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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Fucking Guns
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
What could possibly go wrong with a trained instructor teaching a nine-year-old to shoot an assault weapon?
![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
Yeah, my brain immediately went there as well.
I've been trying to think if there is anything that makes me more angry than all the morons in the US who get their understanding of how gunfights work from Hollywood movies, where the bad guys are poor shots and never kill the significant characters.
Nope. I honestly can't think of anything that enrages me more. Not because it's the absolute worst thing in the world, but because it is so obviously preventable if they spent 5 fucking seconds looking at the rest of the developed world.
[ 23. February 2018, 01:45: Message edited by: orfeo ]
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
AR15s are rarely involved in single homicide by gun incidents, but they have been used in several mass shootings. The argument for banning them or restricting their ownership is based on the disproportionate numbers of deaths and life changing injuries caused by their use in mass attacks. They are truly lethal weapons, capable of causing horrific injuries - as TonyK's link illustrates vividly.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
My brother, a retired schoolteacher, e-mailed me some very insightful comments. I quote:
quote:
Regarding T's moronic suggestion that we arm the teachers: Why don't any of the reporters say, "Would anyone even dream of suggesting, 'Hey, we don't need the Secret Service anymore; just give guns to Trump and Melania and Baron and let them protect themselves!' or 'We don't even need police; just give guns to all the citizens and let the good guys with guns police all the bad guys in their town!'"
And by the way, the teacher would have a "pistol" while the bad guy has an automatic weapon, so the teachers will get blown away. And God help the teacher who decides he needs to shoot a kid, but a jury says he over-reacted, so the teacher gets thrown in prison.
But it shouldn't surprise us that T's solution to preventing school shootings is to bring "more" guns into schools, because this is the same guy who thinks that the best way to improve sex "in" his marriage is to have sex with porn stars "outside" his marriage.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
I just ordered an AR upper build kit. It will arrive on my steps in 3 days. The serialized lower will be available to pick up from a nearby shop in a week. I also got 1000 rounds of NATO 5.56 for 280 bucks!! ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
My girls (9 and 14) are excited to help build a weapon they have both fired before, but never seen assembled. We'll take it on our annual camping trip in June and burn up those rounds at the Cedar Creek rifle range in the Sumter National Forest.
It will be great fun, and all for less than $1000!
One of the best arguments for the existence of God is that He apparently keeps alive people who are otherwise too stupid to live.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
There’ve been a few wastes of carbon on SOF.
None moreso than you.
That is truly painful, coming from a stammering half-wit of your stature.
Better a minor word usage error than the cognitive errors you so readily display.
I though about composing a more clever reply, but you are not worth it and likely wouldn't understand it.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
I just ordered an AR upper build kit. It will arrive on my steps in 3 days. The serialized lower will be available to pick up from a nearby shop in a week. I also got 1000 rounds of NATO 5.56 for 280 bucks!!
My girls (9 and 14) are excited to help build a weapon they have both fired before, but never seen assembled. We'll take it on our annual camping trip in June and burn up those rounds at the Cedar Creek rifle range in the Sumter National Forest.
It will be great fun, and all for less than $1000!
One of the best arguments for the existence of God is that He apparently keeps alive people who are otherwise too stupid to live.
Say what you'd like about him, his infinite wisdom is well established on these boards.
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
I just ordered an AR upper build kit. It will arrive on my steps in 3 days. The serialized lower will be available to pick up from a nearby shop in a week. I also got 1000 rounds of NATO 5.56 for 280 bucks!!
My girls (9 and 14) are excited to help build a weapon they have both fired before, but never seen assembled. We'll take it on our annual camping trip in June and burn up those rounds at the Cedar Creek rifle range in the Sumter National Forest.
It will be great fun, and all for less than $1000!
One of the best arguments for the existence of God is that He apparently keeps alive people who are otherwise too stupid to live.
Say what you'd like about him, his infinite wisdom is well established on these boards.
As is His great mercy.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
[qb] I just ordered an AR upper build kit. It will arrive on my steps in 3 days. The serialized lower will be available to pick up from a nearby shop in a week. I also got 1000 rounds of NATO 5.56 for 280 bucks!!
My girls (9 and 14) are excited to help build a weapon they have both fired before, but never seen assembled. We'll take it on our annual camping trip in June and burn up those rounds at the Cedar Creek rifle range in the Sumter National Forest.
It will be great fun, and all for less than $1000!
