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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Trumpton
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
I don’t think he’s clinically insane. That’s offensive to the genuinely mentally ill.
That's what I thought before the press conference.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688
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Posted
I am not surprised the BBC went with that angle. Trump was unforgivably rude to their journalist.
Anyone sending a little card for the ides of Trump? I am looking for one with a picture of the Eiffel Tower and the Parisian statue of Liberty (same as the one in New York but smaller). I am going to write "Dear Mr President, we want our statue back. -France".
[x-post with Barnabas]
[ 17. February 2017, 09:14: Message edited by: la vie en rouge ]
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Rent my holiday home in the South of France
Posts: 3696 | Registered: Nov 2005
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
My previous "fiery and mad" link was to an ITV article, and not from the BBC.
Here is the BBC link.
And here is Anthony Zurcher's more detailed observation, which makes no comment on his mental state. Other than Trump's own assertion that he would be portrayed as "ranting and raving", which Zurcher does not say.
I think he was ranting and raving for a significant proportion of that 76 minute press conference. YMMV.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sarasa:
I agree Jane R about what is happening in the UK and am rather in despair as to how to stop it (my MP appears to have gone AWOL on the topic). Back to Trump, I watched the (edited) news conference on the BBC Ten O'Clock news. The theme , well at least the theme the BBC were going with, was the 'trust me, everything you hear is fake news' one. If I was a Trump supporter I guess I'd buy into that. What is it going to take for his fan base to realise that not every newspaper and TV company in the Country is in a conspiracy against him.
This is the real question.
I went on his Facebook page - his supporters are ardent, completely with him and repeating everything he says.
What this says about them I don't know. Do they see the same man I see? This press conference wasn't hidden, it was out there for all to see his bullying, erratic ways. How can they possibly think he says any of it in good faith?
I get more perplexed by the day. Some of his supporters are intelligent, ordinary people - yes?
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
I went on his Facebook page - his supporters are ardent, completely with him and repeating everything he says.
What this says about them I don't know. Do they see the same man I see? This press conference wasn't hidden, it was out there for all to see his bullying, erratic ways. How can they possibly think he says any of it in good faith?
I get more perplexed by the day. Some of his supporters are intelligent, ordinary people - yes?
It's just hard for any of us to admit, publicly, that we have been wrong. Particularly when it comes to trusting someone else. Trusting Trump was a desperate move by a large number of frustrated and increasingly angry people, fed up with both "Washington" and "mainstream media". You can understand that. I think they have been conned, but they are the ones who have to realise that.
If a backlash comes from Trump's supporters, and it might in due course, I shudder to think about how that anger and disappointment will erupt.
There comes a point however when defence ceases to be sustainable. I saw this phenomenon amongst Nixon supporters during Watergate.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
Anyone sending a little card for the ides of Trump? I am looking for one with a picture of the Eiffel Tower and the Parisian statue of Liberty (same as the one in New York but smaller). I am going to write "Dear Mr President, we want our statue back. -France".
I'm sending 200 postcards, but postage is less expensive since I'm within the U.S. Thank you for supporting this effort -- and I love your idea!
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Pangolin Guerre
Shipmate
# 18686
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Posted
I was able to watch most of the press conference as I was at home for lunch. It was jaw-dropping - one of the most bizarre spectacles of public life I have ever witnessed. It was how I imagine a Mussolini press conference.
Step #1: Someone must explain to Trump that the campaign is over. That this is not a "reality" TV exercise. This is for real. People will not be fired - they will die.
Posts: 758 | From: 30 arpents de neige | Registered: Nov 2016
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pangolin Guerre:
I was able to watch most of the press conference as I was at home for lunch. It was jaw-dropping - one of the most bizarre spectacles of public life I have ever witnessed. It was how I imagine a Mussolini press conference.
