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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Difficult relatives
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JoannaP
Shipmate
# 4493
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leaf:
This dynamic is so well-known that in online discussions about narcissists, there are codes for them: GC (Golden Child) and SG (Scape Goat).
An example from an ACoN (Adult Child of Narcissist) might run: "So my GC brother told my SG youngest sister..."
I believe that I am an ACoN but I am an only child so have nobody to compare notes with ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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"Freedom for the pike is death for the minnow." R. H. Tawney (quoted by Isaiah Berlin)
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin
Posts: 1877 | From: England | Registered: May 2003
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
I reckoned when I pulled myself out of the family dynamic I was casting myself as the permanent Scape Goat, but at least it allowed my sisters to bask in Golden Child status rather than continue having to take it in turns to be cast as Scape Goat.
Not sure how long that dynamic worked for, mind you. The lack of information to use for scapegoating must make that challenging.
Families and how to survive them, iirc, suggested that this behaviour of scapegoating was something to do with the inability to own one's own behaviour, so you have to "other" it and the scapegoat is chosen as the one demonstrating the disapproved of behaviour and allowed the family members involved to not face up to their own behaviours, but other them.
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
The last time my sister and I spoke, a few weeks ago now, she told me repeatedly that my apologies were useless as they meant nothing. She also told me, repeatedly, that there was no point in our ever speaking again. My conclusion from this was that I would not be welcome at her house on Christmas Day, when I was planning to take Mum there and back. I did offer to transport Mum, so that she could see her grandchildren, but Mum refused to let any member of the family be on their own for Christmas.
Yesterday this came up in a conversation between my mother and sister. My sister's response? Floods of tears. The children will be so disappointed. I've already bought all the food. How can you be so selfish? Honestly, if it didn't upset Mum so much it would be comical. As it is, an 87 yr old woman is getting very upset when my sister should be talking to me as I'm the one who has upset her.
On the whole I think I shouldn't contact my sister until she's calmed down enough to say we need to talk. However, to try to get the pressure off Mum, I did ring her this afternoon - and left a message on her answerphone. Not sure what the next move will be, but I'm hanging on to my seat.
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Sounds to me like your sister is still game-playing.
She's bought all the food? For Christmas? Rubbish - not unless its all in the freezer (So SHE goes to Iceland) because nothing fresh bought today or earlier is going to last up to the 25th or 26th. Or is she planning to give everyone a case of festive food poisoning?
And if your mother is 87 then the 'children' are hardly babes-in-arms whether upset or not.
This is just more emotional blackmail.
You need to decide whether or not a Christmas truce is worth it or not - and that includes the pressure it will put on you. From an outsider's POV I'd say the portents aren't favourable...
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
What's stopping Sis from picking up Mom herself?
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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mark_in_manchester
not waving, but...
# 15978
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Posted
quote:
but Mum refused to let any member of the family be on their own for Christmas.
I think if it were me, I would 'find some volunteering' which needed doing amongst the unfortunate on the 25th, and make gracious apologies to my Mother. And perhaps offer the lift all the same.
Game-players need to know their words will be taken at face value and acted upon. Or perhaps rather - we the recipients need to take them at face value and act on them, lest we drive ourselves half-mad trying to second-guess what the control games are all about. Life is, as we often say, too short.
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"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)
Posts: 1596 | Registered: Oct 2010
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
It's very true. I try to take gameplayers at their word also, and look innocent when they say I should have known better. But I'm sorry, Robert, that this crap is raining down on you right now. Just what you so don't need, particularly when you want to shelter your mom from it and can't.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
Taking her game playing at face value is exactly what I'm trying to do: I'm taking her words more seriously than she does. As for her (or husband, or one the kids - 24 and 27) picking her up, that is impossible. If they did that they wouldn't be able to have a drink with the meal, which they DESERVE!
Many thanks for all kind words.
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Jesus wept. What a piece of work
Prayers for all of us out there whose relatives are gonna do their level best to make everyone around them miserable these holidays. May joy find us somehow. And may an outbreak of laryngitis sweep all the right people.
