|
Source: (consider it)
|
Thread: Don't blink (Dr Who thread)
|
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
|
Posted
The trailer had him saying "she's my friend" - the tone was ever so slightly like the tones of children in the playground during a discussion of who's friend she was, as they cannot contemplate someone being more than one person's friend. Not entirely believing?
And Gomez is in the cast list. Clara isn't, despite the diner.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
|
Posted
And yet, on the trailer, there is a brief scene showing the Doctor holding the hand of a young woman dressed just like Clara was dressed in the Raven episode. (I phrase it that way because the heads are out of shot--but if it isn't Jenna, it is a body double for her.)
But maybe that is just like "Clara" showed up in "Heaven Sent"--a memory of her rather than her.
LeRoc, if my memory is working correctly, the Doctor repossessed the Dial from Missy when she tracked him down and confronted him about it. He then had it with him when he was taken by the Daleks, because Davros then took it from him and held it for a time. I think the Doctor then took it back from him (about the same time as he repossessed his sunglasses from Davros). That's the last I recall of it until it showed up in the Raven episode.
But, as we know, my memory is not exactly perfect.
--------------------
"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
|
Posted
Okay, that makes sense.
--------------------
I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
|
Posted
Nice!
--------------------
I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ArachnidinElmet:
RA, may I compliment your use of Cockwomble. I'm thinking of slipping it into conversation tomorrow. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
Very kind, but I can't really claim any credit. A friend posted it on Facebook, when discussing last week's Who. While not exactly sure what she meant, I think I got the general drift.....
--------------------
Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
|
Posted
I have a subscription to the Radio Times, and in the run up to Christmas, they are arriving in an accelerated way, as if via tha Tardis. Yesterday was the one for the week after next, and had a letter in which someone told how she had wept over Clara's death, with the editorial comment that tears would flow again after the finale.
[ 04. December 2015, 14:17: Message edited by: Penny S ]
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
Here is a reference to a bit of fun. Guardian piece
And here is the link to what it refers to. Peter Jackson
But Ido not wish my Who episodes to be in 3 parts lasting 3 hours each.
--------------------
Last ever sig ...
blog
Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
|
Posted
Serious question - with the finale less than 24 hrs away, can anyone explain what is going on at the moment? Some of you must understand it.
--------------------
Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
|
Posted
Several of us have theories, but I doubt anybody has the courage to say that we understand it.
Assuming that it isn't all a dream (which I think is Penny S's theory and, frankly, makes it easier to explain away the stuff that doesn't make sense), it appears that the Doctor has returned to Gallifrey. How? Good question. I think he got there somehow through the device known as the Doctor's Confession Dial. What is a Confession Dial? Allegedly it is sort of the Time Lord equivalent to a Last Will & Testament. Why would a Last Will & Testament transport one to Gallifrey? Good question. Apparently, it just does.
If you accept that he is on Gallifrey (regardless of how he got there) he is very angry because on Gallifrey is (apparently) the person or people who set the trap for him back on Earth, which trap apparently transported him into the Confession Dial, which is sort of a torture device that extracts truth (a confession).
Wait, wait, you say. Didn't I just tell you that it was the Doctor's Last Will & Testament? Well spotted. Yes I did. Apparently his Will is a torture device. Or something. And why would anybody trap the Doctor by putting him in his own Will? Good question. Don't know. They just did.
In any event, that trap for the Doctor resulted in the death of Clara (apparently). Which royally ticks off the Doctor (apparently). So, since the person/people who did it are on Gallifrey (apparently) and he is on Gallifrey (apparently) he is going off to get some justice. Or revenge. Maybe.
Do you see why the dream scenario is so much easier to work with?
--------------------
"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Penny S:
Here is a reference to a bit of fun. Guardian piece
And here is the link to what it refers to. Peter Jackson
But Ido not wish my Who episodes to be in 3 parts lasting 3 hours each. [/QUOTE
Whereas we get 12 parts lasting 45 minutes each plus a bit extra at the end plus the Christmas special. Not very different.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
|
Posted
I wouldn't exactly say dream - but an imposed dream from outside. Something along the lines of what (I think) Tolkien said that elves could do. Which is why I have more recently mentioned the holodeck on Star Trek. Travelling in through layer 1, in which Moffatt has been doing this to the Doctor, we get to layer 2, in which someone in the Whoniverse has been doing it to him. Missy, the Time Lords, a group including Ashildr, I haven't the slightest idea any more. But I think it has been going on for at least most of this season, and possibly back further. He may have been in the dial far longer than the last episode, and only thinking he had it in his pocketses all that time.
