homepage
  roll on christmas  
click here to find out more about ship of fools click here to sign up for the ship of fools newsletter click here to support ship of fools
community the mystery worshipper gadgets for god caption competition foolishness features ship stuff
discussion boards live chat cafe avatars frequently-asked questions the ten commandments gallery private boards register for the boards
 
Ship of Fools
Thread closed  Thread closed


Post new thread  
Thread closed  Thread closed
My profile login | | Directory | Search | FAQs | Board home
   - Printer-friendly view Next oldest thread   Next newest thread
» Ship of Fools   » Ship's Locker   » Limbo   » Eccles: Daily Offices Redux (Page 3)

 - Email this page to a friend or enemy.  
Pages in this thread: 1  2  3  4  5  6  ...  22  23  24 
 
Source: (consider it) Thread: Eccles: Daily Offices Redux
Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278

 - Posted      Profile for Oblatus     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by DitzySpike:
What about because the Grail psalms is more interesting poetry with a rhythm structure that makes meanings as well: connecting stressed words and forming tighter parallelism?

The ICEL psalms moved away from the more rigid Grail form. However, the tendency seems to move away from the two-lined pattern of the latin vulgate towards the strophe pattern of the Hebrew.

Oh, stop being so sensible! You're right, of course. That's the difference with the Grail psalter. Interesting, though, that St Gregory's Abbey over here uses the latest Grail version in a two-line configuration. I believe they had to create their own pointed psalter that way. They use a slightly simplified set of modal psalm tones based on the Gregorian ones (not quite so many endings or simple/canticle/solemn versions).
Posts: 3823 | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Ian Climacus

Liturgical Slattern
# 944

 - Posted      Profile for Ian Climacus     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by Divine Office:
My question is is this: can one use an Orthodox Horologion on one's own in the abscence of a priest in the same way as one would use the Western Breviary?

For example, in order to recite Vespers from a Horologion, would you simply recite the psalms and prayers and ignore the detailed rubrics given for the priest?

That is what I do when I use an Eastern Rite Book of the Hours [which, of late, is hardly ever: nor do I use my Western one. I need to get back into this pratice as I have truly noticed the impact of the lack of it].

What happens when we have a Reader's Vespers on Saturday evening [as we currently have a part-time priest], is that the priest's parts are not said. Instead of his blessings, "Through the prayers of our holy Fathers, Lord Jesus Christ our God, have mercy on us and save us." is said. If you are interested, our Deacon put together a Reader's Typica: click here.

quote:
Originally posted by Divine Office:
I think that the Eastern Churches are more inclined to favour the Divine Liturgy used in common than in private; for example, I understand that there is no such thing as a "said" eucharist and that the Liturgy is always sung in full on a Sunday, and that there is never more than one celebration.

Said Eucharists are unknown things, not only in Orthodoxy but in the Oriental Orthodox churches I have visited. There is, in Orthodoxy, a "one Liturgy per parish per Sunday" rule, but, at least in Antioch, this is often not the case: in my archdiocese several English-language Liturgies often take place on Sunday evening.
[though given sundown is the end of the liturgical day, one could perhaps say it is a different day: but the same day/Feast is commemorated so I don't tend to think that is the case]

[ 10. August 2006, 02:43: Message edited by: Ian Climacus ]

Posts: 7800 | From: On the border | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
DitzySpike
Shipmate
# 1540

 - Posted      Profile for DitzySpike   Email DitzySpike   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by Scott Knitter:
Oh, stop being so sensible! You're right, of course.

Not sensible; just agonized over choices [Smile] By the way, you have any idea where I can find the modal but modern melodies of antiphons used at Worth Abbey and St John's Abbey? Will be nice to find A Short Breviary: Benedictine Prayer singable.

What about the LOH Volumes used by the New Camaldoli Hermitage Monastery at Big Sur? I think the music is very usable for a starting-out congregation. Will the brothers oblige if I ask for a set?

Posts: 498 | From: Singapore | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Thurible
Shipmate
# 3206

 - Posted      Profile for Thurible   Email Thurible   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
If one is keeping the Assumption tomorrow as an external solemnity, as well as on Tuesday, does one say First Vespers today?