[ 18. December 2014, 15:47: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
This time of year must be especially difficult. I hope and pray you all get through it without too much pain and agony. ![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif)
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
This is the time of year when I sometimes get a weakening of the resolve and think of sending the oldest sibling a card.
I gave in to the impulse once, about 8 years ago, so I just have to remind myself of the 9 months of unpleasantness following that to stop the impulse in its tracks.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Jesus wept. What a piece of work
Prayers for all of us out there whose relatives are gonna do their level best to make everyone around them miserable these holidays. May joy find us somehow. And may an outbreak of laryngitis sweep all the right people.
From your lips to God's ears
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
This is not in the same league as others' Difficulties. But, my son! The 26-year-old boomerang kid went to the gym and then left the bag on the living room rug. He had neglected to tighten the top of a bottle of Irish Spring shampoo (surely the most revolting shampoo in the world, what sick mind created such a thing?) and it leaked into his gym bag. And then through, onto the carpet and the wooden floor.
I spent yesterday evening trying to clean the bright green stain out of the carpet. The soap is so alkaline that I am worried the fibers are permanently weakened. (It is a Peking rug from China.) The hardwood floor beneath is probably going to need to be sanded and refinished, someday.
A quantity of his clothing has been dyed a bright green and has to be tossed. A quarter, left at the bottom of the bag, I put into a bowl of water to clean -- the image and lettering has been eaten off! It looks like a metal slug, with a few bright Irish Spring green streaks, and feels distinctly slimmer than an undamaged coin. What do they put into this stuff? Why are we not dropping it onto North Koreans and al Qaeda operatives?
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
The 26-year-old boomerang kid went to the gym and then left the bag on the living room rug. He had neglected to tighten the top of a bottle of Irish Spring shampoo . . . . I spent yesterday evening trying to clean the bright green stain out of the carpet.
Why you, and not him?
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Cottontail
Shipmate
# 12234
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Posted
Ah, Christmas. It's my sister's turn to have our mother for the day.
(Actually, it's not her turn, but she was stressed last year with a new job, and so 'swapped' a year with our other sister. Which somehow means that I have missed my turn. ![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif) But hey. I'm single and don't have kids, so I have no rights at Christmas. That goes a little bit for my mother as well.)
So sis has invited mother. She has also - thankfully - invited our high-maintenance aunt, who would have been alone otherwise. But that means she will have 9 people for Christmas lunch, and that is all she can fit round the table. To invite me would make 10 people, and that Will Not Do.
I am actually quite relieved. I would probably have made some excuse anyway. But at least, it would have been a better and kinder excuse than 'I cannot fit 10 people round my table - hope you don't mind'. And at least my excuse would not have left her alone. We are actually getting on well at the moment, and so maybe better not to put that to the test of a Christmas Day. Maybe she is thinking the same.
In a final twist, I will be spending the afternoon with another single friend, and am looking forward to that very much. But this friend lives just across the field from my sister. So I can wave at my mother from a distance on the day when - had anyone else been counting or caring - she would otherwise have been spending the day with me.
Snidey rant over. Thank you for your patience.
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"I don't think you ought to read so much theology," said Lord Peter. "It has a brutalizing influence."
Posts: 2377 | From: Scotland | Registered: Jan 2007
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
I took care of the rug, because I want the rug to survive. He took care of everything else, mostly by dropping it into the trash can.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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anoesis
Shipmate
# 14189
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Cottontail:
So sis has invited mother. She has also - thankfully - invited our high-maintenance aunt, who would have been alone otherwise. But that means she will have 9 people for Christmas lunch, and that is all she can fit round the table. To invite me would make 10 people, and that Will Not Do.
This MAKES NO SENSE! Since when do they make tables that seat 9! Answer: They don't. Most likely it is a circular table that seats eight, and she can squeeze one more in around there without compromising elbow room too much. But that means someone will be sitting on a non-matching chair! I'm surprised that doesn't fall amongst those things that Will Not Do, also.