I wish they would pronounce Ashildr's name properly. It wouldn't be Ash-ildr, it would be As-hildr. It's another thing that doesn't make sense.
One of the techies in the production cast list in Imdb is surnamed Oswald!
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
|
Posted
Oh, and I forgot to summarize the whole "hybrid" thing. So there is (apparently) an ancient Time Lord legend of a hybrid made of the two greatest warrior species in the universe (or something like that), and (apparently) the hybrid was destined to stand in the runs of Gallifrey (or something like that). Davros thought it would be a blend of Dalek and Time Lord but, as the Doctor pointed out in "Heaven Sent," the Daleks would never blend their DNA with anybody. As Ace observed back in classic Who, you can tell the Daleks are all about racial purity. So the Doctor finally stated that the hybrid was "me." Which could either refer to himself or to Ashildr, who tends to call herself "Me." (And kudos to Penny S for pointing that out.) And Ashildr is a human who has been made immortal because the Doctor gave her a Time Lord healing disk.
But, you ask, if the Time Lords have a healing disk that can make you immortal, then why do any Time Lords ever die? Good question. Don't know. Maybe the disk doesn't work as well with Time Lord physiology and it is only less complicated life forms, like humans, that the disk can make immortal.
There. You are ready for the finale, with everything made crystal clear except for, you know, the plot.
--------------------
"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Pine Marten
Shipmate
# 11068
|
Posted
I am so glad I have you lot here, to explain what nobody understands anyway.... I love this thread
--------------------
Keep love in your heart. A life without it is like a sunless garden when the flowers are dead. - Oscar Wilde
Posts: 1731 | From: Isle of Albion | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jack o' the Green
Shipmate
# 11091
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
So the Doctor finally stated that the hybrid was "me." Which could either refer to himself or to Ashildr, who tends to call herself "Me." (And kudos to Penny S for pointing that out.) And Ashildr is a human who has been made immortal because the Doctor gave her a Time Lord healing disk.
If I remember correctly, the Doctor didn't give Ashildr a Time Lord healing disk, but a piece of alien technology taken from the invading alien's (I forget their name) armour.
Posts: 3121 | From: Lancashire, England | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
|
Posted
quote:
Jack o' the Green: a piece of alien technology taken from the invading alien's (I forget their name) armour.
The Mire.
--------------------
I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jack o' the Green
Shipmate
# 11091
|
Posted
Cheers. I didn't want to get bogged down in the details!
Posts: 3121 | From: Lancashire, England | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
|
Posted
I don't think I deserve that kudos - I may have got it somewhere else. Hard to say now.
And, curiously, at one point Osgood described herself as Me, explaining that the human/Zygon issue was irrelevant in her identity. No one else has mentioned that in places I have been.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
|
Posted
Very quickly, I've been re-watching last week. Have any of the other Drs been so dependent on another that they have to talk to someone who isn't there any more?
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jack o' the Green
Shipmate
# 11091
|
Posted
Interesting episode. Presumably, because Clara is frozen in time, she can go round the long way indefinitely. Although the universe needs her to die, if she's frozen, she will never not have died, so never create a schism or fracture in the universe (or something like that).
Posts: 3121 | From: Lancashire, England | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
|
Posted
Yeah, but, overall, I am afraid, thud.
Ashildr's done 4 billion years and remains sane? (Though the memory slipping might have helped.)
The Doctor being cleared of remembering Clara is probably the only way out. I was getting fed up of his learned helplessness.
We now have three lots of maverick timey people wandering around - Jenny, the two women, and the Doctor.
The Daily Telegraph will have splutterings about Clara and Ashildr, and the General being regenerated as a black woman. And being rude about male egos.
And all those infuriating wrongnesses throughout the season turning out to be incompetences and not plot features at all. And Rachel Talalay saying we would have to rewatch the lot to pick up all the clues. Nuts. Rubbish writing.
