|
Source: (consider it)
|
Thread: Purgatory: Wycliffe Hall in trouble
|
pete173
Shipmate
# 4622
|
Posted
No, I didn't sign it. Of the 30 odd (very odd!) evangelical bishops who meet regularly (self-described, with no sense that we are an exclusive bunch), 20 of us signed it.
--------------------
Pete
Posts: 1653 | From: Kilburn, London NW6 | Registered: Jun 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Nightlamp
Shipmate
# 266
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hermeneut:
Another development (or possibly pure speculation)
here
I thought the comment about the NT scholar was more telling.
--------------------
I don't know what you are talking about so it couldn't have been that important- Nightlamp
Posts: 8442 | From: Midlands | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Fr Jim
Apprentice
# 13384
|
Posted
Could someone tell me whether Andrew Goddard has been replaced, or Elizabeth Goddard? And I read this on another blog page about David Wenham's possible successor. Does anyone have any info?
'Friday 1 February 2008 - 12:48pm
Wycliffe Hall has been having problems finding a good New Testament tutor to replace David Wenham. (You will all recall that the hitherto unknown Andy Angel withdrew his acceptance of this post last year). I met some people last night at a church meeting in Oxford who told me that WH had interviewed four candidates who weer all young PhD types from North America. No good candidates from the UK, it seems.
Posts: 5 | From: Annapolis MD | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Scribehunter
Shipmate
# 12750
|
Posted
I don't have much in the way of concrete information on this, but I would have thought that the scenario of US candidates is pretty plausible.
a) Plenty of reformed-conservative types with spurious doctorates.
b) Americans are quite used to having crazy autocrats in charge (e.g. Bush and Cheney).
c) Americans are not likely to have heard of the Wycliffe troubles (since they have mostly taken place in England, which is after all pretty much a foreign country).
d) There are thousands of them in need of jobs.
e) Lots of them have conservative views.
f) Most NT lectures in Church of England colleges are foreigners.
Posts: 143 | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Fr Jim
Apprentice
# 13384
|
Posted
Thanks, Scribehunter, but I can assure you that no-one I know in the Eastern States would touch Wycliffe Hall with a proverbial barge pole. We Americans might not be that smart, but the smart ones among us know when an institution is going into meltdown. This doesn't mean, of course, that WH won't attract any Americans who teach New Testament. There are plenty from Texas, Kansas or Oklahoma who, as you rightly point out are used to near-idiot leadership and are are very easily impressed by Englanders! God bless them.
Posts: 5 | From: Annapolis MD | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Scribehunter
Shipmate
# 12750
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Fr Jim:
Thanks, Scribehunter, but I can assure you that no-one I know in the Eastern States would touch Wycliffe Hall with a proverbial barge pole. We Americans might not be that smart, but the smart ones among us know when an institution is going into meltdown. This doesn't mean, of course, that WH won't attract any Americans who teach New Testament. There are plenty from Texas, Kansas or Oklahoma who, as you rightly point out are used to near-idiot leadership and are are very easily impressed by Englanders! God bless them.
Father Jim,
I perceive that you are a prophet. I gather that the new appointment indeed comes direct from Oklahoma Baptist University. (But that he has been properly educated with a doctorate from that other place in the bogs of East Anglia)
Posts: 143 | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
FreeJack
Shipmate
# 10612
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Scribehunter:
Father Jim,
I perceive that you are a prophet. I gather that the new appointment indeed comes direct from Oklahoma Baptist University. (But that he has been properly educated with a doctorate from that other place in the bogs of East Anglia)
I could just about stomach the choice of an American, but a Tab, never. Say it isn't so!
Posts: 3588 | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Charles Read
Shipmate
# 3963
|
Posted
Do you refer perchance to this university ?
--------------------
"I am a sinful human being - why do you expect me to be consistent?" George Bebawi
"This is just unfocussed wittering." Ian McIntosh
Posts: 701 | From: Norwich | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Scribehunter
Shipmate
# 12750
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Read:
Do you refer perchance to this university ?
I think the other one in the same town. Are degrees from Cambridge recognised in Oxford?