One of the best arguments for the existence of God is that He apparently keeps alive people who are otherwise too stupid to live.
Say what you'd like about him, his infinite wisdom is well established on these boards.
As is His great mercy.
To that I can offer my only sincere Amen in years. Thank you.
![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif)
[ 23. February 2018, 02:46: Message edited by: romanlion ]
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
...you do realise I'm calling you a blithering idiot, yes?
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
...you do realise I'm calling you a blithering idiot, yes?
Really?! Oh shit, well gimme a minute...
Check back shortly!
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096
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Posted
I was just thinking about this on the dunny, and I reckon Romanlion is hard core trolling.
He mentions his aaaaaarrrrrr, presumably some kind of loathsome thing to have in civilian hands. He mentions his young children around guns, and shooting this (again, I'm guessing) heavy and difficult thing for children to use. He mentions a stack of ammo (again, a guess). I think his scenario is designed to elicit angry responses from sensible people with everyday attitudes to weapons of mass killing potential.
I'm calling Romanlion a bullshit artist. I call on Romanlion to produce photographic evidence of him assembling his aaaaarrrrr with his daughters in his loungeroom. I want to see Romanlion in a MAGA hat with a post-it note attached with the words on it "I heart simontoad". Only then, will I desist from calling him a dangerous lunatic.
If, Romanlion, you told me what you wrote in your post face-to-face I would literally back away slowly. If you were in Australia, I would also think about making a call to the anti-terrorism hotline.
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Human
Posts: 1571 | From: Romsey, Vic, AU | Registered: May 2014
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RooK
1 of 6
# 1852
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
I just ordered a [monkey killer] build kit.
[slow clap]
Oh, I didn't realize that horrific trolling was part of the Winter Olympics. Are you trolling direct from PyeongChang?
Good mount, right off the bat, with energetic chain yanking. Things fell apart with the addition of anecdotal proof that you've ever had sex. I give it a 4/10, mostly suffering from deductions due to blaring obviousness and continued failure to use reason. Still, it has to be said that it was an effective troll, sinking the barb directly into people's fundamental humanity.
Posts: 15274 | From: Portland, Oregon, USA, Earth | Registered: Nov 2001
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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096
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Posted
I'd definitely make a call to Child Protection. No question.
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Human
Posts: 1571 | From: Romsey, Vic, AU | Registered: May 2014
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
I just ordered a [monkey killer] build kit.
[slow clap]
Oh, I didn't realize that horrific trolling was part of the Winter Olympics. Are you trolling direct from PyeongChang?
Good mount, right off the bat, with energetic chain yanking. Things fell apart with the addition of anecdotal proof that you've ever had sex. I give it a 4/10, mostly suffering from deductions due to blaring obviousness and continued failure to use reason. Still, it has to be said that it was an effective troll, sinking the barb directly into people's fundamental humanity.
Is that your way of saying that I fit right in with the Americans?
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
I'd thought of asking romanlion whether he was for real about the gun, or just yanking our chains. I decided I wasn't sure I wanted to know.
![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif)
And if it was a "joke", do we have to go back and reinterpret *all* of his posts?
{We need a smiley for running away and hiding, preferably in a comfy, well-stocked place with lights, books, blankets, and pillows.}
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Ohher
Shipmate
# 18607
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Posted
Get a room, FFS.
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From the Land of the Native American Brave and the Home of the Buy-One-Get-One-Free
Posts: 374 | From: New Hampshire, USA | Registered: Jun 2016
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RooK
1 of 6
# 1852
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
Is that your way of saying that I fit right in with the Americans?
Look, I already gave my scoring. There's no bonus points for extra trolling. Lucky for you, because that was weak.
Posts: 15274 | From: Portland, Oregon, USA, Earth | Registered: Nov 2001
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
Things fell apart with the addition of anecdotal proof that you've ever had sex.
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
Is that your way of saying that I fit right in with the Americans?
Look, I already gave my scoring. There's no bonus points for extra trolling. Lucky for you, because that was weak.
Sorry about that. I just appreciate the non-US citizen perspective on these matters so much, I didn't mean to offend...
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
DNFTT
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
DNFTT
Rodents gotta EAT around here!!
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
Is that your way of saying that I fit right in with the Americans?
Look, I already gave my scoring. There's no bonus points for extra trolling. Lucky for you, because that was weak.
Sorry about that. I just appreciate the non-US citizen perspective on these matters so much, I didn't mean to offend...