But the opening scenes were good. All the support of the common people and the soldiers deloping (I think that was the word for duellists shooting somewhere other than their opponent) and Rassilon losing his cool (but remembering to position himself back from the line of fire, unlike the German officer with the Italian firing squad in the film with Gregory Peck about nuns protecting Jewish children). The pacing was good, it was well written. But it got less gripping.
(I wasn't helped by having a phone call in the middle, but I wasn't particularly irritated by it, which tells you something.)(I could, and did, run it back, but that isn't the point.)
I am disappointed. More disappointed than I was when I read "The Box of Delights" the first time and found that "it was all a dream" when "The Midnight Folk" wasn't.
I think my version was better. (Hubris...)
[ 05. December 2015, 20:31: Message edited by: Penny S ]
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
|
Posted
Forgot.
Compare and contrast, children, the tunnels below the cities of the Daleks and of the Time Lords, and the surviving entities therein.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
|
Posted
I liked the ending. That was fun. And Donna finally gets her own back.
The rest had fun bits, but I think it was more a story about ending up in a place than about the journey.
--------------------
we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
|
Posted
Yes, well, that wasn't very tear-inducing. But at least they avoided actually confirming the "Doctor is half human" line, and that was my big worry. I found the last scene to be hopeful: the Doctor getting back to being the Doctor.
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
I think my version was better. (Hubris...)
I was going to warn you about getting too fond of your own theory. I did the same thing years ago. Back in series 5, the TARDIS blew up (the Pandorica thing). At the end of the series, the Doctor made some glib comment about figuring out why it blew up later. I then spent most of series 6 expecting it to explain the explosion. That was the Doctor-dies series. I figured the end result would be that the Doctor changing his own death would cause temporal feedback that would destroy the TARDIS--but that was a price he was willing to pay because he had already fixed it! I thought it was a great twist: to have the Doctor free to do the unthinkable because he had already dealt with the consequences before he even knew he'd have to cause it.
Except that that isn't how it turned out. Instead we got the lame "we lied: he never died" explanation. I was very disappointed--my theory was SO MUCH BETTER! And the whole TARDIS blowing up thing was not explained until Matt Smith's last episode, when it was just brushed off with a throw away line.
But life goes on. Unless you are Danny Pink. And possibly Orson Pink. Who, apparently, we should just forget.
Did I mention that it was time for the Moff to move on?
[ 06. December 2015, 02:40: Message edited by: Hedgehog ]
--------------------
"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
|
Posted
I managed to watch it now, and I found it a bit underwhelming.
Still, I think that Season 9 was one of the best of NuWho. Last week's episode was a classic for me, and there were around three more that were very good. Also two or three duds, but overall I feel that it compares very well with other seasons.
It took me a while to warm up to Capaldi, but I feel he really moved into the role this season, so I'm excited to see more of him. I never got into Clara much, so I'm not sad to see her go. Looking forward to who the next companion will be (I don't think it will be Ashildr or Osgood). Oh, and I'm sure there will be one or two bases under siege. I have no problem with that.
If you haven't seen the "next time" trailer this may be a spoiler, but we'll have River Song over for Christmas. I'm a bit in two minds about this: I always liked her, perhaps more than the common denominator of internet did (but I liked Vash in Star Trek; I guess I have a thing for female Indiana Joneses). But there is always the danger of a let-down when a character who's arc seems to have ended is brought back. Let's hope for the best.
quote:
Penny S: And all those infuriating wrongnesses throughout the season turning out to be incompetences and not plot features at all. And Rachel Talalay saying we would have to rewatch the lot to pick up all the clues. Nuts. Rubbish writing.
To be honest, I still believe that most of the clues you have mentioned on this thread didn't exist, except on a discussion site that admits itself that it is about crazy theories. There was never a thing about pods, or snakes, or names starting with Os- in this season (though you were right about Me).
quote:
Hedgehog: And possibly Orson Pink. Who, apparently, we should just forget.
Yeah. I didn't have high hopes that this was going to be resolved; I guess this will stay a loose end.
