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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: World Cup 2014: The truly global party
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
As I said above, I would have been equal parts mad and impressed had Chelsea managed to find a way to win the double.
Simeone deserves a lot of credit. Atletico is a selling club rather than a buying club- a lot of the stars who made this run possible will likely be the subject of pursuit by bigger clubs with more money this summer- and having that kind team a few games away from a very improbable double is a remarkable achievement.
Out of curiosity, how many teams have ever been undefeated in an entire Champion's League season? One more does it for Atletico.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
Thank you City!
(Sorry Sioni.)
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
I see that sacking Mr. Moyes doesn't seem to have done Man Ure much good ... ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Thank you City!
(Sorry Sioni.)
Yeah. I think "Bugger" covers most options and we very nearly got an equaliser any number of ways. Still, we're in the Europa Cup, thanks to the changed qualification rules when sides qualifying by place also win cup competitions - and, in a way, we have Man City to thank for that!
Thanks to Ross Barkley's brilliant goal yesterday there's a clamour for him to go to Brazil. He's probably worth a place but why does one goal, admittedly in late in the season against top class opposition, make such a difference? It's a totally disproportionate reaction.
eta: I'm delighted that sacking Moyes has done them no good. Does anyone think Fellaini wants out? I wouldn't be too surprised (or dismayed) to have him back at Goodison, at a substantial discount, especially if Gareth Barry doesn't move permanently.
[ 04. May 2014, 08:43: Message edited by: Sioni Sais ]
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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deano
princess
# 12063
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by piglet:
I see that sacking Mr. Moyes doesn't seem to have done Man Ure much good ...
You enjoy yourselves. After twenty years of hurt it must be nice for you whilst we are going through this phase.
But it is only a phase. There will be another twenty years of hurt for you coming up soon.
£150 milion, Van Gaal, next season is going to be an interesting. For us and for you lot.
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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot
Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006
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deano
princess
# 12063
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Posted
Here's an intersting little game we can play. Let's start a list of which teams are going to be worried by Mr Van Gaal's cheque book between now and the end of September.
I'll start off...
Chelsea
Southampton
Everton
Spurs
PSG
Real Madrid
Barcalona
Juventus
Bayern Munich
Borussia Dortmund
Anyone want to add any more?
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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot
Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
I suspect that the only people who are going to be worried are your mid-table rivals.
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001
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An die Freude
Shipmate
# 14794
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Posted
I think that's a gravely mistaken thought, Deano. You have to remember of those £150 million, 1/4-1/5 will go straight to the players and their salaries. Something tells me a player like Marco Reus has a somewhat higher salary than Danny Welbeck.
Furthermore, you're listing Barcelona, Real Madrid and Bayern Munich in there. Not bloody likely that they'll leave one of the world's best teams, in some of the world's coolest cities, for cold, rainy Manchester and the Europa League. "But we've got such a great reputation!" Yeah, 15 years ago. Now you're a club with a has-been coach and a mainly British squad. Not many of the top people want in on that, frankly. Juventus and PSG are top of their countries and can together with Chelsea and Borussia Dortmund easily match any offer you make to a player, both in promises of titles and of money.
This leaves you buying up the best of Southampton, Tottenham and Everton. Well, save real stars like Bale, who'll go for top-of-the-world clubs. But I've a hard time seeing how that'll give you better material than that that won you the league title a year ago. Just saying.
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"I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable."
Walt Whitman
Formerly JFH
Posts: 851 | From: Proud Socialist Monarchy of Sweden | Registered: May 2009
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An die Freude
Shipmate
# 14794
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Posted
Double-posted to add that Swedish media just reported that representatives of Manchester United will attend a game today to look at 23-year-old left winger David Accam from Swedish club Helsingborg IF. People like this usually end up in Dutch mid-table clubs, not English ones, but if that's how you spend £150 million, that's up to you. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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"I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable."
Walt Whitman
Formerly JFH
Posts: 851 | From: Proud Socialist Monarchy of Sweden | Registered: May 2009
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
Here's an intersting little game we can play. Let's start a list of which teams are going to be worried by Mr Van Gaal's cheque book between now and the end of September.
I'll start off...
Chelsea
Southampton
Everton
Spurs
PSG
Real Madrid
Barcalona
Juventus
Bayern Munich
Borussia Dortmund
Anyone want to add any more?
