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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Daily Office (yet again)
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Thurible
Shipmate
# 3206
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Posted
With Pocket Common Worship and Prayer, you can download the day's offices when you have wifi and save them. That way, whilst you can manage to use them with just a smidgen of 3G or whatever.
Thurible
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"I've been baptised not lobotomised."
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sebby
Shipmate
# 15147
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Posted
The Smart Phone has finally allowed, at long bloody last, Offices to be ALL IN ONE BOOK (as it were), without the ridiculous fiddle of a prayer book, lectionary and bible.
With the exception of the LOTH; the 1928 Prayer Book and 1922 Readings combined; The American compilations such as the Daily Office Book and other slightly inadequate abridgements, it has been almost impossible to find this.
It was utterly beyond the understanding of the CofE litugical commission to realise that probably most people who consistently say the Daily Office do so solitary, and probably whilst travelling.
I once mentioned the inconvenience of Celebrating Common Prayer needing a separate bible, and was looked at by a certain Franciscan on the Liturgical Commission with to quote Orwell, 'dull, uncomprehending cow-like eyes'.
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sebhyatt
Posts: 1340 | From: yorks | Registered: Sep 2009
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*Leon*
Shipmate
# 3377
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Posted
I may possibly have mis-represented the capabilities of the iPhone app.
Anyway, I have an even better option for Android.
Install an app called 'Offline Browser Pro'. It costs £2.50, but you need the pro version for the scheduled download feature.
Create entries for morning prayer and evening prayer.
The morning prayer url to use is http://daily.commonworship.com/daily.cgi?today_mp=1
Evening prayer is http://daily.commonworship.com/daily.cgi?today_ep=1
Then set up scheduled downloads for some time before you're likely to wake up. I've turned off 'Download only if WiFi is available'.
Now you have a pre-downloaded copy of both morning and evening prayer waiting for you when you wake up.
What the CofE really ought to do is to make the data available in an easily machine-mashable format and let people play about with it. Then people could write websites, apps or whatever with whatever features they want. But they seem too paranoid about losing book sales to allow people to pray in convenient ways.
Posts: 831 | From: london | Registered: Oct 2002
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sebby
Shipmate
# 15147
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Posted
There is an excelllent download from Canada of the daily BCP order with the 1922 lessons and the days psalms aportioned as in the Prayer Book. It is also nicely presented.
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sebhyatt
Posts: 1340 | From: yorks | Registered: Sep 2009
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Thurible
Shipmate
# 3206
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Posted
Do you have a link, pl?
Thurible
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"I've been baptised not lobotomised."
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Thurible
Shipmate
# 3206
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Galilit:
Tonight's Compline will be the last Office streamed by the Community of St Mary the Virgin, Wantage.
Having prayed with them for 3 years plus I am feeling bereft at this loss . Not to mention daunted by the prospect of a search for a new Daily Office.
Naturally they will continue to be in my (our) prayers as they make their changes.
You may be interested in this.
Thurible
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"I've been baptised not lobotomised."
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Galilit
Shipmate
# 16470
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Posted
Oh how kind of you, Thurible.
Actually, I am in touch with the Sisters of the Blessed Virgin Mary who, having been received into Rome (the Ordinariate) on New Year's Day, are now at Ryde on the Isle of Wight with the Benedictine Sisters there. They are setting themselves up liturgy-wise and doing all the other legal stuff for the new Order as well as looking for a new home. They will be returning to Wantage in a few weeks as a temporary measure.
Wish I was a multi-millionaire...I would set them up with everything. In the meantime I pray for them and for the Sisters left behind at the Community of S. Mary the Virgin.
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She who does Her Son's will in all things can rely on me to do Hers.
Posts: 624 | From: a Galilee far, far away | Registered: Jun 2011
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Thyme
Shipmate
# 12360
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Posted
In reply to Leon, I use the Common Worship Daily Prayer site a lot. As well as my laptop I can get it on my Kindle Fire HD and my ipod (2nd generation touch). As far as I know I didn't need any special apps to get them.
I've also downloaded the pdf versions but prefer the online versions as it is less hassle than the pdf versions.
Here is the main page to access the online and pdf versions
And here
is the page to choose the service you want in either contemporary or traditional service.
I also have the three services linked on my blog and church website so each day the links update to show the services of the day.
I have just noticed there is now a kindle version on the first link. I haven't used that. I think I will experiment with that.
Forgive me if I have misunderstood what you were saying and this post is nonsense. I get easily confused with techie language.
