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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Doctor Who: (again) Winter 2012
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
So, thanks to iTunes, network agreements, time zones, etc., I just now finally got to see this thing.
Meh, not bad. I can't say I was surprised about COO dying—you can't avoid the Internet entirely, y'know—but, to those who think recurring characters who die every episode are boring, go watch a few episodes of South Park. The jokes about "oh my God, they killed Clara! Those bastards!" started almost before the episode had finished on BBC America.
Seeing more of Sontaran with Personality is always amusing. The problem with most Who monsters is that they come in mobs—vast armies of Daleks, Cybermen, Silurians, Sea Devils, Sontarans, Autons, Silents, Judoon, etc. Sure, their leader might get a personality—Davros or the Master—but most of the classic monsters are nameless, faceless hordes, each of which is interchangeable with the next. Seriously, find me a reason why, in most stories from classic Who or earlier seasons of NuHu, you couldn't replace the Daleks with the Cybermen with the Sontarans. Strax and Vastra are both indicative of a strength recent seasons have had—hordes of interchangeable enemies are going away, replaced by actual characters. Heck, even the Daleks had a huminoid spokeswoman in the last season!
This is something the last season has done a pretty good job of so far; for each of the stories, there's a reason why that particular enemy was used. The Daleks were something other than a Big Dumb Horde of Monsters; they were a Big Horde of Monsters with a unique relationship to the Doctor. The angels in the last episode resembled their original incarnation more than the Byzantium version; a creature that works in unique ways, rather than as a generic army of deadly things. It might not be perfect (hi there, "Power of Three!" What a wasted opportunity you were!), but I think things are getting better.
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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tessaB
Shipmate
# 8533
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Posted
I enjoyed it a lot, apart from a little moralistic corner that kept saying 'well, he's not acting much like a married man.'
Damn it I like River Song. Don't you go cheating on her Mr. Smith ![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
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tessaB
eating chocolate to the glory of God
Holiday cottage near Rye
Posts: 1068 | From: U.K. | Registered: Sep 2004
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
most of the classic monsters are nameless, faceless hordes, each of which is interchangeable with the next. Seriously, find me a reason why, in most stories from classic Who or earlier seasons of NuHu, you couldn't replace the Daleks with the Cybermen with the Sontarans.
It's true. I think the daleks in good stories have always been a Big Horde of Monsters with a Unique Relationship to the Doctor, as you put it. (There are poor stories in which they're a Big Horde of Monsters with a Unique Relationship to Terry Nation.) The problem is with returning monsters. In the first appearance of the cybermen or the sontarans or the silurians they were there to fulfill a specific function in that particular plot. In any subsequent appearance they're there to fulfill the role of returning monster and the production teams is resting the daleks this week. (The ice warriors are an exception: the ice warriors started out as generic monster of the week and then got one story in which the Doctor thinks they're the returning monsters and the point is that they're not. And then they go back to being the returning monsters.)
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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The Machine Elf
Irregular polytope
# 1622
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Posted
My understanding is that for Time Lords to get married, they have to tell each other their real names (rather than telling their spouse look into their eyes to see that the groom has been replaced by a tessellating robot), so he's no more married than he was murdered and cremated.
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Elves of any kind are strange folk.
Posts: 1298 | From: the edge of the deep green sea | Registered: Oct 2001
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by tessaB:
I enjoyed it a lot, apart from a little moralistic corner that kept saying 'well, he's not acting much like a married man.'
Damn it I like River Song. Don't you go cheating on her Mr. Smith
The question is does death dissolve marriage if the one party dies before they get married in the other party's timeline?
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
The question is does death dissolve marriage if the one party dies before they get married in the other party's timeline?
There's a reason Time Lords rarely talk about their personal lives. There just aren't enough verb tenses to cope.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by tessaB:
I enjoyed it a lot, apart from a little moralistic corner that kept saying 'well, he's not acting much like a married man.'
