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Source: (consider it) Thread: Difficult relatives
quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740

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A. Pilgrim wrote:

Entirely agree with this. I think every child is born with an intense innate expectation that his* parents will care for him. If that happens, and the hope is satisfied, the child can let go of the parental bond. But if he has drawn the short straw in the parental lottery, and the expectation is unfulfilled, that unconscious drive to look to the parent for nurture carries on all his life – with the associated anxiety caused by the conflict between the desire to get away from the abusive parent, and the desire to find nurture from the parent. Until the parent dies, at which point the ‘child’ is likely to grieve more for the loss of the hope of what might have been than for the loss of what was actually experienced.

Excellent summary. Another thing that we do is recreate them, either in another person, or in ourselves, thus messing up many a marriage or relationship. "Those who do not remember the past, are compelled to repeat it".

Not Freud actually, but George Santayana.

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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.

Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011  |  IP: Logged
Dormouse

Glis glis – Ship's rodent
# 5954

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quote:
Originally posted by Gwai:
I-an oldest-promised my sister that there would be just as many pictures of child #2 as there are of #1, and told her to hold me to it. I think we've safely actually done that too, and if we hadn't my sister would hopefully have reminded me, because it really bothered her that there were a ten snaps of baby me for every one of her and her twin.


Indeed - I was looking through mum's old photo albums...a page of photos of new born older sister plus newspaper cutting of the birth announcement. Many photos of growing child. Page of new born photos of older brother. No birth announcement. Fewer photos of growing child. And Me (youngest)? Nothing. Zada. Zilch.

Mum claims it's because by the time I was born dad was into taking slides - and that's true, I remember interminable slide shows growing up - but it does still rankle a bit. Still, I won't die from it...

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What are you doing for Lent?
40 days, 40 reflections, 40 acts of generosity. Join the #40acts challenge for #Lent and let's start a movement. www.40acts.org.uk

Posts: 3042 | From: 'twixt les Bois Noirs & Les Monts de la Madeleine | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460

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quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:



I remember women who would sit by their sleeping new-born, worried in case he stopped breathing.


When my daughter was a few weeks old I asked another bloke at work when you stopped waking up in the middle of the night if you stopped hearing them breathing. He said that his daughter was 13 and he still did it.

I think for lots of parents, most probably, it comes automatically. You can't help it, you end up wanting to. For some it doesn't, and then they have a terrible time faking it.

Its as if some brain circuitry you always had but never used much suddenly gets turned on. Maybe that is exactly what happens.

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Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Twilight

Puddleglum's sister
# 2832

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quote:
Originally posted by Dormouse:
Indeed - I was looking through mum's old photo albums...a page of photos of new born older sister plus newspaper cutting of the birth announcement. Many photos of growing child. Page of new born photos of older brother. No birth announcement. Fewer photos of growing child. And Me (youngest)? Nothing. Zada. Zilch.


I'm a third child and youngest, too, and the lack of photos is almost as bad. In fact, evidence that the novelty had worn off after the second child was everywhere. My fifth grade teacher, frustrated over my lack of ambition, once declared to the class that as the only girl and the youngest I had probably never had a spanking -- the whole class burst out laughing as my neighbor said, "Only every single day."

Which incident also demonstrates what basically nice people my parents were, because all the kids knew them and were at our house a lot. The boy who spoke up for me had alcoholic parents and loved our big organized, peaceful house and my wholesome, "Leave it to Beaver," parents. Even in high school my brothers' friends would still congregate at our house for cards and touch football. But there were always those moments of surprised shock when I would get a quick slap in the face in front of them, or the curiosity of the teachers about why a girl from such a well-off family wore the same two outfits all through high school.

Just as you can't really know ahead of time whether you will be a good parent or not, you can't even know from one child to the next how you're going to feel about each one or how much interest you still have in the process.

(Not saying I didn't feel loved by my parents, I definitely did. It's just a weird dynamic when viewed from this distance.)

Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
basso

Ship’s Crypt Keeper
# 4228

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Fucky-up happens sometimes regardless of birth order.

I'm the eldest by a year. When I graduated high school, I got a check for $50.
My sister graduated a year later -- by the skin of her teeth. She got a trip to Hawaii.

(This may be partly because I didn't really even know that trips to Hawaii existed...)

Posts: 4358 | From: Bay Area, Calif | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
ecumaniac

Ship's whipping girl
# 376

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quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Two things you can only say to other parents, or in Hell:

1. You wish you could live twice. Once with children, once without.

2. You only realise how great not having children is once you have them.

Would be rather nice if parents said this to non-parents once in a while, instead of the usual guilt-tripping accusations that are thrown!!!!

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it's a secret club for people with a knitting addiction, hiding under the cloak of BDSM - Catrine

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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Yeah, and I have a lot less of a problem with folk who can articulate "forbidden" thoughts like that than people who won't acknowledge them and take their resentment out on the kids.

Or (worse yet) articulate those thoughts only to the children, and expect to be treated like parent of the year regardless.

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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

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mark_in_manchester

not waving, but...
# 15978

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How about this re-interpreted as an early recorded case of narcissistic parental dysfunction, with disaster narrowly averted by direct and timely divine intervention.

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"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)

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mark_in_manchester

not waving, but...
# 15978

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It gets better.

The noble look on the lad's face as he prepares to take one for the family team is especially inspiring.

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"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)

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North East Quine

Curious beastie
# 13049

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An old friend, has given me a stern talking to.

I visited my parents this week and intercepted my mother filling a hot water bottle for me. I asked her not to. She seemed surprised that I did not want a hot water bottle.

This has a long history. In my teens Mum and I fought many a fight over hot water bottles. ISTM that every time I had a hot water bottle, as the bottle cooled, so did I, and I'd wake up at 3am cold, and not be able to get back to sleep. But Mum kept trying to sneak HWBs into my bed.

These days, I just remove any HWBs I find and waft the duvet till any hint of warmth has been dissipated. But if I catch my Mum in HWB-filling action, I asked her, pleasantly, to please don't as I don't like them.

I remarked to my friend that I'd probably told my mother that I don't like HWBs 5 times a year for the past 20 years, 10 times a year for the preceeding 10 years and at least 20 times a year in the 5 years before that. So not less that 300 times. And each time Mum reacts as though I'd never mentioned this before.

And my wise friend said that my mother regards putting a HWB in my bed as a loving gesture. Minor details, such as my opinion, don't count. What counts to Mum is that she is Doing Something For Me. And she loves Doing Things For Me, because, my friend said, my mother loves me very much. And I should just Suck It Up. Pull up my big girl panties and deal.

We are, apparently, in Corinthians 13 territory.

My mother's love for me is not self-seeking - she knows there will be no pay back in terms of gratitude in return for her attempts to put HWBs in my bed, do my laundry, clean my kitchen floor etc.

My mother keeps no record of wrongs - all 300 rejections of her HWBs, ranging from the full-on teenage tantrum, and slammed door, to the mildly exasperated refusal, are instantly forgotten.

My mother's love perseveres. Perhaps one day I will let her do my ironing!

My friend pointed out that I like to interact with people I care for by communicating with them. And it frustrates me that I cannot communicate with my mother.

Communication isn't important to Mum. She shows her love by Doing Things for other people. Including things they'd much, much, rather she didn't.

Families. Meh.

Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged
Twilight

Puddleglum's sister
# 2832

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Oh jeeze, though, NEQ, the frustration. My husband has traces of whatever it is your mom has. He has a list in his head of "things women like," and it doesn't fit me. For example women like plants and flowers for gifts and the fact that I don't has never gotten through, in spite of 34 years of heavy hinting. But that just happens a few times a year.

