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Source: (consider it) Thread: Doctor Who: Fall 2013
Curiosity killed ...

Ship's Mug
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Robert Armin - nope, but I'll no doubt be watching the attendees on the Friday and enjoying their costumes. That was the joy of Comicon last weekend. (The Fox @ Excel is near enough to w*rk to be a w*rk pub)

You can buy a Dr Who wallet from the BBC shop, amongst other things. It has all the Doctors' faces printed on it. (There is a physical shop inside the Media Café at BBC Centre at Portland Place, which is opened when there's an audience there to be enticed.) The Tardis and a Dalek were there for ages too, and everyone seemed to go for the compulsory photograph in front of them, but I can't remember if they were still there when I was there on Monday.

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balaam

Making an ass of myself
# 4543

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quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
We won't lose the Doctor. It'll be re-fudged somehow. After all, the Master seems to have been blessed with a new regeneration cycle. One of the most popular ideas in fandom is that among Time Lords, twelve regenerations is an imposed limit rather than a natural one - so with the Time Lords gone ....

If there's no limit with the Time Lords gone how could River Snog give the Doctor ALL hers.

But it doesn't matter. Even in the classic days Who was full of plot holes, inconsistencies and contradictions. That is the nature of the Whoniverse.

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orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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Heck, it even took several years until all the writers were completely on board with the notion that he was an alien.

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Hedgehog

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# 14125

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quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
If there's no limit with the Time Lords gone how could River Snog give the Doctor ALL hers.

True. I don't like the unlimited concept, but even back in classic Who (the Trial season) it was expressly stated that the High Council of the Time Lords could bestow a new regeneration cycle on a Time Lord if they so chose. Perhaps that will be one of the reveals of the forthcoming anniversary story. Maybe the mysterious Hurt Doctor was actually the regeneration after Paul McGann and maybe he was given a new cycle of lives, so that the New Who Doctors are New 1, 2 & 3 of the new cycle of 13 (or more since there were still a few lives left in the old cycle unless the Tennant Doctor burned a few with his partial regeneration tricks).

[ 02. November 2013, 17:47: Message edited by: Hedgehog ]

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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'

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orfeo

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Still trawling through the Pertwee Years...

Day of the Daleks. Basically a very interesting 'consequences of time travel' story somewhat derailed by the producers' late decision that it needed to have Daleks in it.

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Dafyd
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quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Day of the Daleks. Basically a very interesting 'consequences of time travel' story somewhat derailed by the producers' late decision that it needed to have Daleks in it.

I'm not entirely sure about that. Terminator opens with some model shots to show just how awful the future is; but I don't think the Doctor Who budget would have stretched to that. The easiest way for Doctor Who to signal that the future is awful is daleks.

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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orfeo

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# 13878

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quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Day of the Daleks. Basically a very interesting 'consequences of time travel' story somewhat derailed by the producers' late decision that it needed to have Daleks in it.

I'm not entirely sure about that. Terminator opens with some model shots to show just how awful the future is; but I don't think the Doctor Who budget would have stretched to that. The easiest way for Doctor Who to signal that the future is awful is daleks.
Well, the original script, as I understand it, would have had notions of military dictatorship.

Having Daleks is all very well, but they don't actually DO anything. I think it was Philip Sandifer's blog that pointed out they only average 2.5 minutes per episode. They're simply not in it enough to be a key element of the plot. And all the evidence indicates that they're only in the story because they wanted to be able to advertise Daleks as a gimmick to get people tuning into the new season.

The most useful thing the Daleks do is be a handy source of time travel technology to steal.

As a story I think it's quite good. As a Dalek story it's pretty hopeless.

[ 09. November 2013, 11:00: Message edited by: orfeo ]

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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Dafyd
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quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
As a story I think it's quite good. As a Dalek story it's pretty hopeless.

I agree it's not really a dalek story, any more than The Big Bang is a dalek story. Yes, it has daleks in the title so to that extent it's guilty of misleading advertising. But I think daleks make a more effective future that must be averted at all costs than a generic military dictatorship would do.

