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Source: (consider it) Thread: Oops - your Trump presidency discussion thread
Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433

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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
The more, the merrier, so it is said.

Hopefully, Ozymandias will soon be reduced to the two vast and trunkless legs of stone...

IJ

Nice. And oh dear God yes please.

Though there may be need for us to wander in the Thwumpian wilderness with this demonic Ozymandias for a while yet. I've long argued that Thwump is God's judgement on the West / so-called Global North (not just the USA). The hair shirts may need a little more time out of the cupboard, alas, until those of us on the liberal-compassionate end of human politics learn to get off our fat chuffs and fight again.

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shameless self promotion - because I think it's worth it
and mayhap this too: http://broken-moments.blogspot.co.nz/

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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096

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quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
Thanks to John McCain. I'm so happy to have been so wrong.

Me too and I've been bad-mouthing McCain for many years. Maybe it is possible for people to change, maybe he's actually become the noble person he was only pretending to be for so long.
I am wondering whether there was a procedural reason why McCain voted yes to the motion to allow debate and then no on the substantive vote. My reason for wondering is that turtle-man (name escapes me right now) looked really gutted when the vote went down, like he'd been led to believe something that didn't happen.

Did the vote on the motion to allow debate start a clock ticking? Or perhaps there's a limited number of times a bill can be voted on in the senate?

I just got the impression that McConnell looked like he'd been dudded. Also, the Dem's reaction seemed a bit over the top for me, considering how many ways there must be to skin a Congressional cat. Maybe it was just typical American exuberance, but it was like McCain had scored a massive hit.

We have been talking about policies and campaign strategy for a while, but I think what happens after the election is also critical, particularly in the American system which I read somewhere was designed for compromise. I think McCain is right if he was saying that for the USA to get the right legal framework in place for prosperity and fairness, members of Congress need to be able to talk to each other. You can't just get a majority and ram your agenda through Congress like its possible to do under the Westminster system. You have to be able to do deals, which means you have to know the other side. You have to know who will give ground and where, and also where you will give ground too.

I suspect wily, tricky, slippery like an eel McCain is better suited to that deal-making environment. In this one, where there seems to be a wide gulf as well as personal enmity between the parties, McCain looks a bit off precisely because he is a fixer, a congressional rorter, and not a man to stand on his principles. I think Congress could use a few more like him.

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The opinions expressed above are transitory emotional responses and do not necessarily reflect the considered views of the author.

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mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
I suspect wily, tricky, slippery like an eel McCain is better suited to that deal-making environment. In this one, where there seems to be a wide gulf as well as personal enmity between the parties, McCain looks a bit off precisely because he is a fixer, a congressional rorter, and not a man to stand on his principles. I think Congress could use a few more like him.

According to Collins dictionary online, "rorter" means "a small-scale confidence trickster."

Is there another meaning they're not mentioning?

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God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. --Acts 10:28

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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

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I can't find the link for it now, drat it. But yes, it was important for McCain to do it that exact way. If he had voted 'no' the previous day (the one about refusing to allow debate) the bill was still alive and could have been brought back again later on, somehow. By voting it down at that exact point the bill cannot now be brought back under the 'budget reconciliation' banner, thus passing with 51 votes. It has to be brought back in the standard mode, which calls for 61 votes to pass. Which is to say it will never pass.

It's not dead yet -- there are ways to bring the zombie back to shamble down the streets still. But, if stalling can be achieved until this session of Congress is over, then it all resets. A new bill has to be proposed and pass through the House before it can go to the Senate.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Nick Tamen

Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164

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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
A new bill has to be proposed and pass through the House before it can go to the Senate.

Not quite. A new bill can start in and pass the Senate and then go to the House.

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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott

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Dave W.
Shipmate
# 8765

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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
I can't find the link for it now, drat it. But yes, it was important for McCain to do it that exact way. If he had voted 'no' the previous day (the one about refusing to allow debate) the bill was still alive and could have been brought back again later on, somehow. By voting it down at that exact point the bill cannot now be brought back under the 'budget reconciliation' banner, thus passing with 51 votes. It has to be brought back in the standard mode, which calls for 61 votes to pass. Which is to say it will never pass.