Craziness. It makes me thankful that my in-laws, with whom we always* spend Christmas, are amongst the least difficult relatives imaginable. My mother-in-law is not an astounding cook, but she does manage to cater for nearly twenty people at Christmas lunch with reasonable aplomb, and no, we don't all sit around the table. We also sit on couches and perch on the edge of the fireplace and kneel on the floor with plates on our laps, and the kids usually sit around a picnic blanket spread in the middle of the lounge floor - and you know what? It's nice. It works well.
I am very cross on your behalf, Cottontail. It seems to me that the one thing that really Will Not Do, at Christmas, of all times, is excluding people. Grrr.
*This does not offend my own special difficult relative in the least, as she does not observe Christmas, due to its pagan origins.
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The history of humanity give one little hope that strength left to its own devices won't be abused. Indeed, it gives one little ground to think that strength would continue to exist if it were not abused. -- Dafyd --
Posts: 993 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2008
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
I am confused as to why Cottontail is upset at not being invited to somewhere she didnt't want to go, at a time at which she already had a better offer ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Cottontail
Shipmate
# 12234
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Posted
I didn't have a better offer at the time. The offer from the friend came later.
I'm both cross and not cross. I made the emotional break from my sister 6 years ago, and since then have worked hard at loving her while not letting her near enough to hurt me again. That means that I withdraw and let her 'win', rather than engage her head-to-head: not fighting for 'my turn' for my mother this year is an example of that. Besides, that would be really unfair on my mother.
My sister is in most ways a good person and can be very kind. It is just that she draws her circle of 'important people' very small indeed, and she has made it clear over the years that I am not in that circle. This is just another instance of the same, and I am cynically resigned.
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"I don't think you ought to read so much theology," said Lord Peter. "It has a brutalizing influence."
Posts: 2377 | From: Scotland | Registered: Jan 2007
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
I am confused as to why Cottontail is upset at not being invited to somewhere she didn't want to go, at a time at which she already had a better offer
Can't speak for Cottontail; but most of us don't enjoy being the target of intentional unkindness from someone we try to get along with if only for Mom's sake.
(P.S. I am well aware of the "you don't have kids so you don't get included in family gatherings" behavior.)
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
The 26-year-old boomerang kid went to the gym and then left the bag on the living room rug. He had neglected to tighten the top of a bottle of Irish Spring shampoo . . . . I spent yesterday evening trying to clean the bright green stain out of the carpet.
Why you, and not him?
You are going to trust a special rug and expensive flooring to someone who has already demonstrated careless disdain for them? You would have to supervise every action and still might not be fast enough to anticipate and prevent a destructive "solution" to the problem.
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
I am confused as to why Cottontail is upset at not being invited to somewhere she didnt't want to go, at a time at which she already had a better offer
Because it excludes her from spending time with someone she does want to see, her mother, as her sister has effectively bagsied their mother. Anyone would be upset!
(Is bagsied a generally understood word? Called first dibs on?)
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
Originally posted by anoesis:
quote:
But that means someone will be sitting on a non-matching chair! I'm surprised that doesn't fall amongst those things that Will Not Do, also.
Seven years ago I invited family, including a visting Australian cousin, to my house for a Saturday lunch. My mother phoned everyone I'd invited, cancelled my luch invitation and said she was hosting Saturday lunch at a hotel instead. I only found out once it was a fait accompli. All the people she phoned assumed she and I had agreed this between us.
The reason - Mum would have been embarrassed if visiting Australian cousin had realised we only have six matching dining room chairs (after that we top up with kitchen chairs, the piano stool, etc). Apparently we would have been gossiped about in Australia, because Australians really care about matching dining chairs.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
There must be kids coming to Cottontail's sister's event -- since that's what makes their parents so important -- so why aren't they sitting at a card table with a paper cloth as tradition commands?
Leaving out a member of the immediate family because of dining room chairs is the absolute limit, and I say that as someone who really, really likes my table to look beautiful. Perhaps Cottontail could send her a nice Christmas gift of various lovely bottles of bath salts and lotions, including a leaky bottle of Irish Spring shampoo.
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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Cottontail
Shipmate
# 12234
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Posted
I'd never heard of that shampoo. But perhaps it would make a good gift for the brother-in-law. ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
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"I don't think you ought to read so much theology," said Lord Peter. "It has a brutalizing influence."
