Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Hell: Crappy Choruses and Horrible Hymns
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Newman's Own
Shipmate
# 420
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Belisarius: This is also the first I've ever heard of Dominus, etc. pronounced with an "aw" sound instead of a long "o."
My Latin (quite ecclesiastical) is a cross between Pius XII and the fish market, but I know this problem very well. The odd part is that the vowel in Dominus is neither a long o nor an English "aw" - it is somewhat between the two sounds. I remember, all too well, the days of RC Benediction, when I always seemed to have someone directly behind me singing, "O Salutaris Hostia" as "Oh Sa-lu-tear-es Ho-stee-a." Worst of all was trying to get your garden variety choir (and, with a few notable exceptions, RC choirs tended to be dreadful) to perform anything in Gregorian chant. Hopeless to play records of Solesmes - they invariably thought that "reverent" meant "slow." Of course, when chant involves a large group, and is heard from a distance, it does tend to sound good - regardless of some of the parts involved in the sum. One stereotype that is far from true is that "all nuns have beautiful voices." (They never sat next to some of the nuns that I did...) I remember one lovely Sister who used to intone "Benedictus Dominus Deus Israel" as if she were a cat in agony, and another who sounded absolutely "screechy" (though some of the older, more senile nuns thought she sounded like a little angel.) In general (and, admittedly, as those who've read my mystery worship reports may have sensed, I have no addiction whatever to children), I've found that, in totally untrained groups (not marvellous boy choirs), children tend to range through at least three keys even singing the simplest of hymns. But there are enough people out there who are so enamoured of children's voices that attempts to point this out are futile.
-------------------- Cheers, Elizabeth “History as Revelation is seldom very revealing, and histories of holiness are full of holes.” - Dermot Quinn
Posts: 6740 | From: Library or pub | Registered: Jun 2001
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tomb
Shipmate
# 174
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Posted
[latin lesson]It's a matter of quality versus quantity. In English, the difference between a long and a short "o" is a matter of a different mouth shape and placement. Compound that with the fact that it's almost impossible not to move our rubbery little English-speaking lips, and hence the sound gets turned into a dipthong. In Latin, it's a matter of quantity. "long" vowels take longer to pronounce than "short" vowels, but the quality of the vowel doesn't change. Our English-hearing ear interprets the slightly longer sound as a shift in quality or as an "accent." In reality, a long Latin vowel is the same quality as a short Latin vowel. [/latin lesson] tomb
Posts: 5039 | From: Denver, Colorado | Registered: May 2001
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the famous rachel
Shipmate
# 1258
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Joan the Dwarf:
Have you heard the raindrops drumming on the rooftops, Have you heard the raindrops {something} on the ground, Have you heard the raindrops {something something something} And running to the rivers all around.
As you've made this run round my head, I will have to fill in the gaps.... Have you heard the raindrops drumming on the rooftops, Have you heard the raindrops dripping on the ground, Have you heard the raindrops splahing in the streams And running to the rivers all around. Chorus 2nd verse... There's a busy workman, digging in the desert Digging with a spade that flashes in the sun Soon there will be water, rising in the wellshaft Spilling from the bucket as it comes. Not sure if this is metaphorical, or one of the usual weak attempts to make school-kids think about the 3rd world. Rachel.
-------------------- A shrivelled appendix to the body of Christ.
Posts: 912 | From: In the lab. | Registered: Aug 2001
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Ann
Curious
# 94
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Laura:
Doyou know the Saviour died? raised again in three short days? Me, the one for whom he died, Far away he took my sins. So I'll love him ever more! Love I never knew before! T, that stands for Calvary! That means Je-sus died for Me!
Just thought I'd share this with you - it's amazing what you can find when You're bored enough: Dough, the stuff that buys me beer. Ray, the guy who brings me beer. Me, the guy who drinks the beer. Far, a long way to get beer. So, I'll have another beer. La, I'll have another beer. Tea, no thanks I'm having beer. That will bring us back to... (reaching the crescendo of his toast, Homer looks into his beer mug, which is empty) ...DOH!!! --Homer Simpson
-------------------- Ann
Posts: 3271 | From: IO 91 PI | Registered: May 2001
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Newman's Own
Shipmate
# 420
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Posted
This thought is slightly off the track of this thread, but has some relevance, so I wanted to add yet another general complaint, partly for the edification of younger shipmates who do not recall the... relevance and such popular in the 1960s-70s.Here and there, one would find a writer, teacher, or church musician who would use currently popular rock music/lyrics which they attempted to relate to Christian teachings. It was all rather ridiculous, looking back - I thought then, and think now, that most of what they attempted to use as a gospel illustration actually had to do with sex or drugs. I once heard a confirmation class recite "Bridge Over Troubled Waters" at their ceremony, and that was one of the better ones!
