|
Source: (consider it)
|
Thread: US election aftermath
|
Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
|
Posted
It has never been clear how Tiny Fingers's maunderings tracked with real life. I suppose we must applaud, when his Cabinet nominees hew to reality rather than wandering off into the Land of Dream.
--------------------
Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
| IP: Logged
|
|
cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
quote:
Also, Buzzfeed does suck, and is not a credible news source. They are click bait writers, nothing more. No matter how many times Trump says this, it will remain true.
The more I think about the allegations from that dossier, the less it all adds up.
Is it supposed to be just a coincidence that, having already put himself in hock to Russian banks, Trump further compromised his dealings with that country by paying prostitutes to urinate on Obama's bed in a bugged hotel room? I suppose it's possible that we have two separate "streams" of compromise going, in regards to the same country, but, like I say, it seems like a bit of a coincidence.
Plus, the whole scenario just sounds like something out of a Grade B sex-farce, a reject from Blake Edwards' script pile. My guess is that some enterprising literary craftsman, aware of the rumours about Trump's relations with Russia, made up the story in the hopes of selling it to a tabloid(or something similar), but it got into general circulation, eventually picked up by the British intelligence flack the Republicans hired to dig up dirt on Trump.
If they had caught Pence is a sexcapade-- yes, sure. Because he'd likely be ashamed/embarrassed by such a scandal. But Trump is likely to ask for you to send him the photos of him romping with the hookers so he can get them blown up for his Xmas cards. So no, I agree, not likely to have happened, or if it did, unlikely to have been the subject of blackmail.
The sexcapades are just a cover up for the real financial misdoings, the real and quite serious conflict of interest between Trump's financial self-interest and that of his associates, particularly Rex T and the very significant cash to be acquired by them if sanctions against Russia are lifted. Indeed, I'm wondering if we'll have Trump showing much interest in any of the rest of it-- Obamacare, immigration, LGBTQ rights, whatever-- once he gets that vital bit of business squared away. Oh, sure, he'll support whatever he needs to to get the Republican Congress to vote for lifting sanctions, but I doubt he cares much about any of it or will spend any amount of time drafting legislation or advocating for it.
--------------------
"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
The sexcapades are just a cover up for the real financial misdoings, the real and quite serious conflict of interest between Trump's financial self-interest and that of his associates,
The word "cover up" suggests to me that you think this was an inside job. Are you suggesting that the GOP or Trump is intentionally leaking juicy stories to distract from other more serious but less entertaining acts?
Interesting idea if true. Maybe Trump is a useful idiot who can be counted on to stir up a media frenzy about minor details while the people pulling the strings get away with murder.
--------------------
"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
|
Posted
That said, Occam tells me that the intelligence community is pissed at Trump for calling them idiots and retaliated by leaking the story.
--------------------
"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
That said, Occam tells me that the intelligence community is pissed at Trump for calling them idiots and retaliated by leaking the story.
I don't think the two theories are mutually exclusive.
--------------------
"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Alt Wally
Cardinal Ximinez
# 3245
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pangolin Guerre:
Your comment on not underestimating anything, because you recognise that Russian and the US have their national interests, shows that you are. A large motivating factor in current Russian thought is not merely a pursuit of rational national interest, an extension of ‘soft influence’ over the 'near abroad', but mounting a serious challenge to NATO, either through direct intervention, as in Crimea and eastern Ukraine, or economically, through gas and oil exports, as they have also done in past.
I think General Mattis said as much in his confirmation hearing today. Whatever Trump personally believes, his pick for Secretary of Defense is adhering to what I would consider the view of the traditional right about Russia (and the left now I guess based on what I'm reading in this thread???). I don't agree Russia is the top threat, but I do think General Mattis is a great pick for the position.
Posts: 3684 | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
That said, Occam tells me that the intelligence community is pissed at Trump for calling them idiots and retaliated by leaking the story.
I don't think the two theories are mutually exclusive.
You're going to have to explain.
