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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Oops - your Trump presidency discussion thread
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
I imagine the cunning Mexicans (Bad Hombres though they be) will somehow find a way to screw the US of A for simply pointing the wall at them.
I had forgot that the Great, Big, Hyuuuge, Beautiful Wall will not, of course, straddle the border, but does that not mean that there will be, in places, a sort of No Hombres' Land between real Mexico and the Wall?
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Running a corporation is a totally different skill than running a government department.
Yes, it is. But Trump doesn't think so. Trump is trying to "run" the US the way he runs his business.
So, it would be better off if he left it in autopilot and stepped away, just as his businesses would have been.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Barnabas62
Host
# 9110
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Posted
And in other news he didn't tape Comey.
BUT
Maybe there are things about the White House Routine administration that he hasn't found out yet ...
Shouldn't think Comey is bothered either way.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
I had forgot that the Great, Big, Hyuuuge, Beautiful Wall will not, of course, straddle the border, but does that not mean that there will be, in places, a sort of No Hombres' Land between real Mexico and the Wall?
Like the Anti-Fascist Protection Rampart, Trump's putative wall will theoretically be built entirely on the territory of the constructing government, not the land of those it's trying to keep out. There are some complications here, though. For example, the border between Texas and Mexico is the Rio Grande. In addition to all of the construction difficulties associated with building anything on a river bank, there's the problem of "walling off" U.S. access to the river. El Paso and Laredo, to name two obvious examples, use the Rio Grande to supply their municipal water. Having an impenetrable barrier in the way seems problematic.
Of course, I suspect that The Wall will be purely rhetorical. Or possibly a lot of public money will be appropriated and disappear mysteriously into several New Jersey based construction companies with nothing physical to show for it. It's very easy to put solar panels on it if all you have to do is verbally stipulate them.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
I'm sure you're right, and that Orange Ozymandias (who did, or did not, tape Comey) is full of Hot Air.
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Barnabas62
Host
# 9110
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Posted
I know he's signed loads of Executive Orders. But has he actually managed to implement successfully any of his major pre-election promises?
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
No. Not that his base has really noticed, even though the promise was to do All This Stuff in the first 100 days. A little thing like Lyin' Don's promises won't affect his true fans.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
I know he's signed loads of Executive Orders. But has he actually managed to implement successfully any of his major pre-election promises?
Well, ICE and CBP seem to have really stepped up their enforcement, both in terms of numbers and abusiveness. The Justice Department has reversed the Obama administration decision to stop using private prisons and Jeff Sessions has re-energized the War on [some classes of people who use certain types of] Drugs. This would seem to be in line with Trump's promise to be a 'law and order' president.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
I imagine the cunning Mexicans (Bad Hombres though they be) will somehow find a way to screw the US of A for simply pointing the wall at them.
I had forgot that the Great, Big, Hyuuuge, Beautiful Wall will not, of course, straddle the border, but does that not mean that there will be, in places, a sort of No Hombres' Land between real Mexico and the Wall?
IJ
Yes. In fact, some trump supporters have recently learned that
their property would be among those parcels falling on the wrong side of the wall. Assuming the south side is the "wrong" side-- not such a certainty these days
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
cliffdweller: quote:
Yes. In fact, some trump supporters have recently learned that
their property would be among those parcels falling on the wrong side of the wall.
![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif) You can't make omelettes without breaking eggs. Suck it up, buttercups.
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
Under the open mouth, insert foot, swallow hard category, today Trump admitted he was using the threats of tapes in order to influence Comey's testimony before Congress.
He was sued for making the same threats in his real estate ventures. He lost that suit.
DT just does not know what obstruction of justice entails. He has now publicly admitted it.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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Huia
Shipmate
# 3473
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Posted
Maybe he's planning to make the Mexicans pay for the solar panels too ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Huia
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Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.
Posts: 10382 | From: Te Wai Pounamu | Registered: Oct 2002
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Ah yes, so that his supporters on the wrong side of the Wall get Free Electricity!
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
Have we shared the video of Vicente Fox, former President of Mexico, here yet? [Warning -- he uses a couple of words that you might not want played out loud if you're at work or around small children.] But it's hilarious!
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
Have we shared the video of Vicente Fox, former President of Mexico, here yet? [Warning -- he uses a couple of words that you might not want played out loud if you're at work or around small children.] But it's hilarious!