Every night he politely sits at the table watching me eat. I'm a slow eater, plus, I fall behind since I'm the cook/server. I tell him to go ahead, watch TV, I'll be awhile, no fuss. I have serious talks about how being watched while I eat makes my throat close up and I can barely swallow. It doesn't matter. In his head it's not nice to leave the table until I'm done.

Don't your mother and my husband have any duty at all to adjust their definitions of kind and caring, according to circumstances?

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orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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That's very much treating love as an abstract concept: I Am Being Loving. (aren't I good)

Actually loving a person, I would have thought, ought to involve getting to know their individual qualities.

Or maybe we're dealing with folks who take 'do unto others as you would have done to you' very, very literally. I would like people to give me hot water bottles, therefore I am commanded to give other people hot water bottles...

--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
North East Quine

Curious beastie
# 13049

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There's a whole list of stuff like that. For instance, if my journey home from my parents involves train/ walk to bus stop / bus/walk home, I will never be grateful when Mum gives me a parting gift of an iced cake and an admonition to keep it level. And yet.... [brick wall]
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged
Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564

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quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:

Every night he politely sits at the table watching me eat. I'm a slow eater, plus, I fall behind since I'm the cook/server.

Sounds like you could accommodate both your desires if he did the cooking/serving, which would slow him to closer to your natural pace... [Big Grin]
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L'organist
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# 17338

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posted by orfeo
quote:
Or maybe we're dealing with folks who take 'do unto others as you would have done to you' very, very literally. I would like people to give me hot water bottles, therefore I am commanded to give other people hot water bottles...
Which is why a dress size 8 (US 4) friend was puzzled when her MiL gave her a corselet - heavy-duty, definitely NOT 'fun lingerie' - for her birthday.

But then the same woman gave her son a book Life after Divorce:create a new beginning for his birthday...

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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet

Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012  |  IP: Logged
Twilight

Puddleglum's sister
# 2832

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quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:

I will never be grateful when Mum gives me a parting gift of an iced cake and an admonition to keep it level. And yet.... [brick wall]

[Killing me] There's an entire comic movie in your mom and my loving husband, and yes, Orfeo has them in one, "Aren't I good!"

And, LC, if he did the cooking, I'm afraid my throat really would close up, permanently.

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Tubbs

Miss Congeniality
# 440

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quote:
Originally posted by basso:
Fucky-up happens sometimes regardless of birth order.

I'm the eldest by a year. When I graduated high school, I got a check for $50.
My sister graduated a year later -- by the skin of her teeth. She got a trip to Hawaii.

(This may be partly because I didn't really even know that trips to Hawaii existed...)

Going by the family photos on display in the living room of a friend's parents, you'd know they had a daughter but not a son. It's like he doesn't exist. He got a similar deal to you growing up.

Tubbs

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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am

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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333

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quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
That's very much treating love as an abstract concept: I Am Being Loving. (aren't I good)

Actually loving a person, I would have thought, ought to involve getting to know their individual qualities.

Or maybe we're dealing with folks who take 'do unto others as you would have done to you' very, very literally. I would like people to give me hot water bottles, therefore I am commanded to give other people hot water bottles...

We all see each other through the haze of our own experience. For some it is a light mist, for others solid stone. One that ends at their skull wall.
Just as there are those who seem to feel your pain, there are those incapable. Not that they do not care.
Empathy <---Sympathy---> Unwanted Hot Water Bottles

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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou

Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged
quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740

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quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
That's very much treating love as an abstract concept: I Am Being Loving. (aren't I good)

Actually loving a person, I would have thought, ought to involve getting to know their individual qualities.

Or maybe we're dealing with folks who take 'do unto others as you would have done to you' very, very literally. I would like people to give me hot water bottles, therefore I am commanded to give other people hot water bottles...

Interesting points. I think 'getting to know their qualities' means actually seeing someone. Some of the parents on this thread just sound more narcissistic, and people who are like that, often can't see someone else, except as a kind of reflection of their own needs.