Damn it I like River Song. Don't you go cheating on her Mr. Smith
I noticed that too. While we've seen that Clara Oswin will flirt with any questionably relationshipped man (hello Nina!), I think the show owes us a few explanations.
Because, come to think of it, where is River? Weren't she and the Doctor running off to explore the universe together at the end of the last half-season? Wasn't there something about her never letting him be alone? And yet, there he is, alone . . . and not exploring squat. The TARDIS is practically wearing mourning garb. It's dark, industrial, and more like the old First Doctor interior than anything we've seen in a very, very long time. Sure, he's distraught over Amy and Rory, his running off to be the Doctor may have been a rebound run off, but he was still doing what the Doctor does best—explore things.
I think something's happened to River, and, whatever it is, it isn't good. All three Ponds may be out of the picture now.
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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The Rogue
Shipmate
# 2275
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Posted
Perhaps River will turn up when the Tardis thinks that it will be good for the Doctor to see her again.
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If everyone starts thinking outside the box does outside the box come back inside?
Posts: 2507 | From: Toton | Registered: Feb 2002
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
Because, come to think of it, where is River? Weren't she and the Doctor running off to explore the universe together at the end of the last half-season? Wasn't there something about her never letting him be alone? And yet, there he is, alone . . . and not exploring squat. The TARDIS is practically wearing mourning garb. It's dark, industrial, and more like the old First Doctor interior than anything we've seen in a very, very long time. Sure, he's distraught over Amy and Rory, his running off to be the Doctor may have been a rebound run off, but he was still doing what the Doctor does best—explore things.
From the redesign of TARDIS, I am assuming Quite Some Length Of Time has passed since we last saw the Doctor. Lots of stuff could have happened.
When the 10th first met River she told him that the last time she saw "her" Doctor they went to a concert, he cried and gave her a sonic screwdriver (which, of course, is what ultimately allowed her memory imprint to be saved in the Library). It is possible that the 11th has already done that--while we were led to believe that his deep mourning at the start of this episode is because Amy & Rory are happily living out their lives in early 20th century New York, it may be that he was actually grieving the loss of River.
That would actually make more sense than being upset that Amy and Rory lived out long and happy lives together.
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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
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The Rogue
Shipmate
# 2275
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Posted
Would the Doctor not give River the sonic because if he doesn't he knows he will see her again?
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If everyone starts thinking outside the box does outside the box come back inside?
Posts: 2507 | From: Toton | Registered: Feb 2002
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Nenya
Shipmate
# 16427
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Posted
I thought the doctor being married to Amy's daughter was one of the silliest of storylines and like to pretend it never happened. IMHO. YMMV.
Nen - good at denial. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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They told me I was delusional. I nearly fell off my unicorn.
Posts: 1289 | Registered: May 2011
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Rogue:
Would the Doctor not give River the sonic because if he doesn't he knows he will see her again?
Let's assume that River already said something like "Guess what, Sweetie! Next week I am leading an expedition to the Library! What fun!"
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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
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Trudy Scrumptious
BBE Shieldmaiden
# 5647
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
Because, come to think of it, where is River? Weren't she and the Doctor running off to explore the universe together at the end of the last half-season? Wasn't there something about her never letting him be alone? And yet, there he is, alone . . . and not exploring squat. The TARDIS is practically wearing mourning garb. It's dark, industrial, and more like the old First Doctor interior than anything we've seen in a very, very long time. Sure, he's distraught over Amy and Rory, his running off to be the Doctor may have been a rebound run off, but he was still doing what the Doctor does best—explore things.
From the redesign of TARDIS, I am assuming Quite Some Length Of Time has passed since we last saw the Doctor. Lots of stuff could have happened.
When the 10th first met River she told him that the last time she saw "her" Doctor they went to a concert, he cried and gave her a sonic screwdriver (which, of course, is what ultimately allowed her memory imprint to be saved in the Library). It is possible that the 11th has already done that--while we were led to believe that his deep mourning at the start of this episode is because Amy & Rory are happily living out their lives in early 20th century New York, it may be that he was actually grieving the loss of River.