There is something I have forgotten ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
Oh yes, I am supposed to pray them. ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif)
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The Church in its own bubble has become, at best the guardian of the value system of the nation’s grandparents, and at worst a den of religious anoraks defined by defensiveness, esoteric logic and discrimination. Bishop of Buckingham's blog
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Thyme
Shipmate
# 12360
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Posted
I've just had a look at the Kindle versions of CW Daily Prayer and they seem very expensive. I can't think of any use I would have for them that can't met by the various free versions.
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The Church in its own bubble has become, at best the guardian of the value system of the nation’s grandparents, and at worst a den of religious anoraks defined by defensiveness, esoteric logic and discrimination. Bishop of Buckingham's blog
Posts: 600 | From: Cloud Cuckoo Land | Registered: Feb 2007
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Thyme
Shipmate
# 12360
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Posted
Zappa ![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
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The Church in its own bubble has become, at best the guardian of the value system of the nation’s grandparents, and at worst a den of religious anoraks defined by defensiveness, esoteric logic and discrimination. Bishop of Buckingham's blog
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*Leon*
Shipmate
# 3377
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Thyme:
In reply to Leon, I use the Common Worship Daily Prayer site a lot. As well as my laptop I can get it on my Kindle Fire HD and my ipod (2nd generation touch). As far as I know I didn't need any special apps to get them.
Forgive me if I have misunderstood what you were saying and this post is nonsense. I get easily confused with techie language.
At the risk of continuing a tangent, yes you had misunderstood my (possibly rather obscure) point.
In my opinion, that web site isn't nearly good enough. My main evidence for this is the very small percentage of CofE churchgoers who use CW:DP.
Obvious things that I think should be available are:
The ability to set things up to chose from all the available options, and get a page that contains everything you want in your daily prayer, in the right order, with nothing else there.
An offline app for people who want to use it in a disorganized fashion without access to the internet.
However my real complaint is that the CofE has made it very difficult and illegal for an outsider to fix this by providing better sites/apps.
Posts: 831 | From: london | Registered: Oct 2002
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Episcoterian
Shipmate
# 13185
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Posted
I don't know if this question should be posted here or in the Random Questions thread...
In MP, how do I know (or where do I look up) which canticles are appointed for the day? There doesn't seem to be anything obvious in the Kalendar, nor in the Lectionary.
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"We cannot let individualism make corporate worship impossible!" (iMonk)
I'm on Facebook too!
Posts: 286 | From: Franca, SP, Brazil | Registered: Nov 2007
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John Holding
Coffee and Cognac
# 158
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Episcoterian:
I don't know if this question should be posted here or in the Random Questions thread...
In MP, how do I know (or where do I look up) which canticles are appointed for the day? There doesn't seem to be anything obvious in the Kalendar, nor in the Lectionary.
A great deal depends on the source of the service you're using.
If you're using the CofE 1662 order, or most of those derived from it in (eg,) Canada, the US, Australia, then the canticles are basically set with one alternative for each...and there's no rule as to which, when.
If you were to be using (which I'm sure you're not) the Canadian BAS, you'd turn to the section of the book that provides the text of the canticles and use the lists provided...lists of recommendations, not requirements.
So we need to know which Order of MP you're using, to discover whether or not there are recommendations about canticles.
John
Posts: 5929 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: May 2001
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Episcoterian
Shipmate
# 13185
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Posted
Thanks, John.
My usual starting point is the 1928 American BCP, which alludes to other Canticles being sometimes appointed (where?) in lieu of the Venite.
In the 1988 Brazilian BCP, it's up to the Officiant to choose between Venite, Jubilate or (during Eastertide) the Pascha Nostrum for the Invitatory. After the Lessons, any Canticle (or none at all) will do. There's a single Liturgy for the Daily Office, so it applies even to EP.
I'm also looking at the 1917 Lutheran CSB Matins, but it's most useful for the choral settings. It always has the Venite for the Invitatory, and either Te Deum or Benedictus after the Lessons, officiant's discretion.
The St. Bede's Breviary mentions a fixed table somewhere, which I just found in the 1979 BCP. That might settle it, but it'd be nice to know how this is handled in other jurisdictions!
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"We cannot let individualism make corporate worship impossible!" (iMonk)
I'm on Facebook too!
Posts: 286 | From: Franca, SP, Brazil | Registered: Nov 2007
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Episcoterian:
The St. Bede's Breviary mentions a fixed table somewhere, which I just found in the 1979 BCP. That might settle it, but it'd be nice to know how this is handled in other jurisdictions!
Our parish uses the BCP 1979 table on p. 144, only sort of.
For the first canticle at Morning Prayer, we use the first canticle recommended in the table. For the second canticle, it's always #16, Benedictus.
