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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: All new job search support thread
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
If there was a TICTH thread running, I'd have consigned CV rewriting to it a long, long time ago. I am seriously considering stapling my scrotum to a plank for light relief, it's so unpleasant. ![[Help]](graemlins/help.gif)
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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JoannaP
Shipmate
# 4493
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Posted
That is something I must do, soon (as in, a couple of months ago). But I last wrote one over 20 years ago...
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"Freedom for the pike is death for the minnow." R. H. Tawney (quoted by Isaiah Berlin)
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin
Posts: 1877 | From: England | Registered: May 2003
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Caissa
Shipmate
# 16710
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Posted
Writing and rewriting a cv provides an opportunity to reflect on what you have done and what skills you have to offer a prospective employer. One needs to remember that the primary purpose of a cv is secure an interview. After that it is a whole different ballgame.
Posts: 972 | From: Saint John, N.B. | Registered: Oct 2011
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
Alternatively, it provides you with an opportunity to wonder how on earth you spin working for a nutjob who won't trust anyone to do even the most basic tasks, resulting in your skills lying unused and forgotten. How on earth do I sell that?
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Caissa
Shipmate
# 16710
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Posted
You state what you did in the position. Most of us have had jobs where we felt our skills were under-utilized.
[ 21. January 2015, 13:29: Message edited by: Caissa ]
Posts: 972 | From: Saint John, N.B. | Registered: Oct 2011
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
Assuming that your present boss isn't going to see the CV, would something along the lines of "My present post doesn't stretch my intellectual abilities quite as much as I'd like; I'm looking for new challenges" be of any use?
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
The answer to the first is "Very little" - certainly nothing that will impress anyone interested in recruiting me! The truth is going to have to take a serious hammering.
Piglet, that's pretty much the line I intend to use.
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Caissa
Shipmate
# 16710
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Posted
I would save that sort of line for an interview and find a better way to phrase it.
Posts: 972 | From: Saint John, N.B. | Registered: Oct 2011
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Yangtze
Shipmate
# 4965
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sandemaniac:
If there was a TICTH thread running, I'd have consigned CV rewriting to it a long, long time ago.
I'm freelance. I have to re-write mine on a regular basis, tailoring it to whatever client / piece of work I'm trying to get. It doesn't get any easier the more you do it!
I suspect the only people who are any good at writing CVs are people who have to read hundreds of them and get to see the good from the bad on a regular basis.
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Arthur & Henry Ethical Shirts for Men
organic cotton, fair trade cotton, linen
Sometimes I wonder What's for Afters?
Posts: 2022 | From: the smallest town in England | Registered: Sep 2003
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
I think you could change it from being about your present employer to being about why the job you are applying for will allow you to stretch your capabilities more than your current one.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
Interesting thought, how do I make that work, please?
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
Sit down an list the advantages of the new employer over the current one. Then phrase it in ways that make the new employer sound good rather than the old one.
So if you are not using a skill innovating on equipment, then you could say something on the lines:
quote:
I am very good at getting things to work in ways that are not expected, but in my present lab everything is very routine, I would really like to have something that challenges this aspect of my work and have noticed that this post is looking at bring equipment Y into your lab and using in situation X where it has not been used before.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
But that would go in the covering letter rather than the CV.
You can list your skills in several jobs. Bullet points for current job, previous job and the one before, possibly? If that's within a reasonable time frame. You give the skills you are actually using in this job that are relevant to the job you are applying for. It doesn't have to be detailed, 3/4 bullet points are fine. And the same for the previous couple of jobs, and they might run to 5 or 6 bullet points. If it is obvious you have the relevant skills and used them in a previous role and are not using skills currently that backs up your reason for moving jobs.
Didn't the previous job when you were using skills end as funding dried up? Because you can subtly drop that into the covering letter as an explanation as to why you moved fields
That gets your CV past a computerised or HR scan to check the right skills are there (they don't have to be in the current job) and the personalised covering letter read.