Mate, I have tried on numerous occasions to draw out from you your reasoning on various positions on US politics. On each occasion you have either ignored me, rebuffed me or just jerked me around.
This non-US citizen is deeply committed to at least one version of the American Dream, embodied by the 'light on the hill'. I might interpret that dream as belonging to a broader people than US citizens, but it is still an American dream, just as much as it is also an Australian one.
This non-US citizen was bought up knowing what the USA did for Australia, and its cost. Blood means something to this non-US citizen.
I recognise that a large number of Americans support something like the NRA version of Conservatism and I want to try and understand why somebody would think that way. On the ship, you seem to be the way in, but every fucking time you block me.
My feeling has always been that the NRA version of conservatism in its current manifestation is illogical and emotive. Its about heritage and tradition, rather than thinking about sensible policy. It wasn't always like that. I might be wrong, but I don't think many Americans cared all that much about their right to own an assault weapon in the 1980's. People wanted to have a pistol somewhere I think, or wanted a gun to hunt with, but not an assault rifle.
My opinion on this remains provisional. I remain willing to discover a perspective that makes it all make sense. I think there is a big barrier to my finding such an argument, constructed of the bodies of Americans who have died by the gun in the last year or so. But the point is that I don't ask you for your position so I can call you a monster, but so I can understand why you are not one.
Please, all bets are off.
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Human
Posts: 1571 | From: Romsey, Vic, AU | Registered: May 2014
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
And if it was a "joke", do we have to go back and reinterpret *all* of his posts?
I think we need to conclude that he campaigned for Mrs Clinton, even keeping a nostalgic "Clinton" board displayed in his yard.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
Back to guns.
I reckon trump will arm teachers - those willing to be armed and trained.
Further tragedy will ensue. It could be anything - child takes teacher’s gun and shoots. Shooter goes for teachers first etc etc. What it can’t do is make school safer or free from these terrible events.
What then?
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
Simontoad - I think it's about the myth of redemptive violence. It permeates some aspects of American culture.
Think of the films where a "good" guy with a gun sets the world to rights. By killing the "bad" guys. A country so full of evangelicals, supposedly committed to a gospel of grace, forgiveness and reconciliation, but apparently in love with the concepts of payback, retaliation and revenge.
This is the heart of the NRA and Trump's problem, as far as I see it. They cannot conceive of people not going into schools with semi-automatic weapons in the first place, even though in the rest of the developed world that is exactly what doesn't happen. They can only conceive of what to do if it does. At best they can only conceive of deterrence through fear, rather than the opportunity simply not arising in the first place.
The combination of "hey, the solution is for me to be able to kill you" and easy availability of firearms appears to be the toxic mix.
I've said this before, and it still seems to ring true - to the NRA mindset, the focus is on how much safer they feel with a gun. For the rest of us, and almost universally outside of the US, we focus on how much safer we feel knowing that the people around us almost certainly don't have one.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096
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Posted
Karl, thanks. I reckon you're probably right. My impression, pretty strongly, is that this myth has been around since at least the Ancient Greeks, and it didn't have such a damaging influence in America until recently, other than in the conflict between black and white. Maybe that's it. Maybe the strategies and morality applied to keeping the Blacks away from power are now being applied to broader social battles?
But the point is that I want to hear how someone who holds these views justifies them. As I have written before in a previous attempt to get Romanlion to open up, I know conservative Americans personally. But they are in their eighties, and I love them and I don't want to drive a wedge between us.
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Human
Posts: 1571 | From: Romsey, Vic, AU | Registered: May 2014
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
I watched Anderson Cooper 360 last night and two things emerged from the discussions which really struck me.
1. One of those involved in the discussions was a teacher from Marjory Stoneman Douglas high school who was at the shcool during the mass shooting. She declared herself to be a Trump supporter and strong believer in 2nd Amendment freedoms. When asked what she thought of the proposal to arm (and train) gun-competent teachers, she observed that the experience had changed her mind. Before the event, she would have thought it was a good idea. But the experience had taught her how chaotic these situations were, how difficult it was to think straight, never mind shoot straight. She was also strongly against teachers carrying guns in the classroom, or even having them locked away in the classroom for rapid access. She thought the risks of pupils getting hold of those guns were too great to be born. She also talked about the emotional volatility of the pupils she taught, and the dangers of them getting hold of these extra guns.