-------------------- Cheers, Elizabeth “History as Revelation is seldom very revealing, and histories of holiness are full of holes.” - Dermot Quinn
Posts: 6740 | From: Library or pub | Registered: Jun 2001
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frin
Drinking coffee for Jesus
# 9
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Posted
Worship at a student society I attended last week included a "meditation" where we were asked to reflect on a pop/dance song about being happy to die right now in your arms. Apparently if we thought hard this would be like what we feel in the arms of God. I couldn't help but spend all 5 mins of the track pondering how selfish and rude it would be to die in the arms of your lover in a post-coital context (as per the song). 1st of all they'd have the question of deciding whether or not to re-dress you before calling the authorities and presumeably a cartload of emotional devestation while you are off floating in a moment of eternal bliss.
-------------------- "Even the crocodile looks after her young" - Lamentations 4, remembering Erin.
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tomb
Shipmate
# 174
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Posted
That would certainly put me off sex for a day or two....
Posts: 5039 | From: Denver, Colorado | Registered: May 2001
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Tina
Shipmate
# 63
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Posted
Ah, Joan, thanks for reminding me about that 'Water of Life/Rupert the Bear'.Here's another weather-inspired piece of wisdom: 'It's a happy day, and I thank God for the weather, It's a happy day, living it for my Lord. It's a happy day, things are gonna get better, Living each day by the promises in God's word. It's a grumpy day, and I can't stand the weather, It's a grumpy day, living it for myself. It's a grumpy day, and things aren't gonna get better, Living each day with my Bible up on my shelf.' So THAT's the answer to the question of suffering. Job and the Psalmists must be kicking themselves, eh? The really great thing is that this gets included in 'Songs & Hymns of Fluf-I mean Fellowship', while 'Lord for the years' and 'All my hope on God is founded' aren't.
-------------------- Kindness is mandatory. Anger is necessary. Despair is a terrible idea. Despair is how they win. They won't win forever.
Posts: 503 | From: South London | Registered: May 2001
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Scottie
Apprentice
# 1528
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Posted
In my previous life as a worship group team member I can call to mind a wonderful range of gruesome offerings. One of my favourites for children's worship:When I take a bath I think about the Lord And how he washed away my sins Let me tell you more... I can't remember all of it, but I do recall the wonderful line in the chorus: Jesus fills me up with hope And washes me with supersoap Another "favourite" was Binky's song - which had a chorus referring to Jesus coming back riding his white horse over the heavens - all Terry Pratchet fans immediately thought of Death and Binky which destroyed the song completely. Probably the best for a dreary Sunday morning has to be an Amy Grant number which has the uplifting lyrics We believe in God, and we all need Jesus cos life is hard - and it might not get easier... Hope all your worship experiences this weekend are uplifting! Scottie
Posts: 8 | From: Scotland | Registered: Oct 2001
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Sarkycow
La belle Dame sans merci
# 1012
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Posted
speaking of mispronouncing...there was a song we used to sing bout 5/10 years ago, and the sunday school class group i was in actually thought the chorus went 'and i get so excited lord, everytime i realise i'm a gibbon, i'm a gibbon'!!!!!! it explained a *lot* about certain of the adults in our church, we felt Anna B - a better version of *that* christmas carol? good king wencesles looked out on the feast of steven snowball hit him on the snout made it all uneven brightly shone the moon that night though the pain was cruel til the doctor came in sight riding on his mule. it goes on, but i don't remember it properly hth, viki
-------------------- “Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar.”
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Ian Climacus
Liturgical Slattern
# 944
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Posted
A thank you (!) to a friend in Australia for reminding me of this song after I'd said I left the last church after hearing "Shine Jesus Shine"...(echo in parentheses) Make way! (Make way!) Make way! (Make way!) For the King of Kings! (For the King of Kings!) Make way! (Make way!) Make way! (Make way!) And let His kingdom in!
I believe only the song leaders liked it...a fellow usher and I would always groan whenever it was flashed up on the OHP. Admiral H.