Posts: 143 | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Scribehunter
Shipmate
# 12750
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by FreeJack:
quote:
Originally posted by Scribehunter:
Father Jim,
I perceive that you are a prophet. I gather that the new appointment indeed comes direct from Oklahoma Baptist University. (But that he has been properly educated with a doctorate from that other place in the bogs of East Anglia)
I could just about stomach the choice of an American, but a Tab, never. Say it isn't so!
Yes a Tab indeed; and a Texan. From an Oxford perspective which is worse?
Posts: 143 | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Arrietty
Ship's borrower
# 45
|
Posted
I don't know anything about the appointee other than what's been posted here, but what would concern me more than where they got their degree would be whether they were able to fulfil effectively any role they took as a tutor in ministerial formation for ordinands in the C of E.
--------------------
i-church
Online Mission and Ministry
Posts: 6634 | From: Coventry, UK | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Fr Jim
Apprentice
# 13384
|
Posted
There are some neat guys in religion at Oklahoma Baptist University. But they are guys. If I remember OBU doesn't have women teaching religion there - I don't think they even have women adjunct professors in nice, 'female' areas like pastoral care and counselling.
I doubt if anybody from OBU could start to understand the workings of the Church of England, Arrietty, and wouldn't know how to start preparing ordinands for it. But if what I read about Wycliffe Hall is true, what does it matter -they will feel right at home amongt the present faculty.
Posts: 5 | From: Annapolis MD | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
John Holding
Coffee and Cognac
# 158
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Scribehunter:
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Read:
Do you refer perchance to this university ?
I think the other one in the same town. Are degrees from Cambridge recognised in Oxford?
Degrees from Cambridge (and Trininty COllege, Dublin) are (or were in my day) the only degrees from other universities formally recognized in Oxford. The others existed, but had no formal standing -- so Doctors from such trivial universities such as Harvard and the Sorbonne were (and probably still are) awarded Oxford MAs to give them something to wear on academic occasions and formal standing in the university.
Cambridge did/does the same.
John
Posts: 5929 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Custard
Shipmate
# 5402
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Arrietty:
I don't know anything about the appointee other than what's been posted here, but what would concern me more than where they got their degree would be whether they were able to fulfil effectively any role they took as a tutor in ministerial formation for ordinands in the C of E.
![[brick wall]](graemlins/brick_wall.gif)
The people in charge of ministerial formation here are all Anglicans. This is a primarily academic post and, like most colleges, we employ several non-Anglican teaching staff.
--------------------
blog
Adam's likeness, Lord, efface;
Stamp thine image in its place.
Posts: 4523 | From: Snot's Place | Registered: Jan 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Arrietty
Ship's borrower
# 45
|
Posted
Custard, having been fully trained and ordained for several years I am, believe it or not, possibly a little further on than you in my understanding of ministerial formation and the resources needed to sustain someone as an ordained minister.
The fact you seem to think you know everything there is to know about formation doesn't surprise me because it's consistent with my perception of your attitude across this whole thread. However, just because you believe something it doesn't make it true.
My comment was not, believe it or not, intended as an invitation for another spirited defence of Wycliffe Hall and everything it does.
I have a right to be concerned about training because anyone now in training could in due course end up as a colleague. If ordinands are not properly trained in the end it's other people who will have to pick up the pieces, not Wycliffe Hall.
--------------------
i-church
Online Mission and Ministry
Posts: 6634 | From: Coventry, UK | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Scribehunter
Shipmate
# 12750
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Custard.:
quote:
Originally posted by Arrietty:
I don't know anything about the appointee other than what's been posted here, but what would concern me more than where they got their degree would be whether they were able to fulfil effectively any role they took as a tutor in ministerial formation for ordinands in the C of E.
The people in charge of ministerial formation here are all Anglicans. This is a primarily academic post and, like most colleges, we employ several non-Anglican teaching staff.
This is clearly nonsense and I hope it is a Custardism rather than a Wycliffe principle. The New Testament ought to be entirely central in ministerial education and formation. The tutor in NT is a central appointment in any theological college.