--------------------
I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
|
Posted
I think there were things about repeating themes, though. Last night there were the things trapped in the cloisters by the cables of the Matrix, which was an echo of the snake cables which trapped the Doctor on Skaro, and the cables which pulled Clara into the Morpheus machine. And there has been a sequence of coffins of various sorts, and stuff about eyes. That these turned out to be literary devices rather than carrying plot meaning doesn't mean they weren't there. I suspect now that they were there not only for elegant and varied repetition, but also to mislead the fans.
However, what really gets my goat is the use of what now appear to be poorly researched historical assumptions. viz: horned helmets, electric eels, confusion of 17th and 18th centuries. (Were there others - can't recall off hand?) There was no need for that sort of careless writing and production values at all, and I regard it as treating the audience with contempt. Like the end of Blake's Seven. If done unknowingly, it's carelessness. If done with an attitude of "they'll complain, but who cares?" which some reports about the helmets suggested, it's rude.
When they can do stuff like last week's episode, with stunning writing and production, they have let themselves down.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
|
Posted
Meh. I know I'm in a funny mood today anyway, but I felt very little.
--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
|
Posted
I think the Zygon story was the standout this season. I also liked "The Girl Who Died/The Woman Who Lived" quite a lot.
The 3-part finale had its moments, but I really didn't feel emotionally involved as often as I should have. "Heaven Sent" was the best, and the last part of it was very powerful. "Face the Raven" had good moments but was perhaps a bit overwrought, and then "Hell Bent" was even more along those lines, trying to make me feel things rather than actually letting it happen.
I dunno. Maybe I'm just being a big grump. I intend to rewatch the finale to see if I get more out of it.
--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
|
Posted
You should realise that someone has spotted that the musician going down into the dark places to rescue the woman in his life has a precursor. And having his memory wiped eliminates the possibility of looking back.
[ 06. December 2015, 13:23: Message edited by: Penny S ]
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
|
Posted
My not so humble opinion:
The Magician's Apprentice The Witch's Familiar: the first part was a bit chaotic, with too many ideas being thrown at us. The confrontation with Davros was not brilliant, but it was OK. Good.
Under the Lake / Before the Flood: people who wanted behind-the-couch moments got them here. Cass was a good character. The resolution left a bit to be desired. Okay.
The Girl Who Died / The Woman Who Lived: the Dad's Army part was a bit daft, but it can be forgiven because the two parter told a good story about immortality. Good acting by Williams. Very good.
The Zygon Invasion / The Zygon Inversion: the running around in New Mexico and Turmezistan didn't do much for me, but it was more than made up for in the second part, with as highlight of course the Doctor's speech about war. Very good.
Sleep No More: an experiment that misfired. But I can forgive them for doing that every once in a while. Meh.
Face the Raven / Heaven Sent / Hell Bent: I wasn't that attached to Clara, but I admire that they faced her death in the eyes (the last episode didn't take that away for me). Heaven Sent was pure brilliance. Hell Bent didn't do much for me. So I have good, classic, okay for the three parts. It still gives a very good for me overall.
So, I have a meh, an okay, a good and three very goods. I don't think there are many seasons that can live up to that.
[ 06. December 2015, 13:52: Message edited by: LeRoc ]
--------------------
I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
The 3-part finale had its moments, but I really didn't feel emotionally involved as often as I should have. "Heaven Sent" was the best, and the last part of it was very powerful. "Face the Raven" had good moments but was perhaps a bit overwrought, and then "Hell Bent" was even more along those lines, trying to make me feel things rather than actually letting it happen.
I agree that Heaven Sent was the strongest and Hell Bent the weakest of the three, with Face the Raven in the middle. I feel I rate them both more strongly than you do - Heaven Sent feels like one of the highlights of the whole modern series, and Face the Raven isn't far behind. Hell Bent had a bit much mucking around with Gallifrey and also with the Doctor crossing ethical boundaries for my liking. But the idea of Me and Clara embarking on their own spin-off series (which sadly we'll never see(*)) in an American diner is just wonderful.
(*) Big Finish are no doubt drawing up contracts even as we speak.
--------------------
we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
|
Posted
quote:
Hedgehog: I was going to warn you about getting too fond of your own theory. I did the same thing years ago. Back in series 5, the TARDIS blew up (the Pandorica thing). At the end of the series, the Doctor made some glib comment about figuring out why it blew up later. I then spent most of series 6 expecting it to explain the explosion. That was the Doctor-dies series. I figured the end result would be that the Doctor changing his own death would cause temporal feedback that would destroy the TARDIS--but that was a price he was willing to pay because he had already fixed it! I thought it was a great twist: to have the Doctor free to do the unthinkable because he had already dealt with the consequences before he even knew he'd have to cause it.
