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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Circus: Mafia on the Planet Dimthing Tourist Bus
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
Otto, are you adding Eliabulon to the group of three, to make the group of four?
Ios (Autenrieth Road)
Hophtrig (Alban)
Grafinn Ekatarina Eliabulon (Eliab)
Codine (Gwai)
Otto notes that this kind of reasoning is unfortunate:
quote:
Originally posted by Barefoot Friar:
I voted for Cho Bacca because 1) I suspected her anyway, and B) I couldn't really decide between her and Codine, and III) I decided voting with a known innocent is better than splitting it, because 4) we learn something useful either way.
I know I nominated Hophtrig, but that was a bit of pot stirring I did to see what might turn up. Turned out to be useful, even though I didn't push it due to a RealLyfe thing.
So there's that. She may end up being another Lesley, but gosh darn it I'm sick of waffling.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
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Posted
Why do you find it unfortunate, Otto?
FWIW (not much... that and five cents will get you a hairful of Pepto Bismol): it pretty much agrees with my own reasoning for that vote.
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Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gwai:
Codine smiled, perhaps heartened by the recent success. "Besides that our doctor is clearly on the ball?"
About freakin' time, innit?
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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Alban
Shipmate
# 9047
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Posted
The good Doctor John seems to be on a winning streak. Let us hoist John on our shoulders and parade Doctor John up and down the aisle.
Hophtrig's going to be pretty careful about accusing Ios, she's clever, well spoken and seems pretty honest. Besides, look at the (albeit richly deserved) fate that befell the last person who accused her.
But, as Hophtrig has said before, Hophtrig is a little querulous about narrowing the group down to three.
Anyway, the lights are on, so on with the memorial to Choey, Hophtrig is aiming for something a bit like this
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Whoever you are, wherever you go, Hophtrig is your friend!
Posts: 722 | From: Under a (long white) cloud | Registered: Feb 2005
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Otto finds it unfortunate that an innocent (another innocent) was voted off.
Someone tell Otto how we will avoid doing that again. Please.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
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Posted
Otto, I don't believe that there's any way to assure we don't lynch an Innocent. Also, we all make our decisions differently. So we may have different ideas of who to vote for, or different ideas of why to vote for someone.
What were your reasons for voting for Codine originally? Hunches or intuitions are fine. We're not all assemblers of big logical cases like some are. If you can articulate some bit about the sense that led you to pick Codine for your vote instead of either of the other nominees, that will be extra ideas that the rest of us can consider.
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Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Otto looked at what was said by and about Codine and Choey. It looked like Codine had less information to go on. Otto knew that absence of info did not mean necessarily anything. Otto also looked at Choey, what was said by and about. Otto also looked at Hophtrig, and thought back to a weird early on the bus alliance for a nomination of Otto.
Otto looked at Hophtrig's behaviour and Grafinn's behaviour and did not find that early suspected alliance continued. Otto is not sure though what made Grafinn be put off the list.
Otto worries about decisiveness and stopping waffling as a Good Thing. Otto does have intuition, strengthened by the FBC. At the moment his intuition suggests to him to worry about Hophtrig and Codine, but to also worry a little about the Grafinn.
At the same time, Otto wonders why the threats against him have not materialized. He is grateful for this, and suspects that the presumed innocents by the good-protectors have been targeted by the killer-meanies, and because people are unsure of him, he is being left to second string consideration. Second string consideration to both groups: meanies and goodies.
Otto feels uneasy and a little queasy about of this. This thinking makes him want a nap. So he naps. With the FBC all snuggly up to him.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
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Posted
Curiously, on Dimthing Night Three during the Seven Hundred Mile Real Lyfe challenge, I found myself wondering if Hophtrig and Codine were Naughty. At that time Choey and Otto were seeming more Innocent to me than Hophtrig and Codine. I haven't been able to recapture what my reading/sense was of Beings' words that led me to that intuitive feel, so I've been ignoring it. Maybe I should reconsider it.
In any case, Hophtrig appears to figure in many combinations. Friend Hophtrig, sometimes our duty impels us to painful things and there is no good way out (fictitious friend A. nods her head in agreement). You can have as many hugs as you like on the way out the airlock door to retrieve our engine, cold comfort as that may be.
The time has come: I nominate Hophtrig.