Thurible

--------------------
"I've been baptised not lobotomised."

Posts: 8049 | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Cosmo
Shipmate
# 117

 - Posted      Profile for Cosmo         Edit/delete post 
Yes. And you repeat the Office on Tuesday.

Cosmo

Posts: 2375 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Magic Wand
Shipmate
# 4227

 - Posted      Profile for Magic Wand   Email Magic Wand   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
If one is keeping the Assumption tomorrow as an external solemnity, as well as on Tuesday, does one say First Vespers today?
I have no idea about the rules currently in force, but back in the dark ages, the External Solemnity applied only to the Mass (one solemn and one low, usually) and not to the Divine Office, which would be of the occurring Sunday. One could generally have Solemn Vespers of the feast, if desired; but those bound to the recitation of the Office would have to recite Sunday's Vespers as well.
Posts: 371 | From: Princeton, NJ | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Divine Office
Shipmate
# 10558

 - Posted      Profile for Divine Office         Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by Divine Office:
My question is is this: can one use an Orthodox Horologion on one's own in the abscence of a priest in the same way as one would use the Western Breviary?

For example, in order to recite Vespers from a Horologion, would you simply recite the psalms and prayers and ignore the detailed rubrics given for the priest?

I've also just obtained a copy of Byzantine Daily Worship by Bishop Raya, which as far as I can tell from my research on the web is one of the most "complete" Eastern Rite prayer manuals ever published.

What do people think about mxing elements of the Eastern and Western rites in daily prayer? For example, would it be very incorrect to use an Eastern litany rather than the intercessions provided if one was reciting Vespers from the Liturgy of the Hours? And what about reciting the Twelve Prayers from Orthros before the LOH Office of Readings if said as the first office of the day? How about sometimes using the Akathist Hymn as an alternative to the Holy Rosary?

Or is it better to keep Eastern and Western usages strictly seperate?

DIVINE OFFICE

Posts: 309 | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278

 - Posted      Profile for Oblatus     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by Divine Office:
Or is it better to keep Eastern and Western usages strictly seperate?

I would think mixing usages would be perfectly fine in one's personal prayer. I'd be tempted to do so if I could figure out the Orthodox materials.
Posts: 3823 | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
DitzySpike
Shipmate
# 1540

 - Posted      Profile for DitzySpike   Email DitzySpike   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Has anyone seen GIA's Worship: Liturgy of the Hours, Leader's Edition? Does it only provide material for Sundays and Festivals?
Posts: 498 | From: Singapore | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267

 - Posted      Profile for Spiffy   Author's homepage   Email Spiffy   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
In my toddling around the Internet, I think I may have found something that no one else has posted (if someone else has already posted it, whoopsieme).

Lutheran Liturgical Prayer Brotherhood -- from the site:

quote:
THE LUTHERAN LITURGICAL PRAYER BROTHERHOOD is a voluntary group of confessional Lutheran Christians which encourages its members to pray, especially making use of the Psalms and Holy Scripture.[snippy] We strive to use the best of western Christian liturgy, prayers, and music—especially the ecclesiastical choral music known commonly as Gregorian Chant—as it has come down to us in our Evangelical Lutheran Church.
I am soooo tempted to send them $40 for their book--- and I still don't have an OSH one! What's the cure for One-More-Breivaryitis?

--------------------
Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
--Night Vale Radio Twitter Account

Posts: 10281 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Choirboy
Shipmate
# 9659

 - Posted      Profile for Choirboy   Email Choirboy   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Bankruptcy. Or Burial.
Posts: 2994 | From: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
John H
Shipmate
# 9599

 - Posted      Profile for John H   Author's homepage   Email John H   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy da WonderSheep:
In my toddling around the Internet, I think I may have found something that no one else has posted (if someone else has already posted it, whoopsieme).