Nice one, I like it.
--------------------
I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
M.
Ship's Spare Part
# 3291
|
Posted
Meh. So boring again.
Why is it that no character is actually allowed to die these days? It takes all the power out of it.
M.
Posts: 2303 | From: Lurking in Surrey | Registered: Sep 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by M.:
Meh. So boring again.
Why is it that no character is actually allowed to die these days? It takes all the power out of it.
Options open - in case they want to bring them back.
--------------------
Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
|
Posted
I really want to see a spin off Clara and Me where they wander the universe having the ultimate good time. No saving the world or anything, just one big universe-sized party.
--------------------
Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
|
Posted
Clara and Me in the new CBBC Coal Hill School show perhaps?
I have nothing bad to say about the last episode. Nostalgia has got the better of me with the old TARDIS control room and a welcome return of reversing the polarity.
--------------------
Last ever sig ...
blog
Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
M.
Ship's Spare Part
# 3291
|
Posted
Well, yes, the best bits were the old Tardis console room, reversing the polarity and - hurrah! - a new sonic screwdriver.
M.
Posts: 2303 | From: Lurking in Surrey | Registered: Sep 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by M.:
Why is it that no character is actually allowed to die these days? It takes all the power out of it.
Firstly, because it's a family show and killing off brave young women isn't something we like to do on family shows.
Secondly, because killing off your characters has become cheap. Anyone can kill off character, add instant drama. Living is better than dying because dying is easy.
--------------------
we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
My not so humble opinion:
The Magician's Apprentice The Witch's Familiar: the first part was a bit chaotic, with too many ideas being thrown at us. The confrontation with Davros was not brilliant, but it was OK. Good.
Under the Lake / Before the Flood: people who wanted behind-the-couch moments got them here. Cass was a good character. The resolution left a bit to be desired. Okay.
The Girl Who Died / The Woman Who Lived: the Dad's Army part was a bit daft, but it can be forgiven because the two parter told a good story about immortality. Good acting by Williams. Very good.
The Zygon Invasion / The Zygon Inversion: the running around in New Mexico and Turmezistan didn't do much for me, but it was more than made up for in the second part, with as highlight of course the Doctor's speech about war. Very good.
Sleep No More: an experiment that misfired. But I can forgive them for doing that every once in a while. Meh.
Face the Raven / Heaven Sent / Hell Bent: I wasn't that attached to Clara, but I admire that they faced her death in the eyes (the last episode didn't take that away for me). Heaven Sent was pure brilliance. Hell Bent didn't do much for me. So I have good, classic, okay for the three parts. It still gives a very good for me overall.
So, I have a meh, an okay, a good and three very goods. I don't think there are many seasons that can live up to that.
I find myself largely in agreement with your not so humble opinions.
I still think I prefer last year to this year, just a little. Last year's themes felt more coherent. After last year's finale, I found myself wanting to rewatch the season in a way that had never happened before.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Piglet
Islander
# 11803
|
Posted
I'm not a Whovian, but we happened to catch an episode of it tonight on the Space Channel, and were mightily amused at the Doctor describing Gallifrey as "like Glasgow, but in space".
Which possibly explains what are probably the coolest chairs in the known universe. ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
--------------------
I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
|
Posted
I thought Mackintosh - but didn't make the connection!
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Piglet
Islander
# 11803
|
Posted
We reckoned the ones in the show were based on this one, but with "Glasgow roses" carved from the oval bit.
We have a very crude copy of the Swallow chair, made of shot-blasted Mexican pine which D. found in a scruffy furniture shop in Belfast and lovingly coated with lots of black paint to hide the shot-holes. When I came home from w*rk and saw it silhouetted against the dining-room window I was completely gobsmacked. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
[ 07. December 2015, 13:10: Message edited by: Piglet ]
--------------------
I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
|
Posted
Now they can do stuff like that, and still think horned helmets, electric eels, codices and confused centuries are OK! Complete dissonance.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
And Gomez is in the cast list. Clara isn't, despite the diner.