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
Much of what is directed against the Flaming Mad Cheeto is amusing only because we do not like him.
I don't care who you are, that was just funny.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
I don't know about that, but I think this is surgically incisive humour at its finest.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
Why is there so much discussion on a wall that will not be built? We really do not hear much about it in the American press.
Congress will not pass such a project.
Property owners along the path will fight it. Environmentalists will also take Trump to court.
It will be tied up in the court system longer than Trump will be present.
Trending in American press, regarding Trump is his stumbling admission that there was indeed Russian interference in the American election (He denies any evidence of it, but then says Obama should have stopped it)
There is also his alleged involvement with Russian financiers.
Simply put. The wall is not going to happen.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Point taken but I think it's the sheer, unadulterated, HYUUUGE, bizarreness of the whole concept of a Wall that captures the attention (and imagination) of an island race!
Actually, of course, we have a couple of Walls of our own, to protect us from the wild Picts and Scots, and just look how successful they've been....
...och aye, Ah'll get ma bonnet the noo, an put it on ma heid....
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
The wall is useful because it is the quintessential example of the lies that Lyin' Don tells, knowing full well from the outset that there is no way they can ever come true. Fact does not slow him down in the slightest, and you can hardly get a better example of his fantabulization. Even his most devout follower must have known, on some level, that the wall was impossible (The Mexicans to pay for it, yeah right) but they were able to suppress or ignore that knowledge. Everyone collaborated on the lie because it fed their prejudices.
[ 25. June 2017, 16:22: Message edited by: Brenda Clough ]
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
knowing full well from the outset that there is no way they can ever come true.
This assumes more thought than appears to be put into anything he says. He just says shit.
quote:
Fact does not slow him down in the slightest,
Fact is not even part of the equation when he utters what passes for a thought.
quote:
Everyone collaborated on the lie because it fed their prejudices.
Some of this, yes. But I think it more complicated than this. However, whatever the motive, most of it is delusional.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
So the Emperor has not only no Clothes, but also no Wall?
Poor, benighted chap. You couldn't make it up.
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
I am willing to bet that there will never be a wall. There will be caterwauling about it, but not one brick will ever be laid on another.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Point taken but I think it's the sheer, unadulterated, HYUUUGE, bizarreness of the whole concept of a Wall that captures the attention (and imagination) of an island race!
Actually, of course, we have a couple of Walls of our own, to protect us from the wild Picts and Scots, and just look how successful they've been....
...och aye, Ah'll get ma bonnet the noo, an put it on ma heid....
IJ
And the Welsh. Don't forget them. Bloody Tudors. Couldn't keep them out.
I have a recollection of seeing some sort of barrier near US towns that abut the southern border. Very ugly. I would not like it if I lived there. But then again, I wouldn't live there because of the heat.
All in all it's just another brick in the wall.
Oh, thanks to Croesos for punching out the numbers on the Georgia 6 special election. It was indeed a glorious outcome for the Dems and bodes well for next year.
How does each major party choose their candidates for Congress? Are there local selection committees for each seat, with the big folks coming in to dictate terms if the locals choose a squib?
[ 26. June 2017, 05:06: Message edited by: simontoad ]
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Human
Posts: 1571 | From: Romsey, Vic, AU | Registered: May 2014
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
I am willing to bet that there will never be a wall. There will be caterwauling about it, but not one brick will ever be laid on another.
There actually is a wall. It does not cover the entire border. I would not be surprised if more is constructed or a section built higher. Not a completed structure, just enough to satisfy his base.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
I am willing to bet that there will never be a wall. There will be caterwauling about it, but not one brick will ever be laid on another.
There actually is a wall. It does not cover the entire border. I would not be surprised if more is constructed or a section built higher. Not a completed structure, just enough to satisfy his base.
Yep - a big deal will be made of it all, but it'll actually be a small section where there's already a wall
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
How does each major party choose their candidates for Congress? Are there local selection committees for each seat, with the big folks coming in to dictate terms if the locals choose a squib? [/QB]
It depends on the jurisdiction. The local party gets to decide how to select a candidate. Where I live (Virginia) the state GOP has been arguing for years, whether a primary is better than a nominating convention. A primary means that people get to vote and choose a candidate. The convention means that only people at the convention get to choose, a smaller pool of deciders. This has led to calamity a few years ago, when they selected a moron -- the guy was utterly defeated in the general election in November. So now they're doing primaries, but there's a die-hard group insisting that conventions are better.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
Oh, thanks to Croesos for punching out the numbers on the Georgia 6 special election. It was indeed a glorious outcome for the Dems and bodes well for next year.