[ 08. April 2014, 00:06: Message edited by: Autenrieth Road ]
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Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Otto passes the bottle, puts the flute into his head pocket, chucks a handful of raisins down his throats, and with bright magenta tears in his vitreous and compound eyes, asks Hophtrig if he has a last meal request.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Alban
Shipmate
# 9047
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Posted
Hophtrig wants you to know you are making a big mistake.
Hophtrig is not going to make a kneejerk reactive nomination. Hophtrig will continue to leave it to cleverer people than Hophtrig to try and work out who is naughty. Ios, Hophtrig knows that Hophtrig was probably going to be nominated anyway, so Hophtrig doesn't blame Ios for the choice Ios has made.
Hophtrig knows that somehow, Hophtrig has come to look naughty. Hophtrig urges people to think hard about things, very hard.
Hophtrig is sorry, Ios, the Lesley memorial button prize will not be Ios' today, of this Hophtrig is sure.
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Whoever you are, wherever you go, Hophtrig is your friend!
Posts: 722 | From: Under a (long white) cloud | Registered: Feb 2005
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Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
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Posted
Oh Hophtrig, you and Otto tug at my heart strings. It's a brilliant cover for a Possessed Being, if you are Possessed (see, look what you've done to my nice serene confidence of yesterday).
If you, Hophtrig, are not Possessed, then the alternative is that at least one of Eliabulon or Codine is Possessed. And that's really depressing. If you and/or Otto are Possessed then you are telling sweet lies wrapped in fluff, and the worst side effect might be that I become friends with sweet creative Beings. But if either or both of Eliabulon or Codine is Possessed, then they are telling wicked deceitful lies designed to warp my sense of what's logical.
I wish some other Beings on this bus would wake up and have an opinion.
Here's where...
...Zapaterietxe shows up to assert a whole raft of incontrovertible facts proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that Hophtrig is guilty (and will Z improve his record to 2/5, or will he be completely wrong again?)...
...John shows up to be quite honestly logical and do his level best...
...Eliabulon shows up to point out some seemingly innocuous flaw in my reasoning which causes my whole carefully built analytical edifice to collapse...
...Codine shows up to say something so incredibly honest-sounding that I don't know how she does it; I can unfortunately imagine a Possessed Codine sounding exactly the same, which makes me nervous...
...Otto shows up with his flute and sings a wistful song with a crooked metre and expresses fear and concern and makes me feel like a complete heel for suspecting him too... (And now we're back to the beginning: brilliant cover if you're Possessed.)
My fictitious friend A. is in the fictititious state of California (it's got to be fictitious: no place real has weather this continuously gorgeous) at a fictitious conference and is too busy pondering questions such as "how to surface and operationalize business rules" and "do we need cubes" to help me out. However, she has offered to make me a random number generator if I need one at some point and can't find a dart board.
Hophtrig, if you're Possessed, then good, you'll be the one Possessed we need to send out the airlock today or tomorrow. If you're Innocent, then if I know that, then my mind will be freed to seriously consider Eliabulon and/or Codine as the terrifying Possessed mastermind. As it is I only have uncertainty, and my mind skitters away from E and C if it has any alternative. So that's why I think it's good to send you after our engine today.
But that's purely personal to how my mind thinks. Wake up sleeping Other Sleeping Beings! What do you-all think? And surely we're not going to have a lynching with only one nominee?
Hophtrig and Otto, while we're waiting for them to wake up, shall we sit in the HHH for old times' sake and play cards?
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Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
Ios, time is short so I must be brief. But you're on the right track I think.
I think the guilty have no real defense, and so must rely on empathy to keep them alive. And note how, as we have drawn extolerably closer, two have grown so lovable and empathetic! It's not proof of possession, but taken together it's quite interesting, isn't it?
My RealLyfe is pulling now but I think you're right. They gave us a gift last night. We're going to use it.
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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Alban
Shipmate
# 9047
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Posted
If John looks at Hophtrig/Alban's signature, John will see an interesting point. Hophtrig's friendship, lovability and empathy has been there from the beginning. Hophtrig has not changed because Hophtrig has no defence. Hophtrig is, was and always will be your friend.
Hophtrig thinks few have a real defence on this bus, guilty and innocent both.