I remember my own mother really could not understand why my son didn't like certain foods - and she used to say pitifully, 'but there's nothing to dislike'. Oh, what a wealth of information is contained in that remark!

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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.

Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011  |  IP: Logged
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984

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NEQ, have you considered if you can have an electric blanket ? These can stay on all night, she gets to feel good cos she has made sure you have a warm bed and you get to be toasty right through the night. (Or secretly ensure is is switched off at a strategic moment.)

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
ArachnidinElmet
Shipmate
# 17346

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quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
That's very much treating love as an abstract concept: I Am Being Loving. (aren't I good)

Actually loving a person, I would have thought, ought to involve getting to know their individual qualities.

Or maybe we're dealing with folks who take 'do unto others as you would have done to you' very, very literally. I would like people to give me hot water bottles, therefore I am commanded to give other people hot water bottles...

Interesting points. I think 'getting to know their qualities' means actually seeing someone. Some of the parents on this thread just sound more narcissistic, and people who are like that, often can't see someone else, except as a kind of reflection of their own needs.

I remember my own mother really could not understand why my son didn't like certain foods - and she used to say pitifully, 'but there's nothing to dislike'. Oh, what a wealth of information is contained in that remark!

My Dad is the dictionary definition of this phenomenon. He likes helping people, but only if it's with things he would want himself, and if you do not need or want that help then begins the whining: " But you should ask for help", "Why don't you want me to do that" "Why won't you let me help you".

At the more extreme end of the spectrum my Dad has had knock-down drag-out screaming matches with people based on two arguments solely thought out in his head. He reacts, not to the other person's words, but to what he would say or do if he were in that position himself.

It's extremely frustrating to deal with.

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'If a pleasant, straight-forward life is not possible then one must try to wriggle through by subtle manoeuvres' - Kafka

Posts: 1887 | From: the rhubarb triangle | Registered: Sep 2012  |  IP: Logged
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333

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We all live in our own heads, but it is nice if we go out to visit.

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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou

Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged
Twilight

Puddleglum's sister
# 2832

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And you know what else? All our relatives who live in their heads are just going to get worse as their old-age hearing loss increases.

We're going to need a bigger thread.

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Twilight

Puddleglum's sister
# 2832

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I'm having a terrible guilt attack, prompting me to come here and mention that Hubs does about 30 hours per week volunteer work for the food pantry and starting today, he's doing taxes for free for anybody who wants it. Now I hate myself.

I hope you're happy Francophile.

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Spike

Mostly Harmless
# 36

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If it's sympathy you're after, you're on the wrong board

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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing

Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
But then the same woman gave her son a book Life after Divorce:create a new beginning for his birthday...

Wow.

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
Leaf
Shipmate
# 14169

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quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:
My mother's love for me is not self-seeking - she knows there will be no pay back in terms of gratitude in return for her attempts to put HWBs in my bed, do my laundry, clean my kitchen floor etc.

I understand what you mean by equating "not self-seeking = not seeking payback". But I do see her actions as self-seeking. As orfeo points out, they are about her self-regard as "A Loving Mother". They are not actions made with the needs, wants, or preferences of another in mind; they are motions toward a mirror.

Perhaps it will be difficult for those who only see themselves in a mirror dimly to actually see others face to face! And to really truly understand the needs and wants of the other as something other than mere reflections of their own. What a shock that will be.

However, she's your mother and I have no axe to grind about it. Although some of the relatives on here really do make me think about sharpening axes.

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Twilight

Puddleglum's sister
# 2832

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quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
If it's sympathy you're after, you're on the wrong board

No, actually. The first part was sort of an agreement about the double mindedness of our feelings toward our relatives, already mentioned a few times on this thread, and the last line was a joke.

But I wouldn't expect you to get any of that, Spike.

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Francophile
Shipmate
# 17838

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quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
I'm having a terrible guilt attack, prompting me to come here and mention that Hubs does about 30 hours per week volunteer work for the food pantry and starting today, he's doing taxes for free for anybody who wants it. Now I hate myself.

