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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Doctor Who: Fall 2013
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Wood:
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
[QUOTE][qb]
2. The War Games (if we can exclude the last episode; Power of the Daleks if we have to leave it in.)
Whoa, whoa, whoa. The last episode of the War Games? The one that most people think is the best bit? REALLY?
It has too many pointless escapess, and a despairing final attempt to pretend that the quarks are a credible monster even by the standards of Doctor Who.
quote:
quote:
Most Overrated...
1. War Machines.
I have not seen it, granted.
I was a bit stuck, because it's merely mediocre; but the only other Hartnell's I've seen are rather good.
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3. Planet of the Spiders.
Steady on now, though. This isn't one of the greats, but it's a lot of fun.
I've been rather selective in the Third Doctor stories I've actually seen.
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4. Pyramids of Mars
Oh my. Really? Really? Pyramids of... I mean, really?
Three episodes of brilliantly done, if a bit shallow, scares, and then... oh dear.
The most painful bit is when we're asked to believe that a godlike genius imprisoning another godlike genius would use the one guard tells the truth and the other one lies problem.
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7. Time and the Rani.
You can't overrate something that's widely regarded as terrible though.' quote:
I don't think any of the Seventh Doctor stories are overrated. So this is just the worst. It also gets marked down for fouling up what was possibly the last chance to stop Doctor Who getting cancelled.
[QUOTE] [QUOTE]11. Vincent and the Doctor.
OH CONTROVERSY. You only named the remaining one out of my top three.
Where to start? It has a perfunctory shoehorned in monster, because Doctor Who scripts have to have a monster. What it has to say about art is utterly banal. It has no interest in Vincent van Gogh's actual life. I think Cameron hugging a hoodie has more sincere emotional content.
I don't like it very much.
Everytime I'm disposed to give it the benefit of the doubt I think of Love Actually and then I can't. Objectively speaking, Victory of the Daleks and The Power of Three are perhaps worse. But almost everyone hates them.
On your list I disagree with: Gunslingers (I like it), the Krotons (ok, the alien costumes are terrible and some of the acting isn't much better, but Troughton is having fun, and you can see the writer has potential). I think
I think Rings of Akhaten is ok. I actively like Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS. But then I nearly put Warriors Gate as the best Fourth Doctor story.
In fact, I might retrospectively do so:
4. Warriors Gate.
I first saw it when I was eight.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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doubtingthomas
Shipmate
# 14498
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
There are some damn good Hartnell stories.
Marco Polo!
Posts: 266 | From: A Small Island | Registered: Jan 2009
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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
Where to start? It has a perfunctory shoehorned in monster, because Doctor Who scripts have to have a monster. What it has to say about art is utterly banal. It has no interest in Vincent van Gogh's actual life. I think Cameron hugging a hoodie has more sincere emotional content.
I don't like it very much.
Everytime I'm disposed to give it the benefit of the doubt I think of Love Actually and then I can't.
...but it also presents a really accurate depiction of a man with suicidal depression. Or at least a man with suicidal depression whose illness was the exact analogue of the illness of a young man whose suicide I foiled, twice (long, painful story). Perhaps that's why I like it. Because it is in that respect utterly real.
quote:
4. Warriors Gate.
I first saw it when I was eight.
I was five I think. It's a hard sell but it's a cracking piece of telly.
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Narcissism.
Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001
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doubtingthomas
Shipmate
# 14498
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Wood:
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
quote:
Originally posted by Wood:
You'd have to exempt Eight (only two televised appearances)
Only one, and that's only if you think five minutes on the internet really counts as televised. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Eight minutes, dude. ACCURACY.
Seven - but weren't they amazing!
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'We are star-stuff. We are the Universe made manifest, trying to figure itself out'
Delenn (Babylon 5)
Posts: 266 | From: A Small Island | Registered: Jan 2009
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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by doubtingthomas:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
There are some damn good Hartnell stories.
Marco Polo!
But how can you know from audio alone?
No one knew that the Enemy of the World was as good as it was or how disappointing Web of Fear turned out to be.
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Narcissism.
Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Hedgehog is right, though, about the basic nature of the recording sessions. It's not just for Doctor Who, it's for all television of that period. It was far too expensive to stop and start filming and re-take, so the idea was to carry on through a scene as much as possible. They'd only stop for absolute disasters. And all the line flubs, bumping into 'solid' walls etc. that we see and now laugh at were not considered bad enough. That was an acceptable standard for television at the time.
I once saw an interview with the late Caroline John where she revealed that she was advised (I think by Jon Pertwee) that if she fluffed her lines she should blurt out "oh fuck!" or some such as this was obviously unbroadcastable and the scene would have to be re-shot.
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001
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doubtingthomas
Shipmate
# 14498
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Wood:
quote:
Originally posted by doubtingthomas:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
There are some damn good Hartnell stories.
Marco Polo!
But how can you know from audio alone?
No one knew that the Enemy of the World was as good as it was or how disappointing Web of Fear turned out to be.
True, you can never know for sure until you see people move, but at least still pictures survive.
There is a Loose Cannon reconstruction based on set photos, some in colour, the rest colourized accordingly. After that was made a near-complete whole set of B&W telesnaps (professional production photos) turned up, which were published as thumbnails in a DWM special last year, and form the basis of a new reconstruction, which I haven't seen yet. Apparently the audio is better in that as well.
[ 11. September 2014, 19:43: Message edited by: doubtingthomas ]
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'We are star-stuff. We are the Universe made manifest, trying to figure itself out'
Delenn (Babylon 5)
Posts: 266 | From: A Small Island | Registered: Jan 2009
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
It's late and I should be heading for bed, but I can't resist these sorts of lists. OK, here goes for my best and worst for each Doctor (I'm not going for overrated, as I've little idea of what other people think of these things):
1) An Unearthly Child (especially the pilot version)
2) The Mind Robber (my all time favourite adventure)
3) The Three Doctors (Pertwee back, and a glimpse of Hartnell)
4) Pyramids of Mars (now in its rightful list)
5) Mawdryn Undead (return of the Brigadeer, and introduction of Turlough)
6) The Two Doctors (despite its weaknesses, it's great to have Pertwee back)
7) The Curse of Fenric
8) The seven/eight minute teaser
9) Dalek (possibly the only good Dalek story in nuWho)
10) School Reunion (Sarah Jane - need I say more?)
11) The Doctor's Wife (even if Moffatt did undercut it later)
1) Planet of Giants
2) The Underwater Menace (but very few weak adventures here)
3) The Monster of Peladon (so much weak stuff here it's hard to pick only one)
4) The Keeper of Traken
5) Castrovalva
6) I need to leave this blank, as I really don't know Six's canon well enough to comment.
7) Time and the Rani
8) The Movie
9) Boom Town (possibly, but I don't think Eccleston had a weak episode)
10) The Unicorn and the Wasp
11) A Good Man Goes to War (spoilt for choice here)
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Wood:
quote:
Originally posted by doubtingthomas:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
There are some damn good Hartnell stories.
Marco Polo!
But how can you know from audio alone?
No one knew that the Enemy of the World was as good as it was or how disappointing Web of Fear turned out to be.
I've only seen the Loose Cannon reconstruction of Enemy of the World, and I already thought it was pretty good.
I don't think "audio alone" is a fair summation of what you've got when someone puts effort into a reconstruction.
They really do a rather good job of conveying as much as possible of what the visuals were like. Some of the descriptions of the research they do and the way they choose images for use are quite impressive.
PS There are other reconstructions around as well, but I found Loose Cannon better than anyone else's, partly because they use the original audio and add captions if necessary, rather than using audio that has had linking narration added.
[ 12. September 2014, 03:03: Message edited by: orfeo ]
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7
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Posted
Robert Armin: Mawdryn Undead. Ooh, a brave but interesting choice.
Peter Davison was My Doctor when I was a kid, but in the last few years, watching the stories, it's been... instructive. Some I remember as awesome, like The King's Demons and The Awakening, actually turned out to be massively disappointing. Some turned out to be flat out terrible (Earthshock, Warriors of the Deep, Resurrection of the Daleks). But some are still great. I was asked to write an essay about Resurrection of the Daleks a couple years ago for a book called Outside In.
Anyway, Kinda was my favourite story as a kid. It still is.
YOU CAN'T MEND PEOPLE!