Ios, Hophtrig would love a game of cards in the hidey hole with you. Hophtrig hopes you have some cards, for the friends' old fount of everything the friends might need, our good friend Choey, has sadly left us.
[ 08. April 2014, 09:52: Message edited by: Alban ]
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Whoever you are, wherever you go, Hophtrig is your friend!
Posts: 722 | From: Under a (long white) cloud | Registered: Feb 2005
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
"So" says Otto, "then Eliabulon, my dear Codine, or someone else? Whosit you think?"
Otto feels we are feeling our way through quicksand with mud as our map.
[ 08. April 2014, 14:57: Message edited by: no prophet ]
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Alban
Shipmate
# 9047
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Posted
There is little more Hophtrig could have said than Hophtrig has.
Anything you want to know, anything more you think Hophtrig could give us to go on (apart from the sanitary receptacle, which Hophtrig must admit he has repurposed as the pouch in Hophtrig's Choey memorial piece, which Hophtrig is loath to disassemble) all you need do is ask. Hophtrig feels like Hophtrig is less of a mystery wrapped in an enigma than some others Hophtrig can think of.
Hophtrig likes Otto's simile. Hophtrig fears the current path the friends are establishing will see the friends inexorably mired in quicksand.
The words of a naughty trying to save itself or the words of an innocent trying to save Hophtrig's friends? They'd sound the same were they either. Hophtrig will steadfastly proclaim Hophtrig's goodness, and will not stop doing so.
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Whoever you are, wherever you go, Hophtrig is your friend!
Posts: 722 | From: Under a (long white) cloud | Registered: Feb 2005
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
The more I consider the words that have been spoken, the actions taken, and my general gut feeling, the more I find myself questioning Hophtrig's innocence. I also find myself wondering about Otto.
You know, Otto has been on my radar for quite some time. It started out because Otto had said a lot of nothing. It got a little better, then a little worse, then a little better. Right now I'm back to suspecting Otto again. I don't have a long, convincing list of reasons why. At the moment I only have my intuition.
Recently Otto and Hophtrig have been working the empathy angle really hard. Hophtrig says, "Oh, I'm just fun, lovable, little me. I've been loveable this whole time." That is true. Loveable to the point of annoying before the bus broke down, then cooling it suddenly. Why? Then as soon as he's a major suspect again, he returns to it. Again, why?
I freely admit that as an accusation it kind of stinks; being loveable is the worst reason to suspect someone ever. I'm not accusing Hophtrig or Otto for that reason. I'm trying to figure out patterns of behavior, and this pattern makes me pause and wonder. Hophtrig will come back with some answer, and I'll hear it and think about it, but so far his answers haven't actually answered my questions. Because I honestly don't think any answer he gives really can answer my questions, because I'm not sure how to really ask my questions in a way he can answer.
I'm sick and tired of waffling. I can feel good about a vote for Hophtrig. I can feel good about a vote for Otto. Whichever one seems the most wickedest (or the least goodest, as the case may be) when it's time to vote will get my vote.
Oh, but Otto isn't a nomination? He is now. I nominate Otto von Biggleswarpski
[ 08. April 2014, 19:57: Message edited by: Barefoot Friar ]
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
I would like to think aloud about Ios' and Otto's question: Could Eliabulon be possessed?
Well now. Joostein very subtly suggested that she was. Let's look back over Joostein's gallows speech, shall we?
Joostein believed Cho Bacca and Otto to be innocent -- we now know Choey was, but I'm spectacularly unconvinced about Otto. On the other hand, he believed Zapaterietxe was the other Possessed and that Codine was the sympathizer, and we've seen that in reality the sympathizer was Ja'ayem. Zapaterietxe has claimed innocent unreadable, and I have no reason to doubt him. So Joostein's clearly not batting 1.000 here. Still, he does have a few interesting thoughts.
For starters, he believed that the Grafinn's list of rules and list of passengers (especially so quickly after introducing herself) was a bad sign. He believed that she was talking a lot without really saying much; he felt that lists of things were ways to avoid actually saying anything of substance, while seeming to be helpful. He was already suspicious from the get-go, but this pushed him over the edge. From then on he was trying to find guilt in everything the Grafinn did and said.
