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Source: (consider it) Thread: Oops - your Trump presidency discussion thread
MaryLouise
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# 18697

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And after the eclipse, the ongoing apocalypse? Can't wait to hear Trump speak from Fort Myer on Monday night telling everyone how he intends to increase US military involvement in the unwinnable war in Afghanistan.

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“As regards plots I find real life no help at all. Real life seems to have no plots.”

-- Ivy Compton-Burnett

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Brenda Clough
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It is not usual for presidents to hold campaign-style rallies after the election. They do speeches at specific events (dedicating memorials, christening ships, accepting Nobel prizes, that kind of thing) which may elicit enthusiasm, but not usually events solely dedicated to their own adulation. However, the current incumbent's voracious need for affirmation calls for it.

From the POST, an analysis of how losing the support of the elites must drive him crazy. All the people he wants most to be accepted by are bailing out. And no, these are not the poor people who voted for him, how could you think that?

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
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"It is not usual..."

[Votive]

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Gramps49
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Dear Mr. Trump:

Your disbanding of the National Climate Change Advisory Board does not change the truth it has affirmed: human activity has significantly contributed to the warming of this planet.

You can choose to live in ignorance, but it is to the world's detriment.

I hope we can mitigate the damage you are doing to the earth in four years.

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Amanda B. Reckondwythe

Dressed for Church
# 5521

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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
It is not usual for presidents to hold campaign-style rallies after the election. They do speeches at specific events (dedicating memorials, christening ships, accepting Nobel prizes) . . . .

Well, there's at least one of those that we'll never have to worry about.

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"Stop your noisy songs; I do not want to listen to your praise bands." -- Amos 5:23, Good News Bible (modified)

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Bishops Finger
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O, I don't know - perhaps they'll introduce a special Nobel Prize for Sheer Bloody-Minded Incompetence.

The Great Orange Wen should be in with a chance.

[Roll Eyes]

IJ

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

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Stephen
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# 40

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Oh,dear there ought to be a law against it......there was I happily watching the eclipse coverage on CNN thinking how nice it was to see happy smiling people and an absence of Donald Duck when they went over to the White House and guess whom they showed.......Surely this is unconstitutional from CNN? I thought cruel and unusual punishment was forbidden........ [Biased]

[ 21. August 2017, 19:42: Message edited by: Stephen ]

--------------------
Best Wishes
Stephen

'Be still,then, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the nations and I will be exalted in the earth' Ps46 v10

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Brenda Clough
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A POST business columnist points out that Crooked Don has a Jewish daughter (converted), a Jewish son-in-law, and 3 Jewish grandchildren. And still he had no problem with people yelling "Jews will not replace us" and "Heil Trump."

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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dyfrig
Blue Scarfed Menace
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His latest "too bad" comment reminded me of Governor Ritchie of Florida in the West Wing - "Crime .... Boy. I don't know."

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"He was wrong in the long run, but then, who isn't?" - Tony Judt

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Crœsos
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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
A POST business columnist points out that Crooked Don has a Jewish daughter (converted), a Jewish son-in-law, and 3 Jewish grandchildren. And still he had no problem with people yelling "Jews will not replace us" and "Heil Trump."

I'm sure if Trump thinks about this at all (which is uncertain), he thinks it only applies to Jewy Jews with hooked noses and nefarious secret plans, not the nice respectable Jews in his family (and, to a lesser extent, in his administration).

On a similar note, check out An Open Letter to Our Fellow Jews, which specifically calls out Steven Mnuchin, Gary Cohn, Michael D. Cohen, Sheldon Adelson, Jared Kushner, and Ivanka Trump.

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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Bishops Finger
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@Stephen - BBC News reports that The Lord Of The Western World looked directly at the Sun. Not a sensible thing to do.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-41003929/solar-eclipse-2017-donald-trump-looks-directly-at-the-sun

IJ

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

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Rocinante
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quote:
Originally posted by dyfrig:
His latest "too bad" comment reminded me of Governor Ritchie of Florida in the West Wing - "Crime .... Boy. I don't know."

I knew he reminded me of someone. They are not dissimilar in appearance, but in comparison to Trump, Ritchie was an intellectual titan and an orator of Periclean fluency.

Of course in a real election Bartlet would have been destroyed by Breitbart and Faux News, and Ritchie would have won 49 states. "Crooked Jed - he lied about MS, What else is he covering up?"