Obviously I am late to the party here, but has anyone talked about the rumour about how Philip Morris, the discoverer of Web of Fear and Enemy of the World, is allegedly sitting on a bunch more lost episodes because he doesn't like Stephen Moffat?
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Narcissism.
Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001
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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7
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Posted
Loose Cannon. Is that the ones Ian Levine does?
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Narcissism.
Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
5) Castrovalva
Ah, now I would have picked "Enlightenment" with "Castrovalva" as a close second.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
It's late and I should be heading for bed, but I can't resist these sorts of lists. OK, here goes for my best and worst for each Doctor (I'm not going for overrated, as I've little idea of what other people think of these things):
1) An Unearthly Child (especially the pilot version)
2) The Mind Robber (my all time favourite adventure)
3) The Three Doctors (Pertwee back, and a glimpse of Hartnell)
4) Pyramids of Mars (now in its rightful list)
5) Mawdryn Undead (return of the Brigadeer, and introduction of Turlough)
6) The Two Doctors (despite its weaknesses, it's great to have Pertwee back)
7) The Curse of Fenric
8) The seven/eight minute teaser
9) Dalek (possibly the only good Dalek story in nuWho)
10) School Reunion (Sarah Jane - need I say more?)
11) The Doctor's Wife (even if Moffatt did undercut it later)
1) Planet of Giants
2) The Underwater Menace (but very few weak adventures here)
3) The Monster of Peladon (so much weak stuff here it's hard to pick only one)
4) The Keeper of Traken
5) Castrovalva
6) I need to leave this blank, as I really don't know Six's canon well enough to comment.
7) Time and the Rani
8) The Movie
9) Boom Town (possibly, but I don't think Eccleston had a weak episode)
10) The Unicorn and the Wasp
11) A Good Man Goes to War (spoilt for choice here)
Surely you meant Troughton not Pertwee?
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
Matt - you're right! Forgive me, that's what comes of posting when I should be in bed.
And I'm surprised at the negative comments about "Web of Fear". Recently I saw it, and then listened to it on CD, and thought it was excellent in both versions. Indeed, it could have gone in my Number 1 slot (but there is so much good Troughton), if not for the historic hold "Mind Robber" has over me. Not only do I remember it from watching as a child, but it was the first recording I bought of Who, and it did not disappoint. It strikes me there was an enormous amount of creativity in the first two Doctor's reigns, a willingness to experiment, which has been lost since then.
BTW, someone asked if I was serious when I said it had been all downhill since Troughton left. Yes, that was indeed hyperbole. There has been a lot of good stuff since then, and I loved all of Eccleston and a lot of Tennant. But there is something about the black and white era, which makes a lot of what came after seem a little pedestrian.
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Wood:
Robert Armin: Mawdryn Undead. Ooh, a brave but interesting choice.
......
Obviously I am late to the party here, but has anyone talked about the rumour about how Philip Morris, the discoverer of Web of Fear and Enemy of the World, is allegedly sitting on a bunch more lost episodes because he doesn't like Stephen Moffat?
Mawdryn is odd in many ways, not least the alien make up, but I like it. And the rumour I'd heard was that there were indeed a lot more missing episodes that had been uncovered, but that money was the sticking point.
Ariel, I debated between "Enlightenment" and "Castrovalva" - there's not a lot in it, is there?
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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The Rogue
Shipmate
# 2275
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Posted
I've neither seen nor heard Web of Fear but I have read the Target book and always thought I would like to see it.
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If everyone starts thinking outside the box does outside the box come back inside?
Posts: 2507 | From: Toton | Registered: Feb 2002
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The Great Gumby
Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989
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Posted
Not going to play this game, because it always ends up with people being irreconcilably locked in an argument over the merits of a particular story.
However, I'm enjoying Capaldi so far. The stories haven't really got going - 1 was more an introduction with a derivative storyline tacked on, 2 was another derivative story which was a pale shadow of Dalek, and 3, while fun and far better than the title suggested, was complete nonsense from start to finish. But the Doctor is getting very interesting, distinctly less Overgrown Kid After Too Many E-Numbers, and I thought his scornfully dismissive certainty about Robin hit the spot nicely.