The team that administers UEFA's Financial Fair Play Rules for a start. That might mean two clubs from one city.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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deano
princess
# 12063
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by JFH:
Furthermore, you're listing Barcelona, Real Madrid and Bayern Munich in there. Not bloody likely that they'll leave one of the world's best teams, in some of the world's coolest cities, for cold, rainy Manchester and the Europa League.
I wonder what the players agents will be telling them though?
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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot
Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006
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An die Freude
Shipmate
# 14794
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Posted
"But the Europa League will be such a perfect follow-up to the Champions League final!"
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"I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable."
Walt Whitman
Formerly JFH
Posts: 851 | From: Proud Socialist Monarchy of Sweden | Registered: May 2009
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Sir Kevin
Ship's Gaffer
# 3492
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
Here's an intersting little game we can play. Let's start a list of which teams are going to be worried by Mr Van Gaal's cheque book between now and the end of September.
I'll start off...
Chelsea
Southampton
Everton
Spurs....
Stop the hemorrhaging of good talent from my side! We should never have let Gareth go. After a fast start in a draw for first, the season was a complete and bloody disaster! (Yes, with real blood!)
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If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Writing is currently my hobby, not yet my profession.
Posts: 30517 | From: White Hart Lane | Registered: Oct 2002
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
quote:
Originally posted by piglet:
I see that sacking Mr. Moyes doesn't seem to have done Man Ure much good.
You enjoy yourselves ... There will be another twenty years of hurt for you coming up soon ...
You can't scare me - I support Ipswich Town and the only way we're likely to be playing Man U. is if they get relegated ... ![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
The Manchester Evening News (apologies, I know that's inaccessible to most Man Utd fans) was reporting that not only will van Gaal have a fat chequebook, he'll also have a '1992 Committee' of Ferguson's old protégés to tell him how to spend it.
Won't that be nice? It'll be just like one of those toxic parishes where the new incumbent gets advised 'The old vicar wouldn't have done it like that', and 'The old vicar would have done it like this.'
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
And, even worse, the Old Vicar will be watching every game from the directors' box!
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001
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South Coast Kevin
Shipmate
# 16130
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
Won't that be nice? It'll be just like one of those toxic parishes where the new incumbent gets advised 'The old vicar wouldn't have done it like that', and 'The old vicar would have done it like this.'
Ha ha, that sounds like a complete disaster! And on the question of star players moving to Man U, IMO they'll only move if they think Man U will quickly get back into the Champions' League (let's see how next season goes...) or if they are mercenaries just following the money
I'm a Southampton fan and I'm not worried about our top players going to Man U. Other big teams, sure, but not really Man U.
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My blog - wondering about Christianity in the 21st century, chess, music, politics and other bits and bobs.
Posts: 3309 | From: The south coast (of England) | Registered: Jan 2011
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Thank you City!
(Sorry Sioni.)
Yeah. I think "Bugger" covers most options
So are you coming up to Huddersfield next season.
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Last ever sig ...
blog
Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
I'm trying so desperately hard to keep my Schadenfreude on ice until the Premiership is completely decided. But good God, it's hard.
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by JFH:
"But the Europa League will be such a perfect follow-up to the Champions League final!"
Actually, it's looking remarkably likely that United won't even qualify for the Europa League. England gets three places in the competition, but as Arsenal have now confirmed qualification for the Champions League the FA Cup's Europa League place will go to Hull City. That means that the other two places will go to the teams finishing 5th and 6th in the league - Everton will definitely be one of those teams, and Spurs need only a point against Villa to be the other (and that's assuming United win both their remaining games!).
Unless England gets one of the Fair Play places and United happen to be the highest-ranked side in the Premiership Fair Play League, United are almost certainly not going to be in Europe at all in 2014/15 ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) .
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Caissa
Shipmate
# 16710
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Posted
My beloved Reds really blew it yesterday. My ice hockey team did the same on Saturday. It wasn't a good sports weekend in the Caissa house.
Posts: 972 | From: Saint John, N.B. | Registered: Oct 2011
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
![[Eek!]](eek.gif) ![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
All I can say is, let's hope this is an Omen that we have become the next AC Milan ...
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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deano
princess
# 12063
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by JFH:
"But the Europa League will be such a perfect follow-up to the Champions League final!"