The we hear that the armed school resource officer (in the post since 2009), faced with the impact of the event and hearing the semi-automatic rifle fire, hid behind a pillar outside the school while the shooting went on within the school. I guess a sense of self-preservation took over, got in the way of him doing what he was there to do. Easy to call him a coward, if you haven't experienced the chaos and the fear yourself.
The notion of arming teachers would seem, at best to be problematic.
The second thing was that in a later discussion, there was one panelist (a US citizen) who argued that the US should indeed learn and reflect on the responses of the UK and Australian governments to the mass school shootings experienced there, and the absence of any repetition. She drew parallels with controls over car drivers to reduce road deaths. She argued that more radical gun control steps should at least be discussed. She was isolated amongst the five panelists (3 Democrats, 2 Republicans). The other four did not even discuss her observations, I suppose because in the USA context they were seen as politically unrealistic. I really didn't know what to make of that. As orfeo has observed here
quote:
I've been trying to think if there is anything that makes me more angry than all the morons in the US who get their understanding of how gunfights work from Hollywood movies, where the bad guys are poor shots and never kill the significant characters.
Nope. I honestly can't think of anything that enrages me more. Not because it's the absolute worst thing in the world, but because it is so obviously preventable if they spent 5 fucking seconds looking at the rest of the developed world.
What is wrong with discussing the responses elsewhere in the world? Thinking the unthinkable?
[ 23. February 2018, 09:25: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
That seems the best course of action.
Better odds of a stray dropping through what passes for your brain, fuck-stick.
Actually, no. I don't live around guns, don't own a gun, my neighbourhood is pretty much unarmed and even the police aren't routinely carrying.
Your magical thinking that I'm going to get hit by an entirely non-existent bullet is at a greater odds than you or your children when they're around actual bullets is really very special.
[ 23. February 2018, 09:41: Message edited by: Doc Tor ]
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eirenist in Purgatory:
According to a report in the London Times, Wayne LaPierre has said that the right to bear arms has been 'granted by God to all Americans as our birthright'. Can any Shipmate explain to me how he arrives at that conclusion? How was it granted by God? and why to Americans?
Copied over from a closed thread in Purgatory. Feel free to be as serious or as rude as you like!
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
He's going to be shocked - Shocked! I tell you - when he finds out the meaning of the word 'amendment'.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
My answer. He's just wrong. Amendment 1 to the Constitution says this.
quote:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
The Constitution deliberately stands outside organised religious belief. So any claim that the right to bear arms (Amendment 2) is God-given would seem to fly in the face of Amendment 1.
The Consitution is man-made, and as far as I am aware makes no claim to be God-given.
[ 23. February 2018, 11:10: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
quote:
The we hear that the armed school resource officer (in the post since 2009), faced with the impact of the event and hearing the semi-automatic rifle fire, hid behind a pillar outside the school while the shooting went on within the school. I guess a sense of self-preservation took over, got in the way of him doing what he was there to do. Easy to call him a coward, if you haven't experienced the chaos and the fear yourself.
It takes a great deal of both courage to put yourself in a situation where you might get hurt. I once helped prevent a mugging on the London Underground by standing next to the potential muggee and his girlfriend, thus giving, I hoped, the impression that in a rumble he would have to take on three of us rather than two. During the incident I was completely terrified. The sort of people who would run towards the sound of an automatic rifle are incredibly brave, almost certainly trained to deal with the situation or denser than the core of a white dwarf. Sticking some poor bloke with a gun on site and hoping he turns out to be Colonel 'H' Jones when the balloon goes up is a tad optimistic. There's a reason that the army doesn't just give new recruits a gun and say, "the enemy are over there somewhere, off you trot".
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
quote:
Originally posted by Eirenist in Purgatory:
According to a report in the London Times, Wayne LaPierre has said that the right to bear arms has been 'granted by God to all Americans as our birthright'. Can any Shipmate explain to me how he arrives at that conclusion? How was it granted by God? and why to Americans?
Copied over from a closed thread in Purgatory. Feel free to be as serious or as rude as you like!
This is what the philosopher Richard Rorty described as "God as a conversation stopper". It isn't a serious theological position. It's a desperate attempt to shut down debate.
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
My answer. He's just wrong. Amendment 1 to the Constitution says this.
quote:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
The Constitution deliberately stands outside organised religious belief. So any claim that the right to bear arms (Amendment 2) is God-given would seem to fly in the face of Amendment 1.