Pacifism has always been a complicated subject for the Doctor, but especially so since the reboot. 9 was a hardened Time War survivor. 10 was a mopey emo kid, boo hoo I killed everyone. 11 was trying too hard to laugh in case he cried. Now (leaving aside the altered history for a moment) there's a nasty, even ruthless streak, but still also that strong pacifist streak. Or maybe it's more an anti-military streak.
It may be that he's scared of who he is and what he's done, soldiers may remind him of that, he may even feel some degree of contempt for them playing their games and never having to face the sort of decisions he took. They call themselves soldiers and think they're brave, but they don't take the really hard choices. To him, they're just playing games at that scale. All baseless speculation, obviously.
The question of whether he's a good man (or even a good Dalek - repeating that line may be the best thing about a weak episode) is central. It looks like he killed FaceOff Man, and he was incredibly callous towards the doomed soldier. But his actions in both cases can be presented either way. There's a definite theme of moral ambiguity, probably tied up with the Missy thing. (Incidentally, did anyone else notice that the soldier - Gretchen Alyson "Do something good and name it after me" Carlyle - appeared chez Missy with an apparently identical screen effect to when Blue was picked up by the Tardis? May or may not be significant.)
So I'm enjoying it. The plots have been solid but unspectacular, but the dynamic's changed a lot. It's an old idea that the Doctor's dangerous to be around and can be distinctly sarcastic, dismissive and generally unpleasant, but I think this is the first time this has been clearly shown in NuWho, not just stated or hinted at. This pleases me very much.
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The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman
A letter to my son about death
Posts: 5382 | From: Home for shot clergy spouses | Registered: Feb 2006
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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Great Gumby:
However, I'm enjoying Capaldi so far. The stories haven't really got going - 1 was more an introduction with a derivative storyline tacked on, 2 was another derivative story which was a pale shadow of Dalek, and 3, while fun and far better than the title suggested, was complete nonsense from start to finish.
They've cycled through Regeneration Story, Violent Dalek Story, Comedy Story and this week is Scary Story (I am not sure I can let my daughter see it, in fact*). They are covering the bases.
quote:
But the Doctor is getting very interesting, distinctly less Overgrown Kid After Too Many E-Numbers, and I thought his scornfully dismissive certainty about Robin hit the spot nicely.
He's sort of a mix between Hartnell Baker2 and early Baker1 in his awkwardness. It works.
quote:
Pacifism has always been a complicated subject for the Doctor, but especially so since the reboot. 9 was a hardened Time War survivor. 10 was a mopey emo kid, boo hoo I killed everyone. 11 was trying too hard to laugh in case he cried. Now (leaving aside the altered history for a moment) there's a nasty, even ruthless streak, but still also that strong pacifist streak. Or maybe it's more an anti-military streak.
I think your analysis is bang on. Anti-Military always.
I think the Doctor's Pacifism is best described as "Pacifism Except When It Isn't."
But then, the "Except When It Isn't" suffix is vitally important to understand pretty much every label put upon the show and its characters and themes.
quote:
So I'm enjoying it. The plots have been solid but unspectacular, but the dynamic's changed a lot. It's an old idea that the Doctor's dangerous to be around and can be distinctly sarcastic, dismissive and generally unpleasant, but I think this is the first time this has been clearly shown in NuWho, not just stated or hinted at. This pleases me very much.
I'm reserving judgement, but these are good points.
*Before the broadcast of The Web of Fear, Troughton apparently came on screen in character and advised kids that it would be scary and if it was too much to cope with, hold Mummy or Daddy's hand everso tightly. I thought this was wonderfully sweet.
[ 12. September 2014, 15:26: Message edited by: Wood ]
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Narcissism.
Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
Ariel, I debated between "Enlightenment" and "Castrovalva" - there's not a lot in it, is there?
No. A fansite that I saw some time ago suggested they were both among the all-time least favourite episodes of most fans: neither episode really involves lots of rushing about, scary monsters, and the Doctor taking an active, leading, heroic role. Both scripts are also said to have been influenced by Buddhist thought, resulting in two episodes that didn't really fit the classic Who canon and so don't normally appeal to the majority of fans. Interesting that you'd picked one of my two Davison favourites.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Great Gumby:
But the Doctor is getting very interesting, distinctly less Overgrown Kid After Too Many E-Numbers, and I thought his scornfully dismissive certainty about Robin hit the spot nicely.