Actually, it's looking remarkably likely that United won't even qualify for the Europa League. England gets three places in the competition, but as Arsenal have now confirmed qualification for the Champions League the FA Cup's Europa League place will go to Hull City. That means that the other two places will go to the teams finishing 5th and 6th in the league - Everton will definitely be one of those teams, and Spurs need only a point against Villa to be the other (and that's assuming United win both their remaining games!).
Unless England gets one of the Fair Play places and United happen to be the highest-ranked side in the Premiership Fair Play League, United are almost certainly not going to be in Europe at all in 2014/15 .
So we get to rest our squad next season. That will be nice as it will allow us to keep our players at the top of their game... whoever they are!
None of the Utd fans I've spoken to are particularly worried that this will be a long term problem. We can throw money at the problem, which isn't an option available to many teams, and we will do.
It isn't worrying for us, it is exciting. I'm looking forward to the off-season to see who we buy and who we let go.
The first test of whether we can attract good players will be coming up shortly. Then we shall see.
This thread will provide an abundance of good quotes over the next few seasons to ram down the throats of whoever made them.
Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
We can throw money at the problem, which isn't an option available to many teams, and we will do.
Well, you threw over £60 million at this season, and it didn't get you very far!
But such spending is an option for quite a few teams across Europe, and the Madrids, Munichs and Man Citys have Champions League football to offer as well. If a top-quality player is available to buy in the first place, he'll have a choice between big money + Champions League and just big money.
Yes, you can probably go out and raid the Southamptons and Evertons of the world, but then you'll just end up with a team of the same overall ability as the Southamptons and Evertons of the world. And while United have a track record of taking such players and building championship teams with them, that was (a) under Ferguson and (b) while teams still feared going to Old Trafford, and turned up with a "park the bus" mentality. These days, even West Brom and Sunderland are turning up there thinking they'll win!
There is one thing that counts in your favour though - it won't be a World Cup or European Championship year so players may be less desperate to be seen playing Champions League football, and thus may be more willing to take a one-season absence from that tournament if given reasonable assurances that it will indeed only be for one season.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
We can throw money at the problem, which isn't an option available to many teams, and we will do.
That's not the Glaziers' MO though, is it? At least, I'm certainly under the impression that popular wisdom is that they are more keen to take money out of United than to put it in.
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001
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pjl
Shipmate
# 16929
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Posted
Watching the Man City game last night,could not envisage how they could break through an eleven man
double decker bus.
The game West Ham game on Sunday will be another roller coaster ride for us.
Posts: 576 | From: england | Registered: Feb 2012
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
Apart from Liverpool this season, how many teams have ever been genuine title contenders without having qualified even for the Europa Cup? The theory that "we'll play better because we're not in Europe" seems to be distinctly lacking in empirical support.
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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An die Freude
Shipmate
# 14794
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Posted
I suspect you'll have to go back to post-Heysel days. Not sure about it before that. Possibly Nottingham Forest glory days as well, but my history of English football is a bit rusty.
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"I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable."
Walt Whitman
Formerly JFH
Posts: 851 | From: Proud Socialist Monarchy of Sweden | Registered: May 2009
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South Coast Kevin
Shipmate
# 16130
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
Yes, you can probably go out and raid the Southamptons and Evertons of the world, but then you'll just end up with a team of the same overall ability as the Southamptons and Evertons of the world.
Good grief, it's so tempting to make wild claims that Southampton will finish ahead of Man U next season, as long as we keep Lallana, Rodriguez and Shaw! Granted, that's a significant caveat...
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My blog - wondering about Christianity in the 21st century, chess, music, politics and other bits and bobs.
Posts: 3309 | From: The south coast (of England) | Registered: Jan 2011
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by JFH:
I suspect you'll have to go back to post-Heysel days. Not sure about it before that. Possibly Nottingham Forest glory days as well, but my history of English football is a bit rusty.
With the best will in the world, "Nottingham Forest" and "Glory Days" don't go together! Even in their heyday under Brian Clough.
Looking back, it was a pretty dull era for football. English clubs won regularly in Europe, but it was poor compared to the Premier League. Discuss.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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An die Freude
Shipmate
# 14794
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Posted
Nottingham won the First Division in 77-78 after having been promoted the year before, that's what I was aiming at. The year after, they won the European Cup and became one of only two teams to have won it twice in a row, if my memory does not backstab me.
