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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Purgatory: U.S. Presidential Election 2016
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Yup! And that, now, she's fighting for Hillary, so her girls will know that a woman can be president.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
ETA: And I don't think I've ever seen her like she was tonight--no first lady reserve.
[ 26. July 2016, 02:33: Message edited by: Golden Key ]
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
If Elizabeth Warren wants to drop all this Washington jazz, she'd make a damn good minister.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Hmmm. I could see that.
She and Bernie both gave good speeches. And both--especially Bernie--were very good about gradually bringing everyone together. And B evidently e-mailed his followers and told them not to boo tonight.
If the Dems can keep this basic feeling for the rest of the week, they'll be doing well.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
Michelle Obama just made the greatest speech at the DNC. The crowd went wild after she said that she lives in a house built by slaves and she can look out the window and see her daughters playing in the yard with their dog. ![[Tear]](graemlins/tear.gif)
Yes, I understand her speech this week at the DNC was much better than her speech last week at the RNC. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
Hee! I kept waiting for someone to say something like that. It's too bad the conventions don't have hosts like the Oscars. Billy Crystal or Jon Stewart would have had so much great material. Better yet, Chris Rock.
[ 26. July 2016, 04:59: Message edited by: Twilight ]
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Stephen Colbert does very apt and funny commentary on the conventions on his "Late Show" on CBS. You can see clips on the CBS site.
Oh, and Jon Stewart's showed up to rant, a time or two. Once was towards the end of last week, during the RNC.
[ 26. July 2016, 05:33: Message edited by: Golden Key ]
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096
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Posted
They are both brilliant, although the Late Show format is horrible. Why the hell do they have a bloody band, and why must the dude playing the piano make little comments all the time. And as for the quality of the guests - woeful.
Anyway, I came on to draw people's attention to this satirical piece on Trump's Toupee.
Dad's Army
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Human
Posts: 1571 | From: Romsey, Vic, AU | Registered: May 2014
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Michelle Obama is classy. Nobody in their right mind would use that word to describe the Donald.
It was an excellent, very effective, convention speech. And here is a thoughtful analysis of its significance.
But I think it's going to take more than that to mollify some of Bernie's supporters at the convention. It looks as though some of them reckon that Trump in the White House would aid their cause in 2020. And it may also be true that there is so much momentum behind the Bernie movement that not even Bernie will be able to stop it. There is talk of walk outs and further demonstrations.
It's going to be interesting to see how this factor gets addressed during the convention. It can't be ducked. It can't be minimised as an over-reaction by "losers". The Democrats now have an Angry Brigade at the convention and will need to address their concerns directly if their support in November is to be regained.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
They are both brilliant, although the Late Show format is horrible. Why the hell do they have a bloody band, and why must the dude playing the piano make little comments all the time. And as for the quality of the guests - woeful.
The band and comments are traditional with American late-night talk shows. Track down an episode of NBC's "Tonight Show", from the years when Johnny Carson hosted. Doc Severinsen led the band, and interacted with Johnny.
If, by "the quality of the guests" on the "Late Show", you mean "able to conduct an interesting conversation about more than their social life", that varies quite a bit. There are guests that aren't in show biz. And some that are have really interesting things to say. But most of our TV talks shows' guests have a movie, TV show, recording, or book coming out soon. Sometimes, they're on for only a few minutes, just to show a clip of the film and then leave.
If you want TV talk shows with less fluff, you might try Charlie Rose or Tavis Smiley.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Josephine
Orthodox Belle
# 3899
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
I think it's going to take more than that to mollify some of Bernie's supporters at the convention. It looks as though some of them reckon that Trump in the White House would aid their cause in 2020.
Yup. The (mostly) young white men who love Bernie are so angry at Clinton, DWS, and the rest of the party machinery that they can hardly think straight.
Clinton needs to reach out to them. She needs to acknowledge their anger and their fear, and find a way for *them* to save face, just like she did for her long-term friend DWS.
I'm afraid she's not going to. I don't think she sees them or understands them. I hope I'm wrong. Because I think there are enough of them, and they're passionate enough, that they can make a difference in November. And they're young and foolish enough that it's easy for them to believe that voting for Trump now is a viable long-term strategy for a better future.
