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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Don't blink (Dr Who thread)
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Robert Armin: OK - Clara's continued survival threatens the space-time continuum (whatever) because she was meant to die in London 2015. Agreed?
The way I understand, as long as she dies on that street eventually it will be OK. Even if she takes a long time in between.
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Robert Armin: So how does forgetfulness get round that? Especially if it is the Doctor who forgets?
I don't think that forgetfulness is supposed to get around that. It is supposed to get around something else. It is supposed to get around the fact that the Doctor and Clara together are dangerous for the universe.
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Hedgehog: because I rate the Zygon story even higher than your "Very good" rating.
I guess it's a personal thing. I have a confession to make: I'm not very keen on speeches.
In Star Trek: The Next Generation, some of the highlights of that show to many of the fans are some of Picard's speeches. His speech against Q, his speech about Data's right to decide for himself, his speech about drawing the line in First Contact … I appreciate the sentiments behind all of these moments, but I'm not a speech kind of guy.
The same here. I'm a near-pacifist, so I appreciate the anti-war sentiment of the Zygon two-parter. And I also liked the link with current events, like the refugees etc. And the speech was very well done. But it was still a speech, and I find it hard to get excited about that.
But that's just me; I guess it's a matter of personal taste here.
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Penny S: Like why the Dial turned up with Missy anyway.
I feel I need to watch The Witch's Familiar again. I'm a bit hazy on what happened with the confession dial.
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Penny S: Why the Dr thought he was going to die - again.
This was very well explained to me. I think Hedgehog explained it very well. The Doctor feels responsible for Davros, through the history they had together, and more explicitly through not saving the boy on the battle field. He felt that as Davros was dying, he needed to make amends. And the only way to do that, was to put everything on the line, so that it could result in his death.
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Penny S: Given what happened with it in the end, does that really make sense? Construct his own Purgatory?
I think the Time Lords messed with his confession dial?
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
OK - Clara's continued survival threatens the space-time continuum (whatever) because she was meant to die in London 2015. Agreed? So how does forgetfulness get round that? Especially if it is the Doctor who forgets?
I think the Doctor thinks that the risk to the space-time continuum is overstated.
IIRC, there was a line in there somewhere about the Time Lords being able to track Clara by her memories of the Doctor and vice versa. (I personally think that's why the Doctor never tells anyone his name - he got rid of it so they couldn't find him that way. Likewise, the Master.)
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
quote:
Penny S: Given what happened with it in the end, does that really make sense? Construct his own Purgatory?
I think the Time Lords messed with his confession dial?
The Doctor did have a line in Hell Bent where he says something like "the Dial was never meant to be a torture device" and that it was a device to store a Time Lord's consciousness until it could be transferred to the Matrix.
Of course, how it went from storing a consciousness to storing the actual physical body is a little vague. But there is precedent for that. In the classic series, when the Doctor first went into the Matrix (In "The Deadly Assassin"--to distinguish it from the non-deadly ones) his body stayed out in the real world, vulnerable to attack while his mind was inside the Matrix. But then, in the Trial season, he entered the Matrix physically. I didn't understand how that worked then, and I don't understand how the body gets into the Dial now, but at least it is consistent!
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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
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Dormouse
Glis glis – Ship's rodent
# 5954
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Posted
What were the thoughts on the Christmas special? As a non-Whovian (i.e. I enjoy it but don't follow it avidly) I enjoyed the Speccial very much. A romp which didn't require much over-thinking. But, of course, other opinions are available...
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What are you doing for Lent?
40 days, 40 reflections, 40 acts of generosity. Join the #40acts challenge for #Lent and let's start a movement. www.40acts.org.uk
Posts: 3042 | From: 'twixt les Bois Noirs & Les Monts de la Madeleine | Registered: May 2004
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
Yes. Basically it was aiming for silly and fun and succeeded admirably.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Sparrow
Shipmate
# 2458
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Posted
I agree. And thank goodness for the absence of Missy, Cybermen or Daleks.
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For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life,nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Posts: 3149 | From: Bottom right hand corner of the UK | Registered: Mar 2002
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cattyish
Wuss in Boots
# 7829
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Posted
It was terribly romantic. I did enjoy it though.