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
Thanks! I'd agree that that's covering letter rather than CV, but good advice nonetheless.
Cheers, everyone, I think that's helping me over this angst hurdle. I've fairly much decided that I've gone as far as I can where I am now, and will have to go outside (somewhat scary as I've only ever worked in academia) if I want to have any sort of career.
At the moment, I think I probably have to just get a CV and covering letter out at at as many things that look interesting as possible, and see what response I get - I need to work out what I stand a reasonable chance of getting interviews for, and I'm not sure how else to do it, especially as so many ads ask for eons of industry experience. Oh, and pull a few strings too...
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
What do you currently do ?
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
If you can persuade them to take you then there are seminars and such aimed at getting PhD students to look for work beyond Academia. I know of Vitae is active in the UK but there are others.
Jengie
[ 24. January 2015, 10:15: Message edited by: Jengie jon ]
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
I love being a development worker, but one of the drawbacks is that you usually have short-term contracts, 2–3 years max.
In the last years I've been reasonably lucky, but my current contract will end in February, and it appears that I'll be entering unemployment, at least for a while.
I have a lot of experience, so I feel that something will come up eventually, but it does make me nervous. I started applying in November, and in December I almost got a job I was very interested in. I made it within the last two candidates, but it was not meant to be.
Prayers are appreciated, and good luck to everyone out there.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688
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Posted
I currently work in a law firm. I very much do not feel passionate about it.
At any rate, I don't think I'm seriously going to do much about finding anything else until after my wedding in April. My current frustration is going to have to stay on hold until then.
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Rent my holiday home in the South of France
Posts: 3696 | Registered: Nov 2005
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
Just an aside, not really job hunt, but this is the sort of thing I'm trying to escape.
A new PhD student (God help her) arrived today, all the way from Saudi. Pointy Haired Boss sends various emails saying he'll be in after 12, phones up 12.30ish to find out what we've achieved since Friday when he asked last, and to generally interfere, then rings off again.
That's it. He doesn't reappear. So the poor lass has trekked thousands of miles, and he can't be arsed to see her.
Christ on a fecking bicycle, that's an awesome example of man management skills. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif) Three years ago, the last student lasted three weeks. I hope her sake this one does the same.
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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JoannaP
Shipmate
# 4493
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Posted
I am researching the idea of setting up as a freelancer. It looks do-able, but I need funds for training and other associated starting stuff and they are in short supply at the moment.
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"Freedom for the pike is death for the minnow." R. H. Tawney (quoted by Isaiah Berlin)
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin
Posts: 1877 | From: England | Registered: May 2003
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Caissa
Shipmate
# 16710
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Posted
What type of freelance work?
Posts: 972 | From: Saint John, N.B. | Registered: Oct 2011
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
I'm 46. I've worked in IT for 20 years and am learning to loathe it more and more.
Anyone with ideas about what a dyed in the wool techy can do for gainful employment that isn't IT? They'd be very welcome; consider it preparing a case for the Parole Board.
Please!
![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif)
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
A quick question: when you apply, do you normally send copies (scans) of all your diplomas and employers' certificates together with your resume and cover letter? Until now, I've only sent those when they specifically ask for it in the job announcement.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688
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Posted
I’ve had a bit of an idea about something I know how to do and actually enjoy doing. One of the few parts of my job I actually find stimulating and worthwhile is translating documents. I have discovered that the Chartered Institute of Linguists has an exam for a recognised Diploma in Translation. You don’t have to follow any courses if you don’t want to, you can just enter yourself for the exam and then turn up and take it (I can take it in Paris at the British Institute).
I’ve missed the deadline for this year but I’ve started working my way through the previous exam papers on their website to maybe take it next year. It’s quite competitive (50% pass rate in the general exam, more like 20% on the specialised ones) but I think I may well have the level for the general one at least, and possibly the specialised one in law and/or literature. This would be for French to English translation.