I liked that too, but then I'd totally vote for John Hurt to come back and do more episodes. He was wonderfully sour and stole the show when he appeared with Tennant and Smith. Capaldi seemed to be picking up on that nicely and including it which I found quite appealing. I like the idea that the Doctor is a complex figure, not a straightforward, one-dimensional boyish sort.
(I'd love to see Capaldi's Doctor meet River Song. That would be an interesting meeting.)
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
Ariel, I debated between "Enlightenment" and "Castrovalva" - there's not a lot in it, is there?
No. A fansite that I saw some time ago suggested they were both among the all-time least favourite episodes of most fans: neither episode really involves lots of rushing about, scary monsters, and the Doctor taking an active, leading, heroic role. Both scripts are also said to have been influenced by Buddhist thought, resulting in two episodes that didn't really fit the classic Who canon and so don't normally appeal to the majority of fans. Interesting that you'd picked one of my two Davison favourites.
I would actually say that Enlightenment has a good reputation among the fans I know. It's one of my Top Three Davison stories, certainly.
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Narcissism.
Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Wood:
I would actually say that Enlightenment has a good reputation among the fans I know. It's one of my Top Three Davison stories, certainly.
Enlightenment turns up in the middle of the fan polls I've seen. Clearly there's a substantial body of people who love it, so there must be equally a substantial body of people who hate it. I imagine they're all the people who like Earthshock.
(For almost every Doctor Who story there is some section of Doctor Who fandom that hates it.
Exceptions: about four or five stories with Tom Baker and Liz Sladen in them, City of Death, and Caves of Androzani. Evil of the Daleks if it actually existed any more. The Empty Child / The Doctor Dances. And the eight minutes on the internet of Paul McGann.)
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
"The Empty Child" is the all-time most frightening episode. I've never been frightened by an episode of Doctor Who before but went to bed that night looking nervously at my bedroom door. Brilliant episode - it tapped into an unconscious fear for many viewers.
Even now someone only has to say in a high-pitched voice "Are you my mummy?" to bring some of that back.
The very first appearance of the stone angels in "Blink" was another classic. After that one aired you could see people looking sideways at stone statues in graveyards and giggling, a little nervously.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
"The Empty Child" is the all-time most frightening episode. I've never been frightened by an episode of Doctor Who before but went to bed that night looking nervously at my bedroom door. Brilliant episode - it tapped into an unconscious fear for many viewers.
Yes - and still my favorite, because it was haunting, so primal.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7
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Posted
The Empty Child really does reward repeat viewing, which is more than could be said for Blink, which I dislike more every time I see it.
I realise this is not a generally held opinion.
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Narcissism.
Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Wood:
Loose Cannon. Is that the ones Ian Levine does?
I don't believe so.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7
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Posted
Not mentioning Doctor Who to the kids today. Middle Child will not handle an episode featuring things under the bed. Not happening.
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Narcissism.
Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001
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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Wood:
[qb] Enlightenment turns up in the middle of the fan polls I've seen. Clearly there's a substantial body of people who love it, so there must be equally a substantial body of people who hate it. I imagine they're all the people who like Earthshock.
(For almost every Doctor Who story there is some section of Doctor Who fandom that hates it.
Exceptions: about four or five stories with Tom Baker and Liz Sladen in them, City of Death, and Caves of Androzani. Evil of the Daleks if it actually existed any more. The Empty Child / The Doctor Dances. And the eight minutes on the internet of Paul McGann.)
I think that's a fair analysis. If anyone wants to see my essay on Resurrection of the Daleks btw, i can post it here.
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Narcissism.
Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Wood:
If anyone wants to see my essay on Resurrection of the Daleks btw, i can post it here.
Just a link, if anyone wants one, thanks.
Cheers
Ariel
Heaven Host.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7
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Posted
It's not online anywhere. I just have it in text format, so I can mail it to people if they want.
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Narcissism.
Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001
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doubtingthomas
Shipmate
# 14498
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by Wood:
Loose Cannon. Is that the ones Ian Levine does?
I don't believe so.