I don't think this is correct. The special rules for budget reconciliation can only be used once per fiscal year; reportedly, the Republicans planned to use this year's for health care and next year's for tax reform. But since they've yet to pass a plan, they're haven't yet used up this year's opportunity - if they can somehow round up 50 votes, they can try again.
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

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Apparently they can indeed put it back on the schedule or however you say it, and it'll be back. However, the current status cannot be encouraging and we may hope that another spine or two may grow among the GOP senators.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Barnabas62
Host
# 9110

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I came across this today.

It contains the following succint quote about Trump and his presidency.

quote:
to the 81% (typo corrected) of white evangelicals who voted for President Donald Trump, he declares:

You voted for a leader who has "zero moral compass."



[ 31. July 2017, 01:31: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

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From a Twitter feed, @BettyBowers: "Dear Fellow Republicans: It is so important to take every opportunity to remind other Americans that you are Christians. Otherwise, how would they ever guess?"

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096

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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
I suspect wily, tricky, slippery like an eel McCain is better suited to that deal-making environment. In this one, where there seems to be a wide gulf as well as personal enmity between the parties, McCain looks a bit off precisely because he is a fixer, a congressional rorter, and not a man to stand on his principles. I think Congress could use a few more like him.

According to Collins dictionary online, "rorter" means "a small-scale confidence trickster."

Is there another meaning they're not mentioning?

It's a bit pejorative, but it's essentially what I meant. I don't dispute the meaning at all. Maybe if I had called him a Congress Whisperer people would feel better about him?

Brenda, great tweet. [Killing me]

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The opinions expressed above are transitory emotional responses and do not necessarily reflect the considered views of the author.

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HCH
Shipmate
# 14313

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Something about recent events make me think of Rome a couple of thousand years back. Are we now in the period when the republic declines through civil war into empire, or are we already in the empire phase? In the latter case, is Trump to be viewed as Caligula or as Nero?
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Pangolin Guerre
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# 18686

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quote:
Originally posted by HCH:
Something about recent events make me think of Rome a couple of thousand years back. Are we now in the period when the republic declines through civil war into empire, or are we already in the empire phase? In the latter case, is Trump to be viewed as Caligula or as Nero?

I made that precise observation - I think on this thread. One who he certainly is not is Augustus. I'd go for Vitellius.
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

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It is argued that a more modest reboot of the entire GOP, purging all the current incumbents and replacing them with people who are not zombies, would suffice. Jennifer Rubin is the 'conservative' POST columnist, but she has been so sensible and intelligent this season that I fear she no longer speaks for real conservatives.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430

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Vitellius reigned for just 8 months in AD 69, and is described as 'lazy and self-indulgent, fond of eating and drinking, and an obese glutton, eating banquets four times a day, and feasting on rare foods he would send the Roman navy to procure.'

He was executed by Vespasian's soldiers, and succeeded by the said Vespasian AD 69 - AD 79), a much better character, even though little is known of his reign.

[Paranoid]

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

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Og, King of Bashan

Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562

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quote:
Originally posted by HCH:
Something about recent events make me think of Rome a couple of thousand years back. Are we now in the period when the republic declines through civil war into empire, or are we already in the empire phase? In the latter case, is Trump to be viewed as Caligula or as Nero?

I've just finished a podcast on the fall of the Republic, and I go back and forth. I think the only realistic answer is that in some ways we look to be recreating the conditions under which the Republic fell (particularly in income inequality and the entrenchment of the very wealthy in seats of power), but in other ways (particularly in terms of open and outrageous corruption) we have a ways to go.

I also think it is easy to get carried away in the narrative.

I remember when Obama was elected, I heard one priest refer to it (joyfully) as our Country's "crossing the Rubicon" moment. Shortly after that election, there was a major production of Julius Caesar with the title role played by a black man- clearly identifying Obama with Caesar, the man who forced reforms that benefited the people on an unwilling and aristocratic senate.

Now, the major production of Julius Caesar portrays Trump as Caesar, the dangerous wannabe dictator who is willing to trample on republican norms to achieve his ambition, as we hope that the Senate has enough guys in the mode of Cato to stand up to him.