That would actually make more sense than being upset that Amy and Rory lived out long and happy lives together.
I think if we don't see River this season, I am going to go with this explanation and assume that their last meeting pre-Library (on her timeline) occured during this year's midseason gap. It would certainly explain the Doctor's sadness.
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Books and things.
I lied. There are no things. Just books.
Posts: 7428 | From: Closer to Paris than I am to Vancouver | Registered: Mar 2004
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Sparrow
Shipmate
# 2458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Heavenly Anarchist:
Love Madame Vastra, I think her and Jennie need their own spin off I bought my eldest lots of Doctor Who figures for Christmas last year and was disappointed not to be able to get her for my desk ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif)
Which episode were they in originally? Also the Sontaran?
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For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life,nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Posts: 3149 | From: Bottom right hand corner of the UK | Registered: Mar 2002
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The Rogue
Shipmate
# 2275
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Posted
A Good Man Goes to War
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If everyone starts thinking outside the box does outside the box come back inside?
Posts: 2507 | From: Toton | Registered: Feb 2002
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Sparrow
Shipmate
# 2458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Rogue:
A Good Man Goes to War
Thanks!
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For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life,nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Posts: 3149 | From: Bottom right hand corner of the UK | Registered: Mar 2002
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
Is it too much to hope that Vastra, Jenny and Strax might become the eleventh Doctor's UNIT?)
As they are featured in the "What happens next" segment at the end of the show you could have your wish.
That was a bit eagle-eyed, balaam. I had to watch it again twice to notice that!
A friend of mine said yesterday he thought that "I'm a lizard woman from the dawn of time, and this is my wife" is one of the best lines ever delivered in a tv drama.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Eigon
Shipmate
# 4917
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Posted
I love Madame Vastra's line, too!
And today I discovered a blog called Doctor Her, which is a feminist view of Doctor Who, and has a wonderful review of The Snowmen (under the title "My bustle's stuck").
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Laugh hard. Run fast. Be kind.
Posts: 3710 | From: Hay-on-Wye, town of books | Registered: Aug 2003
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M.
Ship's Spare Part
# 3291
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Posted
It does bug me that the Doctor recognised Clara's/Oswin's voice. It had bugged me in 'Asylum of the Daleks' that she had a normal voice, as surely it should have been dalekised, like the rest of her.
M.
(It also slightly bugs me that I think of 'Oswin' as a man's name. Not a very common one though, I'm not sure where I know it from.)
Posts: 2303 | From: Lurking in Surrey | Registered: Sep 2002
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
Brother Oswin, who was the young novice who helped Brother Cadfael with his herbs in the TV series, perhaps? That's where I know it from.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Sparrow
Shipmate
# 2458
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Posted
Did you notice Clara Oswin OSWALD's birthday, as on her tombstone?
![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life,nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Posts: 3149 | From: Bottom right hand corner of the UK | Registered: Mar 2002
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Pine Marten
Shipmate
# 11068
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Posted
Yes - 23 November, wasn't it...? ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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Keep love in your heart. A life without it is like a sunless garden when the flowers are dead. - Oscar Wilde
Posts: 1731 | From: Isle of Albion | Registered: Feb 2006
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Mudfrog
Shipmate
# 8116
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ronald Binge:
Who do you think will get more traction with the British public - ++Nichols' Vatican scripted thunderbolt against gay marriage, or Madame Vastra's "I'm a lizard woman from the dawn of time, and this is my wife".
![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif)
Every bloody episode there's a gay reference! It's a bit tedious now and so predictable that every time I watch Dr Who I'm waiting for it; I wasn't disappointed. Well I was but ...
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"The point of having an open mind, like having an open mouth, is to close it on something solid."
G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 8237 | From: North Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2004
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pine Marten:
Yes - 23 November, wasn't it...?
Was it? What year?