Are we talking about the same dems who have spent most of the last decade getting their teeth kicked in?
By the measure of the GA-6, even if they had $25 million to spend on every race, they would still lose...
Hysterical opposition as a party platform will not be effective in 2018. Absent a coherent message I won't be surprised to see them lose more seats...
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Lack of a coherent message worked for Trump
ETA: That wasn't fair. Racism acts as a cement for all the lies and contradiction, it would seem.
[ 26. June 2017, 17:48: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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stonespring
Shipmate
# 15530
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Posted
Does the data show how useful all the money Democrats poured into the Georgia special election was in improving the Democratic share of the vote and Democratic turnout, even if it did not win the election. We know that the Democratic share of the vote was greatly improved, but is there any way people can examine how much of that improvement was due to all the money spent on the campaign (did the Dems greatly outspend the GOP)? And also the effectiveness specifically of advertising (and in particular television advertising) bought with that money?
Posts: 1537 | Registered: Mar 2010
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Lack of a coherent message worked for Trump
ETA: That wasn't fair. Racism acts as a cement for all the lies and contradiction, it would seem.
Yeah, they should stick with racism, Russia, and Pelosi...that'll be a winner for sure! I can't decide which of those is more tired and meaningless.
Meanwhile SCOTUS upholds the travel ban, and the rumbles continue regarding Kennedy's retirement. A second appointment in the Gorsuch model would cement Trump's legacy just months into his first term.
The d's are completely impotent, it seems.
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
Yeah, they should stick with racism, Russia,
Those are Republican't strong suite. Well, they don't own racism. Teabaggers and other libertarian groups seem to like it just fine.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
How does each major party choose their candidates for Congress? Are there local selection committees for each seat, with the big folks coming in to dictate terms if the locals choose a squib?
It depends on the jurisdiction. The local party gets to decide how to select a candidate. Where I live (Virginia) the state GOP has been arguing for years, whether a primary is better than a nominating convention. A primary means that people get to vote and choose a candidate. The convention means that only people at the convention get to choose, a smaller pool of deciders. This has led to calamity a few years ago, when they selected a moron -- the guy was utterly defeated in the general election in November. So now they're doing primaries, but there's a die-hard group insisting that conventions are better. [/QB]
cheers. Not much point in branch-stacking then...
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Human
Posts: 1571 | From: Romsey, Vic, AU | Registered: May 2014
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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
Oh, thanks to Croesos for punching out the numbers on the Georgia 6 special election. It was indeed a glorious outcome for the Dems and bodes well for next year.
Are we talking about the same dems who have spent most of the last decade getting their teeth kicked in?
By the measure of the GA-6, even if they had $25 million to spend on every race, they would still lose...
Hysterical opposition as a party platform will not be effective in 2018. Absent a coherent message I won't be surprised to see them lose more seats...
The politics I can understand. It's the moral position of those on the right in the USA that I don't get. Why do they support laws that result in the rich getting richer? Why don't they want to provide universal healthcare? Why are they so opposed to socialism, sneering it like its a dirty word. Why don't they want to fix gun crime in America? Why do they hate not just politicians, but bureaucrats?
I just don't get that stuff. I'd like to try and understand it from you, because I reckon most people don't give a flying feck for theories.
Have a whiskey or two before you post. I want the honesty that only alcohol can provide.
[ 27. June 2017, 08:13: Message edited by: simontoad ]
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Human
Posts: 1571 | From: Romsey, Vic, AU | Registered: May 2014
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
It's the moral position of those on the right in the USA that I don't get. Why do they support laws that result in the rich getting richer? Why don't they want to provide universal healthcare? Why are they so opposed to socialism, sneering it like its a dirty word. Why don't they want to fix gun crime in America? Why do they hate not just politicians, but bureaucrats?
The best explanation I've read is Stigginit: quote:
the practice of some conservatives who engage in a practice not because of merit or self interest, but merely because the practice is opposed by a liberal, especially in those cases where the practice is clearly against one's self interest.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
The politics I can understand. It's the moral position of those on the right in the USA that I don't get.