She needs to show that she cares about their future. Not just the future of people who are already well connected and powerful, but for them, too.
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I've written a book! Catherine's Pascha: A celebration of Easter in the Orthodox Church. It's a lovely book for children. Take a look!
Posts: 10273 | From: Pacific Northwest, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
I spend my days conjuring up convolute scenarios, so my first thought is whether the nastier Bernie Bros are moles from someplace else. If not the GOP then Russians.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Josephine:
Because I think there are enough of them, and they're passionate enough, that they can make a difference in November. And they're young and foolish enough that it's easy for them to believe that voting for Trump now is a viable long-term strategy for a better future.
The first sentence is an example of how you might connect with Sanders supporters.
The second is how you make Sanders supporters feel that they are being condescended to by a party elite who think they know so much better than these young punks ever will.
When I went to my caucus meeting, I was concerned that there was going to be a stark divide between the white men supporting Sanders and the rest of the crowd supporting Clinton. This was not the case. It was a diverse crowd for both candidates. Are the people causing the most noise white men? I'm not there to know. Are Sanders' most passionate supporters mostly white men? Not at all.
I do not deny that some Sanders supporters need to be cool. I saw that someone had scrawled "Bernie!" on a Hilary sticker on a car on my way to work yesterday. Not cool.
I thought the smartest think Bernie did in his speech last night was point out how Clinton had worked with him to adopt some of his ideas into her platform. That was why I caucused for Bernie in the first place. I never thought he would win. I just wanted the party to know that if you run a candidate who isn't scared to bring up progressive ideas, people will get behind that candidate. Maybe that would inspire Clinton to be a bit bolder with her platform.
Did it get us a call for universal health care, which is what I really wanted? Unfortunately not. But hopefully the message is clear, that people will support ideas, not just "we are less scary than the Republicans." Maybe some of these people who are mad now will show up in the midterms, and run for office.
I have attended caucuses as both a Republican and a Democrat in my time. Republican caucuses are neat, tidy, and orderly. Democratic caucuses are chaotic, headache inducing, and frustrating. But that is because there is a lot of passion out there. Part of me thinks that maybe we should just accept last night as what happens when a bunch of Democrats get together in the same room.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
King Og wrote:
King Og wrote:
quote:
I do not deny that some Sanders supporters need to be cool. I saw that someone had scrawled "Bernie!" on a Hilary sticker on a car on my way to work yesterday. Not cool.
In fairness, petty vandalism of campaign advertising(usually signs) is carried out by miscreants across the political spectrum, all over the democratic world. Guaranteed Hillary supporters have done roughly the same thing to Bernie propaganda.
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I have the power...Lucifer is lord!
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Josephine:
Yup. The (mostly) young white men who love Bernie are so angry at Clinton, DWS, and the rest of the party machinery that they can hardly think straight.
Bernie's promise was a different kind of politics. He presented as an honest man of principles. The recent revelations of dirty tricks by DWS and the DCC cabal don't sit well with that at all, and frankly act to confirm and re-emphasize the accusations of cronyism against the Clintons.
Which means that what Hillary has to offer now is more or less "I have no honor and have scummy friends, but I'm not Donald Trump, and I've adopted some policies that you might like". I am reminded of the French elections 15 or so years ago when the left urged people to vote for the crook (Chirac) rather than the fascist (Le Pen).
[ 26. July 2016, 15:38: Message edited by: Leorning Cniht ]
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
Learning wrote:
quote:
I am reminded of the French elections 15 or so years ago when the left urged people to vote for the crook (Chirac) rather than the fascist (Le Pen).
Good reference. Though I think the desperate slogan "Vote for the crook; it's important" was actually from the Louisiana gubernatorial race involving Edwin Edwards and(current Trump booster) David Duke.
Was Chirac ever proven to be a literal crook? I know Edwards did at least one actual jail stint.
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I have the power...Lucifer is lord!
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
The Louisiana election slogan, I believe, was more poetic than that: "Vote for the Lizard, not the Wizard."
Folks from Louisiana that I have known tend to have a pretty good sense of humor about the history of corruption in the state's political system. There is at least one large highway bridge over the Mississippi upriver from New Orleans that people will point out as a well-known pet project that got several people sent to jail. Could any other state's corruption could give us the great American political novel? (Maybe Alaska could give them a run for their money.)