The two canticles at Evening Prayer are always Magnificat and Nunc dimittis.
EXCEPTIONS: On Sundays and holy days, the morning canticles are #16 and #21 (Te Deum) in that order. I believe that in Lent and Advent we use the suggested first canticle (#14 and #11 respectively) and then #16 Benedictus.
So we never use #18, 19, or 20 in the office.
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Episcoterian:
I don't know if this question should be posted here or in the Random Questions thread...
In MP, how do I know (or where do I look up) which canticles are appointed for the day? There doesn't seem to be anything obvious in the Kalendar, nor in the Lectionary.
I have used the tables before, but whenever there are options, I find it easier to simply alternate one after the other after the other. Or not. That's the fun!
Some books appoint different canticles per day. If I recall correctly, the New Zealand Prayer Book is like this.
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
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Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by John Holding:
If you're using the CofE 1662 order, or most of those derived from it in (eg,) Canada, the US, Australia, then the canticles are basically set with one alternative for each...and there's no rule as to which, when.
Not quite true; the rubrics of the 1662 prescribe the Benedictus as the second canticle, excepting when it comes up in the NT lesson (or on the feast of St John Baptist's nativity).
My suspicion is that the Psalm canticles were supplied so that the Puritans could sing Psalms only, as they were wont to do. I'm not really sure what I base that on, though.
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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
Posts: 2512 | From: Oakland, CA | Registered: Feb 2008
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Antiphon
Shipmate
# 14779
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Posted
If anyone is interested a small pocket-sized edition of the 1961 Diurnale Romanum is available from the online shop of the Abbey of Le Barroux.
I have just received mine this morning. It is basically printed to the same format as the larger edition with which many people are familiar, but is small enough to fit in your jacket pocket and has what appears to be an imitation leather cover. It is roughly the same size as the Farnborough Abbey Monastic Diurnale
Posts: 235 | From: Nowhere in Particular | Registered: May 2009
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Percy B
Shipmate
# 17238
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Posted
A question for C of E daily office knowing people.
If you just say one office per day what readings are you meant to use from the lectionary. There is such a choice!
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Mary, a priest??
Posts: 582 | From: Nudrug | Registered: Jul 2012
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Jon in the Nati
Shipmate
# 15849
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Posted
Would you not use the lections for the office which you are praying? If praying morning prayer, would you not use the morning prayer lections?
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Homer: Aww, this isn't about Jesus, is it?
Lovejoy: All things are about Jesus, Homer. Except this.
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Basilica
Shipmate
# 16965
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Percy B:
A question for C of E daily office knowing people.
If you just say one office per day what readings are you meant to use from the lectionary. There is such a choice!
I would suggest the actual choice is not that important. More important is that you make a choice and stick to it.
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Percy B
Shipmate
# 17238
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Posted
Ok. I just thought there was a rule about it. You see we have a set up with just one daily office sometimes morning sometimes evening.
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Mary, a priest??
Posts: 582 | From: Nudrug | Registered: Jul 2012
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Bos Loquax
Shipmate
# 16602
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Percy B:
A question for C of E daily office knowing people.
If you just say one office per day what readings are you meant to use from the lectionary. There is such a choice!
quote:
Originally posted by Percy B:
Ok. I just thought there was a rule about it. You see we have a set up with just one daily office sometimes morning sometimes evening.
A Daily Prayer page has this Official Guidance, which is not very restrictive:
http://www.churchofengland.org/prayer-worship/worship/texts/daily2/generalintro.aspx
quote:
How many readings might be read each day?
<snip>
¶ Those who pray only once a day may use just one of the tracks.
Of course, this page doesn't say "must" here, and it goes on to say, "There are many possible combinations."
Not that you were asking for suggestions, but I'd suggest following a course that makes the most pastoral sense.
For instance, if this communal office is likely to be the only office that day for most of the congregants (regular ones or visitors), my first suggestion would be to use one track continuously through the year (and using different tracks in different years).
If it so happens that the likely congregants have a strong office habit and are likely to pray the evening office elsewhere when your communal office is in the morning and vice versa, my first suggestion would be to use the appropriate track for the time of day.
And if it so happens that you have an even mix of both groups, flip a coin.
[ 21. February 2013, 02:36: Message edited by: Bos Loquax ]
Posts: 58 | From: California | Registered: Aug 2011
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Percy B:
Ok. I just thought there was a rule about it. You see we have a set up with just one daily office sometimes morning sometimes evening.
Think of it as tapping into the ongoing cycle of morning and evening prayer. If you pray only one of these, there are others (in the church around the world) who are keeping things going by praying the offices you miss. Some people join in morning and evening every day; others join in when possible.