Lutheran Liturgical Prayer Brotherhood -- from the site:

quote:
THE LUTHERAN LITURGICAL PRAYER BROTHERHOOD is a voluntary group of confessional Lutheran Christians which encourages its members to pray, especially making use of the Psalms and Holy Scripture.[snippy] We strive to use the best of western Christian liturgy, prayers, and music—especially the ecclesiastical choral music known commonly as Gregorian Chant—as it has come down to us in our Evangelical Lutheran Church.
I am soooo tempted to send them $40 for their book--- and I still don't have an OSH one! What's the cure for One-More-Breivaryitis?
I've got a copy of the Brotherhood Prayer Book. Interesting, but I've not used it much because (a) it's too big to carry on the train, and (b) I can't read the plainchant very well (and I've been too lazy to make use of the MP3s that are handily provided of most of the service - see the links towards the bottom of the LLPB home page)

The musical settings of matins, vespers and compline are based on those in the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod's daily offices, which can be found online here if anyone wants to check them out.

One other interesting feature which I have been known to make use of myself is the "Evangelical Commemoration of the Blessed Virgin Mary", which can be found on my blog here.

[ 16. August 2006, 15:53: Message edited by: John H ]

--------------------
"If you look upon ham and eggs and lust, you have already committed breakfast in your heart."

Posts: 423 | From: Orpington, Kent, UK | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
J.S. Bach
Shipmate
# 9633

 - Posted      Profile for J.S. Bach   Email J.S. Bach   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Having mostly recited the office for nearly 8 years now, I am interested in adding more chant. From my Internet wanderings, nearly all of the breviaries use plainchant/plainsong notation. (The one exception I know of is Church Publishing's Plainsong Psalter, which technically isn't a breviary.)

My question for this wonderfully knowledgeable group is, How difficult is it to learn plainchant notation? I'm an experienced choral singer and a pretty good sight reader, but plainchant is a different system than I'm used to and is not intuitive for me. Do any of the plainchant breviaries have useful tutorials? If so, which is the most helpful? Or is it preferable to get a separate book to learn plainchant well?

Thanks for your advice.

Blessings,
J.S. Bach

Posts: 104 | From: Near Washington, DC | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
TubaMirum
Shipmate
# 8282

 - Posted      Profile for TubaMirum     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by J.S. Bach:
My question for this wonderfully knowledgeable group is, How difficult is it to learn plainchant notation? I'm an experienced choral singer and a pretty good sight reader, but plainchant is a different system than I'm used to and is not intuitive for me. Do any of the plainchant breviaries have useful tutorials? If so, which is the most helpful? Or is it preferable to get a separate book to learn plainchant well?

Thanks for your advice.

Blessings,
J.S. Bach

If you are a good singer, you will not have trouble learning plainchant. The staff is different in that there are only four lines, rather than five; the two clefs (do and fa) are moveable - they appear on different lines of the staff, depending on the music you're singing - so as to keep the notes as much within the borders of the staff as possible; you'll have to learn to decode the notes and groupings of notes (neumes). But it's not difficult.

Try this page for a quick little chant notation tutorial. This page has links to gifs of the nine Psalm tones and their various endings (which is a whole other topic). Here's a page on Psalmody - sort of a "how-to" for singing Psalms.

The thing to remember, though, is that it's much, much easier to actually sing plainchant than it is to talk or read about it. So I advise going to parishes (or even monastic houses) that do it, so that you can get some actual practice. There are a couple of CDs that might help in this way, too.

I don't know if this will help, but I hope so. Good luck! It's worth learning the notation, I think - I find it easier to read these days for chant than the modern.

Posts: 4719 | From: Right Coast USA | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
TubaMirum
Shipmate
# 8282

 - Posted      Profile for TubaMirum     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
(As well, do check out that Lutheran Liturgical Prayer Brotherhood site. There is a psalmody section there, too, with mp3s of sample Psalms (and the notation, so you can follow along) and you can actually listen to mp3s of all 150 Psalms, too, here.)
Posts: 4719 | From: Right Coast USA | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
Boadicea Trott
Shipmate
# 9621

 - Posted      Profile for Boadicea Trott   Email Boadicea Trott   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
In the psalter of the CCP, there are psalm prayers. Were they written specifically for this volume, or were they taken from another source ?
I have prayed the Office with the CCP book for almost a month, and although I do like it, I find it a bit "lightweight", and have found myself returning to my Monastic Diurnal and Benedictine Daily Prayer.