I hope you're happy Francophile.

Yes, very happy, thanks for enquiring. I have/had wonderful parents who I love/lived greatly. Even if my mother had ever forced a hot water bottle on me (which she didn't) Id have been grateful. Honestly, some folk have very little to worry them. In the time it took NEQ to tell us about hot water bottles, she could have brought some joy into her mother's life with a telephone call.
Posts: 243 | From: United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2013  |  IP: Logged
comet

Snowball in Hell
# 10353

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quote:
Originally posted by Francophile:
Yes, very happy, thanks for enquiring. I have/had wonderful parents who I love/lived greatly.

poor things must really wonder where they went wrong.

Twilight - get the fuck over yourself you delicate little snowflake. Spike's comment easily applies to the whole thread, but of course, it's all about you, isn't it?

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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions

"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin

Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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Huh? Since Spike's comment came directly after Twilight's post, she was hardly mis-reading it.
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Left at the Altar

Ship's Siren
# 5077

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I've always said that Twilight has amazing foresight.
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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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She wasn't mis-reading it in her subsequent post. But you knew that. [Disappointed]

[ 01. February 2014, 00:44: Message edited by: RuthW ]

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Left at the Altar

Ship's Siren
# 5077

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She has pretty good hindsight as well.

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Still pretty Amazing, but no longer Mavis.

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Taliesin
Shipmate
# 14017

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Sorry, but I feel the need to give [Ultra confused] advice!

NEQ, you have my total sympathy and admiration. Please just smile and say 'no thanks' when handed an iced cake. Don't take it in your hands. If you had a car, she could put it in the boot, but you don't, so she can't. Don't worry about hurting her feelings, because she clearly has a different set of... perceptions. She might think you're odd, but that's hardly a new concept.

Twilight, when you're eating and feel uncomfortable, pick up your plate and fork and go and sit somewhere else with it. On the stairs, if necessary. When he asks why, tell him you don't like being watched while you eat. I guarantee you he will say, you should have told me, or similar.

Just smile and agree.

Anyone can now tell me of for giving advice. But this is hell, and I can do what I like.
Francophile, you are horrible.

Posts: 2138 | From: South, UK | Registered: Aug 2008  |  IP: Logged
Francophile
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# 17838

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Well, I suppose it depends in your perception of horrible.

Some filk might think that a non-horrible reaction to being presented with a cake by anyone, not least your elderly and much-loved mother, would be to accept it graciously, express your thanks and live to her, embrace her, make her feel loved and wanted and appreciated, promise her that you will take great care with the box/tin/receptacle on the journey home, take such care even if inconvenient and phone your mother on your return and tell her that you and the cake are both home safely.

I suppose, unlike you lot, I just had the good fortune to grow up with loving parents who I cherish(ed).

Posts: 243 | From: United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2013  |  IP: Logged
Alicïa
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# 7668

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quote:
Originally posted by Francophile:
Well, I suppose it depends in your perception of horrible.

Some filk might think that a non-horrible reaction to being presented with a cake by anyone, not least your elderly and much-loved mother, would be to accept it graciously, express your thanks and live to her, embrace her, make her feel loved and wanted and appreciated, promise her that you will take great care with the box/tin/receptacle on the journey home, take such care even if inconvenient and phone your mother on your return and tell her that you and the cake are both home safely.

I suppose, unlike you lot, I just had the good fortune to grow up with loving parents who I cherish(ed).

Lucky you. So you had good fortune and now you sanctimoniously blow chunks whenever you hear of others who have received less harmony than yourself.
How very self interested you are Franklydull.

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"The tendency to turn human judgments into divine commands makes religion one of the most dangerous forces in the world." Georgia Elma Harkness

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Amanda B. Reckondwythe

Dressed for Church
# 5521

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quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:
My mother's love for me is not self-seeking - she knows there will be no pay back in terms of gratitude in return for her attempts to put HWBs in my bed, do my laundry, clean my kitchen floor etc.