[ 21. August 2017, 20:24: Message edited by: Rocinante ]

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Stephen
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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
@Stephen - BBC News reports that The Lord Of The Western World looked directly at the Sun. Not a sensible thing to do.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-41003929/solar-eclipse-2017-donald-trump-looks-directly-at-the-sun

IJ

I must admit that when he came in I decided it was time for dinner. I really had no idea why I decided that

Silly thing to do but also sets a bad example. In fairness to CNN they did bring out the importance of eclipse glasses

--------------------
Best Wishes
Stephen

'Be still,then, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the nations and I will be exalted in the earth' Ps46 v10

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Brenda Clough
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A good analysis of why this last Trumpian outrage was unforgivable, when groping pussy/dissing war heroes/maligning immigrants, etc. etc. etc. could be overlooked.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Bishops Finger
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The LOTWW really doesn't set much of a good example anywhere, anytime...

Maybe when you saw him on TV, it reminded you subconsciously of the need for food (oranges, pumpkins, that sort of thing).

IJ

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

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Bishops Finger
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Cross-posted with Brenda, but thanks for that interesting and thought-provoking link.

I'm reminded of one of Lord Dunsany's short stories, where, after an act of supreme blasphemy, the Gods declare that not only will the blaspheming King be destroyed, but that he will never have existed at all.

IJ

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
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How's the campaign planning for the election next year going?

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Human

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no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
@Stephen - BBC News reports that The Lord Of The Western World looked directly at the Sun. Not a sensible thing to do.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-41003929/solar-eclipse-2017-donald-trump-looks-directly-at-the-sun

IJ

He's already blind. Amazing.
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Golden Key
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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
It is not usual for presidents to hold campaign-style rallies after the election. They do speeches at specific events (dedicating memorials, christening ships, accepting Nobel prizes, that kind of thing) which may elicit enthusiasm, but not usually events solely dedicated to their own adulation. However, the current incumbent's voracious need for affirmation calls for it.

IIRC, he started working on his 2020 campaign soon after his inauguration--even filed some paperwork, I think.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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Golden Key
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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
@Stephen - BBC News reports that The Lord Of The Western World looked directly at the Sun. Not a sensible thing to do.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-41003929/solar-eclipse-2017-donald-trump-looks-directly-at-the-sun

Presidency aside, T really, really needs a caregiver. The Secret Service should've tackled T to the ground, for his own good.

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
How's the campaign planning for the election next year going?

Kind of early to tell, but by at least one measure, the Dems are off to a good start.
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mr cheesy
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Trump really has said that Americans are being sent to die in Afghanistan to "honor those American soldiers who had died there since 2001".

It's hard to imagine more of a cartoon version of the myth of redemptive violence: a bunch of brave people have died so we need to send a bunch more to risk their lives and die to honour their memory.

Where is this going to end? It feels like the Trump WH is saying "the British failed, the Russians failed, the Obama Surge failed - but by golly, I'm a winner so I'm going keep repeating the same mistakes until it works for me."

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arse

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Alex Cockell

Ship’s penguin
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Time to dig out the copies of Team America World Police again...

1, 2, 3, 4, "AMERICA, FUCK YEAH..." [Disappointed] [Disappointed]

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Ian Climacus

Liturgical Slattern
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And as Baroness Manningham-Buller, former MI5 head, has said, our wars in Afghanistan, like those in Iraq, have increased the terrorist threat. Yet our leaders keep telling us we need to go in to keep us safe [no, or little, mention of the Afghans or Iraqis...]

Though I think Clinton would've done the same thing. Not that that makes it right.

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Golden Key
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mr cheesy--

quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
Where is this going to end? It feels like the Trump WH is saying "the British failed, the Russians failed, the Obama Surge failed - but by golly, I'm a winner so I'm going keep repeating the same mistakes until it works for me."

Um, isn't that the same thing that all the outside parties (US, UK, etc.) have been thinking, saying, and acting on for more than 100 yrs.?

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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mr cheesy
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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Um, isn't that the same thing that all the outside parties (US, UK, etc.) have been thinking, saying, and acting on for more than 100 yrs.?

I'm not sure anyone has been as stark as to say that they're risking soldiers lives because they need to honor the dead.

But yes, the pattern is that armies go into Afghanistan and get worn down and leave. Only the really stupid think it is going to be different this time.