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Jay-Emm
Shipmate
# 11411
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by M.:
It does bug me that the Doctor recognised Clara's/Oswin's voice. It had bugged me in 'Asylum of the Daleks' that she had a normal voice, as surely it should have been dalekised, like the rest of her.
M.
I think they can get away with that as the Dr also sees 'her' talking to him, so her subconscious is clearly doing a fair bit of on the fly fakery.
Sontaran companion was quite a nice change, even if that's all the experience we get.
I still wish we'd seen what a Dalek in denial would look like as a companion.
Posts: 1643 | Registered: May 2006
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Pine Marten
Shipmate
# 11068
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
quote:
Originally posted by Pine Marten:
Yes - 23 November, wasn't it...?
Was it? What year?
23 November 1866.
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Keep love in your heart. A life without it is like a sunless garden when the flowers are dead. - Oscar Wilde
Posts: 1731 | From: Isle of Albion | Registered: Feb 2006
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Yeah, first I thought "OH, SHIT!" when I read that, but that would be '63.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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M.
Ship's Spare Part
# 3291
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Posted
Originally posted by Ariel:
quote:
Brother Oswin, who was the young novice who helped Brother Cadfael with his herbs in the TV series, perhaps? That's where I know it from.
Oh, yes, of course!
And
Originally posted by Jay-Emm:
quote:
I think they can get away with that as the Dr also sees 'her' talking to him, so her subconscious is clearly doing a fair bit of on the fly fakery.
Good thought.
M.
Posts: 2303 | From: Lurking in Surrey | Registered: Sep 2002
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Pine Marten
Shipmate
# 11068
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Yeah, first I thought "OH, SHIT!" when I read that, but that would be '63.
Yes, I realised the year was wrong but still wonder if there is anything to it...?
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Keep love in your heart. A life without it is like a sunless garden when the flowers are dead. - Oscar Wilde
Posts: 1731 | From: Isle of Albion | Registered: Feb 2006
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The Rogue
Shipmate
# 2275
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Posted
There is a 1:365 chance on the date. Of course, there may or may not be such a thing as a coincidence in Dr Who.
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If everyone starts thinking outside the box does outside the box come back inside?
Posts: 2507 | From: Toton | Registered: Feb 2002
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
It's the Oswald bit that's bugging me. I keep thinking of Oswald Bastable. But I can't see any immediate connection.
(Yes, I do know there's a time traveller in Michael Moorcock's books of that name, as well as the E. Nesbit books.)
ETA: Both Oswin and Oswald are Saxon names, of course! Remember Mr Saxon, or is that too far-fetched a connection?
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pine Marten:
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Yeah, first I thought "OH, SHIT!" when I read that, but that would be '63.
Yes, I realised the year was wrong but still wonder if there is anything to it...?
Probably a coincidence, but Nov. 23, 1966 would have fallen about half way through "The Power of the Daleks"--which is to say, the first story of the Second Doctor.
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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
The very first episode of Doctor Who went on air the day after JFK was killed. Does that help at all?
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
...no.
![[Waterworks]](graemlins/bawling.gif)
NO! It doesn't help at all! NO!!
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Pine Marten
Shipmate
# 11068
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Posted
Chapelhead: ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
quote:
Originally posted by Pine Marten:
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Yeah, first I thought "OH, SHIT!" when I read that, but that would be '63.
Yes, I realised the year was wrong but still wonder if there is anything to it...?
Probably a coincidence, but Nov. 23, 1966 would have fallen about half way through "The Power of the Daleks"--which is to say, the first story of the Second Doctor.
Wasn't the Second Doctor the one who battled the Great Intelligence? Is there a link here with Daleks/Clara/Intelligence? Or are we just going round and round here ending up our own exhaust?
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Keep love in your heart. A life without it is like a sunless garden when the flowers are dead. - Oscar Wilde
Posts: 1731 | From: Isle of Albion | Registered: Feb 2006
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
The very first episode of Doctor Who went on air the day after JFK was killed.