Second, he believed that Eliabulon was the mastermind who had figured out that both Crimson and Celandine were the detectives. He also claimed that the Grafinn's waffling over whether to vote for Reppik or Otto was a sign that Reppik was a sacrifice. Reppik's terrible defense, coupled with Eliabulon's waffling, made Joostein think that that the Grafinn couldn't find a good way out of voting for Reppik. He further believed that the Grafinn actually strengthened her position by doing so, because she seemed more believable for having voted for a known guilty.
Third, it bothered him greatly that Zapaterietxe (and Codine, to an extent) was defending Eliabulon. He seems to have believed that their immediate defense meant that they were all in cahoots with each other. Now, on this one thing I have a small amount of sympathy for Joostein's argument. Zapaterietxe did say a couple different reasons why he thought the Grafinn was innocent, and to me they seemed slightly... outlandish. I even pointed that out once or twice, but we ended up changing focus before they got answered. At the same time, I understand Zapaterietxe's point of view and general feelings on the matter. What Zapa was humorously (and at least once, explicitly) pointing out was that the Grafinn was acting like her normal, innocent self.
Since I've already interjected my own thoughts about Zapa's defense of Eliabulon, I may as well comment further on my own suspicions. I quickly became suspicious of the Grafinn, although I allowed Zapaterietxe to talk me out of that for a while. Then, on the third Dimthing day, I found my suspicions rising again -- whether that was the magic tongue of the Viking Charmer or whether it was good intuition remains to be seen. I then purposely bedded my suspicion, especially after we lynched Ja'ayem and found him to be the sympathizer. I've never fully cleared the Grafinn, and I must admit that if she turned out to be guilty I wouldn't be surprised.
Another point of surprise for me is the fact that she has not yet been targeted by the Possessed. Why not? If I were possessed and she were innocent, I would be most afraid of her because she is such an experienced bus passenger. She has, to quote my grandfather, "been up th' crick and over th' mountain." My only explanations at the moment are that either the Possessed are hoping we will grow restless and will lynch her, or else she is herself Possessed. The Possessed are as thick in this investigation as anyone else; they are well aware of how uneasy some of us feel about her, even in the face of trying to trust her. Or maybe uneasy is the wrong word. How about wondering in the backs of a few minds? Not quite trusting, not quite untrusting, just kind of unconsciously wondering and being slightly afraid. Kind of like the thing living in Amy Pond's unused bedroom.
Returning to Joostein's arguments, I believe we've covered the essence of what he was trying to articulate. There may be a few other things, previously, that I'm missing but I think we've got the important bits.
I know that I just a moment ago raised a few doubts about the Grafinn, but I still do not think that she is guilty. I've pointed out my own thoughts, nothing more. I did not, in my review of what Joostein had said, read the Grafinn's rebuttal -- although as I remember it, she was mainly planning to allow his guilty verdict to do that for her, and when he was innocent the matter was kind of dropped, and we ended up lynching Ja'ayem the next day. Since then, no one has really questioned the Grafinn's innocence. Perhaps by thinking this aloud someone else may spot something I've missed, or perhaps it will put help unfounded suspicions to bed. At any rate, I did not nominate the Grafinn because I believe Hophtrig and Otto are the two remaining Possessed, and I intend to see one of them off the bus this evening.
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
If you vote Otto off, you will be voting off an innocent. Otto and FBC are telling you straight and true. Like Meatloaf, Otto will swear up and down and on his mother's grave, unto the end of time about his innocence. Or on a stack of waffles.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gwai:
Codine blinks. "I'm don't think I understand the question. Are you asking who I'd lynch now, or in the future or? Certainly of all the reasons to be suspicious of clan Eliab, not giving us enough to go on wouldn't be a reason!"
Otto is asking, because he wants to understand if you are a friendly or a meanie in part, and also because he thinks he will wait to vote until he sees the lay of the land on this one, because he voted sooner than most the last time, and he was much more right than the majority. Otto has his ideas but waiting just now.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
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Posted
Otto, for the love of Pete, tell us your ideas now. Please please please please please.
Ios offers Otto a turquoise handkerchief to wipe his magenta tears.
As far as I'm concerned Hophtrig is up first. Then reevaluate everything for Dimthing tomorrow in light of what we discover Dimthing today.
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Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
If you vote Otto off, you will be voting off an innocent. Otto and FBC are telling you straight and true. Like Meatloaf, Otto will swear up and down and on his mother's grave, unto the end of time about his innocence. Or on a stack of waffles.