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arse

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Penny S
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What chilled me in the depth of the night was his remark about altering the rules of engagement, because until now they have been preventing the troops from doing things they needed to. I had the impression that these things might include things that most of us would regard as wrong. Perhaps things that the troops have already done and been held to account for in the past. But I wasn't very awake at the time.
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mr cheesy
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quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
Perhaps things that the troops have already done and been held to account for in the past. But I wasn't very awake at the time.

I could be wrong, but I thought he was saying something about Pakistan. But then he also said something about Indian army involvement, possibly indicating a profound lack of knowledge about the region.

I guess he just thought he was laying down a "you are either with us or against us" line in the sand. Not sure how helpful that is really.

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arse

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Penny S
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I've seen someone else refer to it as getting rid of the "norms that hamper" the generals. And I now recall associating it with, not only war crimes, but also small scale nuclear weapons.

I once taught a boy, briefly, while his parents, doctors, were in the local hospital for extending their training, and had an invitation to visit them at home in Pakistan. I often wonder what has happened to Sohrab.

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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
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quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
How's the campaign planning for the election next year going?

Kind of early to tell, but by at least one measure, the Dems are off to a good start.
Positive stuff, thanks Ruth.

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Human

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Bishops Finger
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The Great Leader is certainly fulfilling his promise to create jobs - just think of all the extra military personnel he'll need to fight his wars in Afghanistan, North Korea, Venezuela, the Mexican border (cuz those Bad Hombres will try to break down his Beautifullest Wall In The World) etc. etc. Then there's the actual manufacture of the bombs, tanks, missiles etc. (or are they already prepared, and in stock?).

[Paranoid]

Can nothing or nobody stop this Rake's Progress?

IJ

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

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quetzalcoatl
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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
Trump really has said that Americans are being sent to die in Afghanistan to "honor those American soldiers who had died there since 2001".

It's hard to imagine more of a cartoon version of the myth of redemptive violence: a bunch of brave people have died so we need to send a bunch more to risk their lives and die to honour their memory.

Where is this going to end? It feels like the Trump WH is saying "the British failed, the Russians failed, the Obama Surge failed - but by golly, I'm a winner so I'm going keep repeating the same mistakes until it works for me."

It's the sunk cost fallacy, isn't it? Many gamblers use it - I've already lost ten grand, so I'd better keep going, to justify that loss. It's awesome to see it used as part of international politics.

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the main fear that flat-earthers face is sphere itself.

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Bishops Finger
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# 5430

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Quite so - but this is going to cost more human lives, as well as more $$$. Still, The Son Of Desolation is out to kill terrorists (who are brown people, so don't really matter), and that's what will Make America Great Again.

Or not.

IJ

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

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no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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The Russian war in Afghanistan was a major factor in the fall of the USSR. American funding and training of what is now Al Qaeda and Taliban (Mujahadeen) helped a lot.

If I was Russia, China maybe Iran I'd spend my money sending guns and missiles etc to some of the nice people of the people America now fights. A main feature to followup the warmup act of proxy war in Yemen. This war will outlive all of us and bleed the USA worse than Vietnam. And trumpy will use it to keep power and influence your elections. Torture, atrocities, praying evangelical advisors, more domestic disruption. What a time to be alive!

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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mr cheesy--

quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
But yes, the pattern is that armies go into Afghanistan and get worn down and leave. Only the really stupid think it is going to be different this time.

But that usually seems to be part of the package, AIUI--like Russia going back to Afghanistan, or the US gov't not learning from coups they instigated that didn't work out well.

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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And here's T's Arizona trip today:

"Trump blames media for condemnation of comments on Virginia" (AP, via Yahoo).

Speakers included Ben Carson, a niece of Dr. King, and Franklin Graham.

I think Franklin Graham needs to get a new hobby. Maybe we can chip in and get him a hula hoop? Maybe even some for T and the White House staff?
[Cool]

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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Ian Climacus

Liturgical Slattern
# 944

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The Beeb is reporting, among other things:

Mr Trump concluded: "If we have to close down government, we are building that wall."

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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Anyone else a little worried that T is pushing for war, just to get the country united behind him, praising his name?
[Paranoid]

If he wants us all to chant his name, he might want to review what was changed at LBJ: "LBJ! LBJ! How many boys did you kill today?"