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
Double post to say, it looks like both were used.
(Edit to correct "cross post" with "double post." My edits are getting a little meta.)
[ 26. July 2016, 16:24: Message edited by: Og, King of Bashan ]
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
I believe both slogans were in use, at least unofficially.
A billboard
I can't find any specimen of the Reptile Vs. Alchemist phraseology, though I do recall hearing it cited.
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I have the power...Lucifer is lord!
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
This is getting meta-meta now. Anyway, cross-posted.
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I have the power...Lucifer is lord!
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
If Elizabeth Warren wants to drop all this Washington jazz, she'd make a damn good minister.
I also thought Corey Booker was doing a fine job bringing the preaching, towards the end of his speech.
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
Biblically friendly? Why then it must support Jesus' political agenda. Let's see, what was that again?
The spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has annointed me:
- to preach good news to the poor
- to proclaim release to the captives
- and recovery of sight to the blind
- to set at liberty those who are oppressed
- and to proclaim the year of Lord's favor
Which of these does the Republican platform do?
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
mt--
All of them, if you accept Trump as your personal and national savior.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
BTW, former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright is speaking tonight. Judging from her e-mail, via Hillary's mailing list, she's probably going to focus on international policy.
quote:
Donald Trump simply has no credibility or standing to represent American interests abroad. His small-minded, unstable temperament, his shocking incoherence regarding the norms and details of foreign policy, and his dangerous ideology are all completely disqualifying.
Trump barely understood the Brexit decision, which sent ripples of economic anxiety and nationalist sentiment across Europe. He believes more, not fewer, nations should acquire nuclear weapons. He praises authoritarians like Vladimir Putin. He thinks people like President Obama and Hillary are to blame for the rise of ISIS and the collapse of Libya. He considers NATO -- a bedrock alliance dating back to 1949 -- a security agreement we could casually withdraw from or renegotiate unilaterally. Just this weekend, he talked about leaving the World Trade Organization as well.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
mt--
All of them, if you accept Trump as your personal and national savior.
I think it comes with a tin of Turkish Delight as well...
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
mt--
All of them, if you accept Trump as your personal and national savior.
I think it comes with a tin of Turkish Delight as well...
Like Edmund, in Narnia, accepting the White Queen's Turkish Delight?
![[Help]](graemlins/help.gif)
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
mt--
All of them, if you accept Trump as your personal and national savior.
I think it comes with a tin of Turkish Delight as well...
Like Edmund, in Narnia, accepting the White Queen's Turkish Delight?
That's what I was going for...
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
BTW, former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright is speaking tonight. Judging from her e-mail, via Hillary's mailing list, she's probably going to focus on international policy.
quote:
Donald Trump simply has no credibility or standing to represent American interests abroad. His small-minded, unstable temperament, his shocking incoherence regarding the norms and details of foreign policy, and his dangerous ideology are all completely disqualifying.
Trump barely understood the Brexit decision, which sent ripples of economic anxiety and nationalist sentiment across Europe. He believes more, not fewer, nations should acquire nuclear weapons. He praises authoritarians like Vladimir Putin. He thinks people like President Obama and Hillary are to blame for the rise of ISIS and the collapse of Libya. He considers NATO -- a bedrock alliance dating back to 1949 -- a security agreement we could casually withdraw from or renegotiate unilaterally. Just this weekend, he talked about leaving the World Trade Organization as well.
Dear United States of America:
When it comes to diplomacy, you deserve nothing but the best.
Why settle for Donald Trump? Think about it.
In neighbourly love,
Canada.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Huia
Shipmate
# 3473
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Yup! And that, now, she's fighting for Hillary, so her girls will know that a woman can be president.
Helen Clark, Prime Minister of NZ from 1999-2008 was once asked by a small by if men could be Prime Minister too.
I heard part of Michelle Obama's speech and thought, "At least the Republicans won't be plagiarising this one."
[ 27. July 2016, 02:19: Message edited by: Huia ]
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Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.
Posts: 10382 | From: Te Wai Pounamu | Registered: Oct 2002
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Watching Bill Clinton giving a keynote speech about Hillary. He's in good form, focused on her, and holding himself back.