Posts: 2377 | From: Scotland | Registered: Jan 2007
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Alternatively, has no one heard of bringing in the garden bench and using that for extra seating - and extra table room can be provided if you remove a door and stand it on two stools...
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
Indeed. Everyone invited to a meal has a right to a chair to sit in and a flat surface to put plates and glasses on. No, they don't have to be part of a matching set. But asking guests to sit on the floor and balance food on the lap is inconsiderate.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Mili
Shipmate
# 3254
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Posted
I feel bad enjoying this thread so much, given that none of my relatives are particularly difficult most of the time (the living ones at least, my mother's father was beyond difficult to the point of threatening family with death and his mother was probably a narcissist). As an Australian I feel the need to go gossip about all your mismatching chairs now as that is our most important Christmas tradition ![[Two face]](graemlins/scot_twoface.gif)
Have any of you watched the 1980s Australian comedy "Mother and Son"? I think many of you could relate. The mother even tried to cancel the son's Christmas party once by putting a sign out front of their house saying there was a death in the family. (There are clips on Youtube though not sure of the legality of them so haven't linked).
Posts: 1015 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Aug 2002
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Mili
Shipmate
# 3254
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Posted
I should add that I don't find the really awful stuff amusing though, just everyone's black humour in dealing with it. It's how my Mum and her siblings deal with their childhood and also how we all deal with difficult family situations at times on Mum's side of the family.
Having been through some exclusion stuff with some friends lately(and for a couple of years from one of my brothers long ago, but all ok between us now) I can't imagine how horrible it would be to deal with that from family members especially when it involves people being left out of family events.
Posts: 1015 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Aug 2002
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Evangeline
Shipmate
# 7002
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
Indeed. Everyone invited to a meal has a right to a chair to sit in and a flat surface to put plates and glasses on. No, they don't have to be part of a matching set. But asking guests to sit on the floor and balance food on the lap is inconsiderate.
I would much prefer to picnic on the ground outside (ok being in Australia does help that) or to perch on the arms of a sofa etc etc than somebody be excluded. I could just come to terms with we don't have room for a family of 6 BUT to say you don't have room for 1 relative at Christmas is just hideous.
I know it's hell and all but seriously, may these difficult relatives be hit with the kindness, compassion and just plain sane stick.
Posts: 2871 | From: "A capsule of modernity afloat in a wild sea" | Registered: May 2004
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
And =then= douse them with Irish Spring shampoo.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
I am confused as to why Cottontail is upset at not being invited to somewhere she didnt't want to go, at a time at which she already had a better offer
Because it excludes her from spending time with someone she does want to see, her mother, as her sister has effectively bagsied their mother. Anyone would be upset!
(Is bagsied a generally understood word? Called first dibs on?)
Mother has no agency ?
Seriously, there is lots of stuff on this thread that seems hideous - but getting in a huff for not getting an invitation to something you know you wouldn't enjoy and would probably have declined, together with face saving excuse rather than just "we both know it would be tense and a bit crap", seems a tad unreasonable.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
I daresay mother loves both and is inwardly grieved that one will not be there. But what is she to do?
There are some things make you sad because you realise there's something that could be, and never will be and though you find alternatives, it's not the same.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Cottontail
Shipmate
# 12234
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
I am confused as to why Cottontail is upset at not being invited to somewhere she didnt't want to go, at a time at which she already had a better offer
Because it excludes her from spending time with someone she does want to see, her mother, as her sister has effectively bagsied their mother. Anyone would be upset!
(Is bagsied a generally understood word? Called first dibs on?)
Mother has no agency ?
Seriously, there is lots of stuff on this thread that seems hideous - but getting in a huff for not getting an invitation to something you know you wouldn't enjoy and would probably have declined, together with face saving excuse rather than just "we both know it would be tense and a bit crap", seems a tad unreasonable.