Cattyish; the 16th doctor.
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...to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived, this is to have succeeded.
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Posts: 1794 | From: Scotland | Registered: Jul 2004
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
The Christmas specials have become a time to relax, let a few more big names join the cast, and be rather less bothered about polluting the timeline.
I think this is a good thing. This years was fun, silly, and romantic.
Geekiness: The "Many Husbands" reminded me a little of a firefly episode. The plot was, IIRC, not dissimilar.
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Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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The Rogue
Shipmate
# 2275
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Posted
One of the issues facing Time Lords, I have always thought, is recognising each other after a regeneration. I remember in Tom Baker's Deadly Assassin people would see him and only realise who he was after a few moments, usually after he had given them a clue. But how does any non-Time Lord (eg River) have a chance?
An enjoyable episode for me and, as has been mentioned above, Christmas episodes do tend to be quite different - presumably because the viewing population will be more widespread in terms of Who experience. There were plenty of in-jokes (River pulling a fez out of her bag and loads of one-liners), a bit of pathos and some interesting turns from well-known stars. Are established comedians appearing a lot in Who these days?
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If everyone starts thinking outside the box does outside the box come back inside?
Posts: 2507 | From: Toton | Registered: Feb 2002
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
Yes. Basically it was aiming for silly and fun and succeeded admirably.
Totally agree. It was what I had hoped for: just a fun, funny romp. It was good to see the Doctor laugh.
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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
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Sparrow
Shipmate
# 2458
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Posted
"Hello Sweetie"
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life,nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Posts: 3149 | From: Bottom right hand corner of the UK | Registered: Mar 2002
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
Agree with all of you. Lots of fun, and who cares how it fits into the timelines!
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sparrow:
"Hello Sweetie"
And "Spoilers". Both are R Song phrases but delivered by the Doctor.
A nice touch in a nice episode. They should do nice more often.
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Last ever sig ...
blog
Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
So, with the Christmas Episode behind us, it is time for speculation on the next companion(s).
Male or female? Female is the heavy favorite. While the Doctor has had male companions in the past, I can't recall any extended period when there was just the Doctor and a male companion without them immediately adding a female to the mix. The closest I can recall was "The Massacre of St. Bartholomew's Eve"--and even at the end of that the Doctor and Steven picked up Dodo.
Number of companions? The heavy favorite is one, although having two or three might take some of the burden of carrying the show off of Capaldi's shoulders.
Young or old? Oh, this is tricky. The audio adventures had the Sixth Doctor with an older companion (Evelyn Smythe), but it is virgin territory for the televised adventures. It might make for a nice change of pace for Capaldi to be paired with an older companion. In fact, a character like Evelyn would be interesting with him.
Human or alien? The odds favor human but an alien would afford story opportunities as we explore the alien race. But would the viewers tune in to see two non-humans exploring the Universe?
Past, present or future? One of the most popular companions from Classic Who (Jamie) came from the past. I find that there is something more intriguing about that than pairing with a human from the future. NuWho tends to get companions from the Present, and I don't really expect that to change. But it might--nuWho has shown a fondness for Victorian England and it wouldn't totally surprise me if they plucked a companion from there.
Any categories that I missed?
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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
But it might--nuWho has shown a fondness for Victorian England and it wouldn't totally surprise me if they plucked a companion from there.
Allegedly Victorian Clara was going to be the original Clara, until Mark Gatiss complained that he couldn't work out how to explain the cold war to her.
So unless Gatiss has changed his mind, or they've decided they don't need Gatiss to write another script for them, we'll probably get another present day companion. Possibly a future companion, though that has its own problems.
The next companion will be almost certainly female, unless the Doctor's going to regenerate into a woman straightaway, since I can't see them having no female leads. I think two companions works well. If they did have two companions, and they stayed on for the regeneration (I think Capaldi's going to be around for one more year only), and the next Doctor is a woman (which I think they're setting up), then a pair of companions would mean we still had male and female leads.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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cattyish
Wuss in Boots
# 7829
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Posted
From the writers' point of view it must be useful to have a companion to whom the current audience might relate. I think Rose was a helpful companion for this reason. Most of us have worked in a job we were not particularly in love with; most of us have family we love but are infuriated by.