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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy

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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238

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Well, that was quick!

Any bets on who Trump's next Director of Communications will be and how long he/she will last?

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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Hedgehog

Ship's Shortstop
# 14125

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The BBC is reporting that Scaramucci is out as communications director. Two observations:
quote:
White House communications director Anthony Scaramucci is out of the job after less than 10 days in the post.
Dear G-d, has it only been ten days??
quote:
The decision was made by Mr Trump's new chief of staff, John Kelly, US media report.
And that would be on his FIRST day in the job!

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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'

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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238

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quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
quote:
The decision was made by Mr Trump's new chief of staff, John Kelly, US media report.

And that would be on his FIRST day in the job!

Speaking of John Kelly:

quote:
New White House chief of staff John Kelly was so upset with how President Donald Trump handled the firing of FBI Director James Comey that Kelly called Comey afterward and said he was considering resigning, according to two sources familiar with a conversation between Kelly and Comey.

Both sources cautioned that it was unclear how serious Kelly, then the secretary of homeland security, was about resigning himself.

"John was angry and hurt by what he saw and the way (Comey) was treated," one of the sources said.

Whoever these leakers are they seem to want to make sure that Trump doesn't trust Kelly from here on out. Quite the cannibal feast at the White House these days.

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28

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Good grief. [Eek!]

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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!

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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238

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quote:
@JaxAlemany
Anthony Scaramucci was escorted from White House grounds today after ouster, per source familiar with the scene

The New York Times article I cited concluded with "It was not clear whether Mr. Scaramucci will remain employed at the White House in another position or will leave altogether." If Ms. Alemany's tweet is accurate it now seems a little more clear.

Having the Secret Service escort you from the building rather than some corporate rent-a-cop seems like it would be extra humiliating.

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

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And his personal life has been sacrificed on the altar. This is from the GUARDIAN: "Scaramucci’s wife Deirdre filed for divorce recently while nine months pregnant with their second child. The now-ousted White House communications missed the birth last Monday because he was traveling with Trump on Air Force One."
Heck, I'd divorce him too.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Amanda B. Reckondwythe

Dressed for Church
# 5521

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Why marry him in the first place?

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"We're not in Wonderland anymore, Alice." – Charles Manson

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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430

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O no, have pity on the poor man, cooped up on a plane with Ozymandias...... [Ultra confused]

But WTF is happening? Does Ozymandias trust anyone ? Surely, he's soon going to run out of lambs for the slaughter.

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

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What this does show is that nobody of competence or sense would take a job in this Administration. There may be a more toxic work place but I can't imagine it.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Ohher
Shipmate
# 18607

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Yikes. Somebody married that guy? And allowed him to beget spawn on her? Well, at least she's "woke" now.

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From the Land of the Native American Brave and the Home of the Buy-One-Get-One-Free

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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330

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Oh well, he's gone then.

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arse

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Boogie

Boogie on down!
# 13538

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Elect a clown, expect a circus.

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Garden. Room. Walk

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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238

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So if I follow the sequence of events, Sean Spicer resigned because having Anthony Scaramucci forced on his department was a bridge too far. Spicer was fine with the lying and treason-lite, but the Mooch was just unbearable. Scaramucci goes on to engineer the firing of obvious anagram Reince Priebus. This leads to John Kelly replacing Priebus as White House chief of staff and Kelly's first act is to fire Scaramucci. Almost immediately after that CNN runs a story citing two anonymous sources saying Kelly is sympathetic to also-fired ex-FBI Director James Comey, harming Kelly's effectiveness in his new job on day one because nothing gets Trump's ire up like a Comey-lover.

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430

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But how long can Ozymandias go on hiring-and-firing like this?

ISTM that the White House is in the process of imploding...

[Disappointed]

How unlike the home life of our dear Queen.

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238

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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
But how long can Ozymandias go on hiring-and-firing like this?

ISTM that the White House is in the process of imploding...

[Disappointed]

How unlike the home life of our dear Queen.

IJ

It also compares unfavorably with the previous administration. It's been observed that the Obama White House did not have any leaks of this nature. There were leaks made by various people to burnish their own reputations, and the kinds of 'leak' that advance the White House's agenda (e.g. here's a preview of the Affordable Care Act and several reasons why it's great!), but there were no leaks from White House insiders designed to harm the president or hamper his agenda.