--------------------
"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Barnabas62
Host
# 9110
|
Posted
Alt Wally
General Mattis looked like good news to me on a whole load of defence issues. I don't think it matters whether your politics lean to the left or the right. The covert interference by Russia, under 'very senior direction', in the US Presidential election, demands a very strong response from the US. Mattis's summary seemed spot on to me. The range of issues over which there can be bilateral co-operation is decreasing, the range of issues requiring confrontation is increasing. Trump's responses so far have been wholly inappropriate when faced with the reality of Putin's intentions and behaviour.
Are we looking at a return to the Cold War? It depends whether Putin can be persuaded that it is in his interests to back off.
--------------------
Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
W Hyatt
Shipmate
# 14250
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
It occurs to me that the claims about Russia have deflected attention from the rather more substantiated problems with Trump's business interests. That was after all the original point of the press conference.
Do we think Trump is going to keep separate in his mind what he thinks is the right political decision for the US or the world, and what he thinks is the right financial decision for himself?
Trump says he can. Are you saying we can't take Trump's word for it?
Of course we can. We're supposed to believe anyone who agrees with Trump, such as Putin about Russia not hacking the DNC. And since Trump often agrees with himself, at least for short periods of time, of course we're supposed to believe him. And once he stops agreeing with himself, we should take that as a sign that it doesn't matter any longer, like Obama's citizenship. Either that or we should take it as a sign that it's time to try listening to his heart instead of his words.
--------------------
A new church and a new earth, with Spiritual Insights for Everyday Life.
Posts: 1565 | From: U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
That said, Occam tells me that the intelligence community is pissed at Trump for calling them idiots and retaliated by leaking the story.
I don't think the two theories are mutually exclusive.
You're going to have to explain.
It's entirely possible that the intelligence community is doing exactly as you suggest-- leaking what they think will be embarrassing info re Trump (whether or not the Man With No Shame actually finds it embarrassing, who knows?). It's also possible that at the same time, the Trump admin. is delighted to have the salacious distraction from the much, much more serious questions that were raised by Congress today about the very serious conflicts of interest both of Trump and of Tillerson. After all, it seemed to work out very very well for him in the election.
--------------------
"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096
|
Posted
Trying to think of something you could blackmail Trump about: I'm thinking vision of him murdering someone with a big knife instead of a gun.
--------------------
Human
Posts: 1571 | From: Romsey, Vic, AU | Registered: May 2014
| IP: Logged
|
|
Barnabas62
Host
# 9110
|
Posted
Oh, I'm sure he has loads of skeletons in his cupboard.
On the smokescreen issue, I reckon Trump is good at wrongfooting people; any of us might be taken aback by the ugliness of his behaviour. He really isn't normal. In some ways he reminds me of the late Robert Maxwell.
--------------------
Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
|
Posted
I think peole here are somewhat hyperbolizing Trump's capacity for shamelessness. Remember, when the "Grab 'em by the *****" interview was revealed, he admitted to uttering the words in question, but denied that he had ever done the activities described, instead claiming it was just meaningless macho bragging.
re: the Moscow hotel dossier, I think even Trump would know that auric sprinkles in a possibly bugged hotel room is bad for his image, and would deny it, even if he had done it.
This post is in response to the argument that Trump couldn't have done those things, because if he had, he'd be bragging about it. I think it IS the case that he didn't do those things, but not because of his lack of bragging. Rather, it's just that the stories sound rather contrived; paint-by-numbers tabloid fodder, to mix a couple of metaphors there.
--------------------
I have the power...Lucifer is lord!
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Barnabas62
Host
# 9110
|
Posted
I think it's quite difficult to be hyperbolic about Trump, particularly his tweets. Hillary is 'as guilty as Hell' apparently. Whereas he is just, demonstrably, a really nasty piece of work. A complete asshole.
--------------------
Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
|
Posted
Cliffdweller- got it. I think I was reading more into "cover-up" than you intended.
I doubt that all of the stories in the dossier will ever be confirmed, but apparently the FBI is taking the source seriously because he has provided solid intel in the past- in fact, it was information that he had gathered and shared with the FBI that lead to the Justice Department's investigation of FIFA and the eventual fall of "comically corrupt" Sep Blatter.