You may have a point. I am genuinely trying not to be huffy in real life, and a wee rant on this thread helps a little with that. And I am aware that I came across a bit snidey, as I said, because it doesn't seem like much in the great scheme of things. There is obviously a whole history here that I am not going to try and explain now. But I promise you, I have tried in the past being calm and reasonable and direct with my sister, and it does not work - she just goes straight for the jugular.
So it's true that I don't want to go. You get excluded often enough, and you get so you don't want to be included.
Did you note my point that I did not have a 'better offer' at the time? I have since made my own arrangements.
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"I don't think you ought to read so much theology," said Lord Peter. "It has a brutalizing influence."
Posts: 2377 | From: Scotland | Registered: Jan 2007
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
You and me both, but having to make your own arrangements is part of various phases of life.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Cottontail
Shipmate
# 12234
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Posted
I'm not suggesting otherwise. I am just pointing out that part of your judgement of me was based on a wrong fact. Having corrected that doesn't mean that your judgement will change. Clearly it hasn't. But nevertheless, I was not complaining about my sister when I already 'a better offer'. She told me I was not invited at a time when I had no other such offer at all.
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"I don't think you ought to read so much theology," said Lord Peter. "It has a brutalizing influence."
Posts: 2377 | From: Scotland | Registered: Jan 2007
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Evangeline
Shipmate
# 7002
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
I am confused as to why Cottontail is upset at not being invited to somewhere she didnt't want to go, at a time at which she already had a better offer
Because it excludes her from spending time with someone she does want to see, her mother, as her sister has effectively bagsied their mother. Anyone would be upset!
(Is bagsied a generally understood word? Called first dibs on?)
Mother has no agency ?
Seriously, there is lots of stuff on this thread that seems hideous - but getting in a huff for not getting an invitation to something you know you wouldn't enjoy and would probably have declined, together with face saving excuse rather than just "we both know it would be tense and a bit crap", seems a tad unreasonable.
I totally understand how hurtful it would be to excluded from such a thing. Family are supposed to have your back, maybe that's an unrealistic expectation but for many of us we have that luxury. For a sibling to say "I hope you don't mind we can't fit you around our table" is hurtful . Even if sibling had said "do you have plans-do you want to come or do you think it'll be awkward? Is at least honest but just what amounts to "we don't want you to come is horrible and isolating. I think all the more so if you are a household of one.
Tim Minchin's sentimental song about secular Christmas in Australia makes many of us cry, and it sums up what we want about Christmas and when we don't have it, it hurts.
quote:
.....But you will learn someday
That wherever you are and whatever you face
These are the people who'll make you feel safe in this world
My sweet blue-eyed girl
And if my baby girl
When you're twenty-one or thirty-one
And Christmas comes around
And you find yourself nine thousand miles from home
You'll know what ever comes
Your brothers and sisters and me and your Mum
Will be waiting for you in the sun
Whenever you come
Your brothers and sisters, your aunts and your uncles
Your grandparents, cousins and me and your mum
We'll be waiting for you in the sun
Drinking white wine in the sun
Darling, when Christmas comes
We'll be waiting for you in the sun
Posts: 2871 | From: "A capsule of modernity afloat in a wild sea" | Registered: May 2004
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womanspeak
Shipmate
# 15394
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Posted
Tim Minchin's song for his daughter touches all of us who experience exclusion from precious family. Due to meanspirited selfishness my sister-in-law in making it impossible for family to visit her ailing 95 year old mother.
Having together with her husband stripped a half a million dollars from her mother's estate in the past year,( following the untimely death of the sister who was mother's wonderful carer and aunt in a million) she now denies access for her brothers, plus grandma's eight grandchildren and seven great grandchildren.
We did drive a thousand kilometres from the bush to gate crash grandma's 95th birthday earlier in the year. One of our sons flew in from interstate with his partner and booked car and accommodation to be there. And guess what? It was cancelled no doubt because the brothers and their 8 children and families were coming.
We were on our way when the cancellation was emailed through so we turned up anyway much to mother-in-law's delight. Sister-in-law hid out the back. When in doubt just drink champagne!
But it is going to be a difficult Christmas for my husband and his ailing brother and for the grandchildren for whom she is the last grandparent. Even telephone contact is denied and mum's blindness and dependence makes all but a full blown gate-crashing a sad reality.