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"I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable."
Walt Whitman
Formerly JFH
Posts: 851 | From: Proud Socialist Monarchy of Sweden | Registered: May 2009
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by JFH:
Nottingham won the First Division in 77-78 after having been promoted the year before, that's what I was aiming at. The year after, they won the European Cup and became one of only two teams to have won it twice in a row, if my memory does not backstab me.
You're memory is right, they were a high-achieving side, and did all that, but these weren't glorious triumphs. Despite a spine of star players Forest always played methodical, pragmatic football, which got higher marks for technical merit than for artistic impression.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
On a different note, anyone got thoughts on Greg Dyke's new plan to save the England team?
I have many, which I won't bore you with right now, but my summary would be that he's asking the wrong questions and coming up with ludicrous answers.
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001
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An die Freude
Shipmate
# 14794
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Despite a spine of star players Forest always played methodical, pragmatic football, which got higher marks for technical merit than for artistic impression.
My memory also claims that's the kind of play Everton had for ten years or so under David Moyes.
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"I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable."
Walt Whitman
Formerly JFH
Posts: 851 | From: Proud Socialist Monarchy of Sweden | Registered: May 2009
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
On a different note, anyone got thoughts on Greg Dyke's new plan to save the England team?
Awful, terrible, and should never even come close to being enacted. We need to be doing more to encourage and enable success at the grass roots of football, not trying to destroy the grass roots so we can replace them with a glorified Premiership Reserve League.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by JFH:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Despite a spine of star players Forest always played methodical, pragmatic football, which got higher marks for technical merit than for artistic impression.
My memory also claims that's the kind of play Everton had for ten years or so under David Moyes.
Good call, but we never had the star players and achieved little.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
On a different note, anyone got thoughts on Greg Dyke's new plan to save the England team?
Awful, terrible, and should never even come close to being enacted. We need to be doing more to encourage and enable success at the grass roots of football, not trying to destroy the grass roots so we can replace them with a glorified Premiership Reserve League.
Everything has some merit, except incorporating reserve teams into the league pyramid. The last thing fringe Premier League players need, especially young ones, is lining up against conference teams, some of whom will take immense pleasure in kicking the kids off the park.
There's nothing to prevent Premier League teams organising a league for their reserve teams. Then again, it's the only stand-out proposal and Dyke's committee had to deliver something novel or he would stand accused of "fiddling round the edges".
Essentially, English football's problem is that we emphasize hard work & fitness without ensuring that the most talented and skilful players get to the top and stay there. The former are necessary, but pointless without talent and skill.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
My view is that Dyke and his commission are asking the wrong question. The League pyramid doesn't exist to funnel players into the England team. It exists because clubs and their supporters want to play in a league. By elevating the needs of the England first team above those of the 92 member clubs they're putting the cart before the horse.
What the FA should concentrate on is developing an environment where clubs (especially those in the lower tiers) aren't constantly in existential financial crisis, and can concentrate on coaching players and developing youngsters for the good of their own team. Not only will footballing quality generally improve, but a larger number of decent English players will be a natural by-product of such an environment.
Secondarily, I think initiatives like the coaching academy at St George's Park can only help, if run properly. That ties in with Sioni's point, I think.
But to ruin more than a hundred years of sporting legacy on the whim of chasing success at a single tournament eight years hence smacks of political expediency rather than genuine thought.
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
I have been told - I'm not sure how reliably - that one obstacle is the sheer physicality of English football, which means that unless a young lad is built like Wayne Rooney it is easy for him to be physically dominated on the pitch. I leave it to better informed shipmates to comment on whether that's true.
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
Yes, that's true. Which is why ideas like a separate Under-23s league are far better than ones that will throw those kids in at the deep end against some very physical lower-league players who can't compete on raw talent but can compete on size and strength.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
They already have a U21 competition which replaced the old reserves league. Teams have to play mostly youngsters, but there are some rules that allow senior players returning from injury to play a certain amount as well.
I'm not too sure what's wrong with that system, to be honest.
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001
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Sir Kevin
Ship's Gaffer
# 3492
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Posted
My Spurs have under-21 sides as well as young women. I believe that they have had some success...
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If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Writing is currently my hobby, not yet my profession.