I can`t fathom out what it is that I find a bit unsatisfying about it - can`t be the modern language because I have developed a real fondness for BDP, and I never ever thought I would find myself saying that about a contemporary language prayer book. [Biased]

--------------------
X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett

Posts: 563 | From: Roaming the World in my imagination..... | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Jenn.
Shipmate
# 5239

 - Posted      Profile for Jenn.   Email Jenn.   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
I guess this might be the right thread to ask this question. You all seem very knowledgable - I don't have a clue what you are on about!

I want to start saying morning prayer, maybe evening prayer, on a regular basis. I'm an anglican. any recommendations? I've seen CW-daily prayer on amazon, and a shorter one. I'm not short on time, but I'd love to know what you'd recommend

Posts: 2282 | From: England | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
jlg

What is this place?
Why am I here?
# 98

 - Posted      Profile for jlg   Email jlg   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Take a look at Getting started with the Breviary (currently living down in the Eccles cellars on page 6). Or mix yourself a nice drink, get comfortable, and head to Limbo, where you will find the first 21 pages of the Daily Offices thread (of which this thread is a continuation). If you poke around enough, you'll find a fair amount of advice for beginners and discussions of the various books available, along with the esoteric and highly technical bits.

Enjoy!

[ETA, clarification about what "this thread" was referring to.]

[ 23. August 2006, 00:31: Message edited by: jlg ]

Posts: 17391 | From: Just a Town, New Hampshire, USA | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Angloid
Shipmate
# 159

 - Posted      Profile for Angloid     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Common Worship Daily Prayer is pretty good. There are notes at the front explaining how the various offices might be used. Traditionally (following the BCP) anglicans might expect to use Morning and Evening Prayer daily, but with the pressured and unpredictable lifestyle of many of us, it often makes more sense to saying one office a day properly. This could be MP, EP, Prayer During the Day or Night Prayer (Compline). If you were aiming to emulate a monastic community (and I'm not being sarcastic, many lay-people have prayer lives that put the 'professionals' to shame) you would use all of them.

The only snag I find with the official Daily Prayer book is that you need to buy (or print out) the lectionary table - produced each year - that gives the scripture readings and psalms for each day. They are not listed in the book itself. Also you will need a Bible, which presumably you already have, but need to carry it around if you are not always in the same place to say the office. You could simply use the short readings which are printed (in the order for Prayer During the Day) but that rather restricts the diet of scripture.

For ease of use (if you are happy just to use the short readings) it would be better to get the shorter edition of Celebrating Common Prayer (based on the Franciscan office, and the basis for CWDP).

Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
TubaMirum
Shipmate
# 8282

 - Posted      Profile for TubaMirum     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Also, here's an online version of "Daily Prayer" at the C of E website.
Posts: 4719 | From: Right Coast USA | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
Dee.
Ship's Theological Acrobat
# 5681

 - Posted      Profile for Dee.   Email Dee.   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Hello all,

I am a wee bit lost at present, which week are we in for the 4 week psalter? [Hot and Hormonal]

--------------------
Jesus - nice bloke, bit religious

Posts: 2679 | From: Under Downunder | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Adam.

Like as the
# 4991

 - Posted      Profile for Adam.   Author's homepage   Email Adam.   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
4. I hope.

--------------------
Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog

Posts: 8164 | From: Notre Dame, IN | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged
Dee.
Ship's Theological Acrobat
# 5681

 - Posted      Profile for Dee.   Email Dee.   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Ooh,

I am not lost at all [Smile]

Great news

D

--------------------
Jesus - nice bloke, bit religious

Posts: 2679 | From: Under Downunder | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278

 - Posted      Profile for Oblatus     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Here's a handy calendar that shows which week of the Liturgy of the Hours/Divine Office psalter is in effect.
Posts: 3823 | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
John H
Shipmate
# 9599

 - Posted      Profile for John H   Author's homepage   Email John H   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
I use Celebrating Daily Prayer (CDP), which is both a simplified version of Common Worship:Daily Prayer (CW:DP) and an updated version of the shorter Celebrating Common Prayer referred to above.