It is easy to look at Mussolini as a strutting popinjay from an English speaking perspective. But he was not only a real motivator, he is the prototype of modern dictatorship. He was a real piece of work, but he was competent.
quote:
Step #1: Someone must explain to Trump that the campaign is over. That this is not a "reality" TV exercise. This is for real. People will not be fired - they will die.
He doesn't care. As long as there are a few to polish his knob, he's happy.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
Well, I am doing my part. I have been knitting pussyhats like the wind. And because this weekend is notably springlike and clement in the region, and yet there are no protest marches scheduled (that I know of), I am going to give the president a pussyhat. It is carefully and safely enclosed in a zip-loc bag, so the security people may feel calm about it.
The note enclosed (handwritten with a Sharpie) says: Dear Mr. President, I know you are sad because everyone else had a pussyhat and you did not. So I made you one. If you wear it you will feel better. Sincerely.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Well, I am doing my part. I have been knitting pussyhats like the wind. And because this weekend is notably springlike and clement in the region, and yet there are no protest marches scheduled (that I know of), I am going to give the president a pussyhat. It is carefully and safely enclosed in a zip-loc bag, so the security people may feel calm about it.
The note enclosed (handwritten with a Sharpie) says: Dear Mr. President, I know you are sad because everyone else had a pussyhat and you did not. So I made you one. If you wear it you will feel better. Sincerely.
I've been meaning to ask if you'd done that yet. Please let us know what reaction you get!
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
I understand there is some debate over whether he's genuinely mentally ill or just an arsehole: see here , the relevant quote being "Trump causes severe distress rather than experiencing it and has been richly rewarded... for his grandiosity, self-absorption and lack of empathy."
I did see that, and thought it was very interesting. The writer knows what he is talking about (he wrote the diagnostic criteria for narcissism, so seems like the perfect person to comment on Trump).
And I would agree that suggestions of mental health are mistaken. It is like when people commit atrocities the question is always "were they mentally ill?" In Trumps case, from what I have seen, the indications are not there. He cannot be excused by illness - he is a callous, manipulative, unpleasant person; narcissistic, yes, but that is just his obnoxious self.
We are too quick, sometimes, to assign to mental health problems things that can easily be explained by the fact that people are shit.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Rocinante
Shipmate
# 18541
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Posted
I would question the idea that Trump is not in distress. He seems to me to be someone who is in turmoil, driven by things he doesn't understand. The only thing that seems to calm him is another fix of adulation & unquestioning obedience (I notice he's holding a campaign rally in Florida tomorrow, although the campaign ended over 2 months ago.) That and endless hours of TV.
How long before he bans "dishonest" reporters from press conferences so he can get his fix in the press room?
Posts: 384 | From: UK | Registered: Jan 2016
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
I am in hopes a pussyhat would help. (I once wrote a short story, in which knitting did.) I plan to drive up to the White House and simply hand it to the gate guard. They're used to this; people give (or mail) things to the president all the time. You can see the stuff, years later, in the Presidential Libraries: crocheted afghans, portraits rendered in glued-on dried macaroni, crayon pictures. Everything (except for food items, which are destroyed) is carefully archived for history.
The odds are very very long, of course, that the president will ever see any of it. So I do not expect the PGinC to show up on TV wearing a pink hat (although it would be a very clever thing for him to do). I do expect the hat to linger in a box in the Smithsonian for all time. I made it out of acrylic, so it will endure.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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HCH
Shipmate
# 14313
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Posted
Re: the comment about Mussolini. It remains to be seen whether Trump will make the trains run on time.
Posts: 1540 | From: Illinois, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
We are too quick, sometimes, to assign to mental health problems things that can easily be explained by the fact that people are shit.
Maybe. He certainly fits a part of the narcissistic personality disorder pattern. And I thought I spotted some deterioration in that bizarre news conference.
But I agree in general that not all failings can be attributed to mental illness.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by HCH:
Re: the comment about Mussolini. It remains to be seen whether Trump will make the trains run on time.