One thing I have learned this series--pay no attention to the IMDB cast list for future episodes. Was Gomez in "Hell Bent" at all? Even in flashback? I know my attention was a little distracted, but I don't recall her. Jenna, of course, was there quite a lot. But I am sure she was kept out of the cast list to preserve the surprise.
LeRoc, I generally agree with your ratings. I think you like "Heaven Sent" more than I did, but that balances because I rate the Zygon story even higher than your "Very good" rating. Yes, all in all, this was not a bad series. The Dalek story, while it had more than its fair share of silliness, was entertaining. "Under the Lake/Before the Flood" kept my interest going. Ashildr's first story was a little overly silly, but her second appearance was wonderful. "Sleep No More" will soon be forgotten. The Raven episode was compelling and (thankfully) the following episodes did not destroy that.
And it looks like the Christmas episode may be light-hearted, which will make a nice change from the last three episodes.
--------------------
"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
|
Posted
OK - Clara's continued survival threatens the space-time continuum (whatever) because she was meant to die in London 2015. Agreed? So how does forgetfulness get round that? Especially if it is the Doctor who forgets?
Are we now to expect to see a lot more of the Time Lords? Instead of being sealed away in an alternate dimension, they are at the end of time and space - which isn't a problem when any old Tardis can zip you away from there (as we saw).
Why was the President so angry with the Doctor that he (at first) tried to kill him? Isn't that a rubbish way of getting information out of any one? (Even when the topic is as boring as the Hybrid.)
Overall, I agree with Hedgehog - Raven was good, but the next two episodes fell apart. Just like the very first episode of this season, and all that followed. I'd say there were only two decent episodes in this entire run, but Christmas might cheer things up.....
--------------------
Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
Why was the President so angry with the Doctor that he (at first) tried to kill him? Isn't that a rubbish way of getting information out of any one? (Even when the topic is as boring as the Hybrid.)
Theory: The President was no longer trying to get info at that point. Getting info about the hybrid was the justification for trapping the Doctor in the Dial (and the repeated lines that he could have gotten out any time he wanted if he had just told what he knew). But at the end of "Heaven Sent," after he has left the Dial, he picks it up and says something like "I'm sure you can still here me..." and then gives his line about "The hybrid is Me."
So, if the President was listening, he was just told that the dangerous hybrid was the Doctor and that is why he then tried to kill the Doctor.
[I have no answer for why Clara isn't still a danger to the Web of Time(tm), nor do I know whether we will be pestered with loads of Time Lords now. The banishment of the President suggests that he is being set up to be a new Big Bad--except that he seems to be just a pompous politician (yes, I know; redundant), which is hardly the makings for a good villain.]
--------------------
"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
|
Posted
An interesting parallel: The very first companion of the Doctor to die during an adventure happened 50 years ago, on December 4, 1965.
Story HERE.
--------------------
"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
|
Posted
Unless the Christmas special manages to sneak in a few answers to stuff that's dangling like unused bits of snakey cable from one of the sets, I'm probably giving up.
Like why the Dial turned up with Missy anyway. Why the Dr thought he was going to die - again.
It's not just me being wrong, I didn't invent stuff that wasn't there, I think I've been messed with. It's not fair dealing.
[ 07. December 2015, 22:49: Message edited by: Penny S ]
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
Like why the Dial turned up with Missy anyway. Why the Dr thought he was going to die - again.
You won't like my answer but: The Doctor knew that Davros was searching for him and wanted to see him before Davros "died." Although it wasn't shown in "The Magician's Apprentice" a prequel bit showed that. That is why the Doctor was secluding himself (sort of) at the start. Going to Skaro to see Davros was a deadly proposition, so it caused the Doctor to think that he might die.
So he prepared the Confession Dial. And who else would he give it to? It had to be another Time Lord--nobody else would know what to do with it. And which Time Lord would he mostly likely seek out, but his best frenemy? (And if, at the time, he didn't know where Gallifrey was, there really wasn't any other choice.)
--------------------
"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
|
Posted
Given what happened with it in the end, does that really make sense? Construct his own Purgatory?
I can see that your idea works in the the Moffattverse, apart from that. Oh, and that he should have thought that Missy was dead.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
Thread closed
Printer-friendly view