I strongly recommend CDP as the place to start rather than CW:DP, because it provides everything for each office in the same place. For CW:DP you need to flick to the back for the psalms, and even then you need a separate lectionary to tell you which psalm applies that day. CDP has the relevant psalms printed within each office, on a seven-week cycle.

In terms of my usage, I mainly use morning prayer and night prayer.

For more on both CDP and CW:DP, please see this post on my blog which compares the two books.

--------------------
"If you look upon ham and eggs and lust, you have already committed breakfast in your heart."

Posts: 423 | From: Orpington, Kent, UK | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Ian Climacus

Liturgical Slattern
# 944

 - Posted      Profile for Ian Climacus     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Apologies if this was covered in the previous incarnation of this thread; there was a lot in there and I can't remember.

Due no-doubt to my public [state for you in the UK] skool edukashion [Biased] , I came across "kine" or "froward" and had no idea what they meant in today's Canticle: Song of Moses [Deut 32:1-43].

So I went to my 'modern' English Bible, and found that the verses in the MD did not at all correspond to those in my Bible. And in fact, despite it saying Deut 32:1-43, there are actually 58 'verses' marked in the MD. I'm assuming this has to do with some antiphon or similar chanting? Yes? No? Is there a reason verses have been split into more than one 'number'? Has it always been thus?

Curiousity. Thanks,
Ian.

[ 25. August 2006, 22:01: Message edited by: Ian Climacus ]

Posts: 7800 | From: On the border | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278

 - Posted      Profile for Oblatus     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by Ian Climacus:
Due no-doubt to my public [state for you in the UK] skool edukashion [Biased] , I came across "kine" or "froward" and had no idea what they meant in today's Canticle: Song of Moses [Deut 32:1-43].

So I went to my 'modern' English Bible, and found that the verses in the MD did not at all correspond to those in my Bible. And in fact, despite it saying Deut 32:1-43, there are actually 58 'verses' marked in the MD. I'm assuming this has to do with some antiphon or similar chanting? Yes? No? Is there a reason verses have been split into more than one 'number'? Has it always been thus?

Well spotted! Yes, I would think the 43 Bible verses have been re-divided into 58 verses for more even recitation or chanting.

Kine is an archaic word for cows; froward means adverse or disobedient, naughty. You can be "toward" or "froward." But that's enough to-ing and fro-ing for now.

Posts: 3823 | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
TubaMirum
Shipmate
# 8282

 - Posted      Profile for TubaMirum     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
I wanted to leave another link for J.S. Bach (and that is a really wonderful phrase to be able to type, I must say!).

In my wanderings around the web, I found "A Gregorian Chant Master Class," a booklet/CD combination that sounds as if it might be good. I don't know anything about it first-hand, but the reviews seem to be good.

You'll have to print out an order form and write away for it; the sellers are Benedictine nuns at an abbey in the U.S., and there isn't any way to order it online.

Posts: 4719 | From: Right Coast USA | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
J.S. Bach
Shipmate
# 9633

 - Posted      Profile for J.S. Bach   Email J.S. Bach   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Thank you, TubaMirum, for the excellent chant references. I'm slowly getting a better feel for how chant notation works but need to carve out a block of time to fiddle on a keyboard. Of course, I also need to decide which noted breviary to buy. [Smile] I'm considering the Saint Helena Breviary: Monastic Edition, but it looks absolutely huge from the photos. Does anyone know of another noted breviary using modern English, either already published or in the works?

Blessings,
J.S. Bach

Posts: 104 | From: Near Washington, DC | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
TubaMirum
Shipmate
# 8282

 - Posted      Profile for TubaMirum     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
The only thing I know of is the Monastic Diurnal Noted. But I'm sure it's not in modern English.

I'm not one of the Breviary mavens around here, so I really can't help very much on this, sorry. But I'm sure somebody else will be able to!