Trains are an environmentally friendly means of travel. So, he'll prefer to make sure they're so unreliable that people will prefer to fly or drive ... don't let those Chinese dictate global policy to sell their demonic wind turbines and solar panels.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
We are too quick, sometimes, to assign to mental health problems things that can easily be explained by the fact that people are shit.
Maybe. He certainly fits a part of the narcissistic personality disorder pattern. And I thought I spotted some deterioration in that bizarre news conference.
But I agree in general that not all failings can be attributed to mental illness.
One can be mentally ill and an arsehole.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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molopata
The Ship's jack
# 9933
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Posted
Ok. Ok. I think I've finally got it all worked out.
It's an evil ploy of NBC or CBC or CNN, doesn't matter, one of those fake-news outlets. Somewhere they got the same girls who were in action a bit earlier this week at Kuala Lumpur airport doing a job on KJU's brother to sedate Trump and swap him with Alec Baldwin, who is now doing all the press conferences, while meanwhile it is Trump who is under hypnosis and has to work on Saturday Night Live.
Believing all this makes a whole lot more sense than believing that the man in the news conference was really the dignified president of the US of A.
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... The Respectable
Posts: 1718 | From: the abode of my w@ndering mind | Registered: Aug 2005
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Pangolin Guerre
Shipmate
# 18686
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Posted
From his Twitter: "...media are the enemy of the American people." Enemy of the people? This is happening more quickly than I had anticipated.
Posts: 758 | From: 30 arpents de neige | Registered: Nov 2016
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Sarasa
Shipmate
# 12271
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Posted
Brenda Clough said:
quote:
I am in hopes a pussyhat would help. (I once wrote a short story, in which knitting did.)
Hmmm I once wrote a story in which knitting helped fullfil the wishes of a murderous nun, but I'm sure you mean nothing but the best for Donald.
The whole 'the media is lying' thing is worringing. Would Trump have any powers to curtail the freedom of the press in the way Erdogan has done in Turkey, or would that final be a step too far?
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'I guess things didn't go so well tonight, but I'm trying. Lord, I'm trying.' Charlie (Harvey Keitel) in Mean Streets.
Posts: 2035 | From: London | Registered: Jan 2007
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pangolin Guerre:
From his Twitter: "...media are the enemy of the American people." Enemy of the people? This is happening more quickly than I had anticipated.
You may be interested in this article.
From which the following quote shows something important.
quote:
As the scandal surrounding his campaign's ties to Russia grows, Trump wants the public to think it's all the doing of the dishonest media. But journalists are not letting up, and the vast majority of Americans are not going to fall for Trump's tactics for very long. Even on the generally-supportive Fox News channel, the brave Shepard Smith called him out. "It's absolutely crazy," Smith said. "He keeps repeating ridiculous throwaway lines that are not true at all and sort of avoiding this issue of Russia as if we're some kind of fools for asking the question."
At the risk of "Godwinning" the discussion, the USA is not Germany in the early 1930s. Trump is rallying the faithful; doesn't seem too see much point in reaching out to the 60% or so of the population who think he is doing a lousy job.
He'll lose in the end, though it may be a pretty nasty journey to get to the loss.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
The Beeb has suggested that his audience does not watch CNN or read the papers he does not like, so are primed to believe his claim that they lie.
Meanwhile, I am haunted by a reversed image of the return of Toad to Toad Hall - only the toad and his cronies are the ones being ousted. He is the Lord of Misrule, and will get removed by nemesis. He is Antinous and will bbe expelled by reason.
Don't know where that came from (except that people abusing the hospitality of the first person with my name has been in my mind for other reasons).
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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molopata
The Ship's jack
# 9933
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sarasa:
The whole 'the media is lying' thing is worringing. Would Trump have any powers to curtail the freedom of the press in the way Erdogan has done in Turkey, or would that final be a step too far?