He started way back when they met in law school, continued with their story (focused on her), and told the many, many good things Hillary's done, including a lot of civil rights work.
Not my place to say; but this speech is so good that it might just make up for a lot of what he put her through.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
Brenda wrote:
quote:
In late October or early November I am going to review a book, over in the blog I post on. It will be a review of The Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood. If you have read it, you will know why I plan to review it then, and what I'm going to say.
I never found that a particularly convincing dystopia. Mostly because it posits that theocrats have taken over the USA by imposing a military dictatosrship at the federal level. Whereas, by contrast, American right-wingers have always been about radically decentralizing power, thus allowing local(and presumbaly more conservative) governments to fill the void left by the abdication of the federal government.
If, for example, Roe Vs. Wade were overturned, the likely result wouldn't be the banning of abortion by the federal government, but rather individual states being allowed to ban abortion free of SCOTUS intervention. I think the closest there has recently been to "moral" legislation passed by Washington was the DOMA, which wasn't on the books for long, and which was in fact opposed by some conservatives(albeit not in Congress) for the reasons outlined here.
A more plausible US dystopia would have seen the federal government abolish itself, and conservative states all descending into petty theocracies, unencumbered by the Bill Of Rights. But I think Atwood was probably unduly influenced by the Canadian and British political traditions, where people are more accustomed to laws being made by the national government.
Been a while, but I remember the change in government happened after some nuclear catastrophe, and that various states did indeed break off into seperate entities, as you describe. The handmaid didn't live in the USA, she was a resident of a state or a confederation of states that embraced theocracy and called itself the Republic of somethingorother incredibly jingoistic, or whatever. There were references to skirmishes at former state borders.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Huia:
I heard part of Michelle Obama's speech and thought, "At least the Republicans won't be plagiarising this one."
Maybe, though given Donald Trump's unwillingness to pay workers I wouldn't be surprised to hear Melania going on about waking up every morning in a house that was built by slaves. Might be received somewhat differently, though.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
Bernie's promise was a different kind of politics. He presented as an honest man of principles.
Who never got a damn thing done in 25 years in the Senate. Who was only taken seriously as a candidate because he decided to run as a Democrat. Who couldn't even say how he would accomplish one of his big talking points, breaking up big banks.
A politician who can't get anything done is different how?
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
I thought Bill Clinton made a very good speech last night. The "real v cartoon" point was made beautifully and, for me, just at the right time. I was thinking where is he going with this long, affectionate, summary of things Hillary had done to effect change.
And following Michelle Obama's most effective point, he took the high ground, never aimed low.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
it might just make up for a lot of what he put her through.
Which is really between her, him and God. It sickens me that Donald Trump (of all people) would continue to raise it. It's time we stopped.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
Donald's specialty is sickening. One of the reasons I yearn for November is that there will be a day, at last, when I no longer hear his name.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Donald's specialty is sickening. One of the reasons I yearn for November is that there will be a day, at last, when I no longer hear his name.
Unless he decides to sue after he loses, which seems to be his usual modus operandi. Anything to keep his name in the news.
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
It appears Trump has just publicaly encouraged Russia to hack email servers, is this legal ... .?
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
quote:
Been a while, but I remember the change in government happened after some nuclear catastrophe, and that various states did indeed break off into seperate entities, as you describe. The handmaid didn't live in the USA, she was a resident of a state or a confederation of states that embraced theocracy and called itself the Republic of somethingorother incredibly jingoistic, or whatever. There were references to skirmishes at former state borders.
Ah, okay. Couple of things...
As I recall, it wasn't a nuclear war, but an epidemic of some sort that caused the cataclysm that led to the military takeover. I think at the time the mass illness was generally interpreted as a reference to AIDS.
And I didn't recall that the Republic Of Gilead just one breakaway part of a fractured USA; I thought it was the whole USA gone theocratic. I could be wrong about that, though.
I still think it says something that Atwood needed to posit a major catastrophe followed by a military coup in order to get her dystopia up and running. In contrast to, say, Orwell, who only had to use the known outcome of World War(ascendant USA dominating the old British Empire; Russia dominating eastern Europe) to create a plausible geopolitical situation. (Though there are others things about 1984 that I do find quite implausible, such as how the leaders of the Party are self-consciously evil.)