[Biased]

Posts: 4719 | From: Right Coast USA | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
TubaMirum
Shipmate
# 8282

 - Posted      Profile for TubaMirum     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Here's something sort of interesting, though, which does seem to be in modern language. And which also has at least some music included with it, it says: The Monastic Diurnal Revised, from the Community of St. Mary in New York.

There's a phone # there, anyway, so I suppose you could always call and ask....

Posts: 4719 | From: Right Coast USA | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278

 - Posted      Profile for Oblatus     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by TubaMirum:
Here's something sort of interesting, though, which does seem to be in modern language. And which also has at least some music included with it, it says: The Monastic Diurnal Revised, from the Community of St. Mary in New York.

There's a phone # there, anyway, so I suppose you could always call and ask....

I have a copy of the chant book that goes with the MDR. I've written before to ask whether they might publish the chant volume, and they said if there's enough interest in it. I said I was expressing my interest. I inquired later, and they were in the process of moving from Peekskill to Greenwich, NY, and I got a slightly snippy reply that "I'm not going to push the nuns to get the chant book project published while we're in the process of moving." They've long since moved, but I don't think the chant book is any more of a priority. Let us know if you find out anything new!

But once you've got the MDR and its chant volume, you'll have at least as much bulk at the OSH breviary, and the OSH volume is at least one volume.

Posts: 3823 | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Boadicea Trott
Shipmate
# 9621

 - Posted      Profile for Boadicea Trott   Email Boadicea Trott   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Time to bump up this thread !

I`ve only been away since Saturday and it has slipped to page 2 [Eek!]

On holiday we visited the monastery island at Caldey, and in their shop they have a book, written by one of the monks, which contains the Psalms re-written in haiku form, which I thought was novel..............

Posts: 563 | From: Roaming the World in my imagination..... | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804

 - Posted      Profile for Olaf     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by Boadicea Trott:
Time to bump up this thread !

I`ve only been away since Saturday and it has slipped to page 2 [Eek!]

On holiday we visited the monastery island at Caldey, and in their shop they have a book, written by one of the monks, which contains the Psalms re-written in haiku form, which I thought was novel..............

By any chance, do you know if the monks ever use this book as their Psalter during the offices? I suppose it would have to be read by a lector.
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged
jlg

What is this place?
Why am I here?
# 98

 - Posted      Profile for jlg   Email jlg   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by Boadicea Trott:
.... a book, written by one of the monks, which contains the Psalms re-written in haiku form, ....

Shades of Dame Veronica from In This House of Brede.
Posts: 17391 | From: Just a Town, New Hampshire, USA | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Patrick
Shipmate
# 305

 - Posted      Profile for Patrick   Email Patrick   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Divine Office is correct when he describes Archbishop Raya's Byzantine Daily Worship as the best vade mecum resource for the recitation of the Orthodox Office. Yet BDW has almost no texts for the variable elements of Matins (even for feasts),little even for weekday Vespers and no provision at all for the Midnight Office, which has almost no variable features. That being said, BDW gives everything you would need for the daily praying of the Little Hours and Compline. The New Skete Book of Hours provides some daily material, even for Matins, but in a highly idiosyncratic fashion. The Uniate Sisters of St. Basil the Great in Uniontown Pennsylvania have a series of affordable books (Vespers, Matins, Triodion, Pentecostarion and Festal Matins) that give a very ample supply of variable material, more than adequate for the layman, especially if, as I think warranted, the Octoechos is emphasized, as opposed to the minor feasts of the Menaion. A useful guide to navigating the complexities of the Byzantine Office is the Order of Divine Services according to the Use of the Russian Orthodox Church, published by the St. John of Kronstadt Press, Liberty, Tennesee.
Posts: 109 | From: Fordham University, Bronx, N.Y. U.S.A. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267

 - Posted      Profile for Spiffy   Author's homepage   Email Spiffy   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Happy birthday to me!
Happy birthday to me!
I got a St. Helena Breviary,
Happy birthday to me!
[Big Grin]

