Posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Well, judging from the responses here, evil will triumph because good men (and women) will do nothing.

Terrific.

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Oh please. My being sensible about what goes into a counter-protest against well-armed fit young men is a problem for you?

The last time neo-Nazis rallied in Los Angeles, counter-protesters beat the shit out of a few of them and chased the rest away. I don't think my assistance was required.

quote:

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Originally posted by Doc Tor:
I would have gone to Charlottesville, in exactly the same way I've gone into the centre of my local town, to outnumber and shout down the fascists, disrupting their pathetic little marches and moving them on.

And if they'd once turned around and come at us, I'd have folded my glasses into my pocket and I'd have stood shoulder to shoulder with my comrades - black, white, Asian, young, old, anarchists, communists, socialists, any one of goodwill.

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Posted                       

quote:

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Originally posted by Doc Tor:

quote:

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Originally posted by Martin60:

quote:

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Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Well, judging from the responses here, evil will triumph because good men (and women) will do nothing.

Terrific.

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? As they did at Selma. Without attacking evil with violence. Were they wrong? Despite winning? Without killing anyone? Did they not show a better way?

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And if white Christians had joined en masse with our black brothers and sisters, would Selma have even been necessary?

No. No it wouldn't.

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Posted                         

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Originally posted by RuthW:
A militia group showed up and interposed themselves between these two groups; the militia were armed to the teeth (...) And of course there were the cops, also armed, though not nearly as well as the neo-Nazis, who had better riot gear. It's a fucking miracle no shots were fired.

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Posted                         

quote:

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Originally posted by Eutychus:
Had they achieved it, I'd have had to do more hard thinking about what I would do; previous discussions on the Ship would have informed my decision.

It's not directly comparable to my mind.

For one, the FN is an elected party, not an unelected rabble. For another, it expresses its nastiness in a much subtler manner and is a whole lot savvier about wrong-footing hotheaded opposition.

Either way, I wouldn't be taking up bottles, stones, or fists.

As it is they seem to be imploding nicely of their own accord. For now.

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Posted                      

quote:

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In the midst of the two groups, another force arrived. Dressed in full camouflage and outfitted with semiautomatic rifles and pistols, three dozen members of a self-styled militia walked onto the sidewalk. Christian Yingling, who described himself as the commander of the unit, said they were there to keep the peace. He said members of the Charlottesville Police Department welcomed their presence. Although Virginia is an open-carry state, the presence of the militia was unnerving to law enforcement officials on the scene.

“The militia showed up with long rifles, and we were concerned to have that in the mix,” said Virginia Secretary of Public Safety and Homeland Security Brian Moran, who worried that the rallygoers and counterprotesters would mistake the militia for National Guard forces. “They seemed like they weren’t there to cause trouble, but it was a concern to have rifles in that kind of environment.”

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Posted                         

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Originally posted by Doublethink.:
Surely, if there's one thing we learn from Trump - it's that waiting till *after* they have control of the presidency is well fucking late.

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Originally posted by Doublethink.:
Protest doesn't have to be violent.

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Posted                       

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Originally posted by mousethief:
... I had my gall bladder removed three days ago ....

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Posted                      

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Originally posted by Golden Key:
{H/As--Would someone please remove my messy, partial post a couple of posts up ? I'm having connection problems, and that went through without my knowing.

Many thanks!}

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Posted                      

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Originally posted by MaryLouise:
Just to add that the most powerful image for me was the line of interfaith clergy standing unarmed in front of the militia armed with assault rifles. That is what presence can offer. Image posted by Kate Bishop Shaner

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Posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Boogie:

quote:

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Originally posted by MaryLouise:
Just to add that the most powerful image for me was the line of interfaith clergy standing unarmed in front of the militia armed with assault rifles. That is what presence can offer. Image posted by Kate Bishop Shaner

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This.

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quote:

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Dr. @CornelWest says anti-fascist and anarchist protesters protected clergy from white nationalists Friday night: "They saved our lives"

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Posted                         

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Originally posted by Doc Tor:
That.

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Posted                         

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Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Fine. The non-violent clergy protest was only possible because of those people who stood between them and the fascists - those the clergy acknowledge 'saved their lives'.

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Posted                      

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Originally posted by Crœsos:
This is a bit of popular but erroneous neo-Confederate revisionism. The process that created the federal government, from the Constitutional Convention to the ratification by conventions rather than by the state governments, was designed to bypass the states, largely because the states would have refused to agree to the proposed Constitution.

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Posted                      

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Originally posted by Gamaliel:
I'm tempted to say something Hellish about the Southern States being allowed to hive off independently so they can all shag their cousins, believe the earth to be flat, that the world is 6,000 years old and ...

But that'd be naughty.

They've got good music and good food though.

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Posted                      

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Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
[QB] On Radio 4's Today programme this morning there was a discussion with someone who worked with Steve Bannon on his publication. He said that the Far Right guys were entitled to free speech in the USA and to demonstrate peacefully.

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quote:

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What is causing the violence is antifa arriving armed too, and intending to challenge.

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Posted                          

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Originally posted by Mere Nick:

quote:

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Originally posted by Gamaliel:
I'm tempted to say something Hellish about the Southern States being allowed to hive off independently so they can all shag their cousins, believe the earth to be flat, that the world is 6,000 years old and ...

But that'd be naughty.

They've got good music and good food though.

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It would have been great if the UK immediately thought like this about us when it received the Declaration of Independence, signed by 56 traitors.

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Posted                       

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Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Fine. The non-violent clergy protest was only possible because of those people who stood between them and the fascists - those the clergy acknowledge 'saved their lives'.