Posts: 143 | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Yerevan
Shipmate
# 10383
|
Posted
I'm sort of with Custard on this one (wow!). Anyone training ordinands for Anglican ministry has to be familiar with Anglicanism and willing to work within an Anglican framework. On the other hand I'm not sure they have to be Anglican (its probably a healthy thing if a few of them aren't). On the other hand I can't help thinking they could have done better then a young guy from OBU*, which makes me wonder if there wasn't an 'ideological' element to the appointment.
*Ok, he has a PhD from Cambridge, but so do literally thousands of other people who still aren't qualified to hold an important academic post.
[ 06. February 2008, 09:17: Message edited by: Yerevan ]
Posts: 3758 | From: In the middle | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Ethne Alba
Shipmate
# 5804
|
Posted
If this horse isn't up and running soon, the kindest thing is to take it out and shoot it.
When it runs everyone will see if it has a future.
Get it running.
I for one don't really care if it's staffed by Americans, English or our brethren from the land of Eskimoes.
Posts: 3126 | Registered: Apr 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
J Whitgift
Pro ecclesia dei!
# 1981
|
Posted
It's not unusual to have teachers from outside of a theological College's tradition taking seminars. Both my father (an Anglican) and the Anglo-Catholic theologian, Ken Leech, have taught at a particular Baptist Theological College in South London. I've met other Priests who've taken on similar positions in the past.
However, I agree with Arietty. We need to ensure that 'formation' produced well trained Priests, able to work and cope with the life of a Priest in the modern world. Therefore the person filling the post must meet academic standards and be effective in their work in 'formation'. Other considerations are surely secondary to that.
--------------------
On the issue of homosexuality the Liberals have spent their time thinking, considering and listening (in the spirit of the Windsor process), whereas Conservative Anglicans have used the time to further dig their feet in and become more intransigent.
Posts: 2838 | From: Gone shoreside | Registered: Dec 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Low Treason
Shipmate
# 11924
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Scribehunter:
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Read:
Do you refer perchance to this university ?
I think the other one in the same town. Are degrees from Cambridge recognised in Oxford?
Not exactly: the Official Line is that Oxford does not recognise the degree but does recognise that Cambridge graduates have reached the standards and other qualifications required to obtain Oxford degrees - so Cambridge (and Trinity Dublin) graduates are entitled to proceed to the same degree at Oxford that they have already taken at Cambridge.
This is known as 'Incorporation'
--------------------
He brought me to the banqueting house, and His banner over me was love.
Posts: 1914 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
BroJames
Shipmate
# 9636
|
Posted
IME, tutors in e.g. Church History, NT and OT did not per se have much involvement in the ministerial formation aspects of training. Those whose personal qualities or experience suited them for that role did along with those whose appointments were specifically directed to that task. Everyone was expected to support the ethos of the college which was oriented towards formation as well as the technical aspects of training.
I guess the kinds of concerns one might have about an NT tutor from outside the Anglican Communion would be whether in relation to baptism, church order, or the ministry of women (to choose the three most obvious cruxes (cruces?) I can think of) they had strong views about what the NT has to say which would sit uncomfortably within a training institution preparing people for ministry in the whole Church of England.
Otherwise - if this is the person appointed - he seems to be a promising teacher who is suitably qualified, and his profile is not unlike that of other appointments to theological colleges.
People of the status and calibre of (e.g.) David Wenham are, I believe, relatively rare in those settings.
[ 06. February 2008, 11:11: Message edited by: BroJames ]
Posts: 3374 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Nightlamp
Shipmate
# 266
|
Posted
I don't see any problem with a non-anglican appointment.
--------------------
I don't know what you are talking about so it couldn't have been that important- Nightlamp
Posts: 8442 | From: Midlands | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
innocent(ish)
Shipmate
# 12691
|
Posted
I don't see a problem either. At the only Anglican Trianing institution of which I have direct experience (Ridley Hall), the New Testament tutoring was given by at least four different people, whose background was from a variety of churches. As NT lectures were given to all those in the Cambridge Theological Federation at the same time, there wasn't a particular slant one way or the other.