My mother keeps no record of wrongs - all 300 rejections of her HWBs, ranging from the full-on teenage tantrum, and slammed door, to the mildly exasperated refusal, are instantly forgotten.

My mother's love perseveres. Perhaps one day I will let her do my ironing!

I am reminded of a passage from my favorite novel, Thornton Wilder's The Bridge of San Luis Rey:

quote:
“The knowledge that she would never be loved in return acted upon her ideas as a tide acts upon cliffs. . . . She secretly refused to believe that anyone (herself excepted) loved anyone. . . . She saw that the people of this world moved about in an armor of egotism . . . in dread of all appeals that might interrupt their long communion with their own desires. . . . She knew that she too sinned and that though her love for her daughter was vast enough to include all the colors of love, it was not without a shade of tyranny: she loved her daughter not for her daughter's sake, but for her own. She longed to free herself from this ignoble bond; but the passion was too fierce to cope with.”


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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.

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Barnabas62
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# 9110

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That's good. Very good. Not seen that before. Thanks, Amanda B.

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Francophile
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# 17838

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quote:
Originally posted by Francophile:
Well, I suppose it depends in your perception of horrible.

Some filk might think that a non-horrible reaction to being presented with a cake by anyone, not least your elderly and much-loved mother, would be to accept it graciously, express your thanks and live to her, embrace her, make her feel loved and wanted and appreciated, promise her that you will take great care with the box/tin/receptacle on the journey home, take such care even if inconvenient and phone your mother on your return and tell her that you and the cake are both home safely.

I suppose, unlike you lot, I just had the good fortune to grow up with loving parents who I cherish(ed).

Just sitting waiting for my mother at the Saturday nurse-led macular clinic at hospital, having driven my mother 50 miles to her monthly scan to prevent blindness. Her third hospital visit since the beginning of the year which I have taken her too so far. I have the urology clinic with her on 12 February. Just as well I've got the energy. Some of you seem to find carrying a cake tin or chucking a hot water bottle out your bed just too much to cope with.

I love and respect her and want to do as much as she needs and as much as I am capable of. Its called love.

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Evensong
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# 14696

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Fun

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a theological scrapbook

Posts: 9481 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2009  |  IP: Logged
chive

Ship's nude
# 208

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Francophile,

I think when I read your posts the big thing you don't seem to realise is that some of us would love to have the relationship you have with your parents. Some of us pray for it daily. Some of us yearn with a yearning that can't be described for a family that make us feel wanted, loved, cared for, whole, whatever. Some of us would give up everything they have for that. And some of us know that whatever we do, whether it is giving our last penny, our last drop of blood, our last breath, it will not be enough. We will still be rejected, unloved, abused, hurt, destroyed. We come back and try over and over again to stop this but we can't.

Every time you post one of your passive aggressive bullshit posts it reminds us that our families don't want us except as receptacles for their use and abuse. That makes us feel great.

Families are not all wonderful. Some families are deeply and tragically pathological. Some of the children of these families do the things you do, drive their mothers to the hospital, wait for them. They do that despite the abuse, the rejection and the sadness. Because of the fantasy that one day, maybe even for one second, they will feel the love and comfort you take for granted. But it doesn't happen. Doing things for people you love is easy, it is not sacrificial, it is nothing to boast about. Doing things for people who destroy you is hard. Loving someone who despises you is sacrificial. You clearly know nothing of this. Be grateful.

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'Edward was the kind of man who thought there was no such thing as a lesbian, just a woman who hadn't done one-to-one Bible study with him.' Catherine Fox, Love to the Lost

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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

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[Overused]

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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

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Ronald Binge
Shipmate
# 9002

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Lord have Mercy! I've just read Pyx-e's story and believe I am travelling across a plain called Ease in comparison.