I've also sometimes prayed both the morning and evening psalms and lessons at Evening Prayer if I've missed Morning Prayer. Not often; just sometimes when I feel led to do that. But that's alone...I wouldn't burden everyone else with all of that if I were leading Evening Prayer in church.
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Rosa Winkel
Saint Anger round my neck
# 11424
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Posted
I fancy getting hold of a book that gives some infos to the Saints and people commemorated in the CoE, or CiW. I think when I lived in England the book "A cloud of witnesses" was used in the cathedral I worked in, a red book. I can't find this, however. If the book had suggestions for readings that'd also be helpful.
Another thing, I fancy getting hold of a book of the Orthodox liturgy in both Russian and English. Does anyone by any chance have a recommendation?
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The Disability and Jesus "Locked out for Lent" project
Posts: 3271 | From: Wrocław | Registered: May 2006
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Boadicea Trott
Shipmate
# 9621
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Posted
Rosa,
If you go here, you can access copies of the Orthodox Divine Liturgy in a variety of languages, including English/Church Slavonic and English/Russian.
(edited to add you may need to use Word Perfect to open some files on this site.)
Sorry I cannot help with the first question ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
[ 24. February 2013, 18:58: Message edited by: Boadicea Trott ]
Posts: 563 | From: Roaming the World in my imagination..... | Registered: Jun 2005
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Thurible
Shipmate
# 3206
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Posted
Rosa, you want this.
Thurible
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"I've been baptised not lobotomised."
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cg
Shipmate
# 14332
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Posted
Cheap copy available
here
Posts: 136 | From: Antipodes | Registered: Dec 2008
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*Leon*
Shipmate
# 3377
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bos Loquax:
quote:
Originally posted by Percy B:
Ok. I just thought there was a rule about it. You see we have a set up with just one daily office sometimes morning sometimes evening.
For instance, if this communal office is likely to be the only office that day for most of the congregants (regular ones or visitors), my first suggestion would be to use one track continuously through the year (and using different tracks in different years).
I seem to remember that the readings switch over between morning and evening prayer in different years, in which case if you stick with one track you end up getting all the readings for both tracks only it takes twice as long. And if you use different tracks in different years, you might end up using only half the readings. But I might have mis-remembered.
Posts: 831 | From: london | Registered: Oct 2002
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DitzySpike
Shipmate
# 1540
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Posted
Shipmates wishing to own a cheap(er) version of the latin liturgy of the hours might be interested to read on. The paid version of Universalis (various electronic and portable platforms) now come with latin texts. I'm surprised by the work gone into this software - even the Office of Reading is provided for in Latin!
Posts: 498 | From: Singapore | Registered: Oct 2001
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by sebby:
There is an excelllent download from Canada of the daily BCP order with the 1922 lessons and the days psalms aportioned as in the Prayer Book. It is also nicely presented.
I'd love to see this. Is there a link?
Posts: 3823 | Registered: May 2004
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Percy B
Shipmate
# 17238
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Posted
I was talking to a female friend today about the daily office.
She prefers non gender specific language for God. She asked me if I know of an office book which would favour or include at least in part such language for God.
I mentioned I thought Rev Jim Cotter had written one but I didn't know of any other.
Thought / suggestions, please.
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Mary, a priest??
Posts: 582 | From: Nudrug | Registered: Jul 2012
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Percy B:
I was talking to a female friend today about the daily office.
She prefers non gender specific language for God. She asked me if I know of an office book which would favour or include at least in part such language for God.
I mentioned I thought Rev Jim Cotter had written one but I didn't know of any other.
Thought / suggestions, please.
The best IMHO is that of the Order of St Helena (may they be blessed on this Feast of the Finding of the Holy Cross by St Helena). Information about ordering one of their two editions is
here. The "personal edition" is flexible in terms of which psalter schema one follows; the "monastic edition" is big and heavy because it has all the chant the Sisters need to sing the Offices.
The inclusivizing of the language is of high quality, was prayed through for several years before publication, and is very consistent.
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sebby
Shipmate
# 15147
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oblatus:
quote:
Originally posted by sebby:
There is an excelllent download from Canada of the daily BCP order with the 1922 lessons and the days psalms aportioned as in the Prayer Book. It is also nicely presented.
I'd love to see this. Is there a link?
Just revisited this.
To my intense disappointment, I have noticed something wrong with the psalter. Personally, the greatest joy, boon, wonder of The Office, ANY Office, is the Coverdale Psalter.
The psalter on this App describes itself as Coverdale but isn't. There are a number of irritating differences. WHY? HOW COULD THEY.