Each of the member institutions had seperate lecturers concerned with the formation of their individual traditions. All round a very good way of doing things IME (mind you, I have nothing to compare it with)
[ 06. February 2008, 12:00: Message edited by: innocent(ish) ]
--------------------
"Christianity has become part of the furniture ... like a grand piano nobody plays any longer.I want the dust to be taken off and people to play music." Archbishop John Sentamu
Posts: 109 | From: Rochester | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Arrietty
Ship's borrower
# 45
|
Posted
I trained in an ecumenical institution so I don't have any problem with non-Anglicans per se either.
However the concept of people teaching ordinands on a purely academic basis with no input to their formation is clearly a non-starter in a theological college setting. The theological education and ministerial formation are meant to take place together. You form a community which is geared towards ministerial formation and everyone is a part of that. Otherwise why bother?
--------------------
i-church
Online Mission and Ministry
Posts: 6634 | From: Coventry, UK | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Custard
Shipmate
# 5402
|
Posted
I agree to an extent. I think, for example, that lifestyle issues and personal holiness (for which read humility, avoiding gossip, sexual morality, etc) should play a major part in selecting candidates for this sort of job.
On the other hand, it's also important to recognise that Anglicans don't have a monopoly on those. What do you need Anglicans for? Teaching about issues affecting the Anglican church and how to work within the Anglican church. It's the Anglican didactic content side of things rather than the Christian living side of things that needs Anglican staff.
And the Anglican didactic content side of things is headed up by Will Donaldson (formerly DDO or something to Pete Broadbent), who is very definitely Anglican.
We've already got one Baptist and one Dutch Reformed member of academic teaching staff, both of whom have been here at least as long as Richard Turnbull. We've also got quite a few non-Anglican students. It really isn't a problem.
--------------------
blog
Adam's likeness, Lord, efface;
Stamp thine image in its place.
Posts: 4523 | From: Snot's Place | Registered: Jan 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
BroJames
Shipmate
# 9636
|
Posted
I don't think anyone has suggested that the appointee would have no input into the formational side of training. Just that apart from the formational task of the institution as a whole, others might have the express task of formation within the Anglican tradition.
(What innocent(ish) has said.)
Posts: 3374 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Arrietty
Ship's borrower
# 45
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by BroJames:
I don't think anyone has suggested that the appointee would have no input into the formational side of training.
Actually I think Custard has - at least that's how I read:
quote:
Originally posted by Custard.:
The people in charge of ministerial formation here are all Anglicans. This is a primarily academic post and, like most colleges, we employ several non-Anglican teaching staff.
[Coding]
[ 06. February 2008, 14:36: Message edited by: Arrietty ]
--------------------
i-church
Online Mission and Ministry
Posts: 6634 | From: Coventry, UK | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Scribehunter
Shipmate
# 12750
|
Posted
Typically integrated thinking here from the Custard. One would hope that in an evangelical theological college students would be formed for ministry by the evangel. Like it or not the NT Tutor has a primary role in helping students encounter, study and interpret that evangel.
This new guy sounds pretty good for a Texan. Seems quite human (although young like the policemen), has a recognised PhD, has an academic book, knows about Galatians, looks basically heterosexual, seems to enjoy teaching and challenging students. He probably has extensive experience in the Church of England while in Cambridge (StAG?).
Posts: 143 | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
J Whitgift
Pro ecclesia dei!
# 1981
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Scribehunter:
... looks basically heterosexual ...
![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif)
You can tell just by looking!?! Wow!!
[Reminder to self: Get Gaydar/Straight Person sensor fixed. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) ]
--------------------
On the issue of homosexuality the Liberals have spent their time thinking, considering and listening (in the spirit of the Windsor process), whereas Conservative Anglicans have used the time to further dig their feet in and become more intransigent.
Posts: 2838 | From: Gone shoreside | Registered: Dec 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Cadfael
Shipmate
# 11066
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by J Whitgift:
quote:
Originally posted by Scribehunter:
... looks basically heterosexual ...
You can tell just by looking!?! Wow!!
[Reminder to self: Get Gaydar/Straight Person sensor fixed. ]
Surely, the wife and two children listed on the profile are something of a clue... aren't they...?
Unless the implication is that a prospective member of staff for WH would be qualified if he looks like he is, whether he is or not?
Are there similar criteria at the other Anglican college in Oxford ...?