I think this could be a good way to go. I don’t want to have to go back to doing a lot of studies, but in France they always want you to have bits of paper of you don’t get a look-in, even if you’re very experienced. However, if I have a diploma at the top of my CV, along with all the experience, I think I might be in with a chance.
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Rent my holiday home in the South of France
Posts: 3696 | Registered: Nov 2005
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
Good on you, La Vie! That sounds like a very sensible idea, and could have the advantage that you could do it on a free-lance basis, working from home, or as a little extra earner in conjunction with another job.
Good luck! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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Beenster
Shipmate
# 242
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Posted
Well I'm piping in here, My everso dull work is coming to an end and it's all because I'm too efficient, too good at the job and so on. There isn't a requirement to have me full time and so the job will go part time or I take redundancy. I feel the company have someone else lined up already as I'm being shown how great redundancy is.
So I've started job hunting, rejected from a part time job in a supermarket, I just want to work. I've applied for another job where I think I would be a great great fit - it's all so anxiety making the whole thing.
The whole experience is turning my little world upside down and insecurities run rife. I'm so very tired with the worry and bewilderment.
Posts: 1885 | Registered: May 2001
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Beenster:
I feel the company have someone else lined up already as I'm being shown how great redundancy is.
I think that may be illegal. Check with someone who knows employment law, but I think they're not allowed to employ anyone after a redundancy has been made.
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
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Beenster
Shipmate
# 242
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Posted
Spike you're right. They can't.
But I'm being offered a choice of the role in hours that would suit a working mother, not someone like me who would want the job p/t and another job p/t - or they are offering me redundancy.
So, they are well within the law as I'm being given the choice but being well steered so it won't work. If that makes sense.
I'm not sure if I'm being paranoid tho.
Posts: 1885 | Registered: May 2001
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Palimpsest
Shipmate
# 16772
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Posted
Karl, there are several paths from IT if you want to use your knowledge. There are several places here that have "boot camp" for developers and who are usually looking for teachers. I don't know if there are any equivalents where you are.
I left my last job 18 months ago and am looking for a new one now, which may not happen. One thing I've been trying to sort out is how much the last job was toxic because of its own special faults and how much it's that I don't fit in the industry. I'm hoping it's the former. Have you considered IT for a non-profit or educational institute? That may be worse or simply different enough to be tolerable. If you're already in a non profit hell hole, then perhaps the bright lights of commercial IT might provide a change.
Posts: 2990 | From: Seattle WA. US | Registered: Nov 2011
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
An email in my inbox, from an agency who I know have my CV, this morning, begins "Dear Sandemaniac,
Do you have experience of working with children?"
Well, you have my CV, does it say anywhere on it "experience of working with children"? It doesn't?
Then the answer is no, isn't it! Grrr...
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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daisydaisy
Shipmate
# 12167
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Posted
Last week my voluntary redundancy came into effect and so after a very long time in the world of IT I have the opportunity to look at different ways of working, maybe along the lines of what Charles Handy describes in The Age of Unreason as Portfolio working (several small jobs). While the dust settles I am enjoying being freed from any schedules, and looking at possibilities, and have booked onto a City & Guilds course that should enable me to teach adult education classes with an IT theme - then I will need to find centres that need tutors, which hopefully will happen so that I can balance voluntary work (some with perks like free entry to places I usually pay for) with income generation.
Posts: 3184 | From: southern uk | Registered: Dec 2006
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
Good luck, Daisydaisy, and enjoy your new-found freedom!
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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Beenster
Shipmate
# 242
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Posted
I've got an interview for a cracking job - it's the only cracking job I've seen in the area for a year and it ticks all the boxes. The interview is next Tuesday. I'm so nervous.
Posts: 1885 | Registered: May 2001
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neandergirl
Opposing the thumb
# 8916
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Posted
Fingers crossed for cracking prospects for those looking and stellar interviews for those in the process.
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Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you. Hebrews 13:5 NIV
We come from love, we return to love, and all around is love.