Posts: 30517 | From: White Hart Lane | Registered: Oct 2002
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
Congrats to City.
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001
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Ad Orientem
Shipmate
# 17574
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Posted
Boooo! Yes, you can buy the Premiership title.
Posts: 2606 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2013
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
Liverpool's defence (by which I mean goalkeeper and four defenders) was the most expensive of all the top four. That suggests to me that success is predicated on more than just expenditure.
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
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South Coast Kevin
Shipmate
# 16130
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Liverpool's defence (by which I mean goalkeeper and four defenders) was the most expensive of all the top four.
Really? Wow... Actually, Johnson for £18million (good grief), Sakho for about the same... Yeah, I see what you mean. ![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif)
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My blog - wondering about Christianity in the 21st century, chess, music, politics and other bits and bobs.
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by South Coast Kevin:
quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Liverpool's defence (by which I mean goalkeeper and four defenders) was the most expensive of all the top four.
Really? Wow... Actually, Johnson for £18million (good grief), Sakho for about the same... Yeah, I see what you mean.
Never mind the price tag, what gives anyone the idea Glen Johnson is any kind of defender?
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An die Freude
Shipmate
# 14794
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Posted
So the cheapest part of most teams was more expensive in one team than that which is currently under investigation by FIFA for financial unfair play. That comparison is more ad hoc than a Mourinho press conference.
Look at the money and origin of the midfielders and attackers, the most expensive players. I don't think Suarez is cheap, but remember that Yaya Touré's salary alone cost more than Blackpool's entire squad a couple of years ago. Add Silva, Agüero, Navas and plenty of other expensive mercenaries. Also, why not include defensive reserves? How does that comparison turn out?
You could bring in statistics to make some specific point of limited value, but I think it's obvious that the difference in development between Liverpool ten years ago and Man C ten years ago still mainly comes down to a couple of Middle Eastern businessmen. As is the case with the Arsenal/Chelsea comparison, of course.
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"I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable."
Walt Whitman
Formerly JFH
Posts: 851 | From: Proud Socialist Monarchy of Sweden | Registered: May 2009
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Never mind the price tag, what gives anyone the idea Glen Johnson is any kind of defender?
There's a reason Chelsea didn't hang onto him. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
And JFH, methinks the lady doth protest too much! The idea that Liverpool don't spend money doesn't stand up to scrutiny - £35 million spent (ludicrously) on a whim for Andy Carroll, £18.5 million for Stuart Downing, £16 million for Jordan Henderson, £22 million for Suarez (although I'm quite happy to concede that this particular transfer turned out to be a bargain), and that's just off the top of my head. Yes, City and Chelsea have both spent more than that, but the claim that Liverpool are operating on a shoe-string transfer policy is just not justifiable. In fact, if it wasn't for the £50 million they got for Torres, their net spend would be enormous as well.
And here's another thing - Liverpool actually aren't currently compliant with UEFA's FFP regulations. That's not a problem just now because they're not playing in any UEFA competitions. But it will be next year. I think it'll be very interesting to see how that one plays out.
But like I said before, spending money doesn't guarantee winning the league so this whole conversation is moot IMO.
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001
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An die Freude
Shipmate
# 14794
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Posted
In the game against West Ham, Man C's bench looked like this:
Joleon Lescott, Gaël Clichy, Fernandino, James Milner, Stevan Jovetic, Alvaro Negredo.
How much money is that?
I'll admit that Liverpool is not Southampton or Everton, clubs known for spending money wisely, but I think you should also need to take into account that neither Stewart Downing nor Andy Carroll are getting much time in the club in Brendan Rodgers's "new project".
Most of all however, you point to single affairs, which again makes it very ad hoc. Amongst Man C's signings this year you find Fernandinho, Jesús Navas, Álvaro Negredo, Stevan Jovetic and Martin Demichelis. I do not have the transfer amounts in my head, but IIRC about 4 of them were valued at >£10 million. The middle age amongst these players is 27.5 - meaning they're bought at the peak of their career rather than as young promising players.
And well, while money won't win you the title, it sure helps not to have to worry about that at all when you're trying to build a team out of nowhere and purchase the best players of the kind you want, no matter if they're on the market or not.
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"I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable."
Walt Whitman
Formerly JFH
Posts: 851 | From: Proud Socialist Monarchy of Sweden | Registered: May 2009
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