It's much better to be a good story and a hopeless dalek story than the other way around.

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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balaam

Making an ass of myself
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There's a new advert for the anniversary special.

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tessaB
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Ok, booked two tickets to the local flea-pit for the 50th anniversary in 3D. One ticket for me and one for my hubsand (he needs to catch up on his sleep [Biased] )
Obviously I will also be recording it at home so that I can watch it again when I get back in case the cinema was noisy and I missed something. (I feel I am getting quite old now as I think Matt Smith, glorious as he is, speaks too fast.)
Now the only question is....to costume or not?

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eating chocolate to the glory of God
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Penny S
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I watched "The Indian Doctor" this week, and, would you believe it, they managed to squeeze, in a plot which operated in ignorance of the workings of the NHS, the NCB, and the planning process for road building, a 50th anniversary reference to Dr Who! (Well, given the period, it wasn't to the 50th, but the beginning.) It was the only reference to the world outside so it stuck out like a sore thumb. Not even the two lads indulging in a bit of sabotage led to a reference to Plaid Cymru.
(And they called the spoil heaps, slag heaps, and they were all beautifully controlled and grassed over.)

[ 10. November 2013, 12:05: Message edited by: Penny S ]

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Eigon
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tessaB - yes, I think Matt Smith speaks too fast, too. And of course you should wear costume to the cinema!
A few weeks ago, there was a Doctor Who day organised by BBC Radio Hereford and Worcester, and I went wearing a dark blue silk jumpsuit with a heavy duty belt, from which dangled my sonic screwdrivers - I said I was a Tardis engineer! It was very much aimed at children, with lots of colouring in type activities and so on, but I had great fun.

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Ronald Binge
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I'm saying nothing, but you really should watch this:

http://www.doctorwho.tv/whats-new/video/mini-episode-the-night-of-the-doctor

You may now squee.

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Eigon
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Definitely!
Stephen Moffat has done something awesome here!

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Dafyd
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Squeee.

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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Tubbs

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I hope so. [Yipee] (I can't be the only person who's occassionally sat there after a Doctor Who episode moaning that all the good bits were in the trailer [Mad] ).

Tubbs

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Pyx_e

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# 57

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quote:
Originally posted by Eigon:
Definitely!
Stephen Moffat has done something awesome here!

Indeed.

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Adeodatus
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quote:
Originally posted by Ronald Binge:
I'm saying nothing, but you really should watch this:

http://www.doctorwho.tv/whats-new/video/mini-episode-the-night-of-the-doctor

You may now squee.

What? What?? ... and ... I mean ... WHAT???

Oh, and ... squeeeeee!

[ 14. November 2013, 16:57: Message edited by: Adeodatus ]

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Ariel
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# 58

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Ooh. Oh. I'm speechless.

(ETA for the sake of any fans with bandwidth concerns, this runs for 7 minutes.)

More please!!

[ 14. November 2013, 17:22: Message edited by: Ariel ]

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Sparrow
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# 2458

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Fantastic!

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For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life,nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

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Sparrow
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Missed the edit window.

But ... if John Hurt comes between McGann and Eccleston, then surely that makes Capaldi no. 13, which means that Capaldi has to be the last Doctor?

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For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life,nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

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Ariel
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There is no last. For the Doctor is immortal and defieth Time itself and cometh back from the very dead many times.

Regeneration looks awfully painful these days, with all those bursts of blinding light and figures writhing. It used to be a much more discreet process.

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Kitten
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Wow

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Jay-Emm
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quote:
Originally posted by Sparrow:
Missed the edit window.

But ... if John Hurt comes between McGann and Eccleston, then surely that makes Capaldi no. 13, which means that Capaldi has to be the last Doctor?

"Could be", there's no doubt they coud find loopholes (and indeed have hinted at them, note in the short another 'rule' is edged towards being a mere convention).

Personally I'd hate for them to close and wrap it up completely. Though perhaps a rest after the 13th Dr would be appropriate.

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Dafyd
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quote:
Originally posted by Jay-Emm:
Though perhaps a rest after the 13th Dr would be appropriate.