Two Out of Three Ain't Bad.
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
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Posted
Otto, can I eat the waffles after you're done swearing on them? Or are these Hophtrig's last meal, in which case I'll keep my greedy little waffle mitts strictly off.
[ 09. April 2014, 00:38: Message edited by: Autenrieth Road ]
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Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Otto thinks that we should be questioning the Grafinn and considering her. He is not sure between Codine and Hophtrig. This is a gamble, or a game of chance. As is said on Planet 11, when the wolves are chasing you, throw them a raisin cookie but don't stop to bake a cake.
Otto considers that the ant-waffle attitude has probably gotten into the pancakes. And left out the raisins. He thinks that he has to revert to his initial thoughts, right at the beginning of the game, because, as is also said on Planet 11, you shouldn't judge a schnook who is providing the covers, that Hophtrig has only incriminated himself insofart as he has voted oddly with the Grafinn one time. The Grafinn has been strangely silent for a long time, and probably thinks she is insulated from the waffle people. But she hasn't said much, and Otto doesn't get how it is that she has been thought of as good, when she mightn't be.
Otto thinks that the possibility of the Grafinn and Codine as naughty naughty is rather very. But he also sees the surge toward Hophtrig. He considers that as possible, and might trade a Codine for a Hophtrig, but he becomes very suspicious of the Grafinn. He decided to have a pint of rather dark ale mid-thought, got out a pump and drained himself, then chawed up some raisins. Then he said, if you can't lay eggs get out of the closet (another Planet 11 saying), and decided to blow up his friend and enema Hophtrig even though this might be seen as a deflection from the nomination of himself by a nice one who is saying rather naughty things just now. Otto went with his friend Ios. We're having waffles!
As for two out of three ain't bad, Otto isn't that fond of meatloaf, and neither is the FBC.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Alban
Shipmate
# 9047
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
Otto, for the love of Pete, tell us your ideas now. Please please please please please.
As far as I'm concerned Hophtrig is up first. Then reevaluate everything for Dimthing tomorrow in light of what we discover Dimthing today.
If Hophtrig were naughty, the friends would be looking seriously at Otto, the friends' theories being vindicated.
Can Hophtrig make a serious recommendation, please. Though there seems to be a determination to be rid of Hophtrig, Hophtrig advises you to begin serious discussions of the situation and ramifications should Hophtrig leave you and be proven innocent. Or should you prefer Otto, think what will happen were Otto proven good. And by think, Hophtrig does not mean for you to express sentiment or self flagellation, there'll be plenty of time for that later. Hophtrig means Hophtrig's friends to think on where Hophtrig's friends will look next. The easy targets will be nearly all gone.
Otto, or Hophtrig should Otto be thrown, will be the last easy survivor. Simple is a synonym for easy, remember, is it possible that Otto, Choey and Hophtrig, are patsies set up by truly diabolical fiends?
Hophtrig is not naughty, think on what you will do should you invite him to leave and the airlock prove Hophtrig's goodness.
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Whoever you are, wherever you go, Hophtrig is your friend!
Posts: 722 | From: Under a (long white) cloud | Registered: Feb 2005
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Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
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Posted
If Hophtrig turns out to be Innocent, I will shine the brightest light I can on Eliabulon and Codine. At least one of them will have to be Possessed.
If someone wants to nominate one of them now, I might be able to be convinced (you know me, the original waffle). I'm trying to figure out what it would take to move my vote. But John and Zapaterietxe would also have to be convinced this round, because I don't want to vote apart from them.
If we can lynch a Possessed either this round or the next, then I think the Innocents can win. That's why I'm not quite terrified that we might lynch Hophtrig this round and find out he's Innocent, because it might be a step we have to take in order to then be a step closer to finding the Possessed.
I'm trying to figure out if I can bring myself to believe in the essential falseness of a Possessed Eliabulon or Codine, without being forced into it by a certain knowledge of an Innocent Hophtrig.
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Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
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Alban
Shipmate
# 9047
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Posted
Hophtrig understands what Ios is saying, Hophtrig might just be expendable. But if Hophtrig (or Otto) is to be expended, start shining that light now, please. The light can be turned off if the being asked to leave proves naughty, but some lights take a while to warm up - now would be a good time to get the light up and running in preparation for the friends' need of it tonight and tomorrow. Turning it on tomorrow may be too late.