Here is some info (their home page, http://recons.com does not appear to want to load right now)
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'We are star-stuff. We are the Universe made manifest, trying to figure itself out'
Delenn (Babylon 5)
Posts: 266 | From: A Small Island | Registered: Jan 2009
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tessaB
Shipmate
# 8533
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Posted
Genuinly creepy tonight. I will have to think more on it when the goosebumps have gone down a bit and I have overcome my urge to tuck my feet up on the sofa.
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tessaB
eating chocolate to the glory of God
Holiday cottage near Rye
Posts: 1068 | From: U.K. | Registered: Sep 2004
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
It was a bit creepy, but the bit that I did find genuinely unnerving was the Doctor smiling. Seriously, he has that cast of face that makes him look quite sinister in some lights. How far can you trust this one?
Otherwise, an episode short on plot, doing its best to evoke an atmosphere. Mostly successful, but not really a classic.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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The Rogue
Shipmate
# 2275
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Posted
Youngest Rogueling said she was scared; middle Rogueling said she wasn't but I reckon she was. There were some great twists and I enjoyed it a lot. Peter Capaldi was brilliant again.
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If everyone starts thinking outside the box does outside the box come back inside?
Posts: 2507 | From: Toton | Registered: Feb 2002
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Stumbling Pilgrim
Shipmate
# 7637
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Posted
Don't read this if you haven't seen it yet!
I started off ![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif) and ended up unexpectedly ![[Tear]](graemlins/tear.gif) Clara becoming the 'impossible girl' again, comforting that frightened little boy by telling him what he, 2,000-odd years on, had just told another frightened little boy - (Is that what's known as a stable time loop?) So much going on there - one of those where you just want to sit quietly and think for a while.
[ 13. September 2014, 19:55: Message edited by: Stumbling Pilgrim ]
Posts: 492 | From: England | Registered: Jun 2004
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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7
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Posted
I thought it was pretty good. I was right not to let my daughter watch it though.
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Narcissism.
Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
OMG that was brilliant. That is what I want to see - monsters under the bed, scared children, scared adults.
Loved it.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Bene Gesserit
Shipmate
# 14718
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Posted
That was the best episode for a very long time.
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Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, ora pro nobis peccatoribus
Posts: 405 | From: Flatlands of the East | Registered: Apr 2009
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
Stunning. Right now it's taking up all the space inside my head. There were so many aspects to it. Spooky, complex, romantic, touching. Above all, new. This new Doctor is amazing - monologuing, fretting, obsessive, inquisitive. He wields a powerful stick of chalk and will steal your coffee when you're not looking. He'll go to the end of the universe to face his fear, and pause for a quick game of "Where's Wally?" on the way. He's naive and clever. He'll give you a second chance at a first date, and hide in your bedroom in case you bring your boyfriend home.
This is quality stuff.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Justinian
Shipmate
# 5357
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Posted
Best Moffatt episode not counting specials* certainly since Season 5. Certainly comparable to his three utterly creepy S1-4 episodes (I consider The Girl In The Fireplace seriously overrated).
This is shaping up to be an excellent season - we haven't had this level of consistently good writing since The Pandorica Opens/The Big Bang.
* Qualifiers because both The Snowmen and the 50th Anniversary episode (and the Five(ish) Doctors and the Verity Lambert/William Hartnell special) were excellent. As was The Doctor's Wife.
Oh, and pitching in (and not being an authentic Whovian):
Best episodes I've seen:
1) An Unearthly Child
2) Tomb of the Cybermen (before the Cybermen wake up)
3) Spearhead from Space
4) Genesis of the Daleks
5)
6)
7) The Curse of Fenric (really anything with Ace)
8) The web short
9) The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances
10) Blink
11) The Pandorica Opens/The Big Bang (the only good season finale NuWho has)
Worst:
1) The Aztecs (I know there's worse out there)
2) Tomb of the Cybermen (after the Cybermen wake up)
3) The Sea Devils (I've not seen much of the Third Doctor - it's that, Spearhead, and The Three Doctors)
4)
5)
6)
7) Time and the Rani (clear loser, but anything with Mel)
8) The Movie
9) The Long Game (there are only two possibles - it's that or Boom Town)
10) Stolen Earth/Journey's End (Aaaaggghhhh!!!!)