They had rests after the 7th and 8th. That was quite enough to be getting along with.

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
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quote:
Originally posted by Jay-Emm:
quote:
Originally posted by Sparrow:
Missed the edit window.

But ... if John Hurt comes between McGann and Eccleston, then surely that makes Capaldi no. 13, which means that Capaldi has to be the last Doctor?

"Could be", there's no doubt they coud find loopholes (and indeed have hinted at them, note in the short another 'rule' is edged towards being a mere convention).

Personally I'd hate for them to close and wrap it up completely. Though perhaps a rest after the 13th Dr would be appropriate.

And how many times has the Master been killed off once and for all? How many sets of new regenerations has he mysteriously been able to con his way into getting? How much of the joy of Who is watching them find new ways to make a deus ex machina look plausible?

I about audibly squeed when I saw the credits. McGann would have been great if he'd only had a proper screenwriting team behind him. Yes, the episode was heavy on the "wise figure telling the Doctor who he is, complete with overacting," but somehow, it worked.

Also, great reference to a past, classic episode. Luv.

ETA, as I watch it again: "I'm a Doctor, but probably not the one you expected." So works on multiple levels.

[ 14. November 2013, 22:26: Message edited by: Ariston ]

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Hedgehog

Ship's Shortstop
# 14125

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quote:
Originally posted by Sparrow:
But ... if John Hurt comes between McGann and Eccleston, then surely that makes Capaldi no. 13, which means that Capaldi has to be the last Doctor?

Since, so far, I am batting 1.000, I will repeat what I said back on Nov. 2:

quote:
I don't like the unlimited concept, but even back in classic Who (the Trial season) it was expressly stated that the High Council of the Time Lords could bestow a new regeneration cycle on a Time Lord if they so chose. Perhaps that will be one of the reveals of the forthcoming anniversary story. Maybe the mysterious Hurt Doctor was actually the regeneration after Paul McGann and maybe he was given a new cycle of lives, so that the New Who Doctors are New 1, 2 & 3 of the new cycle of 13 (or more since there were still a few lives left in the old cycle unless the Tennant Doctor burned a few with his partial regeneration tricks).
Now that part of my speculation (okay, admittedly the most obvious part) seems true, I am feeling pretty good that the rest is true: the Doctor gets a new regeneration cycle so that the New Who Doctors are, in fact #1-3 (and soon 4) of the new regeneration cycle.

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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'

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Adeodatus
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The celebrations are kicking off - on BBC3 tonight, from 19.05 to 22.30, the first four of ten "Doctor Who: Greatest Monsters & Villains". Probably fairly predictable stuff, but I'll be watching just for fun.

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"What is broken, repair with gold."

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Curiosity killed ...

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There's a fairly major party happening in London next Saturday as part of this. I got the notification email and tried applying to get a mesge saying fully booked. So they went very very fast.

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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat

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sophs

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I have facial blindness and watched the trailer thinking "ooh, that looks like 9's clothes, I wonder if 9 will be in this, how exciting!" I carried on thinks until the end credits came up...

It has now been pointed jot to me that his name was in the opening credits.

I feel very foolish...

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balaam

Making an ass of myself
# 4543

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It really is bigger on the inside.

In other news: A Radio Times poll shows that David Tennant as the most popular Doctor, with Matt Smith second. Tennant? I found him good at first, but he became irritating before he left. Smith hasn't irritated me yet. Better to leave on a high note.

The poll shows that there are people who do not remember the classic series voting. My top five would be
  1. Troughton
  2. Tom Baker
  3. Smith
  4. Davison
  5. McCoy (acting better than scripts)
Radio Times list.

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Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
# 182

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quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
There's a fairly major party happening in London next Saturday as part of this. I got the notification email and tried applying to get a mesge saying fully booked. So they went very very fast.

If you mean the official celebration that's been sold out for ages. I've got tickets for the Sunday and am going with a friend, and am hoping it will be really good. So far I'm optimistic; that mini adventure was awesome and completely unexpected. Both of which are qualities I want to see in abundance over the next few days (and which were sadly lacking in the rather dull program on the Science of Doctor Who a few nights ago).