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Whoever you are, wherever you go, Hophtrig is your friend!
Posts: 722 | From: Under a (long white) cloud | Registered: Feb 2005
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Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
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Posted
Hophtrig, no one is expendable, and everyone is expendable. The order in which things have progressed means that right now it feels to me like I need to get certainty about you before being able to face the awful things it says about me if it turns out that I have so far been hoodwinked completely by Eliabulon and/or Codine. That's not because you're expendable; it's because it's hard for me to really consider all the possibilities when my poor deluded intuition has been convinced to think one particular thing. I fixated, for better or worse, on Hophtrig and Otto, or Hophtrig and Codine, and I can't shake that idea loose enough to find myself really believing a different vote would be better.
If I know for certain you are Innocent, at the cost, yes, of a mistaken lynching, then I will find a bunch of possibilities have been pruned and I will be forced to believe in the fact that at least one of Eliabulon and/or Codine is Possessed.
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Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
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Alban
Shipmate
# 9047
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Posted
What Hophtrig is saying is, one of Codine or Eliabulon is very likely naughty, as Hophtrig is not. Prepare yourself, Ios, prepare yourself, you have a nasty shock coming. What card game wuld you like to play?
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Whoever you are, wherever you go, Hophtrig is your friend!
Posts: 722 | From: Under a (long white) cloud | Registered: Feb 2005
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Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
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Posted
Trying to shine some light in other directions:
I think Zapaterietxe is naive in his reasons for trusting both me and Eliabulon: that we engage with his arguments and find holes, and that we answer his questions without evasion. I'm Innocent, so Zapaterietxe has reached a correct conclusion at least in my case. But his premises are wrong: Z underestimates the level of effort and deception the criminal members of Clan A.Road at least are willing to carry out.
If one judges that the more one speaks while trying to conceal Guilt, the more likely it is one will slip up, then perhaps that is evidence against Codine, who has spoken very little and thus has fewer chances to slip up than the verbose Eliabulon: at least if one judges Codine and Eliabulon to have equally Not Slipped Up, At Least Not In Obvious Ways.
If one does accept Z's criteria (which I don't, but perhaps they are often true anyway, even if not true about Clan A.Road), then Codine has been more evasive, I think, than Eliabulon.
I've described earlier how uneasy it makes me feel that I don't always agree with Eliabulon on this bus tour. I don't know the correct interpretation of that, though.
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Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
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Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
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Posted
That was cross-posted.
Hophtrig, how about we play hearts? Everybeing from different planets always has such interesting different variations to add.
Fictitious friend A. has just had a nasty nasty shock, right in the middle of enjoying the Anaheim sunshine so much and celebrating being on vacation starting in 12 hours. Perhaps a nasty shock on the bus tour will be a good diversion.
Hophtrig and Otto, perhaps we should lock ourselves in the HHH. Maybe we could persuade Z to move the single handle from the outside to the inside and that would keep us safe from horrible confusion. Z has been wrong in many things, but I think he's still very good with door handles.
Hophtrig, if you really believe we should be examining E and/or C, why don't you nominate one of them this round? (That's a real question, not a goading rhetorical question.)
And finally, I forgot to think about this before: what did we learn from finding Choey to be Innocent?
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Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
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Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
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Posted
The suspicious thing that Eliabulon has done, over and over and over, is reject all of my ideas that there might be extra layers of multiple bluff going on. Perhaps this is a big neon sign to Eliabulon's guilt: if Possessed, she herself has been doing it with many levels of multiple bluff, and would hardly want the Assembled Beings to start considering that anyone on board bus might possibly engage in multiple bluff.
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Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
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Alban
Shipmate
# 9047
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Posted
Watch that light, it's dangerous to shine it, even vaguely, on oneself. Zapaterietxe doesn't like that. Maybe that's a bit naive, too.
Hophtrig knows Ios is only exploring possibilities. Hophtrig thinks poker would be a bad idea, Hophtrig thinks bluffing might not be a strong point for either Hophtrig or Ios (or Otto, either, should he care to play)
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Whoever you are, wherever you go, Hophtrig is your friend!
Posts: 722 | From: Under a (long white) cloud | Registered: Feb 2005
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Alban
Shipmate
# 9047
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Posted
Hophtrig's crossposting too.