Lord, ease our burdens, give us peace and enable us to do your work. Tree Bee
Posts: 2579 | From: 21218 | Registered: Dec 2004
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
Best of luck, Beenster!
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
I had everything crossed for you, Beenster, until I fell over because I had my legs and eyes crossed.
Good luck!
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
Sandemaniac, may I suggest adding a little more tonic? ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
Oh dear... I resemble that remark! ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif)
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Caissa
Shipmate
# 16710
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Posted
How went the interview?
Posts: 972 | From: Saint John, N.B. | Registered: Oct 2011
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Beenster
Shipmate
# 242
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Posted
Thank you everyone - the interview is on Tuesday so please keep everything crossed until then - sorry to hear about the falling over !!
I've pretty much decided to go off with stress next week, I'm exhausted and I cried and cried in my HR meeting today as I fail to see this state as an opportunity but rather it feels so terminal. HR said I should put myself first, when I mentioned go off with stress, I was advised not to put myself first that much.
Posts: 1885 | Registered: May 2001
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
If your present job's making you as ill as that, then it's definitely time to look for something else.
Things still crossed ... ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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Starbug
Shipmate
# 15917
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
There is an online free course on writing CVS here if it would help anyone - for three weeks, starts 9 February.
Thanks for this. I'm taking voluntary redundancy and will leave my current job in the next couple of weeks, so the timing couldn't be more perfect.
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“Oh the pointing again. They're screwdrivers! What are you going to do? Assemble a cabinet at them?” ― The Day of the Doctor
Posts: 1189 | From: West of the New Forest | Registered: Sep 2010
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Beenster
Shipmate
# 242
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Piglet:
If your present job's making you as ill as that, then it's definitely time to look for something else.
Things still crossed ...
Yup, I will have to anyhow as the chances are it will go to zilch at some point.
I am angry with the company but I'm not being allowed to be angry - I got told off for my anger. So, I am disempowered again.
I have been up since 4am, late to sleep last night but yes, time to go off sick with stress not least I want to be in good shape for my upcoming interview. A few sessions at the gym will help get my mojo back plus a good walk. Strong body, strong mind.
Posts: 1885 | Registered: May 2001
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
If a job application asks me to explain any gaps in my employment history, would I be better saying
a) "at home with children"
or
b) expanding that to explain just why I had such a long time as a "full-time Mum" i.e. that I had recurrent miscarriages, which precluded pursuing a career while we were still "trying"
or
c) saying (truthfully) that I worked as a part-time minimum wage relief playground supervisor / school lunchtime supervisor / creche assistant for several years. (This fitted in as I could accept or decline work as and when it suited me, even though this employment was very patchy and obviously not part of a "career")
[ 12. February 2015, 08:32: Message edited by: North East Quine ]
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
I think C is probably your best option as you were doing "something".* I think anyone who doesn't appreciate these days that women are likely to have career gaps owing to children needs a good slap. I've never had to deal with this, being male, but I suspect it'll be obvious to enough people that you won't be asked anything too searching.
AG
*as if bringing up children wasn't an occupation in itself
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
Thanks. I do have some publications from that time, but they were more "keeping my hand in" than "career" and they were done off my own bat, so not "employment."
When I gave up work, I planned a five year career break, but five years later I was still trying for the baby which was going to complete our family. It was another five years and three pregnancy losses later before it became obvious there wasn't going to be a final baby.
As a result I've got a big gap in my employment history, although I was doing unskilled minimum wage stuff on and off, plus teaching evening classes intermittently. Plus I was on a couple of national committees, including one which involved flying to London four times a year (expenses paid).
But filling in an online pro-forma application gives the impression I wasn't doing anything at all.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Ferijen
Shipmate
# 4719
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Posted
I would merge a) and c). 'During this time, I took a career break to spend time with my children, and took on a variety of part time roles including (x, y, z) in order to work around my family commitments.'
You don't need to explain why you took 10 years, the employers won't need to know the ages of their children.
Posts: 3259 | From: UK | Registered: Jul 2003
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