--------------------
Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
--Night Vale Radio Twitter Account

Posts: 10281 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
DitzySpike
Shipmate
# 1540

 - Posted      Profile for DitzySpike   Email DitzySpike   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy da WonderSheep:
Happy birthday to me!
Happy birthday to me!
I got a St. Helena Breviary,
Happy birthday to me!
[Big Grin]

And many happy returns [Smile]
Posts: 498 | From: Singapore | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Boadicea Trott
Shipmate
# 9621

 - Posted      Profile for Boadicea Trott   Email Boadicea Trott   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy da WonderSheep:
Happy birthday to me!
Happy birthday to me!
I got a St. Helena Breviary,
Happy birthday to me!
[Big Grin]

Happy Birthday and Happy Praying with the new Breviary ! [Big Grin]
Posts: 563 | From: Roaming the World in my imagination..... | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Divine Office
Shipmate
# 10558

 - Posted      Profile for Divine Office         Edit/delete post 
I've just managed to procure a copy of A Monastic Breviary produced by the Order of the Holy Cross in ECUSA in 1976. Having looked through it briefly, it seems a very interesting book; it is not unlike Howard Galley's Prayer Book Office, and even has some items which the latter does not, including printed Office Hymns and the Marian Antiphons.

This is another liturgical book which would be well worth reprinting; I believe the last reprint was in 1997. I suppose some religious communities within ECUSA would be more likely to use the current St Helena Breviary now, though.

As a matter of interest, does anyone, such as Scott, know whether A Monastic Breviary is currently still used by any communities within ECUSA or elsewhere?

I think I will use the book for Compline from now on, with the Latin Liturgia Horarum for Saturdays and Sundays.

DIVINE OFFICE

Posts: 309 | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
DitzySpike
Shipmate
# 1540

 - Posted      Profile for DitzySpike   Email DitzySpike   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
The Monastic Breviary is still used by the Order of the Holy Cross houses in New York and in South Africa. The other houses in Santa Barbara and (I think) Bay Area shares the Daily Office liturgy with the New Camaldoli Congregation in Big Sur.
Posts: 498 | From: Singapore | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278

 - Posted      Profile for Oblatus     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by DitzySpike:
The Monastic Breviary is still used by the Order of the Holy Cross houses in New York and in South Africa. The other houses in Santa Barbara and (I think) Bay Area shares the Daily Office liturgy with the New Camaldoli Congregation in Big Sur.

This community uses A Monastic Breviary (OHC) as its official office book but is working on compiling its own as well:

http://www.holythoughts.org/

(Community of St Luke - Benedictine)

Posts: 3823 | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Divine Office
Shipmate
# 10558

 - Posted      Profile for Divine Office         Edit/delete post 
Scott Knitter wrote:-

quote:
This community uses A Monastic Breviary (OHC) as its official office book but is working on compiling its own as well:

http://www.holythoughts.org/

(Community of St Luke - Benedictine)

This community's project to produce a new office book sounds very interesting. Hopefully it will be available for purchase when it is eventually printed. I note that they intend to use the revised version of the Grail psalter, as does Benedictine Daily Prayer.

Their chapel is also very nice, as is a Brother's personal prayer corner in his room which is pictured in one of the other newsletters.


DIVINE OFFICE

Posts: 309 | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278

 - Posted      Profile for Oblatus     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by Divine Office:
This community's project to produce a new office book sounds very interesting. Hopefully it will be available for purchase when it is eventually printed. I note that they intend to use the revised version of the Grail psalter, as does Benedictine Daily Prayer.

Saint Meinrad Archabbey's oblate director has announced to oblates that we'll be getting a new office book with a four-week psalter. Wonder whether that will use the same psalter distribution as the monks use. In any case, it'll be much better, I'm sure, than our one-week bare-bones office in the oblate manual. Hope it'll be available for sale; I'll update the group about it.

Glad to have something to bump this thread about. [Yipee]

Posts: 3823 | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596

 - Posted      Profile for Knopwood   Email Knopwood   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by Divine Office:
It is also less bulky than, for example, The Anglican Breviary.