--------------------
"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
|
Posted
Forgive me if this has already been asked - there's rather a lot of this thread to check, and I haven't read it all. However, has there ever before been a President where impeachment has been discussed even before his Inauguration?
--------------------
Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
|
Posted
For those who are trying to keep track of the various Trump administration-in-waiting scandals, here are two more.
Michael Flynn and the Russian phone calls:
quote:
Retired Lt. Gen. Michael T. Flynn, Trump’s choice for national security adviser, cultivates close Russian contacts. He has appeared on Russia Today and received a speaking fee from the cable network, which was described in last week’s unclassified intelligence briefing on Russian hacking as “the Kremlin’s principal international propaganda outlet.”
According to a senior U.S. government official, Flynn phoned Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak several times on Dec. 29, the day the Obama administration announced the expulsion of 35 Russian officials as well as other measures in retaliation for the hacking. What did Flynn say, and did it undercut the U.S. sanctions? The Logan Act (though never enforced) bars U.S. citizens from correspondence intending to influence a foreign government about “disputes” with the United States. Was its spirit violated? The Trump campaign didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment.
For those who are unclear on this, the U.S. has a State Department that's supposed to handle contacts with foreign governments relating to American policy. Flynn is still a private citizen with no official standing.
Then there's the case of the (possibly) illegal campaign contributions [PDF]. The FEC has sent the treasurer of Trump's campaign a 256 page letter detailing what it says are campaign contributions that, as filed, appear to violate campaign finance law. A response is required by Valentine's Day (the FEC is nothing if not romantic!) and "requests for extensions of time in which to respond will not be considered" (the FEC is nothing if not strictly punctual!). Some of these illegal contributions may actually be data entry or filing errors but we'll find out soon enough.
--------------------
Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
Forgive me if this has already been asked - there's rather a lot of this thread to check, and I haven't read it all. However, has there ever before been a President where impeachment has been discussed even before his Inauguration?
There were discussions of impeaching Hillary Clinton before the election!
quote:
Chairmen of two congressional committees said in media interviews this week they believe Clinton committed impeachable offenses in setting up and using a private email server for official State Department business.
And a third senior Republican, the chairman of a House Judiciary subcommittee, told The Washington Post he is personally convinced Clinton should be impeached for influence peddling involving her family foundation. He favors further congressional investigation into that matter.
--------------------
Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
|
Posted
OK - had forgotten that. Has that happened before, or was it exceptional?
However, once a candidate has won, I thought the done thing was for the ground to settle and everyone to rally round. Is it a new thing for folk to be talking about impeaching a President-elect?
--------------------
Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
|
Posted
There are always cries for "rallying around" in the name of "unity" and always those who will resist doing so. Despite so many elections, some going my way and some not, this is the first time I am among those who are resisting. This is not the time for "rallying around" under some false guise of "unity". This is a time for courage and for resistance.
--------------------
"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
Forgive me if this has already been asked - there's rather a lot of this thread to check, and I haven't read it all. However, has there ever before been a President where impeachment has been discussed even before his Inauguration?
While impeachment wasn't on the menu, many didn't "rally-round" Barack Obama once he had been elected. All kinds of things were mooted as devices to prevent him taking office.
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096
|
Posted
I heard one of the artists who is appearing at the Inauguration has been vilified, including savage online vilification. This is not on, America. Save it for his administration.
I do admit that I was hurt and disappointed by Meryl Streep's decision to play Thatcher. I said some nasty things about her to my wife.
--------------------
Human
Posts: 1571 | From: Romsey, Vic, AU | Registered: May 2014
| IP: Logged
|
|
no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
|
Posted
It would probably be justifiable in an eye for an eye manner to boycott etc. Given trump's mistreatment of a female reporter the point she received death threats, denigrating a disabled man by mimicking him, generally villifying entire ethnic and national groups. And sexual assault. etc. There is a difference between sickening and dangerous, and if you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem, to revive things said a half-century ago.
As for Streep, you've got the wrong side of it. She provided an eloquent statement of only one of trump's sins, without even naming him. And did it well, with personal reflection and genuine feeling.
Probably next time trump rudely says "fake news", the response should be "fake election", much as we respond "and also with you" to a leader in a different context who says "the lord be with you".