Hophtrig has little to use, Hophtrig knows full well Hophtrig will be accused of muddying the waters, but things couldn't look much bleaker than they do. Hophtrig said Hophtrig would leave it to cleverer people to try and expose the naughty, and Ios is cleverer than Hophtrig. Since Ios can't, Hophtrig is going to nominate the Graffin, Ekaterina Eliabulon . The worst that can happen is that which happened to Ja'ayem when he nominated Ios, and Hophtrig is ready.
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Whoever you are, wherever you go, Hophtrig is your friend!
Posts: 722 | From: Under a (long white) cloud | Registered: Feb 2005
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Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
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Posted
[Oh, look, another cross-post.]
Poker would be a very bad idea, indeed. In person, Ios, just like fictitious A., has a completely transparent face. However, A. did once win a round of Liar's Dice by using the fame of her transparent face by covering her mouth during a call, as if trying to cover up her telltale Smile When Trying To Bluff By Making A False Call. So all the others thought A. was bluffing in her call, and acted accordingly. Turns out A. was telling the truth in her call, and won big on that round easily, because of others not folding when they should have. The bluff was a double bluff, carried out by her hand covering her mouth.
Future criminal members of Clan A.Road are going to curse their relative Ios for burning all their potential strategies by revealing them.
[ 09. April 2014, 08:06: Message edited by: Autenrieth Road ]
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Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
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Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
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Posted
I don't think Ios is cleverer than Hophtrig. Ios is just practiced at imagining possible deceptions, once she puts her mind to it.
Ja'ayem as Second Partridge would explain one remaining mystery: why, if he was trying to decoy us away from Hophtrig, was he so very clumsy and obvious about it.
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Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
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Alban
Shipmate
# 9047
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Posted
Hearts it is, Ios. Anyone else want to play?
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Whoever you are, wherever you go, Hophtrig is your friend!
Posts: 722 | From: Under a (long white) cloud | Registered: Feb 2005
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
Otto: "I think we should question Eliabulon. So I vote for Hophtrig." Wait, what? That makes no sense, Ja-ayem -- I mean, Otto. The polls aren't open yet, for starters, and for another, if you suspect someone then nominate them and say why. Or at least that you don't know why but that you do.
So Ios builds an interesting case on the Grafinn. I shall consider it, because it makes sense to me.
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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Gwai
Shipmate
# 11076
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
quote:
Originally posted by Gwai:
Codine blinks. "I'm don't think I understand the question. Are you asking who I'd lynch now, or in the future or? Certainly of all the reasons to be suspicious of clan Eliab, not giving us enough to go on wouldn't be a reason!"
Otto is asking, because he wants to understand if you are a friendly or a meanie in part, and also because he thinks he will wait to vote until he sees the lay of the land on this one, because he voted sooner than most the last time, and he was much more right than the majority. Otto has his ideas but waiting just now.
Codine nodded. "Basically, I suspect that at at least one of you (Otto) and Hophtrig is Possessed, but I don't know which. Both have now been nominated. So, unless I become more such which is which in the time to come, I will vote to follow the known innocents."
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A master of men was the Goodly Fere,
A mate of the wind and sea.
If they think they ha’ slain our Goodly Fere
They are fools eternally.
Posts: 11914 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
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Gwai
Shipmate
# 11076
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Posted
Having heard the rest of the discussion, Codine felt he should add something. "Re myself, I'm not sure there is much to say. I tend to feel that members of my clan are never exceptionally talkative, so I suspect I am typical there. However, one never knows oneself properly. Am I incorrect?
Re Eliabulon, I could see her as guilty. She doesn't strike me as the most obvious suspect, but then from what I know of her clan, well she wouldn't, would she. My problem is that I know I tend to be biased in favor of people who give me more to work with, but I'm never sure how well I am accounting for that known bias."
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A master of men was the Goodly Fere,
A mate of the wind and sea.
If they think they ha’ slain our Goodly Fere
They are fools eternally.
Posts: 11914 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Otto considers Hophtrip and Grafinn, in that order.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Otto's fake life friend is quite busy just now, and it will be several hours to post again.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
Having re-read much of the transcript from this bus trip, I can say I feel much better about voting for the Grafinn than I did a little bit ago. I don't have anything really solid to go on, other than the bits I outlined previously. Of course, I led the lynching of Ja'ayem on less...