The Consitution is man-made, and as far as I am aware makes no claim to be God-given.
If I can be very boring I think it is fair to mention that "God" and "Organised religion" are very different things. Some Organised religion has a weird idea of God (even Organised Christian religion) while God wouldn't recognise many aspects of Himself in some Organised religions despite thorough, close and minute examination.
That said, I'm sure he has a view of Wayne LaPierre and I'm confident that He will ask Wayne what the heck he was on about. However God can put that.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Callan:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
quote:
The we hear that the armed school resource officer (in the post since 2009), faced with the impact of the event and hearing the semi-automatic rifle fire, hid behind a pillar outside the school while the shooting went on within the school. I guess a sense of self-preservation took over, got in the way of him doing what he was there to do. Easy to call him a coward, if you haven't experienced the chaos and the fear yourself.
It takes a great deal of both courage to put yourself in a situation where you might get hurt. I once helped prevent a mugging on the London Underground by standing next to the potential muggee and his girlfriend, thus giving, I hoped, the impression that in a rumble he would have to take on three of us rather than two. During the incident I was completely terrified. The sort of people who would run towards the sound of an automatic rifle are incredibly brave, almost certainly trained to deal with the situation or denser than the core of a white dwarf. Sticking some poor bloke with a gun on site and hoping he turns out to be Colonel 'H' Jones when the balloon goes up is a tad optimistic. There's a reason that the army doesn't just give new recruits a gun and say, "the enemy are over there somewhere, off you trot".
That's very impressive Callan. I've never been in that type of situation. I don't know how I would react. Please God I am not tested.
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Fair point, Sioni. But I think it is a decent inference; it would seem odd for the writers of the Constitution and Amendments 1 and 2 to claim that the writings were in any way specially divinely inspired.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
At the time the wealthy men wrote the American constitution they were pretty much all slave owners weren't they?
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
At the time the wealthy men wrote the American constitution they were pretty much all slave owners weren't they?
Yup, another God-given right.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
quote:
Originally posted by Eirenist in Purgatory:
According to a report in the London Times, Wayne LaPierre has said that the right to bear arms has been 'granted by God to all Americans as our birthright'. Can any Shipmate explain to me how he arrives at that conclusion? How was it granted by God? and why to Americans?
Copied over from a closed thread in Purgatory. Feel free to be as serious or as rude as you like!
It seems a pity we can only discuss this subject in Hell where we are allowed to rant, curse and insult each other more or less as much as we like. In part I can answer Eirenist's question.
1. Neither the right to bear arms nor the US Constitution, nor anybody else's for that matter, has been granted by God.
2. If either of them are anyone's birthright, it is so from some other human source.
3. 'America', whether as a continent or as a state, is no more (or less) special to God than anyone or anywhere else.
4. 1-3 strike me as theologically so fundamentally obvious that I can't explain to anyone how he can reach his conclusion without error, delusion or both.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
I've said this before, and it still seems to ring true - to the NRA mindset, the focus is on how much safer they feel with a gun. For the rest of us, and almost universally outside of the US, we focus on how much safer we feel knowing that the people around us almost certainly don't have one.
And it is still worth a ![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
The victims of hungerford and Dublane did not lose their lives in vain because it meant something was done to reduce the risk of it happening over and over again.
Guns are culturally addictive, (not just to owners), and the States are completely hooked. Until the Country as a whole says 'My name is Uncle Sam, I have a problem', nothing will change.
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Change is the only certainty of existence
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Callan:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
quote:
The we hear that the armed school resource officer (in the post since 2009), faced with the impact of the event and hearing the semi-automatic rifle fire, hid behind a pillar outside the school while the shooting went on within the school. I guess a sense of self-preservation took over, got in the way of him doing what he was there to do. Easy to call him a coward, if you haven't experienced the chaos and the fear yourself.
It takes a great deal of both courage to put yourself in a situation where you might get hurt. I once helped prevent a mugging on the London Underground by standing next to the potential muggee and his girlfriend, thus giving, I hoped, the impression that in a rumble he would have to take on three of us rather than two. During the incident I was completely terrified. The sort of people who would run towards the sound of an automatic rifle are incredibly brave, almost certainly trained to deal with the situation or denser than the core of a white dwarf. Sticking some poor bloke with a gun on site and hoping he turns out to be Colonel 'H' Jones when the balloon goes up is a tad optimistic. There's a reason that the army doesn't just give new recruits a gun and say, "the enemy are over there somewhere, off you trot".