There are blessings in having been a much loved adopted only child of wonderful parents who have now gone to God.
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from the bush
Posts: 62 | From: rural australia | Registered: Jan 2010
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
Yesterday I was at the funeral of an elderly relative. Chatting to my children about who was who at the funeral, I realised I seem to have "memories" of things I can't possibly remember, because they happened before I was born. Family stories I've heard from my mother, my grandmothers, assorted aunts.
Yesterday's relative was buried in the same graveyard as my grandparents, and many other relatives. I remember (genuinely remember) walking round that same graveyard over forty years ago with my grandmother as she chatted about the people she remembered who were buried there, including one set of her great grandparents. Telling stories that went back a hundred years then and which go back 140 years now.
Yesterday's relative was the penultimate person still alive who attended my grandparents wedding in 1932. His mother, who died in 1983, was the last of my relatives whose toilet was at the bottom of her garden.
Yesterday I felt part of a hive mind, not just myself with my own story, but part of a bigger story, of poverty and progress, birth and death, and the endless cycle of life.
There's no escape from family, when it feels that DNA is more than purely biological.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
posted by Firenze quote:
I daresay mother loves both and is inwardly grieved that one will not be there. But what is she to do?
Unfortunately there are some of us who can't make that asssumption and for whom the evidence all points in the opposite direction.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
posted by Firenze quote:
I daresay mother loves both and is inwardly grieved that one will not be there. But what is she to do?
Unfortunately there are some of us who can't make that asssumption and for whom the evidence all points in the opposite direction.
Families vary and no assumption applies to all.
But as to agency, not unusual for an elder parent to have no agency, really - dependent on someone else to drive them, on someone else to arrange a gathering, you can't fit 8 in an assisted living single room. Many parents keep their mouths shut about what they want because they fear saying anything might end up meaning they are left out!
Even a parent with lots of individual agency can't control adult kids! A friend did say something, and ended up alone with a 20 pound turkey at Thanksgiving, one kid was offended and the others decided their best interests were in backing the sibling who will be around another 50 years instead of risking that long term future relationship to back a parent who might not live out the decade.
She'll be alone this Christmas, too. (I invited her to a friend's party I'm going to, but she can't face thinking about Christmas with no family.)
And that's one reason parents do not speak up about what they would like. Fear of being cut off completely.
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
At my sister's (Australian) house, her kids WANT to sit on the mismatching chairs. Because they're computer ones with wheels.
I'm kind of tempted to close this thread temporarily over Christmas just to see who explodes.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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Posted
January 8th reopen. I dare ya!
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Even more so than I was before
Posts: 20466 | From: No longer where I was | Registered: Sep 2005
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Oh come now. I'm actually going to BE at my folks' house then, and surely they'll want to vent about me...
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Maybe we can close this thread, and open a Very Special Escaping from Holiday Parties thread in AS. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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M.
Ship's Spare Part
# 3291
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Posted
I've been thinking for a while that I would love to read the parallel-universe thread written by the rellies in question about posters here.
M.
Posts: 2303 | From: Lurking in Surrey | Registered: Sep 2002
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
You don't need to take the door off (sudden urge to find a way to represent Michael Caine's accent in print) - you can use the ironing board - it's a better width. My Dad did it at children's parties.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Cottontail:
... she will have 9 people for Christmas lunch, and that is all she can fit round the table. To invite me would make 10 people, and that Will Not Do ...
I'm sure I'm just being a bit dense, but I don't understand how she can fit 9 round her table but not 10, unless the table is (a) round, meant for 8 and she's squeezing in an extra one, or (b) triangular.
I think I can understand your mild feelings of miffedness; even if entertaining your mum would have been something of a chore, any kind of exclusion (especially of a petty nature) can be hurtful.
If you're going to be within hailing distance, why not drop in to your sister's house and leave off some really extravagant pressies (nice wine, maybe some smoked salmon or something of that ilk), while you're on your way to your friend's house?
Heaping her head with coals of fire, and all that ...
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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