Posts: 576 | From: North by North West | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Charles Read
Shipmate
# 3963
|
Posted
His not being Anglican is no problem per se but he will need to acquire sufficient understanding of and empathy with the C of E to engage in the formational aspects of the job - for NT tutior is a crucial formational post!
My NT colleague in Durham was a House Church leader with a Baptist ecclesiology but understood the C of E and could challenge students (esp. conservative evangelical ones!) about their readiness to minister within it. He was an excelllent colleague - even when we disagreed!
--------------------
"I am a sinful human being - why do you expect me to be consistent?" George Bebawi
"This is just unfocussed wittering." Ian McIntosh
Posts: 701 | From: Norwich | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Fool on Hill
Shipmate
# 12183
|
Posted
I have no problem with non-Anglicans. What does trouble me is the idea that academic study and ministerial formation can be separated - I believe they are intimately related. The separation of the two is dangerously reductionist, has led to a deep suspicion of academia in large parts of the church, leaves us under-resourced in our practical theological and pastoral reflection and is a thoroughly bad thing.
In fact it reflects a faulty reductionist anthropology, rather than the all-encompassing command to love God with heart and mind and soul and strength.
--------------------
God appointed a worm that attacked the bush so that it withered.
Posts: 171 | From: Berkshire | Registered: Dec 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
FreeJack
Shipmate
# 10612
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Scribehunter:
quote:
Originally posted by FreeJack:
I could just about stomach the choice of an American, but a Tab, never. Say it isn't so!
Yes a Tab indeed; and a Texan. From an Oxford perspective which is worse?
Well I've dated a Texan, but never knowingly dated a Tab!
[For non-classical readers, Tab is a slang short form of the University of Cambridge in Latin.]
Posts: 3588 | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Magistra
Apprentice
# 13066
|
Posted
The Synod debate over the Ecclesiastical Offices Measure on Tuesday morning contained a discussion about use of secular courts to settle employment disputes, to which Dr Storkey contributed. To hear the debate, go to the last link "Audio of Session" and skip forward 56 minutes. Dr Storkey's contribution can be heard at 1hr 6mins. This discussion deals with many of the questions raised on this thread.
Posts: 37 | From: Oxford | Registered: Oct 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Magistra
Apprentice
# 13066
|
Posted
Apologies - I should have acknowledged Jody at Fulcrum for the heads-up.
Posts: 37 | From: Oxford | Registered: Oct 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
|
Posted
Thanks Magistra. I'll listen to the rest at leisure. The prolongued round of applause after Elaine Storkey spoke (IMO in a very measured and sensible way as to the principle) said rather a lot.
--------------------
Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Magistra
Apprentice
# 13066
|
Posted
She spoke calmly and purposefully, certainly, but not without a note of (righteous?) fury. Her point, as I understand it, was that in an ideal world the Church would have internal structures to deal justly with employment disputes - albeit "in public view" - as recommended in 1 Corinthians 6. But, since the relevant ecclesiastical authorities so clearly failed to uphold justice in the Wycliffe case, it is legitimate to turn to a secular court which (unlike the courts available to the Corinthians) is firmly grounded in Christian values. She identified these as the defence of the vulnerable; the principle that the law should be "no respecter of persons"; the pursuit of justice for the oppressed. She finished her speech by asking why, when blessed with a judicial system shaped by Christian ideals, should clergy and employees of the Church not stand alongside any other vulnerable person in this nation?
We also had a further glimpse into the series of events which led to this awful situation (large sums of money offered to staff to leave quietly, etc.).
Posts: 37 | From: Oxford | Registered: Oct 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Nightlamp
Shipmate
# 266
|
Posted
It leaves me wondering which would be considered to be the most morale taking pots of cash and hiding a sickness in a christian organisation or taking a christian organisation to court.
--------------------
I don't know what you are talking about so it couldn't have been that important- Nightlamp
Posts: 8442 | From: Midlands | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
innocent(ish)
Shipmate
# 12691
|
Posted
I see that the new bishop of Coventry is to be Chris Cocksworth, currently principal of Ridley Hall Theological College. The College has thrived under Chris and Graham Cray before him, and it should be interesting to see who replaces Chris at Ridley.