Which I guess is just the Republicans being true to their philosophical position that government doesn't work.

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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Ohher
Shipmate
# 18607

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Surely the longer this imbroglio goes on, the more difficult it will become for Trump to find anybody, qualified or not, competent or not, to fill any position connected with this administration?

Not that qualifications or competence other than naked-ambition-married-to-crass-ignorance appears to justify hirings in the eyes of the alleged boss.

At some point, even invitations to the Supreme Court bench must become tainted, squelching the hopes of those inching toward a very conservative Court.

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From the Land of the Native American Brave and the Home of the Buy-One-Get-One-Free

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Barnabas62
Host
# 9110

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What a shambles.

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597

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ohher wrote:

quote:
At some point, even invitations to the Supreme Court bench must become tainted, squelching the hopes of those inching toward a very conservative Court.
Well, it depends. Once you get through the confirmation and you're on the court, you're not working at the White House. And I'd assume that any extended involvement with said domicile is actually discouraged for SCOTUS members.

So, if you're a right-wing judge somewhere, and your name gets handed to Trump for a court seat, you might not really care about how tainted the administration itself is. Just sit through the hearings(now with a GOP majority committee), and you're set for life, and never have to talk to the President again.

Unless, of course, your own nomination itself is somehow tainted with corruption, in which case it could be damaging, yeah.

[ 31. July 2017, 20:17: Message edited by: Stetson ]

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I have the power...Lucifer is lord!

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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430

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Those of us on t'other side of the pond don't have much room to talk (Boris Johnson as Foreign Secretary? [Help] )

Nevertheless, it's sad and dispiriting to watch the heart of a great nation disintegrate. No doubt Mr. Putin is chuckling sovietly...

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

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Stetson
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# 9597

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^^ I'd also point out that SCOTUS judges don't generally seem to carry the aura of the president who appointed them. Byron White was widely viewed(or, at least by liberals) as a cranky old man who wanted to roll back protection for criminal defendants and women seeking abortions. I think it was pretty rare that anyone heard his name and wistfully thought "Ah, Camelot!"

[ 31. July 2017, 20:21: Message edited by: Stetson ]

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I have the power...Lucifer is lord!

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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330

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To borrow a phrase I liked on twitter:

"it is genuinely feeling like the UK and US administrations are having an incompetent-off."

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arse

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Stetson
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# 9597

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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Those of us on t'other side of the pond don't have much room to talk (Boris Johnson as Foreign Secretary? [Help] )

Nevertheless, it's sad and dispiriting to watch the heart of a great nation disintegrate. No doubt Mr. Putin is chuckling sovietly...

IJ

Some Canadians(and, interestingly enough, quite a few Americans) seem to think that they DO have "room to talk", what with St. Justin supposedly setting a wonderful counterexample of repsonsible leadership in action.

Funny thing is, though, Trudeau is actually one of the few world leaders who seems to get along with Trump, or at least makes a point of appearing to do so, and Trump has returned the favour by mentioning him favourably in the State Of The Union address.

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I have the power...Lucifer is lord!

Posts: 6320 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Rocinante
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# 18541

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quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
Well, that was quick!

Any bets on who Trump's next Director of Communications will be and how long he/she will last?

Ivanka? Or possibly Donald Junior, who has shown such a sure touch when handling sensitive communications.

Cue many satirical skits featuring revolving doors and ejector seats.

Posts: 334 | From: UK | Registered: Jan 2016  |  IP: Logged
Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433

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quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:

I just got the impression that McConnell looked like he'd been dudded.

I've never seen any picture of him where he doesn't look like a blob fish with a cracker up his gills.

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shameless self promotion - because I think it's worth it
and mayhap this too: http://broken-moments.blogspot.co.nz/

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Og, King of Bashan

Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562

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quote:
Originally posted by Rocinante:
quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
Well, that was quick!

Any bets on who Trump's next Director of Communications will be and how long he/she will last?