Posts: 7800 | From: On the border | Registered: Jul 2001
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Ann
Curious
# 94
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Posted
I trust you didn't have to 'process' from the church hall into the church, following the guitarist and music group (so the tune was only carried by those close enough to hear)waving whatever greenery could be filched from the vicarage garden.
-------------------- Ann
Posts: 3271 | From: IO 91 PI | Registered: May 2001
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Miffy
Ship's elephant
# 1438
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Posted
...beautiful carol though......
-------------------- "I don't feel like smiling." "You're English dear; fake it!" (Colin Firth "Easy Virtue") Growing Greenpatches
Posts: 4739 | From: The Kitchen | Registered: Oct 2001
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Ann
Curious
# 94
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Posted
Would you believe that the (music) teacher who taught us that hymn complained that at her last school the kids sang the 'gravy' words and that we should not. I mean ter say - we didn't know that carol, let alone that variation before she said.
-------------------- Ann
Posts: 3271 | From: IO 91 PI | Registered: May 2001
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Ian Climacus
Liturgical Slattern
# 944
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Posted
Thank you, ptarmigan; I too had never heard it.Talk of children's songs previously has triggered a memory of mine. I am sure this must be a kid's song (though a shaky one at that), yet we were subjected to it a number of times during church. Thankfully I can only remember... Clap another hand, clap a hand next to you, Clap another hand and sing this song. Clap another hand, clap a hand next to you, Clap another hand and sing this song.
What theological basis this has I'd be interested to know. Sure, clap your hands because the Lord has done great things; clap your hands for He has saved us...but clap your hands for the sake of it!?!?! Admiral H.
Posts: 7800 | From: On the border | Registered: Jul 2001
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
Admiral Holder's clapping song is probably used in church for the same reason as we used to sing in Sunday School: if you're happy and you know it clap your hands. Although there is no specific Christian reference, it is 'supposed' to signify that all Christians are ecstatically happy because they have Christ within them, no Christians (except the 'spiritually dead' ones are ever gloomy or depressed) so we always go about clapping our hands and with big beaming smiles. Very soon you grow up and realise you have been sold a pack of lies because it is all codswallop, but it's a nice illusion while it lasts!
-------------------- Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Newman's Own
Shipmate
# 420
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Posted
I (fortunately - for them and for myself) have little experience with small children, but just enough to remember some godawful record that was popular in religion classes for little ones about 20 years ago. I am not sure my memory serves me, but the one song that mercilessly sticks in my mind was something like this:Hi God, how do you feel today? (intermediate verse thanking God for family, friends, and certain food if I recall) Can you hear us, God? You're our best friend, God. The same record had (I'm cringing at the memory) a very happy clappy song, along these lines: I've got a joy, joy, joy, joy down in my heart (Where?), Down in my heart (Where?), Down in my heart. I've got a joy, joy, joy, joy down in my heart, Down in my heart to stay. And we're so happy, so very happy, We've got the love of Jesus in our hearts. (Repeat) Other verses spoke of having "A love for Jesus," "a love for all people," and probably other loves "down in my heart." But the last verse (I was one of the nuns who knew how to play a guitar... I'm dying remembering when I had to accompany this at a first penance service) was the worst: And if the devil doesn't like it, He can sit on a tack (Where?)...etc. Of course, I am uncertain whether discerning little ones would have looked at me at that point and believed the "and we're SO happy" part... I console myself remembering that Francis himself could not have found the stigmata so pleasant (even if many of the statues of him make it look as if he's receiving Swedish massage.)
-------------------- Cheers, Elizabeth “History as Revelation is seldom very revealing, and histories of holiness are full of holes.” - Dermot Quinn
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Laura
General nuisance
# 10
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Posted
Has anyone else ever heard the bit of doggerel entitled "The Unitarian Christmas Carol"? I'll try to reconstruct as best I can: God rest ye, Unitarians, let nothing you dismay Remember there's no evidence there was a Christmas Day. When Christ was born is just not known, no matter what they say, O, tidings of reason and fact, reason and fact, etcetera.
There was no star of Bethlehem, there was no angel song. There could have been no wise men for the journey was too long. The stories in the Bible are historically wrong. O, tiding of reason and fact... Your Christmas celebration comes from Turkey and from Greece, or winter celebrations of the ancient Middle east. In fact, your so-called holiday is but a pagan feast, O, tidings of reason & fact...