11) A Good Man Goes to War (bad episode - but no other episode has so much wasted potential; it could have been awesome if it was about Rory and Amy and how distant the Doctor was in some ways)
I've too little info about 4,5, and 6 to make any calls. Suggestions as to what to watch and what to avoid?
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My real name consists of just four letters, but in billions of combinations.
Eudaimonaic Laughter - my blog.
Posts: 3926 | From: The Sea Coast of Bohemia | Registered: Dec 2003
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Justinian
Shipmate
# 5357
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Posted
Oh, and write in entry: Out of Continuity stories
Best: The Curse of Fatal Death
Worst: Daleks – Invasion Earth: 2150 A.D.
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My real name consists of just four letters, but in billions of combinations.
Eudaimonaic Laughter - my blog.
Posts: 3926 | From: The Sea Coast of Bohemia | Registered: Dec 2003
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Wow. That was fantastic. Classic Moffat to take something that everyone can relate to and build an episode on it.
But part of why it was so wonderful was how contained it was. At one stage I was reminded of Hitchcock's comment that you don't let the bomb go off - the tension before the bomb goes off is so much more effective.
And then it became downright meditative.
Also, I do love how this was all basically the Doctor's doing. He had to fill his spare time with some kind of investigation.
One of the best episodes of recent years.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
There's, IMHO, an absolutely fabulous (and lengthy!) review of the episode over at AV club.
I could quote an absolute barrow-load of lines from it, but I'll just pick this one:
quote:
The result is an episode that features all the thematic density and twisty storytelling that defines Moffat’s era, placed in service to the kind of warmth and humanity that more defined the work of his predecessor.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
I guess I'm the only one that thought it a bit light on plot and spun out?
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
I loved it. For the first time, I really felt that Capaldi was the Doctor (specifically, the moment when Clara's phone goes off; he grabs it saying "ignore it!" and flings it over his shoulder...for some reason, I saw that and thought "THAT's the Doctor").
And the last line was a tremendous gift for hardcore fans. Did not see it coming. But can't discuss it because it would be a spoiler!
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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
OK, I'm with Ariel. This was the best episode of this season so far, but that's not saying much. It seems to me [SPOILERS AHEAD] that the story told us there is nothing under the bed; this is merely a childhood fear of the Doctor's, brought on by Clara. In which case what was it in Rupert Pink's bed? A giant erection? And what was outside the air lock, or wrote on the blackboard (I like the blackboard itself tho) etc? No, looked clever but doesn't add up.
And sorry Justinian, but I couldn't stand the Pandoricon. It was silly. (IMNSVHO, of course.)
[ 14. September 2014, 16:38: Message edited by: Robert Armin ]
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
OK, I'm with Ariel. This was the best episode of this season so far, but that's not saying much. It seems to me [SPOILERS AHEAD] that the story told us there is nothing under the bed; this is merely a childhood fear of the Doctor's, brought on by Clara. In which case what was it in Rupert Pink's bed? A giant erection? And what was outside the air lock, or wrote on the blackboard (I like the blackboard itself tho) etc? No, looked clever but doesn't add up.
I haven't made my mind up on it to be honest. My wife found this episode incredibly frustrating though. It is the best so far of the season.
I'd probably argue that none of the new series have had more than a couple really great episodes each (although the nadir was sometime in New Series 3 or 4, and it's never been quite as bad since).
[ 14. September 2014, 17:04: Message edited by: Wood ]
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Narcissism.
Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
Well, that was rubbish. No monster. What's a Doctor Who story without a monster? I mean, Caves of Androzani - rubbish plot if you call it a plot, saved by the monster. Vincent and the Doctor, even the people who hate it have to admit the monster is brilliant. Kinda, lots of drawn out dull stuff, but at least there's a giant snake at the end.
Yes, I suppose from a certain point of view it was short on plot, which is a bad thing in the same way that Jane Austen is short on action sequences.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
Wood - new season 3 or 4? I presume you mean seasons 29 (with the incomparable Martha Jones - a real high spot) and 30 (which was very spotty).
Dafyd - really not fussed about monsters. After all, one of the all time greats was the very first episode, "An Unearthly Child", with nary a monster in sight.
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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