I don't think he could do it now, but if his narrative is allowed to hack away at the reputation of the mainstream media for several years, then it might become possible to find a political consensus putting certain tabs on the media. Now the problem is, Trump is not 180 degrees wrong when he criticises the media. It's full of hype, spin and fake news, particularly from outlets close to political parties. British newspapers are a case in point.
[ 18. February 2017, 08:01: Message edited by: molopata ]
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... The Respectable
Posts: 1718 | From: the abode of my w@ndering mind | Registered: Aug 2005
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by molopata:
Now the problem is, Trump is not 180 degrees wrong when he criticises the media. It's full of hype, spin and fake news, particularly from outlets close to political parties. British newspapers are a case in point.
Examples are helpful. Can you produce one from the UK papers where a story critical of Trump was "full of hype, spin and fake news"? One will do. And given Trump's dismissal of the BBC at the recent press conference, feel free to quote from the BBC website as well.
I don't think the media are perfect as information sources. I don't think the Trump administration is perfect as an information source. In order to evaluate sources, all of us need some kind of critical capability. We can weigh what is said for internal coherence, confirmation from other sources, track record of being right etc. As Shepherd Smith demonstrated (and Megyn Kelly before him), it is perfectly possible to work for an organisation which is slanted in favour of a particular position and yet retain some measure of critical objectivity over these things.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
I don't think Trump knows the difference between news and opinion.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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molopata
The Ship's jack
# 9933
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
quote:
Originally posted by molopata:
Now the problem is, Trump is not 180 degrees wrong when he criticises the media. It's full of hype, spin and fake news, particularly from outlets close to political parties. British newspapers are a case in point.
Examples are helpful. Can you produce one from the UK papers where a story critical of Trump was "full of hype, spin and fake news"? One will do.
I wasn't referring specifically to Trump, but to news in general. Look no further than the Daily Express and Daily Mail for a compilation of untruths and misrepresentations so outlandish that I feel that the Brothers Grimm would make a more reliable source of factual information.
So what I meant was that this is one of the very few things I could agree with Trump in principle, but look at it from a near-opposite political angle.
[ 18. February 2017, 09:06: Message edited by: molopata ]
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... The Respectable
Posts: 1718 | From: the abode of my w@ndering mind | Registered: Aug 2005
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
I don't think Trump knows the difference between news and opinion.
Maybe not. But he is in the Whitehouse ibecause many people stopped believing the offerings of experts and gagged neoliberal news moguls a long while back.
It is the age of news echo chambers, and if the chamber doesn't throw back the inner workings of our head we simply ain't interested anymore.
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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Dave W.
Shipmate
# 8765
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by molopata:
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
quote:
Originally posted by molopata:
Now the problem is, Trump is not 180 degrees wrong when he criticises the media. It's full of hype, spin and fake news, particularly from outlets close to political parties. British newspapers are a case in point.
Examples are helpful. Can you produce one from the UK papers where a story critical of Trump was "full of hype, spin and fake news"? One will do.
I wasn't referring specifically to Trump, but to news in general. Look no further than the Daily Express and Daily Mail for a compilation of untruths and misrepresentations so outlandish that I feel that the Brothers Grimm would make a more reliable source of factual information.
So what I meant was that this is one of the very few things I could agree with Trump in principle, but look at it from a near-opposite political angle.
If you think Donald Trump is criticizing the UK press then you completely misunderstand what he's doing. He's talking about CNN and the New York Times; he neither knows nor cares about the Daily Express and the Daily Mail.
Posts: 2059 | From: the hub of the solar system | Registered: Nov 2004
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molopata
The Ship's jack
# 9933
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Posted
Again: I wasn't referring specifically to Trump, but to the news in general.
Of course I don't think he's criticising the UK press; I am. What I am saying is that much of the British press is extremely shoddy and if they don't run fake news, then at least something pretty close to it (in fact, I referred to the D. Express and D. Mail which are both pretty pro-Trump, btw). It is exactly this kind of media behaviour that makes it possible for Trump and his ilk to attack the media and make the attack stick, namely because he is at least partly right.