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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Pangolin Guerre
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# 18686

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Re: intervention in Afghanistan, I once said in a seminar (and did aver that I might be pilfering the line), "They may lose, but we will never beat them."
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Ian Climacus

Liturgical Slattern
# 944

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WaPo article on Democrats' internal debates

I googled Beltway voices but am none the wiser as to their makeup...does it mean those in Washington?

And would you agree with:

quote:
Already Beltway voices are fretting about division, about Democrats shooting at one another, about the need for unity in order to win in 2018. But a fierce debate is unavoidable.
?
Posts: 7578 | From: Albury, Australia | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

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Ian--

The Beltway is a road that runs around DC. So the federal gov't is within it. And people talk about "inside-the-Beltway syndrome", meaning the gov't folks don't see/think beyond their own little world. That makes a big difference in what they do.

"Beltway voices" presumably means they're just talking to each other.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

Posts: 18169 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ian Climacus

Liturgical Slattern
# 944

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Thanks Golden Key!
Posts: 7578 | From: Albury, Australia | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
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# 1468

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mr cheesy--

quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
I could be wrong, but I thought he was saying something about Pakistan.

He did. There are ongoing frustrations with Pakistan. AIUI, they've permitted/enabled various terrorist things. And that's where bin Laden was hiding out, in a walled, residential compound. Evidently, some folks thought that a) Pakistan must have known he was there; and b) they should've told the US immediately. (Though why that was assumed when he was in a common type of closed compound, was very ill, and probably stayed inside the compound...)

IIRC, US forces went after him without Pakistan's permission, because of that. And I think maybe the US gave Pakistan various kinds of support, and felt betrayed by all the above.

[ 23. August 2017, 10:52: Message edited by: Golden Key ]

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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Great. Trump alienates Pakistan, it goes Islamist and we have an absolutely guaranteed nuclear-armed Islamist state.

Thanks Don. See you in the Promised Land.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

Posts: 24050 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
# 182

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Trump on sending more troops into Afghanistan. He was reported as saying something like (forgive me, I can't remember the exact words), "My initial instinct was to get our troops out. And usually I follow my instincts. But I'm in the White House now, and things look different from here."

Now, I'm no fan of Trump, and wish he was saying this about a different issue. However, that final sentence sounded sensible to me, maybe even a sign that he is beginning to grow up. Or am I hopelessly naïve?

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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin

Posts: 8905 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
John Holding

Coffee and Cognac
# 158

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Robert -- he may have believed it at the moment he said it, but -- based on his record -- you'd be extremely foolish to count on him following through.

We in Canada (and Mexico) are currently watching him torpedo trade talks, where he clearly has not been learning anything since becoming president. On the other hand, we're by and large now reasonably sure that he won't be able to do anything at all, so NAFTA is probably safe. Just as well, since its estimated that upwards of 20 million US jobs would disappear if he were to succeed in pulling. That would work well, I'm thinking, with his base.

John

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chris stiles
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# 12641

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quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:

Now, I'm no fan of Trump, and wish he was saying this about a different issue. However, that final sentence sounded sensible to me, maybe even a sign that he is beginning to grow up. Or am I hopelessly naïve?

I suspect you are putting too much weight on this statement; it sounds like you are assuming from this that he is capable of a rational course of action after being presented with the facts, this is not necessarily the case.

Apart from which, staying in Afghanistan seems to be a rather bad idea anyway.

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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Grrrrr.

"Citing Trump, evangelical agency that resettles refugees to lay off 140 staffers, close five locations" (Wash. Post).

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

Posts: 18169 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096

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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Great. Trump alienates Pakistan, it goes Islamist and we have an absolutely guaranteed nuclear-armed Islamist state.

Thanks Don. See you in the Promised Land.

I reckon, given its history, the army will act like the Egyptian Army did if it looks like the islamists are taking over. Islamists are bad for business, and the Pakistani elite love a bit of business.

Plus, my impression of American diplomacy at the moment is that Trump says something stupid and the entire State and Defence Departments start buying their foreign counterparts drinks. The relationship is multi-layered, thank God.

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Human

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Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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This from the Guardian makes for depressing reading, many interviews with Trump supporters. So many of them insist he's working hard -- I guess golf counts ans work.

To cleanse the palate the ever acerbic Charles Pierce denounces these same people.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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