And the day (as in Sheryl Crow's song) that Aldous Huxley died. And also the day CS Lewis died.
quote:
Originally posted by Pine Marten:
quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
Probably a coincidence, but Nov. 23, 1966 would have fallen about half way through "The Power of the Daleks"--which is to say, the first story of the Second Doctor.
Wasn't the Second Doctor the one who battled the Great Intelligence? Is there a link here with Daleks/Clara/Intelligence? Or are we just going round and round here ending up our own exhaust?
That's when the story was broadcast, but in the internal chronology the story that's going on at the time is possibly "The Evil of the Daleks". Which is often voted the best Who ever - and no-one can dispute that because its one of the lost stories so no-one who didn't see it at the time can know how good it was...
It was shown in May 1967 but set starting in July 1966. We know the date (and for historically significant dates 20th July beats 23rd November - even though it wasn't so important yet - coincidence? ) because 20th July 1966 is "The Doctor's Busiest Day" - it is the end of the story called "The War Machines" where the Doctory picks up Ben and Polly as companions in London, "The Faceless Ones" takes place entirely on that day, mostly at Gatwick Airport - at the end of which Ben and Polly return to take their lives on the day they left - and the Tardis is stolen and carried off on a lorry - and that's the start of the story "The Evil of the Daleks". And the internal timeline of that story goes on for some weeks or months so its quite possible that it still going on at the end of November.
Can there be spoilers for a story no-one will ever see?
Anyway, in "Evil of the Daleks" the the Tardis has been stolen by so that the Doctor will follow it back to an antique shop run by which is connected by a sort of time tunnel built by the Victorian-era Professor Waterfield and his assistant Maxtible to the same building 100 years in the past where Daleks are waiting to capture the Doctor and Jamie. Waterford is going along with the scheme because the Daleks are threatening to torture his daughter Victoria.
So they are stuck without the Tardis in 1866. And there they are persuaded to assist the Daleks in isolating the "Human Factor", that is the personality traits that Daleks have lost, and in growing three new experimental Daleks called Alpha, Beta, and Omega (Wikipedia tells me, my memory wants it to be Delta of course) And so the Doctor helps transform three new Daleks into rather cute friendly humanised Daleks. That want to play with trains.
Of course it all goes downhill from there fast as various Evil Plots are revealed and the Doctor and Jamie and the Victoria travel to Skaro to fae the Emperor Dalek.
So sometime in late 1866 the Doctor and Jamie are in Professor Waterford's house just outside London with three baby Daleks and fixed link time transporters to 1966 and to far future Skaro.
I'm pretty sure Stephen Moffat knows that...
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
Such geekdom. I never thought it possible outside Doctor Who fan sites. I'm so proud of us all. So very proud. ![[Tear]](graemlins/tear.gif)
Anyhoo, the interweb is thrumming with adulation for Strax, the Sontaran in The Snowmen. And since it's still technically Christmas, we can still enjoy some Sontaran carol singing.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Gill H
Shipmate
# 68
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Posted
Loved Strax. Is it my imagination or does he sound more Welsh now?
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*sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.
- Lyda Rose
Posts: 9313 | From: London | Registered: May 2001
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Ken just made my head explode. Actually explode. Send flowers.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
Oh yes. Mention of the lost episodes that Jeremy Bentham told us were The Best Ever Made, and you're wrong if you disagree with His opinion.
And then we actually got to see The Celestial Toymaker and The Gunslingers. Precedent tells me that episode's absolute crap and there's a reason we'd all forgotten The Great Intelligence.
So the fanbois get their obscure token reference, while the rest of us get a practically new enemy, one without cyberman/dalek baggage. Everyone's happy. Now, if only they can bring back the Mara . . .
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
Oh yes. Mention of the lost episodes that Jeremy Bentham told us were The Best Ever Made, and you're wrong if you disagree with His opinion.
And then we actually got to see The Celestial Toymaker and The Gunslingers.