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... The Respectable
Posts: 1718 | From: the abode of my w@ndering mind | Registered: Aug 2005
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
I have seen that "uranium" section of the Press Conference. If any PM in the UK did one so badly they would be out in hours, as would their briefing staff, but of course the systems are different.
What struck me was how patronising he is. I suspect 90% of his audience knew what uranium is (the other 10% are all his supporters), but he presents it like it is radical and new. I guess, because it is new to him, that someone explained to him that uranium could be used in nuclear weapons.
Of course, uranium is also used for nuclear power plants, possibly medical equipment? I don't know all of its uses. But someone has told him some snippet of information, and it has blown his mind. He just can't handle it.
And why should the US not have trade with Russia? It is not illegal, it is a reasonable trade. Trump does a lot of trade with the Russians.
And he is apoplectic about this! About the fact that the US does trade in important and difficult materials. Like anyone thought differently.
I can see children at school doing US history asking "So he misled people about some inappropriate sex? And they impeached him? Just for that?"
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Dave W.
Shipmate
# 8765
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by molopata:
Again: I wasn't referring specifically to Trump, but to the news in general.
Of course I don't think he's criticising the UK press; I am. What I am saying is that much of the British press is extremely shoddy and if they don't run fake news, then at least something pretty close to it (in fact, I referred to the D. Express and D. Mail which are both pretty pro-Trump, btw). It is exactly this kind of media behaviour that makes it possible for Trump and his ilk to attack the media and make the attack stick, namely because he is at least partly right.
No, you specifically referred to Trump - you said
quote:
Now the problem is, Trump is not 180 degrees wrong when he criticises the media.
This is still utter nonsense - the behavior of the UK media can't possibly make it possible for Trump to attack the media, because he's not talking about them.
You may have valid criticisms of the Daily Express and the Daily Mail, but this is a really stupid reason to cite - it's idiotic to blame them for Trump's attacks on CNN and the New York Times.
Posts: 2059 | From: the hub of the solar system | Registered: Nov 2004
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molopata
The Ship's jack
# 9933
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Posted
Dave, please read me in context. I didn't stop there:
Now the problem is, Trump is not 180 degrees wrong when he criticises the media. It's full of hype, spin and fake news, particularly from outlets close to political parties. British newspapers are a case in point.
I am not talking about Trump criticising the media pertaining only to Trump, I'm talking about Trump's general criticism of the media that it is full of hype, spin and fake news. And that is as true for the British media as it is for the American. (Having at last found something I to some extent agree on with the bastard, I've kind of got to make a thing of it!)
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... The Respectable
Posts: 1718 | From: the abode of my w@ndering mind | Registered: Aug 2005
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
The media don't fit your description, some of the media do. To paint all with the sins of the worst is definitely responsible for cheeto and probably for Brexit as well.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
Thing is, we in the UK are well used to fake news.
Peace in our time? WMD's deployed in 45 minutes? A shallow, short-lived economic 'dip' in 08?... to name but a few.
On that other matter, I've come across people who fervently hold views much akin to the Mail and Express without ever having read the damn things, not even when eating their fish and chips.
All this banging on fake news is overblown hyperbole IMO. If there ever comes a time when individual US journalists, relentlessly dissing DT, start mysteriously disappearing then my alarm bells will be ringing.
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
All this banging on fake news is overblown hyperbole IMO. If there ever comes a time when individual US journalists, relentlessly dissing DT, start mysteriously disappearing then my alarm bells will be ringing.
It's better to ring the alarm before the house is fully engulfed with flames.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Thing is, we in the UK are well used to fake news.
Peace in our time? WMD's deployed in 45 minutes? A shallow, short-lived economic 'dip' in 08?... to name but a few.