--------------------
Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
It would probably be justifiable in an eye for an eye manner to boycott etc.
No, eye for an eye would be telling slanderous lies over & over again, taking away life-sustaining medical care and then laughing and high-fiving one another over it, tossing his foreign-born wife out of the country.
No, boycotting is NOT "eye for an eye"-- it is simply an honorable and respectable form of protest. It is saying "I refuse to support or participate in this." That's an appropriate response.
--------------------
"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
|
Posted
Alright then. I have dispensation to follow my instincts. Which turn out to be better than than worse. Grateful am I.
--------------------
Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Probably next time trump rudely says "fake news", the response should be "fake election".
Oh, I like that. I hope it catches on.
--------------------
"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Barnabas62
Host
# 9110
|
Posted
If I were a US citizen, I would be following Rep. John Lewis. Twice.
I couldn't rally round Donald Trump. "It is the FIRST responsibility of every citizen to question authority."
--------------------
Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
|
Posted
It's just now hitting me that this is really going to happen.
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Barnabas62
Host
# 9110
|
Posted
Trump's tweets re John Lewis are further evidence of his complete lack of both wisdom and class.
--------------------
Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
I do admit that I was hurt and disappointed by Meryl Streep's decision to play Thatcher. I said some nasty things about her to my wife.
For some reason no one is ever "hurt and disappointed" about an actor's decision to play the lead in Shakespeare's Richard III, despite the fact that the character is a murderous tyrant.
--------------------
Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
Trump's tweets re John Lewis are further evidence of his complete lack of both wisdom and class.
As well as massive projection. He claims Lewis is "all talk and no action"? In the 60s Lewis was marching with MLK and nearly giving his life for the cause. Trump was floundering in school and getting charged with racial discrimination in housing.
--------------------
"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
I do admit that I was hurt and disappointed by Meryl Streep's decision to play Thatcher. I said some nasty things about her to my wife.
For some reason no one is ever "hurt and disappointed" about an actor's decision to play the lead in Shakespeare's Richard III, despite the fact that the character is a murderous tyrant.
This could be because Richard III has been dead for centuries, and Maggie Thatcher was destroying people's lives within living memory.
--------------------
This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
|
Posted
trump advocates closer relations with Russia. Why is no one asking if this is because he is a double agent, blackmailed by Putin? It is hardly more startling that trumpy's birther Muslim claim re Obama.
--------------------
Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
trump advocates closer relations with Russia. Why is no one asking if this is because he is a double agent, blackmailed by Putin?
No one? Pretty much everyone is asking this.
--------------------
"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Barnabas62
Host
# 9110
|
Posted
cliffdweller
If the antics during the transition have demonstrated anything, it is that the PEOTUS is a total sleaze. I wonder how long it will take for the penny to drop for the 40% or so Trump 'loyalists'. They've been conned.
--------------------
Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
|
Posted
Not everyone believes that our late liege lord, Richard III, was a 'murderous tyrant':
http://www.richardiii.net/
Maybe one day, years hence (after the nuclear winter), there'll be a Donald Trump Society.
Assuming there's any record left of his term in office...
IJ
--------------------
Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
trump advocates closer relations with Russia. Why is no one asking if this is because he is a double agent, blackmailed by Putin? It is hardly more startling that trumpy's birther Muslim claim re Obama.
I'm pretty sure a lot of people are asking this.
--------------------
Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
nickel
Shipmate
# 8363
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
Trying to think of something you could blackmail Trump about: I'm thinking vision of him murdering someone with a big knife instead of a gun.
His tax returns, apparently.
Posts: 547 | From: Virginia USA | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Probably next time trump rudely says "fake news", the response should be "fake election".
Oh, I like that. I hope it catches on.
I don't. Where's the evidence it was fake?
--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
|
Posted
Probably wasn't fake.
Driven by racism, misogyny, xenophobia*... but not likely fake.
*No, not everyone, but a lot more than people will likely admit.
--------------------
I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Barnabas62
Host
# 9110
|
Posted
Well, external interference with malevolent intent is now established. It is no longer a matter just of suspicion. What has not been established is collusion between the Russians and the Trump campaign, but the ongoing denigration of Hillary Clinton was clearly a major objective of both the Trump campaign and the external interference.