Another thing that didn't really ring true about Gilead was that the theocrats were anti-Catholic, whereas in fact conservative Catholics had been in strong alliance with the US religious right for some time by the time that book was written. Kudos to Atwood for being aware of the history of sectarian animosity.
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
According to the plot summary at the novel's wiki page, it would seem that Gilead was in fact the whole of the USA. (Can't get the link to work)
[ 27. July 2016, 18:43: Message edited by: Stetson ]
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I have the power...Lucifer is lord!
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
According to the plot summary at the novel's wiki page, it would seem that Gilead was in fact the whole of the USA.
I seem to remember Gilead being at war with more than one neighbour. Quickly skimming the 'lecture' at the end it talks about 'Gileadic civil wars'. Maine is explicitly within Gilead.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
It appears Trump has just publicaly encouraged Russia to hack email servers, is this legal ... .?
This is now the lead headline on the BBC news website.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
It appears Trump has just publicaly encouraged Russia to hack email servers, is this legal ... .?
What I read was that he said Russia should "find the missing e-mails", which doesn't like a direct incitement to hacking. But I'm not sure what he means by "missing" or "find". If he means they've already been hacked, but haven't been seen yet, I guess he's not calling for a hack.
But if he means they're missing because they haven't been hacked, it would seem he is calling for a hack.
Either way, it's pretty reckless talk, and has not been broadly contradicted by his own VP candidate.
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Any bets on whether GOP will use it to tip him off the ticket leaving Pence as the presidential nominee ?
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
When discussing the recent hacking of the DNC e-mails, allegedly by the Russian government, Trump had this to say:
quote:
Why do I have to (ph) get involved with Putin? I have nothing to do with Putin. I've never spoken to him. I don't know anything about him other than he will respect me. He doesn't respect our president. And if it is Russia -- which it's probably not, nobody knows who it is -- but if it is Russia, it's really bad for a different reason, because it shows how little respect they have for our country, when they would hack into a major party and get everything. But it would be interesting to see -- I will tell you this -- Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 e-mails that are missing. I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press. Let's see if that happens. That'll be next.
With his usual lack of attention to detail Trump is conflating the actual hacking of the DNC's e-mail with the various nothingburger 'scandals' around Clinton's State Department e-mails. (As far as anyone knows, Clinton's controversial server was never hacked.)
What got my attention was this statement immediately prior:
quote:
Let me tell you, it's not even about Russia or China or whoever it is that's doing the hacking. It was about the things that were said in those e-mails. They were terrible things, talking about Jewish, talking about race, talking about atheist, trying to pin labels on people -- what was said was a disgrace, and it was Debbie Wasserman Schultz, and believe me, as sure as you're sitting there, Hillary Clinton knew about it. She knew everything.
Mr. Trump has rather famously claimed he has no time for political correctness and has publicly called all Mexicans rapists and all Muslims terrorists. Now he has the audacity to clutch his pearls and call for the fainting couch because someone was "trying to pin labels on people" in a private e-mail.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Why do I have to (ph) get involved with Putin? I have nothing to do with Putin. I've never spoken to him. I don't know anything about him other than he will respect me. He doesn't respect our president. And if it is Russia -- which it's probably not, nobody knows who it is -- but if it is Russia, it's really bad for a different reason, because it shows how little respect they have for our country, when they would hack into a major party and get everything. But it would be interesting to see -- I will tell you this -- Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 e-mails that are missing. I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press. Let's see if that happens. That'll be next.
quote:
Let me tell you, it's not even about Russia or China or whoever it is that's doing the hacking. It was about the things that were said in those e-mails. They were terrible things, talking about Jewish, talking about race, talking about atheist, trying to pin labels on people -- what was said was a disgrace, and it was Debbie Wasserman Schultz, and believe me, as sure as you're sitting there, Hillary Clinton knew about it. She knew everything.
Can anyone translate all that into comprehensible English please, or is there something wrong with my brain this evening?
Is Donald Trump always that incoherent?
[ 27. July 2016, 22:09: Message edited by: Enoch ]
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
Is Donald Trump always that incoherent?
The world may be about to find out.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
Any bets on whether GOP will use it to tip him off the ticket leaving Pence as the presidential nominee ?
I'll bet $100 on it NOT happening.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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