As you say, fake news isn't new. Though, aren't those examples the statements of politicians rather than news? They were reported accurately as what politicians said, which is completely different from newspapers/TV news reporting something invented.
Better (UK) examples would include the various "loony left" stories of how Labour run councils enacted all sorts of "politically correct" policies (Christmas becoming "winterval" or "Baa Baa Black Sheep" banned, etc) - which were almost all reported in a manner that significantly distorted actual events if not being pure fiction. Or, the long term reporting claiming that immigrants receive free NHS treatment or benefits, overstretch local resources, take local jobs etc. (again all widely reported as fictional).
I'm sure there are similar examples of fake news in US media over as long a period. And, a collection of outlets that are renowned for such reporting (Fox comes to mind from what has been reported). The irony being that Trump has targeted news outlets that have been the least guilty of fake news, while ignoring the much greater prevalence of fake news from outlets that are more generally supportive of his policies.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
I'm sure there are similar examples of fake news in US media over as long a period.
Indeed, and the very same ones as the UK ones you enumerate, mutatis mutandis* (for instance instead of NHS put Medicaid).
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*changing the changeable
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
From my observations, the more partisan the source the more spin; but when it comes to flat out lying the right are far more likely to be guilty. And by lying I mean provable facts.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Dave W.
Shipmate
# 8765
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by molopata:
Dave, please read me in context. I didn't stop there:
Now the problem is, Trump is not 180 degrees wrong when he criticises the media. It's full of hype, spin and fake news, particularly from outlets close to political parties. British newspapers are a case in point.
I am not talking about Trump criticising the media pertaining only to Trump, I'm talking about Trump's general criticism of the media that it is full of hype, spin and fake news.
He's bullshitting. He simply says that any item critical of him is "fake news", while he casually peddles the most obvious, easily disprovable falsehoods without a trace of shame.
He's not "making a general criticism of the media", and you're a fool if you think he is.
quote:
And that is as true for the British media as it is for the American. (Having at last found something I to some extent agree on with the bastard, I've kind of got to make a thing of it!)
No, there's really no obligation for you to follow him into the pool of idiocy in which he splashes about. This is entirely your choice.
Posts: 2059 | From: the hub of the solar system | Registered: Nov 2004
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Soror Magna
Shipmate
# 9881
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Posted
Drumpf tweets that the media are the enemy of the people. That's not a serious critique of the media; that's straight out of both the fascist and the communist playbook.
The problem, IMV, isn't so much the fake or real news; it's that few people know or care how to distinguish them properly or consider the details of the story rather than the headline. One of my colleagues was outraged by a news story about a new law that pedestrians will be required to wear reflective clothing. "The government won't tell me what to wear!" The real story was a proposal to regulate what can be labeled "reflective" or "safety" apparel so that it actually has enough reflective stuff to do the job (particularly for work clothing), unlike e.g. yoga pants or sneakers with useless teeny reflective logos or piping. It was a proposal for a regulation for clothing manufacturers, advertisers and retailers, not a law for pedestrians. See how complicated all that was? Makes my brain tired! Don't have time! It's so much easier for people to freak out or founder in cynicism instead.
When if I'm dissatisfied by a lack of detail, or obsessed with finding out the reality behind the story, I'll download that controversial report or court decision or whatever and read it for myself. I guess that's probably nerdier than the average body politic.
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"You come with me to room 1013 over at the hospital, I'll show you America. Terminal, crazy and mean." -- Tony Kushner, "Angels in America"
Posts: 5430 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Gene Huber, the man who joined Trump on the stage at the rally, typified the loyalty of his supporters. He's star struck, a believer, rather like a cult follower. And seems a very pleasant human being.
You ask yourself, where is his critical faculty? Is it submerged by the adulation? In which case it will re-emerge as reality bites. Or, more worryingly, does he not really have one, which is why he's been drawn in.
As Golden Key just posted in Purgatory, John McCain has just done a demolition job on Trump's world view. So there are and will be voices around debunking the nonsense. How long will it take to sink in? Erode his loyalist power base?