Where on earth does this thing about being always right come from, because it boggles the stuffing out of me, every day when I get it here.

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Older, bearded (but no wiser)

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Taliesin
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# 14017

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yes. Completely beautiful Chive. Would you like to be my honorary relative? We would love to have you. [Smile]
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tessaB
Shipmate
# 8533

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I do love my mother. I see her every week and would always want to help her. When she was in hospital recently for a week I visited her every day and when she came home I did her shopping, helped her bathe and washed her hair.
However I also dislike her deeply. She sneers at my husband and my sisters husbands. She carps at my beautiful daughter for not being some slim identikit blonde clone. She tells people in front of me about the fact that my son is severely autistic and what a worry he is to her and how she can't understand why I don't worry (translation - she is better than I am.)
She is 82 and looks set to be with us for many more years. I dread her dying, partly because I love her and will miss her, partly because I worry I will be relieved.

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tessaB
eating chocolate to the glory of God
Holiday cottage near Rye

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The Phantom Flan Flinger
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# 8891

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quote:
Originally posted by Francophile:

Just sitting waiting for my mother at the Saturday nurse-led macular clinic at hospital, having driven my mother 50 miles to her monthly scan to prevent blindness. Her third hospital visit since the beginning of the year which I have taken her too so far. I have the urology clinic with her on 12 February. Just as well I've got the energy. Some of you seem to find carrying a cake tin or chucking a hot water bottle out your bed just too much to cope with.

I love and respect her and want to do as much as she needs and as much as I am capable of. Its called love. [/QUOTE]


Well FUCKING good for you. Aren't you just a saint. Understand this - some of us have difficult relationships. Sometimes we need to vent about it in places like this.

I've mentioned upthread some of the things my mother has done to me. If she needed me, would I be there? Hell yeah. Does the fact that she's done some things that I feel the need to rant about mean I don't love her? No.

Get over yourself - some people are not like you. Doesn't mean their opinion is invalid, or should be denigrated by an asshat like you.

[ 01. February 2014, 16:58: Message edited by: The Phantom Flan Flinger ]

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http://www.faith-hope-and-confusion.com/

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Nicolemr
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# 28

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*Yawn* It all has to be about you, Frankenstein. You are a very disagreeable sort of snot, actually.

BTW I would love to have my parents back to do that sort of thing with. I loved both of them very much. But I don't. They are dead. That doesn't change the fact that they were both very difficult people to live with when they were alive. You seem to not understand that people can love difficult people, and still acknowledge their difficultness. This is a failing in you. I suggest you work on trying to rectify it. It's called developing empathy, among other things.

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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!

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Palimpsest
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# 16772

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quote:
Originally posted by Francophile:
I love and respect her and want to do as much as she needs and as much as I am capable of. Its called love.

It's a pity that offering what you call love to her creates so much resentment in you that you have to spew so much venom here.

[ 01. February 2014, 19:00: Message edited by: Palimpsest ]

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A.Pilgrim
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# 15044

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quote:
Originally posted by Palimpsest:
quote:
Originally posted by Francophile:
I love and respect her and want to do as much as she needs and as much as I am capable of. Its called love.

It's a pity that offering what you call love to her creates so much resentment in you that you have to spew so much venom here.
I've just had an idea regarding Francophile...

One of the most profoundly revealing things I've ever read is the following: 'We hate the expression by others of that which is repressed within ourselves'. So why should Francophile hate all the posts in this thread which express the unpleasant and ambivalent feelings about difficult relatives - especially parents? Well, perhaps he or she has the same feelings buried within his/her own psyche, but is unable to acknowledge that they even exist, because to do so would disrupt the functioning of the relationship as it currently exists.

I might be right, I might be wrong. But another hint is that the response of someone who came from a truly happy family background to hearing about the unhappiness of others would be sadness, not irritation or hatred.

Angus

Posts: 434 | From: UK | Registered: Aug 2009  |  IP: Logged



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