John Lewis is not just shooting the breeze.
--------------------
Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Probably next time trump rudely says "fake news", the response should be "fake election".
Oh, I like that. I hope it catches on.
I don't. Where's the evidence it was fake?
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif) Ironic eh?
--------------------
Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Not everyone believes that our late liege lord, Richard III, was a 'murderous tyrant':
http://www.richardiii.net/
IJ
I thought that at first too, but then realized that Crœsos referred to Shakespeare's character, and not the historical king. Shakespeare had to make him out to be much worse than he probably was, since Henry VII's granddaughter was sitting on the throne and possibly in the audience.
--------------------
"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Probably next time trump rudely says "fake news", the response should be "fake election".
Oh, I like that. I hope it catches on.
I don't. Where's the evidence it was fake?
Congress is investigating that very thing as we speak.
--------------------
"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
Well, external interference with malevolent intent is now established. It is no longer a matter just of suspicion. What has not been established is collusion between the Russians and the Trump campaign, but the ongoing denigration of Hillary Clinton was clearly a major objective of both the Trump campaign and the external interference.
Well exactly. Collusion matters.
Because, as I've just been pointing out recently in Hell, people try to influence elections all the time.
To be honest I find some of the hoo-ha slightly bemusing. There's no question that Trump being overly friendly with the Russians is of tremendous political concern, but exactly what constitutes illegal interference with an election?
It can't merely be trying to influence voters. People spend millions trying to influence voters, and US law does very little to curtail it. Does trying to influence voters suddenly become illegal if you're foreign? Interesting question, I haven't seen anyone referring to a law about that, and if so I've broken it every time I expressed my opinion on US politics during the election campaign.
Is it just a political standard where Americans are just fine with America trying to influence the world, but are uncomfortable with the world trying to influence America?
I don't doubt that some of this stuff could be politically toxic in the extreme, but in my book political toxicity doesn't equal not being "legitimate". To me, "legitimate" has to do with having won an election where the votes were fairly and correctly counted and people were not wrongly prevented from voting.
Given the law does nothing to prevent people voting for all sorts of crazy reasons, and apparently does nothing to sanction politicians themselves from influencing votes with a pile of lies and half-truths, it's not obvious to me that Russians lying to Americans to affect their vote is inherently worse than Americans lying to Americans to affect their vote.
--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Probably next time trump rudely says "fake news", the response should be "fake election".
Oh, I like that. I hope it catches on.
I don't. Where's the evidence it was fake?
Ironic eh?
It would only be ironic if I actually approved of Trump using the term "fake news". Two wrongs don't make a right.
--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Palimpsest
Shipmate
# 16772
|
Posted
The new Trump administration has announced the six prayer leaders who will pray at the inauguration. They include a Cardinal, a rabbi, and four conservative ministers who supported him during the campaign. They seem to be of the "Prosperity Gospel" sort that think that wealth is a mark of God's approval.
Any comments or is this what should be expected?
Posts: 2990 | From: Seattle WA. US | Registered: Nov 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
I do admit that I was hurt and disappointed by Meryl Streep's decision to play Thatcher. I said some nasty things about her to my wife.
For some reason no one is ever "hurt and disappointed" about an actor's decision to play the lead in Shakespeare's Richard III, despite the fact that the character is a murderous tyrant.
Shakespeare's Richard III was a fictional Character, but the terrible Thatcher was frighteningly real. My great fear was that the film about Thatcher was going to be a hagiography. I understand it wasn't. My wife, when it was on telly, called me in to watch the bit about Thatcher's descent into senility. That was good.
--------------------
Human
Posts: 1571 | From: Romsey, Vic, AU | Registered: May 2014
| IP: Logged
|
|
Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
|
Posted
Shakespeare's Richard III was indeed a product of pro-Tudor propaganda, which perhaps just goes to show the power of 'spin'....
....and that we are all - Trump (especially) included - a miserable company of poor, perishing sinners.
![[Waterworks]](graemlins/bawling.gif)
IJ
--------------------
Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Printer-friendly view