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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molopata
The Ship's jack
# 9933
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.:
quote:
Originally posted by molopata:
And that is as true for the British media as it is for the American. (Having at last found something I to some extent agree on with the bastard, I've kind of got to make a thing of it!)
No, there's really no obligation for you to follow him into the pool of idiocy in which he splashes about. This is entirely your choice.
Ok. I'll break it down into chicken-nugget sized morsels for you without conjunctions:
1. Trump notes that a lot of media produce fake news.
2. I agree with this finding.
3. It is amazing that I agree with him on anything at all.
4. I remark that parts of the British press have been producing fake-news for years.
5. I do not agree with Trump on which media or on which particular news.
6. I mention The Daily Express and The Daily Mail as examples.
7. The Daily Express and The Daily Mail are very-pro Trump.
8. Trump has probably never heard of these newspapers.
Further clarifications:
a. I do not think the media is the enemy of the people.
b. Trump expresses popular half-truths to seduce people.
b. I do not think that Trump is sane.
c. I am not (I think ![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif) ) following him into a pool of idiocy for agreeing with him on one single thing.
d. Even broken clocks show the right time twice a day.
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... The Respectable
Posts: 1718 | From: the abode of my w@ndering mind | Registered: Aug 2005
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Interesting example of fake news.
From the Master of fake news.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
I wonder how much fake news would fail to be reported if Trump had a good night sleep rather than send a barrage of tweets at two in the morning.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
if Trump had a good night sleep
Given his alleged prowess with women, surely he's not having to spend the night in an empty bed while the First Bimbo remains in New York.
Or maybe that's the problem.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Sarasa
Shipmate
# 12271
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Posted
The thing that worries me about all this fake news stuff is that while the media is spending lots of time discussing it, Pence and others are in Europe actually talking about policy. I'm wondering if someone (enter name here) has decided to keep Trump happy with rallies, twitter etc while they do the actual governing, which is likely to be far more alarming to us all.
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'I guess things didn't go so well tonight, but I'm trying. Lord, I'm trying.' Charlie (Harvey Keitel) in Mean Streets.
Posts: 2035 | From: London | Registered: Jan 2007
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Wesley J
Silly Shipmate
# 6075
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Posted
Thanks, Boogs. - Oh.dear.God! ![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif) ![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)
Posts: 7354 | From: The Isles of Silly | Registered: May 2004
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Dave W.
Shipmate
# 8765
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by molopata:
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.:
quote:
Originally posted by molopata:
And that is as true for the British media as it is for the American. (Having at last found something I to some extent agree on with the bastard, I've kind of got to make a thing of it!)
No, there's really no obligation for you to follow him into the pool of idiocy in which he splashes about. This is entirely your choice.
Ok. I'll break it down into chicken-nugget sized morsels for you without conjunctions:
1. Trump notes that a lot of media produce fake news.
This is a very stupid mischaracterization of what Trump is doing. You have already failed at the first hurdle. quote:
2. I agree with this finding.
3. It is amazing that I agree with him on anything at all.
Possibly not so amazing. You are, after all, someone who somehow thinks the behavior of the Daily Mail and Daily Express is what "makes it possible for Trump and his ilk to attack the media" when neither Trump nor his audience gives the slightest fuck about the UK press.
quote:
c. I am not (I think ) following him into a pool of idiocy for agreeing with him on one single thing.
You don't even understand what you think you're agreeing with. Possibly you're still wandering around trying to find the pool of idiocy. quote:
d. Even broken clocks show the right time twice a day.
This quaint saying isn't meant to be something you should aspire to as a life goal.
Posts: 2059 | From: the hub of the solar system | Registered: Nov 2004
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
Interesting example of fake news.
From the Master of fake news.
Here's the story of what really happened in Sweden Friday night. (The moose story is particularly heart-wrenching.)
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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