Ivanka? Or possibly Donald Junior, who has shown such a sure touch when handling sensitive communications.
That whole mess was what, two weeks ago? No one is talking about it now. I'm somewhat skeptical of the entire "it's all a distraction!" line, preferring the explanation that they really don't know what they are doing and it's all chaos all the time. But if this is supposed to be distracting us from that story, it seems to be working.

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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy

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marsupial.
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# 12458

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quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
^^ I'd also point out that SCOTUS judges don't generally seem to carry the aura of the president who appointed them. Byron White was widely viewed(or, at least by liberals) as a cranky old man who wanted to roll back protection for criminal defendants and women seeking abortions. I think it was pretty rare that anyone heard his name and wistfully thought "Ah, Camelot!"

I'm not really a SCOTUS expert but my impression is that since Dubya, Republican appointments (at least) have been pretty consistently ideological. Reagan and Bush I appointed some more centrist judges who disappointed their core constituencies. That doesn't happen any longer. Anthony Kennedy is the last if these appointments and he is over 80. If he retires or dies while Trump is in power the SCOTUS will likely have a majority of fiercely ideological conservatives. The results could be, er, interesting.
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Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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OK. If this were a novel, your editor would be saying, gently, "Dear, I think there's such a thing as going too far."
The headline says it all: Scaramucci erroneously listed as dead in Harvard Law directory.
The POST goes on to report, "It’s unclear whether he was the victim of a prank — or just a typo. Harvard Law didn’t say, but the school was apparently crimson-faced over the flub. “Regrettably, there is an error in the Harvard Law School alumni directory in the listing for Anthony Scaramucci,” a spokeswoman told us in an emailed statement. “We offer our sincere apologies to Mr. Scaramucci. The error will be corrected in subsequent editions.”"

And, on Twitter, some wit posts, “It is sobering statistic that 7 out of 10 Americans will serve as Donald Trump’s White House Communications Director.”

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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Oh, and one more POST link, but this is solid gold. Alexandra Petri channels the OT on behalf of the Mooch.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Oh, and one more POST link, but this is solid gold. Alexandra Petri channels the OT on behalf of the Mooch.

A little too early to say that both Hollywood and New York will reject him. But great form.

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God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. --Acts 10:28

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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096

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Brenda said:
quote:
And, on Twitter, some wit posts, “It is sobering statistic that 7 out of 10 Americans will serve as Donald Trump’s White House Communications Director.”

Joke of the year!!!

I hate it when people compare Trump to historical figures, even terrible ones. I imagine him thinking to himself, "Huh, a Roman Emperor. My people love me, and I deserve it."

The Moochie bites the dust. Trump knows all the best people...

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The opinions expressed above are transitory emotional responses and do not necessarily reflect the considered views of the author.

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Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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Over at the POST columnist Dana Milbank reports, with some wonder, "He wasn’t officially supposed to start until Aug. 15, so his tenure, technically, was minus 16 days."

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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mark_in_manchester

not waving, but...
# 15978

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Whence satire now?

I enjoyed Croesus's post from which I extracted this:

quote:
Scaramucci goes on to engineer the firing of obvious anagram Reince Priebus.
Maybe if I were watching satirical shows on US TV this would be old news, but I went a-googling for such anagrams; amongst the best was 'penis brie cure'.

On that subject (anagrams, not penis brie) I was reminded that the host of our local (and sadly, lamented) comedy club went by the excellent sobriquet 'agra man' [Smile]

[ 01. August 2017, 00:53: Message edited by: mark_in_manchester ]

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"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)

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Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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There are many, many tweets today on the subject,
(here's a partial roundup) but the funniest so far is "I guess we know how Steve Bannon is going to celebrate."

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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My fave: "He got hired, divorced, had a baby, and fired in 10 days. Like a fruit fly."

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God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. --Acts 10:28

Posts: 62986 | From: Ecotopia | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Net Spinster
Shipmate
# 16058

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quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
Why marry him in the first place?

He changed? His first wife is suppose to be a staunch Hillary Clinton supporter.

I wouldn't blame him for not showing up for the birth given the request for the divorce had already been filed. He wasn't wanted.

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spinner of webs

Posts: 1078 | From: San Francisco Bay area | Registered: Dec 2010  |  IP: Logged



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