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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin

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Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
# 182

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quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
The poll shows that there are people who do not remember the classic series voting. My top five would be
  1. Troughton
  2. Tom Baker
  3. Smith
  4. Davison
  5. McCoy (acting better than scripts)
Radio Times list.
Largely in agreement with you balaam, but my list would be:
1) Hartnell
2) Troughton
3) Baker, T
4) Eccleston
5) Davison (and completely agree with you about McCoy)

[ 16. November 2013, 11:41: Message edited by: Robert Armin ]

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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin

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Barefoot Friar

Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100

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1. Tennant
2. Smith
3. Baker (So many good stories, too many to list)
4. Davidson (Caves of Androzzani is my favorite, but there are others)
5. McCoy (although his scripts weren't good, his acting was)

[ 16. November 2013, 11:52: Message edited by: Barefoot Friar ]

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orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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So I just watched the mini-episode...

...That was bloody brilliant, wasn't it?

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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Ariel
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# 58

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Why do people think that Tom Baker was good in the role? I'm serious about asking this. My memory of him shortly after the regeneration was that he came across as a clown and the series went quite silly. I stopped watching it because of him (and the jellybabies and that annoying scarf). It felt as if it had all dumbed down, as it did with Colin Baker. My top five wouldn't feature either of the Bakers at all.

1. Tennant (he is ex-RSC, after all, and it shows)
2. Davison
3. Hartnell
4. Troughton
5. Eccleston. I didn't particularly like him, but he was good at what he did.

ETA I want to put McGann in there. I wish they'd given him a regular slot.

I used to be a Pertwee fan, but looking back on it think he was one of those actors who always played himself, whatever role he was in.

[ 16. November 2013, 12:01: Message edited by: Ariel ]

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Ronald Binge
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My own top five Doctors would be:

1. Patrick Troughton. For me, the Original
2. Sylvester McCoy. Yes most of his first season was appalling but that wasn't due to his acting. The Curse of Fenric is probably the best serial in the Original Series.
3. David Tennant and 4. Matt Smith
with 5. Peter Davison.

I really would have loved to see more of Paul McGann though.

With the companions, I would go with

1. Sarah Jane Smith. Especially all of the second Tom Baker season.
2. Jamie McCrimmon. What a double act Troughton and Hines were. "Yes, it is a big one, Jamie".
3. Ace. Sophie Aldred and Sylvester McCoy worked fantastically well together.
4. I'll go a punt on Clara. Still want to see more of her but really loved the sparkyness of Oswin in Asylum of the Daleks.
5. River Song. Every straight male Doctor Who fan's ideal woman. At least when she's on.

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Curiosity killed ...

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No, there's an after show party, that only went up on the BBC tickets site on Friday morning. The e-mail went out at 11:12am. I tried applying at about 12:10pm, could get in to apply, but while I was completing the application form and sending it, those tickets went to "fully booked".

Chatting about the Excel event at work on Friday, saying it was Dr Who 50th anniversary next week, I'm not sure how close I'll get, because one of my colleagues is married to one of the actors on Midnight and he was going to check if she's going to be there signing autographs.

I wasn't that impressed by Tom Baker either, although I saw him at the Dr Who convention that must have been for the 20th anniversary. Someone I knew got in because he'd built his own full size Dalek - which was a bit unusual then. I think I managed to be part of the team manhandling it in (or opening all the doors).

I don't really remember William Hartnell or Patrick Troughton and John Pertwee is the first one I really remember.

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Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged
Spawn
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# 4867

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quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
ETA I want to put McGann in there. I wish they'd given him a regular slot.

McGann is my favourite Doctor - Fantastic radio series of the eighth Doctor and Lucie Miller.

2.Tom Baker
3. Ecclestone
4. Tenant
5. Davison.

Posts: 3447 | From: North Devon | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
The Rogue
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# 2275

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Let's decide this once and for all.