Moral position It's all about the money, honey.
quote:
Why do they support laws that result in the rich getting richer?
Because they are rich and/or their campaigns are paid for by the rich.
quote:
Why don't they want to provide universal healthcare?
Insurance companies spend a lot of money lobbying.
quote:
Why are they so opposed to socialism, sneering it like its a dirty word.
Smokescreen. To sell the poor on supporting the rich, they demonise socialism.
quote:
Why don't they want to fix gun crime in America?
The NRA spend loads of money buying support.
quote:
Why do they hate not just politicians, but bureaucrats?
That is more complicated. But mostly because they implement the policies.
quote:
Have a whiskey or two before you post. I want the honesty that only alcohol can provide.
Alchohol does not induce truth. It reduces inhibition and clouds judgement. So...
[ 27. June 2017, 13:32: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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stonespring
Shipmate
# 15530
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
It's the moral position of those on the right in the USA that I don't get. Why do they support laws that result in the rich getting richer? Why don't they want to provide universal healthcare? Why are they so opposed to socialism, sneering it like its a dirty word. Why don't they want to fix gun crime in America? Why do they hate not just politicians, but bureaucrats?
The best explanation I've read is Stigginit: quote:
the practice of some conservatives who engage in a practice not because of merit or self interest, but merely because the practice is opposed by a liberal, especially in those cases where the practice is clearly against one's self interest.
The politics of spite are quite strong. There are also quite a few liberals here who would be much happier seeing Republicans shamed, embarrassed, indicted, convicted, etc. (although many Republicans may indeed deserve such things), than they would in seeing any constructive legislation passed.
There are a fair number of people in the bases of both sides (not the wealthiest financers of politicians, mind you, who do expect to get material benefits from what the government does or doesn't do) who do not expect government to do much to materially help them, but rather expect it to make them feel better by shaming and attacking the other side and the other punching bags their own political side shares (on the Right: intellectuals, liberal activists, secularists, immigrants, government benefit recipients (not counting old-age benefits, which magically are not seen as government benefits), Hollywood, the Mainstream Media, Muslims, unions, government employees, and people of color who bring up the fact that racial disparities remain enormous; on the Left: Wall Street, the 1% (completely ignoring the inequality-supporting policies supported by many of the Democrats in the top 20% of income), Russia, fossil fuels, Evangelicals (and Christians in general who talk about more than the love your neighbor and feed the poor parts of the Bible), Fox News and assorted conservative pundits, people who are enthusiastic about their guns, and stereotypical relatively-uneducated whites).
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
Those of you in the UK can possibly understand how a concerted PR effort can induce the crucial fraction of the electorate into voting for what is clearly and provably against their best interests.
You must also allow for the inherent racism and sexism built into American politics. Clinton was viciously pelted with all the code words applied to uppity women ('hysterical' and 'sickly' come to mind but there are millions more). Republicans declared that they would vote against anything Obama proposed simply because he proposed it, whether it was good or not. They missed a big bet in this effort to 'repeal and replace' Obamacare. (Polls have been done, going through the features of O-care; when you don't use the name the features are applauded.) If they had simply passed the exact same law again, only renaming it TrumpCare, then all would be well and Li'l Donny would be hailed as Christ returned to earth.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
![[Eek!]](eek.gif) I thought he already had been so hailed, at least by some...
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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stonespring
Shipmate
# 15530
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Those of you in the UK can possibly understand how a concerted PR effort can induce the crucial fraction of the electorate into voting for what is clearly and provably against their best interests.
You must also allow for the inherent racism and sexism built into American politics. Clinton was viciously pelted with all the code words applied to uppity women ('hysterical' and 'sickly' come to mind but there are millions more). Republicans declared that they would vote against anything Obama proposed simply because he proposed it, whether it was good or not. They missed a big bet in this effort to 'repeal and replace' Obamacare. (Polls have been done, going through the features of O-care; when you don't use the name the features are applauded.) If they had simply passed the exact same law again, only renaming it TrumpCare, then all would be well and Li'l Donny would be hailed as Christ returned to earth.
But then the Democrats would find a reason to hate this hypothetical Trumpcare formerly-known-as-Obamacare merely because the GOP passed it. Politics has become a spectator sport for a lot of people except it's not just about political teams winning and losing it's also about cultural tribes benefitting at the expense of the other in a game that is believed to be zero sum.