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Posted                      

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Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Thought a scriptural response is due. Haven't decided if the dog or pig is more representative.

2 Peter 2:22(b)
"The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire."

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Neither.

Dogs like the taste of vomit because it's the first food they eat. Their mum regurgitates for them.

Raw fed dogs often eat-vomit-eat again to aid the digestion of bone.

Peter simply didn't understand dogs.



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Garden. Room. Walk

Posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Mere Nick:

quote:

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Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
[QB] On Radio 4's Today programme this morning there was a discussion with someone who worked with Steve Bannon on his publication. He said that the Far Right guys were entitled to free speech in the USA and to demonstrate peacefully.

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That part is correct.

quote:

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What is causing the violence is antifa arriving armed too, and intending to challenge.

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Dude . . .

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Posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Martin60:

quote:

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Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Fine. The non-violent clergy protest was only possible because of those people who stood between them and the fascists - those the clergy acknowledge 'saved their lives'.

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Nope. Nothing should have stopped their non-violent protest. And why would they have been killed?

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Posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Gamaliel:
I'm tempted to say something Hellish about the Southern States being allowed to hive off independently so they can all shag their cousins, believe the earth to be flat, that the world is 6,000 years old and ...

But that'd be naughty.

They've got good music and good food though.

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Posted                      

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Originally posted by Brenda Clough:

Look at the pictures. Those people were carrying military-grade armaments -- assault rifles. The local police (starved of funding) do not have that kind of firepower. It makes keeping the peace much more dangerous and difficult.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Martin60:
None of which were used.

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Posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by RuthW:
The neo-Nazis do have the right to free speech and peaceful demonstration. But Bannon knows as well as I do that you don't take weapons if your intention is purely peaceful. Antifa shows up to these things armed because they know the neo-Nazis will be armed.

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quote:

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And the reason for the protest in Charlottesville is that the city council voted to remove the statue of Robert E. Lee from the park.

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Posted                      

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Originally posted by Eutychus:
Without unduly exaggerating the risks I face (which I deem low) I think I can be fairly said to put my life at risk to some extent in following my convictions.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Gamaliel:
I'm tempted to say something Hellish about the Southern States being allowed to hive off independently so they can all shag their cousins, believe the earth to be flat, that the world is 6,000 years old and ...

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quote:

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Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
On Radio 4's Today programme this morning there was a discussion with someone who worked with Steve Bannon on his publication. He said that the Far Right guys were entitled to free speech in the USA and to demonstrate peacefully. What is causing the violence is antifa arriving armed too, and intending to challenge.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Mere Nick:
It appears the precipitating event, or at least the excuse, for the Charlottesville unpleasantness was the city council's decision to sell a piece of property that the town owns. So, it was a violent protest against property rights.

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Posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Mere Nick:
It seems a better idea would be for the protesters to purchase the statue and put it where it is welcome by the property owners.

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Posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by RuthW:
Were they armed? Were you? This is America, dude -- we're well past mere fists, bottles, and sticks. The neo-Nazis in Charlottesville came with shields and clubs, and the governor said in an interview that the ones not openly carrying firearms had them concealed. The antifa contingent came armed with sticks and shields. Both these groups had chemicals they sprayed at each other. A militia group showed up and interposed themselves between these two groups; the militia were armed to the teeth. And of course there were the cops, also armed, though not nearly as well as the neo-Nazis, who had better riot gear. It's a fucking miracle no shots were fired.

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Posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by lilBuddha:

quote:

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Originally posted by Mere Nick:
It seems a better idea would be for the protesters to purchase the statue and put it where it is welcome by the property owners.

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No it wouldn't. That statue was erected in order to anchor the lie that the Civil War was not first and foremost about slavery. Placing it somewhere else would Merely continue that lie.

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Posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Mere Nick:

quote:

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Originally posted by lilBuddha:

quote:

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Originally posted by Mere Nick:
It seems a better idea would be for the protesters to purchase the statue and put it where it is welcome by the property owners.

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No it wouldn't. That statue was erected in order to anchor the lie that the Civil War was not first and foremost about slavery. Placing it somewhere else would Merely continue that lie.

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Why don't you buy it from the owners and melt it down, then?

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Posted                         

quote:

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Originally posted by mousethief:
Ah, THAT's what gives you the right to judge everybody else on this thread! I was wondering!

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Posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Eutychus:

quote:

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Originally posted by mousethief:
Ah, THAT's what gives you the right to judge everybody else on this thread! I was wondering!

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I'm not judging anybody. But I think that when you snarkily suggest Boogie would have turned tail and fled at Selma Bridge, you deserve to be asked for your credentials.

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Posted                       

quote:

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Originally posted by lilBuddha:

quote:

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Originally posted by Brenda Clough:

Look at the pictures. Those people were carrying military-grade armaments -- assault rifles. The local police (starved of funding) do not have that kind of firepower. It makes keeping the peace much more dangerous and difficult.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Martin60:
None of which were used.

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This time. Bringing guns served to escalate tensions. And, IMO, highlights their cowardice.

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Posted                         

quote:

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Originally posted by mousethief:
I see. It's that you are incapable of reading for content. All is forgiven.

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Posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Eutychus:

quote:

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Originally posted by mousethief:
I see. It's that you are incapable of reading for content. All is forgiven.

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Boogie was honest enough to admit her fears.

You gratuitously put her on the line by challenging her as to whether she would have stayed on the bridge at Selma.

The implication being that she ought to be able to overcome her fears and stay.

So I would like to know what entitles you to put her on the line like that.

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