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Posts: 2507 | From: Toton | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
Dafyd
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# 5549

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quote:
Originally posted by balaam:

  1. Troughton
  2. Tom Baker
  3. Smith
  4. Davison
  5. McCoy (acting better than scripts)

Of McCoy's eleven scripts, I'd say six feature on any serious list of must see Doctor Who stories. Tom Baker, Tennant and Smith have more, but they have a lot more stories overall. McCoy's acting is excellent at some things, and a bit weak at others. He can't do shouty unless he's subverting it - there are a lot of Tennant scripts that McCoy just couldn't pull off. But then, you might say that reflects worse on the Tennant-era than on McCoy.

My favourites:
1. McCoy.
2. Troughton.
3. Smith.
4. Tennant.
5. Tom Baker.
(McGann would probably beat Tom Baker if he'd ever had a decent script of any length. Davison is burdened by a script editor who neither understands nor respects his character.)

Best companions:
1. Barbara.
2. Ace.
3. Leela.
4. Zoe.
5. Rory.

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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Jack o' the Green
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# 11091

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quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
So I just watched the mini-episode...

...That was bloody brilliant, wasn't it?

It certainly was, and perhaps more importantly, ensures that Paul McGann is and always will be a cannonical Dr. It's amazing how resistant some die-hard fans have been to this fact, in face of all the evidence. Usually because they don't like the reference to his being half human on his mother's side.
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Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
# 182

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It's also because of the line in Queer as Folk: "Paul McCann doesn't count," which was written by Russell T, of course.

My companion list would be:
1) Susan
2) Jamie
3) Sarah Jane
4) Martha
5) Turlough

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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin

Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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As previously mentioned, I've been watching the old series. And to be honest I found Jamie rather annoying a lot of the time. Plus not half as sexy as Ben...

Barbara was definitely excellent. I liked Vicki quite a bit as well I think... and Zoe was fun... and Liz Shaw. Poor woman, she was basically considered to much of an 'equal' - smart and scientific - and so they decided to ditch for someone they could treat as ditzy. Although a couple of seasons in, they've made Jo rather more competent.

In modern times, Alex Kingston as River Song absolutely lights up the screen. One does not need to be a straight man to appreciate her!

[ 17. November 2013, 04:10: Message edited by: orfeo ]

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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lilBuddha
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# 14333

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quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:

In modern times, Alex Kingston as River Song absolutely lights up the screen. One does not need to be a straight man to appreciate her!

No one doesn't. Though Billie Piper as Rose Tyler, Freema Agyeman as Martha Jones and Karen Gillan as Amy Pond are in the running for me as well.

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Hallellou, hallellou

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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Alex Kingston is on my, um, list.

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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

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Penny S
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# 14768

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quote:
Originally posted by Ronald Binge:
I'm saying nothing, but you really should watch this:

http://www.doctorwho.tv/whats-new/video/mini-episode-the-night-of-the-doctor

You may now squee.

Impressive - and the implication in the age of the final image about the duration of the Hurt Dr is clever. (Could they have chosen any other actor for that interpolation? With that name?)
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balaam

Making an ass of myself
# 4543

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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:

In modern times, Alex Kingston as River Song absolutely lights up the screen. One does not need to be a straight man to appreciate her!

No one doesn't. Though Billie Piper as Rose Tyler, Freema Agyeman as Martha Jones and Karen Gillan as Amy Pond are in the running for me as well.
A companion is part of a double act, so you can only judge a companion as to how they react to the Doctor they are with. I think River Song and #10 is better than River Song and #11.

My favourite Companion/Doctor relationships have to be Romana2/#4 and Ace/#7 (despite poor script quality.

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blog

Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Dafyd
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# 5549

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quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
My favourite Companion/Doctor relationships have to be Romana2/#4 and Ace/#7 (despite poor script quality.

Ace/McCoy have one or two poor scripts among the classics, and Romana / Baker have two classics among the duds.

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549

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quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Although a couple of seasons in, they've made Jo rather more competent.

Robert Holmes structured Jo's first story around Jo turning out to be more competent than she appears. Is there a more useful skill for a classic series companion to have than escapology?

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged



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