Yes, about that (I asked this on Via Media, and got some help, but also further confusion):

What are people's thoughts on the Anglican Breviary? It's a considerable investment and involves asking the nice people at the Anglican Book Centre to make a special order, and I'd like to be sure. Currently, I use the BCP Canada 1959.

Posts: 6806 | From: Tio'tia:ke | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged
Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278

 - Posted      Profile for Oblatus     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by liturgyqueen:
quote:
Originally posted by Divine Office:
It is also less bulky than, for example, The Anglican Breviary.

Yes, about that (I asked this on Via Media, and got some help, but also further confusion):

What are people's thoughts on the Anglican Breviary? It's a considerable investment and involves asking the nice people at the Anglican Book Centre to make a special order, and I'd like to be sure. Currently, I use the BCP Canada 1959.

I'm very glad I have an Anglican Breviary (two, actually: one to use and one to keep nice and eventually use), but I can't quite commit myself to daily praying of its office. It takes a lot of figuring out (although there's lots of online help for that) and takes a lot of time to pray. It also uses an old calendar, and I've decided I can commit only to praying according to the current calendar. Gotta have some criteria for narrowing the choices.

That said, I should also note that it is marvelous on a relaxing day off, with no time pressures, to pull out the Anglican Breviary and immerse oneself in praying the full Matins and Lauds. As a special offering to God and a time of enjoyment of a beautiful book.

Posts: 3823 | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Divine Office
Shipmate
# 10558

 - Posted      Profile for Divine Office         Edit/delete post 
Scott Knitter wrote:-

quote:
I should also note that it is marvelous on a relaxing day off, with no time pressures, to pull out the Anglican Breviary and immerse oneself in praying the full Matins and Lauds. As a special offering to God and a time of enjoyment of a beautiful book.

I couldn't have put it better myself!!!

DIVINE OFFICE

Posts: 309 | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Creature of Salt
Shipmate
# 11610

 - Posted      Profile for Creature of Salt     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
I would also regard the Anglican Breviary as indispensable for the votive offices (e.g., the Office of the Dead) and the traditional offices of Holy Week, including Tenebrae. One could, of course, use a Roman Breviary with an English gloss for the purpose, but the language would not be the same.

My Anglican Breviary got more regular use when I had an long train commute, but it's still a treasure to pick up when the spirit moves.

Posts: 156 | From: USA | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged
Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278

 - Posted      Profile for Oblatus     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
I see from p. 8 of this newsletter that the Community of St Luke - Benedictine (based in Iowa) is developing its own office book using the Grail Psalter. It will replace the Order of the Holy Cross' A Monastic Breviary as the CSL-B's official breviary. One reason given is that the OHC book, which is an expansion of the 1979 Book of Common Prayer (USA) office, is too "Augustinian" and not Benedictine enough.

My question: What makes an office Augustinian or Benedictine? Or Franciscan, for that matter? [Confused]

Posts: 3823 | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Mockingbird

Mimus polyglottos navis
# 5818

 - Posted      Profile for Mockingbird   Author's homepage   Email Mockingbird   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Isn't the Franciscan rite identical with the secular rite ? lauds beginning with psalms 93 and 100 for example--while the monastic rite is a separate, somewhat more rational construct ?

--------------------
Forþon we sealon efestan þas Easterlican þing to asmeagenne and to gehealdanne, þaet we magon cuman to þam Easterlican daege, þe aa byð, mid fullum glaedscipe and wynsumnysse and ecere blisse.

Posts: 1443 | From: Between Broken Bow and Black Mesa | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged



Pages in this thread: 1  2  3  4  5  6  ...  22  23  24 
 
Post new thread  
Thread closed  Thread closed
Open thread   Feature thread   Move thread   Delete thread Next oldest thread   Next newest thread
 - Printer-friendly view
Go to:

Contact us | Ship of Fools | Privacy statement

© Ship of Fools 2016

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.5.0

 
follow ship of fools on twitter
buy your ship of fools postcards
sip of fools mugs from your favourite nautical website
 
 
  ship of fools