Though the reports I read said the officer in question was a 30+ year veteran in the police. Which, of course, doesn't mean this wasn't the first time he'd been confronted by someone with a gun (it's quite possible he'd never been put in that position before). Possibly rather than a posting for a raw recruit the position of officer guarding a school is seen as one of those soft options given to someone approaching retirement and no longer quite up to the rigours of pounding the beat and chasing down petty crooks, an alternative to the proverbial desk job.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
I just ordered a [monkey killer] build kit.
[slow clap]
Oh, I didn't realize that horrific trolling was part of the Winter Olympics. Are you trolling direct from PyeongChang?
Good mount, right off the bat, with energetic chain yanking. Things fell apart with the addition of anecdotal proof that you've ever had sex. I give it a 4/10, mostly suffering from deductions due to blaring obviousness and continued failure to use reason. Still, it has to be said that it was an effective troll, sinking the barb directly into people's fundamental humanity.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
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Originally posted by simontoad:
I'm calling Romanlion a bullshit artist. I call on Romanlion to produce photographic evidence of him assembling his aaaaarrrrr with his daughters in his loungeroom. I want to see Romanlion in a MAGA hat with a post-it note attached with the words on it "I heart simontoad". Only then, will I desist from calling him a dangerous lunatic.
Hostly furry hat on
I missed this earlier in the rush. Perhaps my eyes were still bleeding from romanlion's 'post'.
I appreciate that he's an utter dickwad and lower than a bilge rat, but even a total cockwomble like him is afforded the protection of anonymity (and dear Lord, doesn't he need it?) and there should be no attempts to tease out his RL persona (I'm guessing living out of a basement in Omsk), no matter how gratifyingly disappointing the reality might be.
So let's not do that. We have standards, despite the provocation.
DT
HH
Hostly furry hat off
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Though the reports I read said the officer in question was a 30+ year veteran in the police. Which, of course, doesn't mean this wasn't the first time he'd been confronted by someone with a gun (it's quite possible he'd never been put in that position before). Possibly rather than a posting for a raw recruit the position of officer guarding a school is seen as one of those soft options given to someone approaching retirement and no longer quite up to the rigours of pounding the beat and chasing down petty crooks, an alternative to the proverbial desk job.
Someone elsewhere has made the entirely cogent point that police officers have been routinely assigned to schools since Colombine, and in that time have prevented precisely zero school shootings, but have managed to arrest many students, often black students, for minor infractions of the law.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
The NYPD stat for hitting the target in a gun fight is 18%. These are trained police officers in the biggest city in the US. It is difficult to believe that a teacher could better those odds in her classroom.
As to guns being a God-given right, remember that Wayne LaPierre has no theology degree and is in fact a minion of Moloch. Child sacrifice is OK with him. It would be useless to point out to him that, if you're going to go that route, I could claim that my God has called upon me to smite the heathen and to gut LaPierre with a kitchen knife would be a holy and appropriate offering upon His altar. You can find a religion to let you do anything. His religion is guns.
[ 23. February 2018, 13:34: Message edited by: Brenda Clough ]
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096
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Posted
Two people died in the Lindt Cafe siege. One was executed for pissing the gunman off, and the other caught a stray bullet when the rozzers rushed the place in response to the gunshot. Three other hostages and a police officer were also injured by police bullets.
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Human
Posts: 1571 | From: Romsey, Vic, AU | Registered: May 2014
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
As to guns being a God-given right, remember that Wayne LaPierre has no theology degree and is in fact a minion of Moloch.
It's obvious that owning and using guns is a god-given right. In fact a demand of god. It's just the god in question is Moloch. Not the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God and Father of Christ Jesus.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Alan Cresswell
I think a 30 year veteran might be quite well aware that going up a gunman firing a semi automatic rifle with a standard issue police sidearm was hardly an equal contest.
He would probably have guessed AR15. I think that might have given anyone pause for thought.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
I think a 30 year veteran might be quite well aware that going up a gunman firing a semi automatic rifle with a standard issue police sidearm was hardly an equal contest.
He would probably have guessed AR15. I think that might have given anyone pause for thought.
So, someone with the experience necessary to confront someone armed with an AR15 or similar knows that the only chance of doing so with any degree of success is to wait for tactical backup. Someone without that experience might rush in and would do no good (quite probably be one of the casualties while the gun man gets on with his murderous rampage).
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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