The danger I guess is for the Ridley Council in their efforts to not repeat the same situation that happened at Wycliffe, that they go for someone who is safe and steady rather than dynamic and forward looking.
I suppose Richard Turnbull could apply
--------------------
"Christianity has become part of the furniture ... like a grand piano nobody plays any longer.I want the dust to be taken off and people to play music." Archbishop John Sentamu
Posts: 109 | From: Rochester | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
FreeJack
Shipmate
# 10612
|
Posted
Well Elaine Storkey probably wouldn't get an interview...
How about Charles Read?
Posts: 3588 | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
BroJames
Shipmate
# 9636
|
Posted
This recent blog post from Simon Vibert is as interesting for what it doesn't say as for anything that it does. While one could hardly expect any detailed comment about ES and the Goddards it does look like a dramatic piece of airbrushing!
[ 07. March 2008, 19:44: Message edited by: BroJames ]
Posts: 3374 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Arrietty
Ship's borrower
# 45
|
Posted
Why is Richard Turnbull writing on Simon Vibert's blog? Is Simon Vibert his sock puppet?
You have to admire the chutzpah of someone in his position who can sum up the last year by saying
quote:
a number of improvements have been made to our staff structure, to ensure that we, as a leading theological college, continue to uphold the highest level of academic standards, whilst equipping men and women for modern Christian Ministry
Maybe he's hoping for the 'Dallas' solution where all the nasty bits turn out to have been a dream.
[ 07. March 2008, 22:48: Message edited by: Arrietty ]
--------------------
i-church
Online Mission and Ministry
Posts: 6634 | From: Coventry, UK | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
FreeJack
Shipmate
# 10612
|
Posted
I should imagine that Vibert is just quoting the 'press/student release' on his blog because Turnbull hasn't got one.
They can't easily refer to the cases before the courts, even if they wanted to.
Posts: 3588 | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Arrietty
Ship's borrower
# 45
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by FreeJack:
They can't easily refer to the cases before the courts, even if they wanted to.
Yes, but if I were, say, in the middle of a messy divorce based on my alleged misbehaviour, it might look a little economical with the truth if I sent out a Christmas round robin saying 'recent adjustments in our relationship have left Fred's and my marriage in better shape than ever'.
[ 08. March 2008, 14:04: Message edited by: Arrietty ]
--------------------
i-church
Online Mission and Ministry
Posts: 6634 | From: Coventry, UK | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Nightlamp
Shipmate
# 266
|
Posted
They really say something like 'Despite the significant staffing issues and mistakes made by different people the college as a community is thriving and we can see God at work in the life of everyone here'.
A positive spin on a bad situation is better than ignoring it.
--------------------
I don't know what you are talking about so it couldn't have been that important- Nightlamp
Posts: 8442 | From: Midlands | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Arrietty
Ship's borrower
# 45
|
Posted
I think if I had been unfairly dismissed I might feel it was a bit more than spin to see that represented as something which had improved the staffing structure and increased its upheld its academic standards.
--------------------
i-church
Online Mission and Ministry
Posts: 6634 | From: Coventry, UK | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
BroJames
Shipmate
# 9636
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nightlamp:
They really say something like 'Despite the significant staffing issues and mistakes made by different people the college as a community is thriving and we can see God at work in the life of everyone here'.
A positive spin on a bad situation is better than ignoring it.
Where do they do this, Nightlamp? They don't make any reference to any problems at all. Or did you mean to put "They really should say..."?
Posts: 3374 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Nightlamp
Shipmate
# 266
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by BroJames:
Or did you mean to put "They really should say..."?
Ooops, yes, a vital should was missing.
--------------------
I don't know what you are talking about so it couldn't have been that important- Nightlamp
Posts: 8442 | From: Midlands | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Qupe
Shipmate
# 12388
|
Posted
So the question is - my question, anyway - for a would-be ordinand such as myself, is Wycliffe off the menu for the time being? Is it somewhere people can learn and grow etc etc (esp. if, like myself, they don't fit the Con-Evo mould)?
--------------------
'Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.'
Posts: 802 | From: Down the road from the chocolate factory | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Printer-friendly view