I'm now becoming thoroughly Who-ish by hunting down all the 1960s Who, using Loose Cannon reconstructions as appropriate. I just finished the Hartnell Era last week.
And I'm also reading a few blogs as I go, partly to see if my reactions are the same as those of other people. And it was particularly amusing to see the general chorus of "what the hell was Jeremy on when we declared The Celestial Toymaker a classic?"
And one of the blogs had some great insights about the whole nature of fandom in the 80s and 90s when it was impossible for people to get ANY of that material for themselves, rather than read about it in books written by 'experts'.
I'm heartily thankful to that teenage boy who recorded all the audio. Even if the pictures don't move, having the script and dialogue intact really does enable the stories to be experienced to a high degree. Which is why I know that I won't care very much if someone finds another episode of The Celestial Toymaker, but that if someone finds a piece of The Myth Makers or The Massacre I'll be constantly checking for news of when I can see it.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
Seriously, find me a reason why, in most stories from classic Who or earlier seasons of NuHu, you couldn't replace the Daleks with the Cybermen with the Sontarans.
I think that's true in any story that forgets the reasons why different "monsters" behave the way that they do - their motivations - and just labels them as "threat".
I've just watched The Tenth Planet a couple of days ago. And by far the most striking and chilling part of the story is the 2nd episode, where the Cybermen truly behave in a logical, uncaring Cyberman fashion that is completely different to the behaviour of Daleks, the previous iconic villains. The Cybermen aren't a threat to humanity because they want to destroy us all, they're a threat to humanity because logic dictates that being a Cyberman is a better option and they're not interested in whether it FEELS like a GOOD option.
I'm yet to see the extent to which the Patrick Troughton Cybermen stories will live up to this or completely trash it.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by jedijudy:
For Kelly.
Bless.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Pine Marten
Shipmate
# 11068
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
Such geekdom. I never thought it possible outside Doctor Who fan sites. I'm so proud of us all. So very proud.
I love the Ship so much... ken: ![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
quote:
Anyhoo, the interweb is thrumming with adulation for Strax, the Sontaran in The Snowmen. And since it's still technically Christmas, we can still enjoy some Sontaran carol singing.
Thank you, Adeodatus, that's cheered up my morning!
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Keep love in your heart. A life without it is like a sunless garden when the flowers are dead. - Oscar Wilde
Posts: 1731 | From: Isle of Albion | Registered: Feb 2006
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
So sometime in late 1866 the Doctor and Jamie are in Professor Waterford's house just outside London with three baby Daleks and fixed link time transporters to 1966 and to far future Skaro.
I'm pretty sure Stephen Moffat knows that...
In general I don't think Stephen Moffat engages in this kind of convoluted continuity that is only of interest to hardened Doctor Who nuts. On the whole I think that's a good thing, but in this case it'll be brilliant if that's what he's doing.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
See, I'd rate the Underground map as a moderately convoluted bit of continuity right there. I certainly didn't pick it up just from watching, as I haven't yet seen the relevant episodes (but once I saw it mentioned elsewhere I did think "oh yes I've read that in passing").
I suppose there is a difference, though, between the kind of one-liners that make fans excited and seriously following through a piece of continuity.
(Cute little cross-references aren't new. Just saw one from 1966 this evening!)
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Michael Snow
Shipmate
# 16363
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
... and just in time to miss wishing the show a happy 49th birthday!...
First, I couldn't believe it has been that long, and now, I am feeling awful old. There should be a rule about not mentioning anniversaries of living entities beyond 40 years at the most.
I haven't seen much of the Doctor since Tom Baker. My step daughter, on the other hand, doesn't miss much. She made this Dr. Who t-shirt design, a take-off of the first line of Pride and Prejudice. http://www.redbubble.com/people/nyuszi
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http://spurgeonwarquotes.wordpress.com/
Posts: 62 | From: S. Dak./ Romania | Registered: Apr 2011
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