-------------------- Love is the only sane and satisfactory answer to the problem of human existence. - Erich Fromm
Posts: 16883 | From: East Coast, USA | Registered: Apr 2001
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Jasper
Shipmate
# 110
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Posted
quote: Would you believe that the (music) teacher who taught us that hymn complained that at her last school the kids sang the 'gravy' words and that we should not. I mean ter say - we didn't know that carol, let alone that variation before she said.
My music teacher tried the same thing - a long story about how her father had been thrown out of his church choir for singing said words. We had never heard the carol before either, and of course, we thought it was a great joke and copied every time we sang it.
But then we had a tradition of seeing who could get away with standing next to a teacher in Prayers and sing the 'wrong words' to certain hymns, like My eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord (i.e. the version about the unfortunate freefaller)...
[rogue UBB edited] [ 23 October 2001: Message edited by: frin ]
Posts: 175 | From: Bristol | Registered: May 2001
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Miffy
Ship's elephant
# 1438
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Posted
Talking of daft music teachers (circa 1970 something):Our school choir had been rehearsing 'Ave Maria'(Holst setting) for the forthcoming annual Commemoration service. We'd already performed it a couple of times,and had succeeded in giving a pretty competent rendering of said piece. Then... at the 11th hour, our poor teacher received instructions from a higher authority (the headmistress)to make a slight change in the wording. Apparently, "Sancta Maria, ora pro nobis," was not on...we were a C Of E Church school, and members of the board of governors were to attend the service. I'm sure the thought of their collective displeasure ranked far above the prospect of a thunderbolt being rained down on the company by the almmighty, (ecumenism not having been invented in those days!)
Well, we scrubbed the offending phrase, and bunged in an extra 'Sancta Maria' in its place. Didn't work, though. There was always some bright spark who messed it up!
-------------------- "I don't feel like smiling." "You're English dear; fake it!" (Colin Firth "Easy Virtue") Growing Greenpatches
Posts: 4739 | From: The Kitchen | Registered: Oct 2001
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Anna B
Shipmate
# 1439
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Posted
To get back to "the angel Gabriel" carol---I thought the line was "most highly flavored baby."
-------------------- Bad Christian (TM)
Posts: 3069 | From: near a lot of fish | Registered: Oct 2001
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Campbell Ritchie
Shipmate
# 730
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Posted
Eleanor has tol dme who the 6th of the constipated men in the Bible was. . . . Peter, who was solid as a rock. da_musicman is of course right about Titus, who was the 7th. Titus [full stop] CR
-------------------- The greatest problem about Christianity is that it condemns you to eternity with me.
Posts: 396 | From: Middlesbrough | Registered: Jul 2001
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Ian Climacus
Liturgical Slattern
# 944
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Posted
Newman's Own reminded me of another "joyful" song... Joy is the flag flown high From the castle of my heart From the castle of my heart From the castle of my heart Joy is the flag flown high From the castle of my heart When the King is in residence there!
After reading and remembering the "Countdown" song, I am rememebered that at the time the Sunday School I attended added a "Tick Tick Tick Tick Boom!" at the end.
What I remember though was Will Smith's "Boom! Shake the Room!" single had come out around the same time and it too had "Tick Tick Tick Tick Boom!" as a line...I kept imagining Jesus' return having a lot to do with Will Smith! Admiral H.
Posts: 7800 | From: On the border | Registered: Jul 2001
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
Robin - Gratias would be closer to (southern English) "Grut-si-arse" than "Grat-". The sound is somewhere in between.
-------------------- Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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dyfrig
Blue Scarfed Menace
# 15
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Late Quartet: Don't have a face like a coffee pot A coffee-pot is long and thin Just have a face like a tea-pot Other souls to Jesus win.We want everybody to happy We want everybody to be glad We want everbody to be happy in the Lord (Shouted)AND WE DON'T WANT ANYBODY SAD You probably won't believe this song even exists, but it truly does and I think it is worthy of an award. I learnt it at a 'Children's Christian Crusade' in 1978 in Sheffield when I was 11. LQ
I can give you the phone numbers of some good counsellors if need help. I really thought we'd plumbed the absolute depths already on this thread, but that and the Spirit song just...well...it's enough to make you Tractarian.
-------------------- "He was wrong in the long run, but then, who isn't?" - Tony Judt
Posts: 6917 | From: pob dydd Iau, am hanner dydd | Registered: Apr 2001
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Oriel
Shipmate
# 748
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Posted
I know of one which talks of giving Jesus "all the homemade stew"..
-------------------- Unlike the link previously in my sig, I actually update my Livejournal from time to time.
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