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sebhyatt
Posts: 1340 | From: yorks | Registered: Sep 2009
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Indeed. The poetic, quirky and endearing Coverdale psalms are just about the best bit of the BCP.....IMNSHO!
I recall the days in the Church Of My Yoof when, at ASB Evening Prayer, we used to read the psalms from the RSV Bible....... ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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sebby
Shipmate
# 15147
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Posted
I quite understand that. The ASB psalter was ghastly. The CW was an improvement. Perhaps the BCP 1979 of TEC the best modern one.
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sebhyatt
Posts: 1340 | From: yorks | Registered: Sep 2009
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DitzySpike
Shipmate
# 1540
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Percy B:
She prefers non gender specific language for God. She asked me if I know of an office book which would favour or include at least in part such language for God.
I'll definitely go for the ICEL Psalter. These psalms arranged in the 4 weeks schema of the Roman rite is published in Psalms for Morning and Evening Prayer . Alternatively, there is an abridged version of the Benedictine Office published as The Work of God: Benedictine Prayer .
Posts: 498 | From: Singapore | Registered: Oct 2001
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Galilit
Shipmate
# 16470
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Posted
Wee Worship Book from Iona.
Of course it may not be "Office-y" enough.
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She who does Her Son's will in all things can rely on me to do Hers.
Posts: 624 | From: a Galilee far, far away | Registered: Jun 2011
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
There is this book. I am almost certain it is very closely related to the "Each Day and Each Night" that was published by WildGoose!
Given that it is almost certainly in inclusive language.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
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Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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Galilit
Shipmate
# 16470
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Posted
I bought Each Day and Each Night a few years ago and was really disappointed in it.
It was really lacking in depth and I felt a lot of the prayers were of doubtful historical use and authenticity.
I did give it away to a wee chapel in the end as I think it is nice, just not on a daily/all the time basis.
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She who does Her Son's will in all things can rely on me to do Hers.
Posts: 624 | From: a Galilee far, far away | Registered: Jun 2011
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
I used it for about a year or so but I am pretty sure I augmented it, and I did not believe it was "Celtic" to start with.
Then I find I augment everything including the stuff I prepare myself.
Jengie
[ 04. May 2013, 19:18: Message edited by: Jengie Jon ]
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
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Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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Percy B
Shipmate
# 17238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by sebby:
I quite understand that. The ASB psalter was ghastly. The CW was an improvement. Perhaps the BCP 1979 of TEC the best modern one.
Is that psalter available as a separate? That is to say can the psalter be bought as a book alone, without the rest of the stuff in TEC BCP?
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Mary, a priest??
Posts: 582 | From: Nudrug | Registered: Jul 2012
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Qoheleth.
Semi-Sagacious One
# 9265
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Percy B:
quote:
Originally posted by sebby:
I quite understand that. The ASB psalter was ghastly. The CW was an improvement. Perhaps the BCP 1979 of TEC the best modern one.
Is that psalter available as a separate? That is to say can the psalter be bought as a book alone, without the rest of the stuff in TEC BCP?
Is it not the same one as in CCP?
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The Benedictine Community at Alton Abbey offers a friendly, personal service for the exclusive supply of Rosa Mystica incense.
Posts: 2532 | From: the radiator of life | Registered: Apr 2005
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
Done some googling and found that [url=http://www.osh.org/breviary.htmlthe Saint Helena Breviary and Psalter[/url] are available. These will be in inclusive language.
I use the Psalter (which can be got from Amazon) but not the Breviary.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
Sorry for messing up code. My fault for being over confident.
It is corrected below.
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
Done some googling and found that the Saint Helena Breviary and Psalter are available. These will be in inclusive language.
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
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Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
I echo the sentiment of my sagacious shipmates. The St. Helena Breviary is an excellent text, and I say this as a person who likes traditional worship (as enshrined in the 1970s). I am not even a fan of gender-inclusive texts. That said, St, Helena is so well-done that I use it quite often.
Buy the cheap version that is easily available, unless you really want to chant everything and don't mind using seventeen or so bookmarks.
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
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Bostonman
Shipmate
# 17108
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Percy B:
quote:
Originally posted by sebby:
I quite understand that. The ASB psalter was ghastly. The CW was an improvement. Perhaps the BCP 1979 of TEC the best modern one.
Is that psalter available as a separate? That is to say can the psalter be bought as a book alone, without the rest of the stuff in TEC BCP?
Yes! See here, for example.
It's about the same size as my pocket BCP, but the text for the psalms is of course much larger. It includes a brief, three-page preface, then the 150 psalms. That's all!
Posts: 424 | From: USA | Registered: May 2012
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