oct 2005
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Maniple
Shipmate
# 2237
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamburnite:
A.N. Wilson's Unguarded Hours is wonderful, if very difficult to obtain. I'm waiting to borrow a copy of his Kindly Light -- we'll see if that deserves to be on the list.
Unguarded Hours and Kindly Light are silly but have amusing bits.
In particular the opening line of Unguarded Hours - "Had the Dean's daughter worn a bra that afternoon, Norman Shotover might never have found about the Church of England; still less about how to fly."
The Vicar of Sorrows is one of Wilson's better religious books. Look out for the mention of a previous Bishop of London by his name in religion......
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No Maniple, No Mass.
Better Together.
Posts: 178 | From: La Casa del Caffe Tazza d'Oro | Registered: Jan 2002
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magnum mysterium
Shipmate
# 3418
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Divine Office:
and no doubt a good variety of prayer manuals, such as A Manual of Catholic Devotion, first published by the CLA in 1950 with the last edition in 1969.
There's also a more recent updated version of this, the Manual of Anglo-Catholic Devotion. Not sure of the publication details, but the hardback has a purple cover.
[ 12. March 2006, 22:15: Message edited by: Magnum Mysterium ]
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Corpus cani
Ship's Anachronism
# 1663
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Magnum Mysterium:
quote:
Originally posted by Divine Office:
and no doubt a good variety of prayer manuals, such as A Manual of Catholic Devotion, first published by the CLA in 1950 with the last edition in 1969.
There's also a more recent updated version of this, the Manual of Anglo-Catholic Devotion. Not sure of the publication details, but the hardback has a purple cover.
Not that it matters at all but... my original copy of A Manual of Catholic Devotion had a purple cover and my 1969 replacement version has a green cover. Adds a whole new concept to judging clergy- "What colour does he wear during Lent?" - "What colour does he wear to funerals?" - "What colour is his Manual of Catholic Devotion?"
Corpus
[Purple, Black, Green, in that order.]
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Bishop Lord Corpus Cani the Tremulous of Buzzing St Helens.
Posts: 4435 | From: Trumpton | Registered: Nov 2001
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