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
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Posted
Fictitious friend A. would like to report that hydrocortisone cream tastes terrible. How does she know? Why yes, you guessed it: A. has just brushed her teeth with hydrocortisone cream. She doesn't know whether to ![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif) or ![[Waterworks]](graemlins/bawling.gif) .
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Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
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Alban
Shipmate
# 9047
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Posted
I suspect a mistake has been made.
Think on this dilemma. There were two long trips to be taken:
One, a serious conference in Atlanta with professionals.
One, a ride half way to the planet Dimthing with strange creatures with even stranger accents, habits and thoughts.
There's were two people to take these trips:
One is sensible, erudite, thoughtful and wise.
One is quirky and does strange things like washing her hair with Pepto Bismol and brushing her teeth with hydrocortisone cream. Goodness knows what's next, wasabi guacamole or toilet cleaner bodywash?
Hophtrig suspects that the wrong one of you two got on the bus, Ios. That said, the friends on board are mighty grateful Ios did get on, things'd be even more challenging if we didn't have you.
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Whoever you are, wherever you go, Hophtrig is your friend!
Posts: 722 | From: Under a (long white) cloud | Registered: Feb 2005
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
So nominations:
Hophtrig (Alban) nominated by Ios.
Otto von Biggleswarpski (No Prophet) nominated by John the Less.
Grafinn Ekaterina Eliabulon (Eliab) nominated by Hophtrig.
TESS (This Eviction Should Stop).
Votes by Friday evening please.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Otto didn't actually vote yet, because votes were not open when he thought he would go for Hophtrig. So Otto has parked his brain next to his kidneys because the brain is actually a cooling radiator for the kidneys in his anatomy, and the kidneys always do the thinking on Planet 11 where he's from.
Otto notes that he had thought of Hophtrig, Codine and the Grafinn. Hophtrig nominated the Grafinn as Otto implied that Hophtrig and the Grafinn were on Otto's list. John the Less questioned this of Otto, and seems to have by his response prompted the nomination of the Grafinn by Hoppy, and also annoyed John enough (the disliker of waffles) to nominate Otto. John has seemed piqued with our touchy feely ways. Sorry John for not being as bright and discerning as you, though Otto notes that voting innocents off has been a result of haste....
Otto notes that Ios, whom he respects, has nominated Hophtrig. Otto sees this, and notes that he suspected Hophtrig very early in the trip. He also notes Hophtrig's feeling of vulnerability and thus nominating the Grafinn to split the vote that might come Hoppy's way.
Otto fears that he has a difficult choice. If he votes Hophtrig and this is wrong, then he would want to have voted Grafinn. Or switchy changey, vice versa.
Otto is curious about why John nominated him, except that he annoyed John. Otto has been careful to think but also to feel his way to a vote. Not wanting to evict a good one. Otto is happy he was right the last time in not voting for Choey. Even though he almost wanted to change his vote last time. But didn't, couldn't.
The logical choice for Otto would be to follow Ios' thinking, who, even though washing with non-ablutionary substances, and even though brushing teeth with nondentifricial substances, does not seem at all odd in real life on the bus.
On the other hand, could Ios be wrong and should Otto consider the Grafinn? Because he did think and feel that the Grafinn was somewhat giving the vibes - and that's what they were weren't they?
Otto notes that we have some fake time to dance, eat and chew, play music and he likes to consult with his bus friends and the feather boa constrictor a little more before really committing to a course of action. He also notes for Ios's fake friend that he recalls being told by his imaginary friend about brushing teeth with diaper cream. And finding dog kibble a reasonable treat, if not a little sawdusty.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Alban
Shipmate
# 9047
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Posted
Ios proposed Hophtrig should nominate the Graffin or Codine. Hophtrig looked at what Ios had said and suggested the Graffin, as Ios could not, having already nominated Hophtrig.
John has been suggesting a longstanding suspicion of both Otto and Hophtrig as the conspirators. Otto and Hophtrig both know that theory is wrong, so someone else is involved. Ios argued very well for the Graffin as the other, hence Hophtrig's nomination.
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Whoever you are, wherever you go, Hophtrig is your friend!
Posts: 722 | From: Under a (long white) cloud | Registered: Feb 2005
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