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
The politics I can understand. It's the moral position of those on the right in the USA that I don't get.
That's an awfully broad brush you wield there...and I would submit that the left in the USA are far and away the biggest moral tyrants in recent years.
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Why do they support laws that result in the rich getting richer?
Granting your premise for the purpose of discussion, why would I care if a rich person gets richer? Is there but one static pile of wealth available?
I am middle income, working class USAsian. I am a King on earth, wealthy beyond any reasonable proportion to the vast majority of my fellow earthlings. I don't resent avarice, I pity it...
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Why don't they want to provide universal healthcare?
Because they have seen the ambulances crossing Ambassador bridge carrying Canadian newborns to NICU beds in Detroit, they've seen the NHS, they've been in a DMV and they damned sure don't want to get their health care from the same service provider...
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Why are they so opposed to socialism, sneering it like its a dirty word.
Venezuela?
Along with the fact that they are pretty happy with the results of American capitalism...
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Why don't they want to fix gun crime in America?
Because the vast majority of gun crime victims in the US are people that no one gives a shit about, and any effort toward real solutions would require an honest dialog that certain segments of the population are simply not willing or prepared to have.
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Why do they hate not just politicians, but bureaucrats?
Have you dealt with the bureaucracy? That's why they hate bureaucrats...
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096
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Posted
Cheers mate. I'd like to get back to this, but probably tomorrow after work. I need to ruminate a bit.
Plus, I'd like to see the US launch a preemptive strike against Assad. They have the evidence of preparations, let's pop a few off at the bastard's family.
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Human
Posts: 1571 | From: Romsey, Vic, AU | Registered: May 2014
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Barnabas62
Host
# 9110
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Posted
Well, the 'awfully broad brush' comment was followed by loads of broad brushing. And there was some obviously ambiguous use of the word 'they'. Plus some pretty insensitive comments about murder victims and, by implication, those bereaved.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
I'd like to see the US launch a preemptive strike against Assad. They have the evidence of preparations, let's pop a few off at the bastard's family.
If only President Obama had had the resolve!
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
they've seen the NHS
The NHS is awesome. And a darn sight cheaper than the US healthcare system(s), I might add...
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
The point being that I doubt many have first-hand sight of the NHS. Most of the "seeing" of the NHS will have been done through Fox news.
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
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Posted
Yes, "seeing the mass media propaganda about the NHS" is not the same as "seeing the NHS". If you ever fall ill whilst on holiday on this side of the pond you might be pleasantly surprised, as this American doctor was.
And who do you think has been keeping Stephen Hawking alive all these years?
[ 28. June 2017, 12:40: Message edited by: Jane R ]
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
I have an American writer friend who went to France. In Paris he fell off a curb into the street. Broke two bones in his hand. Off to the hospital he went, where they stuck him together and put him into a sling. Then he braced himself for the real agony, the bill. They cast him a glance of pitying contempt. "This is -France-, monsieur," the doctor said. "There is no charge. Go home and get well." He will tell you himself, that the very same incident in Philadelphia would have cost, oh, well north of $10,000.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
If you ever fall ill whilst on holiday on this side of the pond you might be pleasantly surprised...
I was traveling in the U.K. with a friend who had a bad fall. We were both surprised by the excellent care and amazed that there was no charge, even for a foreigner.
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
/slight tangent/
That experience doesn't quite equate with that of my sister-in-law's father, who was taken ill (low blood pressure) whilst on holiday in France (I was one of the party). Ambulance called, off to hospital in a smallish country town, Pa in A & E, hospitalised overnight, tests, ECG etc. etc., all for the paltry sum of 25 euros on admission, and 50 euros on discharge (including the evening primrose oil foot massage, which he greatly enjoyed!). My s-in-l was able to claim back the 75 euros, which, for the excellence of the treatment received, was, as I say, a paltry amount.
Well done, France! Vive la Republique!
But, as a true-born Englishman (of Scottish/Irish and French ancestry), I have to say that the NHS is, indeed, awesome.
![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
I'm not entirely sure, but I don't think the French health system charges for injuries caused by accidents. The NHS has tightened up, but I think it is only non-emergency surgery which is charged for, and the various NHS trusts aren't too keen on trying to collect payments for that.
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arse
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