Peter Capaldi's doctor is probably quite good for the parents of those watching Dr Who for the first time to relate to in that he is concerned for the welfare of his companions and wants to see them enjoy themselves. Probably most of us who are responsible for children and teenagers can relate to that. For that reason his companion could usefully be a contrast.
An alien who puts people at risk might be interesting, but there would need to be a more vulnerable character to allow the tension between the doctor's protection and the alien's risk taking to build up over more than one episode I think.
Cattyish, hoping for some fun and nonsense.
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...to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived, this is to have succeeded.
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Posts: 1794 | From: Scotland | Registered: Jul 2004
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
I thought the scriptwriters overdid it with Rose. We got so much of her family life that the series turned into a kind of soap opera, and then there was the Lurve Story. The special worked because it was a one-off but if that had been carried into further episodes it would have been altogether too much (IMO).
I'd still like to see a male companion. I'm sure it will probably be a woman because there's been a longstanding perception that more males than females watch the show (which may not be so true these days), but I'd just like a change from the usual.
I'd actually quite like to see the Doctor pick up a companion from the past - maybe Shakespeare's time or something quite far back but as with these episodes, they have to hit the ground running, not spend a lot of time in wonder and having everything explained to them so I guess they'll be modern, female, and come from London.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
The having things explained can be easily worked round as modern stories have gaps in them where things have been happening which are just hinted at, or not explained at all - like the bit where clara was in the space suit doing the "Gravity" bit with the crawler. Just pick up whoever (Giordano Bruno, from the fire?) and have him/her knowing a lot in the next episode after a gap with reading, computer input, whatever, and just the odd comment on something particularly peculiar.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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M.
Ship's Spare Part
# 3291
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Posted
There have been alien companions in the past, of course, Adric, Turlough and Nyssa spring to mind. Not sure if Kamelion counts (or Madame Vastra and Strax).
Have just re-watched the Christmas episode (did watch it on Christmas Day but kept dozing off!)
M.
Macarius has just reminded me about Romana as well - although she was not alien to the Doctor. Oh, and K9.
[ 27. December 2015, 14:47: Message edited by: M. ]
Posts: 2303 | From: Lurking in Surrey | Registered: Sep 2002
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by M.:
There have been alien companions in the past, of course, Adric, Turlough and Nyssa spring to mind.
True, but they looked very like Earth people. It would be interesting to have someone from a different species - though I'm not sure either whether Vastra and Strax count as actual companions or not. What would the criteria be? I'm thinking residence in the Tardis for more than a single episode.
K9 and Kamelion were both robots which was good but not really aliens.
[ 27. December 2015, 15:13: Message edited by: Ariel ]
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
I finally got to see the Christmas episode last night, after a couple of days of spoiler-dodging.
I thought it was funny, charming, light. And then came the last scene at the restaurant, and it was beautiful. It left me all smiley and a little bit teary.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
By the way - The Face of Evil, which introduced the character Leela, is being shown tonight and tomorrow on BBC4, 7pm.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
Any categories that I missed?
Oh, for goodness sakes! I got so hung up on species (human/alien) that I completely overlooked race. Past companions have been heavily Caucasian, with Martha and Mickey the exceptions (if you count Mickey as a companion...but let's not get into that debate).
I think the odds are pretty good for a non-Caucasian companion this time around. After this past season made a point of adding lots of strong female characters, diversifying race in the show seems like a logical next step to me.
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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
I just managed to watch the Christmas episode, and I agree with what most people have said about it. Light and pleasant.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Alwyn
Shipmate
# 4380
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Posted
I agree with people who are saying that the Christmas episode worked well because it was light, funny, romantic and didn't take itself seriously. I also liked the bits where the Doctor said things which River Song usually says (this reminded me of the time in Back to the Future when Marty McFly and Doc Brown use each other's catchphrases ('This is heavy'/'Great Scott!').
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Post hoc, ergo propter hoc
Posts: 849 | From: UK | Registered: Apr 2003
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